MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE HEALTH, SOCIAL SERVICES AND PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE IN ROOM 135, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS AT 2.00 PM ON WEDNESDAY, 8 NOVEMBER 2000

1. Minutes of the Last Meeting
2. Matters Arising
3. Subordinate legislation
4. Health and Personal Social Services Bill (NIA Bill 3/00)
Committee Stage
5. AOB
6. Date and Time of Next Meeting

Present: Dr J Hendron (Chairman)
Mr P Berry
Rev. R Coulter
Mr T Gallagher (Deputy Chairman)
Mr J Kelly
Mr A McFarland
Ms M McWilliams
Ms S Ramsey

Apologies: Ms C Hanna
Mrs I Robinson

In Attendance: Mr G Martin Mr D Harkin
Mrs V Artt Mrs K McFerran
Mr T Moore

Dr Hendron took the Chair at 2.07pm.

Private Session

1. Minutes of the Last Meeting

The minutes of the last meeting were agreed.

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2. Matters Arising

1. The Committee noted the Minister's written response to the Chairman's letter following the Committee meeting of 25 October reiterating her intention, and that of her Department, to build an effective and co-operative relationship with the Committee.

2. The Clerk to the Finance and Personnel Committee has written to the Departmental Committees inviting reports on their respective Departmental Budget proposals. He has advised that, due to time constraints, that Committee's overall response to the Assembly will not include individual comments raised by Committees' in relation to their identified priorities.

Agreed: The Clerk will write to advise the Finance and Personnel Committee that the Committee will not be in a position to report on the Departmental Budget proposals in advance of the Assembly debate on 13 November, as it is still in discussions with Departmental Officials.

3. The Department has provided the additional Budget information requested at the last Committee meeting, which has been copied to members.

Agreed: The Committee will take up the offer by the Permanent Secretary and Senior Departmental Officials to make a presentation on the financial planning and monitoring processes applied in overseeing health and social services. The Clerk will make the necessary arrangements.

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3. Subordinate Legislation

Agreed: The Committee was content with the Department's proposals outlined for Statutory Rules in respect of the following: General Dental Services (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001; Travelling Expenses and Remission of Charges (Amendment No.2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000; Health and Personal Social Services (Optical Charges and Payments) (Amendment No.2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000.

Public Session

4. Health and Personal Social Services Bill (NIA Bill 3/00): Committee Stage

Part I - Clauses 1 to 22

Panel Members: Mr Paul Martin, Assistant Chief Inspector, SSI
Ms Maire McMahon, Inspector, SSI
Ms Pat McAuley, on secondment from CCETSW
Mr Robin McCrory, Legislation Branch

The Chairman welcomed the panel to the meeting at 2.15 pm, after which Mr Martin gave a briefing on the rationale behind Part I (Clauses 1 to 22) of the Bill. This was followed by the Committee's Clause by Clause deliberations on Part I of the Bill. The entire proceedings are recorded in verbatim transcripts of evidence.

The Committee deliberated on the Health and Personal Social Services Bill:

Resolved:

That Clauses 1 to 19 and Schedule 1 stand part of the Bill.

The Committee sought further clarification on Clauses 2 and 18 as follows:

 

• In relation to Clause 2, the Department will inform the Committee about the result of its discussions with the NIO (given its non-devolved status) on the issue of the registration of social care workers deployed within the criminal justice settings.

• As a follow-up to Clause 18 Mr Martin offered to provide further information on the overall budgets for the introduction and running of the Council. He will also provide the Committee with an account of the Department's consultation procedure with NIPSA in relation to Part I of the Bill, and confirm that registration as a social care worker does not preclude a person from being a member of a Trade Union organisation.

That further consideration of Clause 20 be deferred in order to give the Department time to re-examine Clause 20 (3) (e), which excludes certain establishments as children's homes", with a view to closing a potential loophole in the legislation.

The Committee sought further clarification on Clause 20 as follows:

 

• In relation to Clause 20 the Clerk will write to the DoE to obtain clarification on its definition of "residential care homes" for planning purposes.

That Clause 21 stands part of the Bill.

That Clause 22 (which deals with interpretations) be reconsidered at a later date when the Department provides the definition of "school" as laid out in the Education and Libraries (Northern Ireland) Order 1986.

In the context of Clause 22 the Department will further advise the Committee of the result of its liaison with the NIO in relation to the inconsistency between the definition of a "child" under the Bill, which is a person under 18, and that of the Juvenile Justice Order, which defines a "child" as a person under 17.

The Chairman thanked the Officials for their very helpful input, and they left the meeting at 3.57 pm.

Ms McWilliams left the meeting at 4.01 pm.

Part II - Clauses 23 to 38

Panel Members: Mr Andrew Hamilton, Director of Finance
Mr Stephen Popplestone, Finance Official
Mr Robin McCrory, Legislation Branch

The Chairman welcomed the panel to the meeting at 4.04pm, after which Mr Hamilton gave a brief introduction to Part II of the Bill. This was followed by the Committee's Clause by Clause consideration of Part II of the Bill. The entire proceedings are recorded in verbatim transcripts of evidence.

Resolved:

That Clauses 23 to 36 stand part of the Bill.

That Clause 37 be reconsidered after the Department provides a full definition of "owner" within the meaning given in Article 2 (2) of the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland) Order 1995. This was a concern raised in relation to motor insurance liability, particularly in the context of authorised drivers and company cars. The Departmental Officials also agreed to consider the applicability of this Clause to a road-racing situation.

That Clause 38 stands part of the Bill.

The Chairman thanked the Officials for their very helpful input, and they left the meeting at 4.36 pm.

Agreed: The Clerk will draft a motion for the Chairman's signature for an extension to the Committee Stage of the Bill until 28 February 2001.

Private Session

5. AOB

1. Agreed: The Committee will hold an additional meeting next week on Tuesday, 14 November to begin its deliberations on the draft report on the Inquiry into Residential and Secure Accommodation for Children, which was issued to members at the meeting. This meeting will be held in closed session. The Clerk advised of the need to schedule other additional meetings in order to meet the provisional target date of 12 December 2000 for a debate in the Assembly.

2. Agreed: The Chairman will raise at the next meeting of the Statutory Committees' Chairpersons' Liaison Group the following two points:





• the matter of the template font size currently used for the printing of Assembly Committee Reports (10.5), which members viewed as being too small; and




• conscious of the need for open and transparent government, agreement on the best method of publishing the Assembly's business, particularly with regard to the progression of the legislative process.




3. The Committee was issued with a revised draft forward programme of work highlighting the pressures over the next three months.

4. Agreed: In view of its current workload, the Committee is content for the Finance and Personnel Committee to continue to take forward the Committee Stage of the Family Law Bill. However, given the relatedness of the Bill to health and social services matters, members would welcome the opportunity to examine this issue and report to the Finance and Personnel Committee at the relevant time.

5. Agreed: The Clerk will make arrangements for the Chest, Heart and Stroke Association to undertake a related health assessment of Committee members.

6. The Committee noted the 1999/2000 Annual Report of Lisburn Primary Care Commissioning Pilot.

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6. Date and Time of Next Meeting

The Committee will meet next at 2.00 pm on Tuesday, 14 November 2000 in Room 135, Parliament Buildings.

The meeting ended at 4.55 pm.

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DR J HENDRON
Committee Chairman