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MINUTES
OF EVIDENCE MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Tuesday 5 February 2002 Members present: Mr
E ONeill (Acting Chairperson) Witnesses: Ms S McNamee
) 1. The Acting Chairperson: Good afternoon,
you are very welcome.
If you would make a short presentation, Members will then ask some questions. 2. Mr Mackle: I am Liam Mackle from the Children's Law
Centre. Alongside me are Sandra McNamee from the Children's Law Centre and Carragh
McAreavy, a student on placement who has come along for the experience. I have
a written submission that I will go through and then hand copies to Members. 3. The
Children's Law Centre was established in September 1997. It is a charity employing
10 staff, and exists to help children, young people, their parents, and professionals
work with and understand the laws that affect children. The centre
complements existing services provided by the voluntary, community, statutory
and legal sectors. Facilitating training, and working in partnerships with other
agencies commit the centre to realising children's rights. We provide a comprehensive
and accessible advice and information service on children's rights and
the law, as it relates to children and young people. 4. In
the year from April 2000 to March 2001 some 12,694 households presented as homeless
to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. Northern Ireland experiences the
highest ratio of homeless households of any other region in the United Kingdom. The
equality dimension of the recent summary report of the Homelessness Strategy
and Services review, produced by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive in September
2001, states that 1% of those households presenting as homeless are 16-and 17-year-olds. In 2001 the Children's
Law Centre's advice service responded to 40 queries in relation to leaving home,
housing and homelessness, representing some 3·9% of issues raised by our clients.
In our experience, a homeless person aged 16 or 17 will experience difficulty
in being assessed as homeless. It would not be unusual for a young person
to be sent from their local district housing office to their local social services
centre and back again without being assessed. 5. The
Children's Law Centre contends that the figure presented by the Housing Executive is not reflective
of the actual extent of homelessness among 16-and 17-year-olds. The Simon Community
Northern Ireland estimates that of the 2,195 young people who were presented
as homeless in the year 2000, some 20% were aged 16 to 18. It is our view that
it would not be an exaggeration to put the number of 16-and 17-year-olds
who would experience
homelessness each year somewhere between 500 and 1,000. 6. At
present, anyone over the age of 16 is entitled to present himself or herself as homeless to the
Northern Ireland Housing Executive, and it has a duty to assess that
person and provide a written decision on his or her housing status. People who
present themselves and are assessed as being either homeless or threatened with
homelessness, unintentionally homeless, or in priority need are classed as full-duty-applicants.
The Housing Executive is under duty to provide accommodation to those applicants,
and if no permanent accommodation is available, they may be placed in temporary
accommodation. The Housing Executive is also under a duty to temporarily house those people who present as homeless while
investigations are carried out. 7. In
order to be considered a priority need, a young person aged 16 or 17 must fit in one of the six
categories - they must be: pregnant; have dependent child or children;
be at risk of sexual or financial exploitation; be vulnerable as a result of
a mental or physical disability or any other special reason; be subject to,
or at risk of, violence, or be homeless as a result of an emergency, such as
a fire, flood or other disaster. It is our experience that 16-or 17-year-olds
who are not pregnant,
or a parent, are not considered to be a priority need unless suffering
from a disability. Therefore, the Housing Executive is under no duty to provide
accommodation for most 16-or
17-year-olds that present as homeless and are properly assessed. It is
only under a duty to place applicants, who are not assessed as full-duty-applicants, on
the general waiting list and provide information about other accommodation
providers. 8. Article 18(1)(a) of the Children
(Northern Ireland) Order 1995 places a duty on each health and social
services trust "to safeguard and promote the welfare of children
within its area who are in need". 9. Article
21(3) states that "Every authority or trust shall provide accommodation
for any child in need within its area who has reached the age of 16 and whose
welfare the authority considers is likely to be seriously prejudiced if it does
not provide him with accommodation". 10. At
present, Northern Ireland does not have a framework for the assessment of children
in need as exists in England and Wales. As a result, whether a 16-or 17-year-old,
who presents as homeless to the local social services office, is assessed as a child
in need and
accommodated by, or on behalf of, a trust is largely determined by which
trust area he or she lives in. Some trusts, such as the South and East Belfast
Health and Social
Services Trust, have agreed protocols with the local Housing Executive
office for 16 and 17-year-olds. Any 16-or 17-year-old who presents as homeless
in the south and east Belfast area is automatically referred to social services who will
assess them and almost certainly class them as a child in need. If all
trusts were to enter into
an agreed protocol with their local Housing Executive, it would be an enormous step
forward. If such protocols are agreed, it is important that all staff
are familiar with the steps to be taken when 16-and 17-year-olds present themselves
as homeless to either agency. 11. Whether accommodation is
provided, or assistance is given to obtain accommodation, will depend
on the needs of the child as identified during the assessment. As with other provisions
in the Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995, the promotion of the child's welfare should
be the paramount
consideration. The wishes and feelings of the child in relation to the provision of accommodation
should be given due consideration. It may be that the assessment process will show
that other options, such as family reconciliation and family support, would be more
appropriate for an individual child. It is the view of the Children's Law Centre that
a homeless 16-or 17-year-old, who remains homeless and unable to avail
of family support
after assessment, should be classed as a child in need by social services.
Unfortunately, it is our experience that that is not always the case. 12. Homelessness
among young people is further compounded by the lack of appropriate housing options. Temporary
accommodation in hostels that cater for all age ranges would not be an appropriate
placement for vulnerable 16-and 17-year-olds. Health and social services trusts
and the Housing Executive often use bed and breakfast accommodation, and while
useful in a crisis, it would not be appropriate for more than a few days. There
is a need for the provision of more supported housing options for young people
aged 16 and 17. That type of accommodation would provide a range of services aimed at
assisting the young person's preparation for adulthood and independent living. 13. The
range of services could include advice and assistance in such areas as benefits and housing options,
training and education, mentoring and peer education programmes, finding employment
and finances. The Children's Law Centre has identified several schemes currently
operating in Northern Ireland offering the type of accommodation that should
be more widely available. In south Belfast, practitioners and those who have
used the service have praised the Mulholland House aftercare project. The Foyer
Project is currently operating in several locations across Northern Ireland,
and the Mount Zion project in Lurgan and the Linencourt project
in Armagh have attracted positive comments. 14. In
the joint research paper published by the Simon Community and the Housing Executive, 'Care in
the Community: Housing Options for Young People Leaving Care', finding 18 reported
on the type of accommodation young people identified as a favoured option. Based
on their own experience of leaving care and through having identified barriers,
young people recommend the development of accommodation that allows partial
independence, but incorporates living with peers, support services
and an environment, which allows learning through mistakes. 15. There
is much to learn about how homelessness can be dealt with effectively by directly
asking those young people who experience it. Supported lodging schemes have operated in
Britain for a number of years. With proper resources, such a scheme would
add to the range of options available to those in Northern Ireland aged under 16 or 17.
The schemes offer encouragement for householders who rent a room in their
home to a young person.
Householders are expected to offer advice and emotional support and generally
to help the young person to acquire independent living skills. 16. Social
services staff are available to offer support and advice to both the householder and the young person.
With proper text and potential providers, and the desire on the part of the
young person for this type of option, such schemes would increase the range
of positive options available to homeless young people. For those 16- and 17-year-olds
that attempt to set up home on their own, there are added difficulties. It is
not possible to enter into most legally binding contracts with persons
under the age of 18. A 16- or 17-year-old will therefore find it impossible
to become a tenant, and will require an adult to enter into an agreement on
his behalf, which can be both dangerous and difficult. 17. In
1997 the Simon Community and the Housing Executive launched a rent guarantee
scheme. Under this scheme, the Simon Community acts as a guarantor for the young
person, being liable in the case of default. The promotion and wider availability
of the scheme would
help those homeless 16- and 17-year-olds for whom independent
living is appropriate. Housing benefit for those under the age of 25 is restricted
to the cost of shared accommodation. That can very much restrict the housing options for 16- and 17-year-olds,
particularly in the private rented sector. 18. Setting
up home can be very expensive. The only help currently available for young people setting up
home is through
the Social Fund. Housing Executive properties are let unfurnished, and
the cost of furnishing a property can run into thousands of pounds. It can be very difficult
for young people who are not care-leavers to obtain grants to help them set
up home. When grants are made available, they are wholly inadequate and may
enable a young person to purchase only the barest necessities. Benefit levels
for young people are also reduced solely because of age. A 16- or 17-year-old
in receipt of income support or jobseeker's allowance can expect £31.95,
or, in some circumstances £42, per week to live on. Such depressed
levels of income can hinder young people in their search for employment and
training. Maintaining a home on such a low income, as well as providing food
and clothing, can often prove impossible. 19. Shelter,
a voluntary organisation operating in the field of homelessness, has recently launched a programme
for use in schools. The homework programme has resources for teachers to use in the
classroom. By working with schoolchildren, the project aims to educate
young people about
homelessness and the difficulties involved in setting up home. By inviting
pupils to think about the issues involved, it is hoped that the project will help reduce
youth homelessness in the future. 20. The
Homelessness Bill, due to come into effect in England and Wales in April 2002,
introduces some encouraging measures. In particular, the requirement for local housing authorities
to formulate a homelessness strategy is enshrined in legislation. The provision
relating to specific actions which may be taken by other statutory and voluntary
agencies in relation to the achievement of objectives set by the homelessness
strategy is also encouraging. With adequate resources this type of joined-up
approach can only improve the position of the homeless. 21. Homelessness
is a complex problem requiring a multidisciplinary and multi-agency approach.
As Maurice Morrow,
then Minister for Social Development, declared in summer 2001, the causes
of homelessness are many, and its prevention is not something that my Department
alone can achieve. It is very encouraging that the Assembly, through the Social
Development Committee, has taken a keen interest in the issue. 22. Children
of all ages suffer due to homelessness, which can result from a number of factors.
The main reason for
homelessness among families is undoubtedly family breakdown. There is
a need for more research into the effects of homelessness on children. In this
submission, we have chosen to deal with issues raised by children contacting
the Children's Law Centre in relation to homelessness. For too long those aged
16 and 17 who
have become homeless have been overlooked. A lack of clarity about agencies'
functions has meant that young people quickly become disillusioned with the
help - or lack of it - available. Any strategy for dealing with homelessness
must include provision for improving services for 16- and 17-year-olds that become
homeless. 23. I
have put forward seven recommendations based on the submission. 24. The Acting Chairperson: You will have
an opportunity to put forward your recommendations later when Members will be
asking questions. What effect will the Children (Leaving Care) Bill have on
young homeless people? 25. Mr Mackle: The Children (Leaving Care)
Bill should be properly resourced. Several organisations, including First Key
NI, have reservations about social services taking on the housing and social security budget,
combined with their own budget. There is also the difficulty of whether there
will be any extra money involved, or will it just be a movement of budgets.
I have not considered the Children (Leaving Care) Bill in my submission, and
I presume that the Committee will be hearing representations from First Key
NI and other organisations that care for children leaving care. 26. The Acting Chairperson: We may not. However,
we would value your views if they were submitted separately. 27. Mr Mackle: Certainly. 28. Mr B Hutchinson: What would you include
in a framework of need in Northern Ireland, if we had one? Would it tell us
how to protect young people aged 16 and 17? 29. Mr Mackle: The legislation is in place to prevent 16-
and 17-year-old homeless children from falling through the net. A child who
has no accommodation should come under the legislation as a child in need. However,
that very much depends on which trust is involved. At the moment South and East
Belfast Trust is taking the view that all homeless children of 16 and 17 are
children in need. 30. During
the assessment process any framework should be looking at the whole picture
concerning the young person, and contacting the family with a view to reconciliation, if that is
appropriate. A trust may contact the family and the parents may say,
"No, he or she can come back at any stage". Regardless of what the young person
wants or feels, social services will then say that it has completed its assessment
and it can see no reason why the young person cannot go home. That has happened
in several cases that we have dealt with. 31. Mr B Hutchinson: South and East Belfast
Trust might be doing
that, which is fair, but other trusts should be doing that also. A 16-
or 17-year-old living in north and west Belfast should be entitled to exactly
the same treatment as someone in south and east Belfast, Foyle or wherever.
They all need equality, and need to be dealt with in exactly the same way. Is
there any legislation, in terms of a framework of need, elsewhere in the UK
that actually works and would fit those 16- and 17-year-olds? 32. Mr Mackle: Yes. England and Wales have
a framework for the assessment of children in need. In many circumstances the
assessment of children in need will be clear. If you have a child with a severe disability, then
you go through the assessment criteria relating to a disabled child. It will
be clear what children fit into that criterion. It seems that 16- and 17-year-olds
with no disabilities, and whose only presenting problem is homelessness - combined
with other problems which may come out in the assessment - are not getting
into an assessment
process where everything else is then looked at, because there is no
framework. 33. Mr B Hutchinson: That is the point I am making. 34. Mr Mackle: England and Wales have a very
comprehensive framework. 35. Mr B Hutchinson: You say that there is
a clear case when the child is disabled, and that that does not become clear
when the child is not disabled. Maybe a framework could be used that outlines and defines what
homelessness is for 16- or 17- year-olds. 36. Mr Tierney: You are saying that six categories
are now available, and some children may not come under those criteria. 37. Mr Mackle: Those six categories are the Housing Executive's
categories for priority need. 38. Mr Tierney: Are you saying that if 16-
and 17-year-olds do not come under those six categories, there should be further legislation
to allow that to happen? 39. Mr Mackle: Yes. We would probably need only to amend the legislation. At
present, the legislation says that a person would be considered to be vulnerable
because of disability or some other special reason. It might require
only departmental guidance to include homelessness or age in the category of
'some other special reason'. 40. Mr B Hutchinson: Mr Mackle may wish to
think about this, and provide the Committee with an amendment to the legislation
that would satisfy that provision. He could respond to that in writing. 41. The Acting Chairperson: The Committee would
welcome that. 42. Mr O'Connor: You mentioned south Belfast.
Could any encouragement
be given to other trusts? Surely it is possible, at a higher level in the Department of Health,
Social Services and Public Safety, the Department of Education or the Department
for Social Development, to develop a cohesive Northern Ireland-led strategy that
would ensure that
people are not disadvantaged because of where they live? You spoke about
some of the best practices. The Simon Community have a hostel where they run a mentoring system for
young people who live there and go out to work. How do you envisage developing
such a system, and how would you decide where it was needed? Do you envisage that
as being the way forward? 43. With
regard to the joined-up approach to government, and the poverty that young
people face, many people are caught in a trap where they cannot get money from
benefits. I am not trying to tarnish the reputation of young people, but is
something leading young people to try to get money in other ways? 44. Mr Mackle: Yes. Money spent on vulnerable
or homeless 16-and-17-year-olds is money well spent. If that money is not spent
at that stage, it is almost inevitable that a homeless 16-or 17-year-old man,
who has no money to live on, will drift into criminality. We may cost ourselves money
further down the line because it is more expensive to keep a 25-year-old in prison
than it is
to provide accommodation and support services for a 16-or 17-year-old
homeless person. 45. With
regard to the framework for assessment, and the different ways that it works
in different areas, the
Simon Community operates several hostels in various locations. Someone
in Bangor may be in the same position as someone in Newry, but unlike Newry, Bangor has a Simon Community hostel.
The Simon Community will take self-referrals from 17-year-olds, so provided
that they live somewhere where the Simon Community has accommodation, they will
at least have somewhere to go. Some trusts take the view that if they consider
a homeless 16-year-old to be a child in need, they would open the floodgates
and every 16-year-old would be looking for accommodation.
However, if the Committee has read the report on the causes of homelessness in this age group,
it will know that that is a very big step for any 16-or 17-year-old to take. There is no possibility
that social services would be swarmed with 16-year-olds looking for accommodation
and £30 per week. 46. Mr O'Connor: You have spoken about the
Simon Community and the rent guarantee scheme. Is there any way that scheme could be expanded? It
would not
necessarily have to be done by the Simon Community. Who would be the best people
to sponsor such a scheme or to help young people if the possibility of
a rent guarantee scheme was to be considered? 47. Mr Mackle: The Housing Executive, the
Simon Community,
social services, and all agencies that young homeless people would consider
to be a first port of call, should be aware of the rent guarantee scheme, how
it operates, and its availability. The scheme was launched in 1997, and it has
only been used in 200 cases since then. Very few of those cases were 16- and-17-year-olds.
The scheme has been very underused. 48. Mr O'Connor: What are your thoughts about
the current proposals to withdraw housing benefit from people who are living
in hostels? 49. Mr Mackle: There would be big repercussions
for the provision of hostel accommodation in the North. Many hostels, for
example, the Simon Community hostels and Women's Aid hostels, rely on
their income from housing benefit to keep them going. 50. Mr O'Connor: How devastating do you think
the loss of housing benefit would be? 51. Mr Mackle: Very devastating. It would
all but close many of the hostels. A lot of money has been invested in new schemes
such as the Foyer Project in Lurgan and Armagh, which offer very good services, but withdrawal of housing benefit
would have a devastating effect. Those projects cannot swim alone, and
they need the income from housing benefit to survive. 52. Mr O'Connor: All in all, everybody is
doing good work.
Is there is a need for somebody to co-ordinate all that good work? 53. Mr Mackle: Yes. 54. Mr O'Connor: Who should that be? 55. Mr Mackle: The children's commissioner
will go a long way
to ensure that all Government Departments and agencies work for the benefit
of children. 56. Mr Hamilton: Can you give some examples
of the circumstances that result in someone being classed as intentionally homeless?
Perhaps you could outline your organisation's strategy and list your
recommendations. Do you have any recommendations that you would like to see incorporated in the
Housing Bill with regard to this particular issue? 57. Mr Mackle: An example of someone who is
intentionally homeless would be a young person who has had a placement, or several
placements, and has abused them. That person might have been placed in a hostel
and abused that placement. Many hostels have very tight regulations with regard
to smoking and drinking, and that young person might have abused that rule and
lost the placement. Social services and the Housing Executive will usually give
young people several opportunities before deciding that they have come to the end of the road,
that there are no placements left. Those are the only circumstances that
would leave somebody intentionally homeless. Someone who leaves home, due to
difficulties in the family home, would not be classed as intentionally homeless. 58. Mr Hamilton: Are those people classed
as intentionally homeless at the moment? 59. Mr Mackle: They are not classed as intentionally homeless
- they are classed as not in priority need. They get over the "intentionality"
hurdle, but fail on the priority need hurdle. 60. Mr Hamilton: Your organisational strategy seems to suggest
that the folk who end up as being classed intentionally homeless are people who have had
several chances,
but for one reason or another - through abuse of the system or the regulations
- end up intentionally homeless. How do you deal with people who are at that
end of the scale? 61. Mr Mackle: Social services find it difficult
to help 16- and 17-year-olds with behavioural difficulties who are in that situation,
and it also causes problems for the community they live in. Our charity is very
small, so all we can do is direct them to the relevant service that should be
able to help them. Unfortunately, some young people exhaust all their opportunities,
so when they turn 18, people's responsibility will evaporate, and
they are left then to do their own thing. 62. Mr Hamilton: Are there any changes or
recommendations that you would like to see in the Housing Bill with regard to
the intentionally homeless? 63. Mr Mackle: Not in relation to the intentionally
or unintentionally homeless, but in relation to priority need, which is where
we see 16- and 17-year-olds slipping through the net. That comes back to changing
the existing housing order and extending the priority need categories to include
vulnerability due to age, so that 16- and 17-year-olds automatically qualify
as full duty applicants. That then raises difficulties, because at 18 years
old the situation changes. 64. Mr Hamilton: Could classifying all 16-
and 17-year-olds who are, or who become, homeless as priority needs have the
detrimental effect of pushing other people down the scale? Would it reduce their
chances? 65. Mr Mackle: Not if, as I mentioned earlier,
the type of accommodation
available for 16- and 17-year-olds is suitable to guide them and build
them up towards other accommodation in adulthood, and to get them through that
important vulnerable stage. 66. Mr Tierney: It is also the case that if
the offer is refused, or if they leave accommodation voluntarily rather than
abusing the facility, they are classed as homeless. Are you happy for the Housing
Executive to carry out an assessment, so long as the other agency is involved? 67. Mr Mackle: Social services take the primary
responsibility for
assessing the needs of 16- and 17- year -olds. They are still children and fall
within the Children's (NI) Order 1995. However, the Housing Executive
should take primary responsibility for the provision of accommodation, and the
payment for accommodation through the housing benefit scheme. The two agencies
must work closely. The advantage in England and Wales is that housing and social
services are under one local authority. In Northern Ireland the agencies are
separate and often each does not know what the other is doing. 68. Mr Tierney: I understand your point, but
given the need, one
agency must determine if they are homeless under whatever category. 69. Mr Mackle: The Housing (Northern Ireland)
Order 1988 and the
Children's (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 may need to be examined together.
Sixteen- and 17-year-olds are possibly a special category and do not fit into
the other categories of homeless person. They are children in need of accommodation. 70. The Acting Chairperson: Much of the debate
on the 16- and 17-year-old category concerns the definition of homelessness and, consequently,
the criteria used to judge that. If you were asked to redefine homelessness,
could you put particular emphasis on any category to reflect more accurately the condition of homelessness
as you see it? 71. Mr Mackle: The Committee should take a
wider view of homelessness, and should not use the statutory definition of a
homeless person as someone who is not intentionally homeless and who is in priority
need. When homelessness was considered in the English legislation there was
a very wide remit. There was an extensive list of all persons falling into the
category of homelessness
- the actual homeless, the hidden homeless, families, parents and young
people. The Committee should examine a wide definition of homelessness. 72. The Acting Chairperson: You can now read
your recommendations for the record. 73. Mr Mackle: I have seven short recommendations. The
first is a requirement for health and social services trusts and local Housing
Executive offices to agree protocols and assessment procedures for 16- and 17- year- olds who present
as homeless to either agency. Designated officers in each agency should
be tasked with ensuring that protocols operate effectively and that information
is available to young people on services in each trust area. There should be a review
of the priority need categories in the existing homeless legislation
in the Housing (Northern
Ireland) Order 1988. This review should consider the extension of the priority
need categories to include vulnerability due to age so that homeless 16-and
17-year- olds can become full duty applicants. 74. Clear
assessment criteria should be introduced for use by health and social services trusts when considering
whether a child is in need, and that criteria should be uniform across all trusts.
There should be increased provision of accommodation options for homeless 16
and 17 year olds. This should include not only an increased number
of suitable options, but also an increased range of options. There should be
a review of the housing benefit scheme to look at removing that age differentiation which significantly reduces
the accommodation choices of those under 25. There should be a consideration
of benefit levels
for young people and the lack of assistance available to young people
to establish a home. Finally, there should be promotion of the rent and deposit
guarantee schemes throughout Northern Ireland. 75. The Acting Chairperson: The Committee
will be grateful for your response to the two items we have asked you to look
at further. Several times in the definition you compared the existing legislation here with the
United Kingdom. Could you also draw out the differences in the legislation,
as you see them, between here
and there, which would be helpful to the Committee as a contrast. Thank
you all for coming along. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Tuesday 5 February 2002 Members present: Mr ONeill (Acting Chairperson) Mr Hamilton Mr B Hutchinson Mr O'Connor Mr M Robinson Mr Tierney Witnesses: Mrs J Barry ) North and West Belfast Health
and Social Services Trust Mr P O'Hara ) Principal Social Worker 76. The Acting Chairperson: You are very welcome.
You will have 10
minutes for an introductory presentation to complement your submission, and then Members
will ask some questions. 77. Mrs Barry: Good afternoon. I am Jane Barry,
the manager of the out-of-hours emergency duty social work team, and Philip
O'Hara is the principal social worker responsible for the team's operational
arrangements. I
thank the Committee for giving us the opportunity to talk about our service.
My presentation will broadly follow the content of my written submission with
some extra detail added for your information. 78. The
emergency duty team was established in July 2000 to provide a comprehensive out-of-hours emergency
social work service for health and social services trusts in the Eastern Health
and Social Services Board area. The team consists of eight full-time office-based
professionally qualified social workers, and we can also access the services of 12
locum social workers contracted to the team. North and West Belfast Trust has the highest
number of referrals to the out-of-hours service, and as a result it has been tasked with the operational
management of the service. The service is available to all members of the public, all statutory
agencies and other organisations in the Eastern Health and Social Services
Board area where circumstances require an immediate response to fulfil
statutory duties of the four trusts. The service also responds to all
calls relating to homelessness on behalf of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and out- of-
hours enquiries in relation to the Social Security Agency. 79. The
service is based at Knockbracken Healthcare Park. Contact with service users is primarily by telephone,
although in cases of assessed need, home visits will be made. There is no public
access to the office, and its location is not publicised. The service operates
from 5 pm to 9 am each weekday, with 24-hour cover on weekends, bank holidays and
public holidays. In providing the service, we have two to three social
workers on duty at the office base from 5 pm to 1 am, while one social worker
is on call from home between 1 am to 9 am. Contact with the service is by telephone,
and the telephone number is publicised within the four trusts, the Northern
Ireland Housing Executive and the Social Security Agency. 80. Until
1988, social services held the statutory responsibility for homelessness. However,
with the introduction of the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988, this responsibility
was statutorily transferred to the Housing Executive. It was agreed at that time,
between the Housing Executive and the social work directors of the four trusts, that the
out-of-hours provision in relation to homelessness would continue to be provided by social
services on behalf
of the Housing Executive. The rationale for this decision was based on
the fact that social services already had the mechanism in place to deliver
the service, and that homelessness accounted for only approximately 2% of calls
to the out-of-hours service. There were also financial implications for both
the executive and the Trust if the Housing Executive had had to set up a separate
out-of-hours service. 81. In
providing such a service to homeless people, the emergency duty team (EDT) fulfils
the Housing Executive statutory responsibility under the Housing (Northern Ireland)
Order 1988, which requires the executive to ensure accommodation is made available
to certain groups of homeless people. The emergency duty team will make an assessment
in relation to all out-of-hours requests for accommodation from persons 18 years
and over and their families under articles 3 and 6 of the Housing (Northern
Ireland) Order 1988. Single adults who are not assessed as vulnerable under
the legislation are provided with advice and information
to help them secure accommodation. Single adults who are assessed as vulnerable
under the legislation, which is; those suffering from mental and physical disability,
risk from violence at home, elderly persons, those subjected to intimidation,
pregnant women, and those homeless due to an emergency, will be found accommodation by the team and transported, if necessary, to that accommodation.
In the case of families with dependent children, accommodation will again be secured
and transport to that accommodation provided. 82. The
emergency duty team can only provide temporary accommodation until the next
working day, when the matter is referred to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive. The emergency
duty team can access placements in hostels, bed and breakfast accommodation
and hotels. The Housing Executive pays for all accommodation provided by the
emergency duty team to clients
eighteen years and older, and their accompanying children. The number
of homeless referrals to the team between September and December 2001 is included
in my written submission. Approximately 30% of single adults and families who contacted the service were
provided with accommodation by the team. The remaining 70% were given
advice or the telephone number of self-referral hostels, or declined the accommodation
offered by the team. 83. As
well as providing a service in relation to homelessness for adults, the emergency
duty team is also statutorily obliged to provide accommodation for those between 16 and 18 years
under article 21, paragraph 3 of the Children (Northern Ireland) Order
1995. Homelessness in the 16 to 18 year age group is an expanding area of work
for the team, and increases in the number of homeless young persons has also
been noted by the Simon Community. It is concerning that recent research indicates
that almost a quarter of young care leavers were homeless at some stage in the
six months immediately following their leaving care. The emergency duty team
would find that a substantial number of referrals for accommodation within this
age range come from young people with a care history. The figures of referrals
made to the team during September to December of last year can be found in the
written submission; the emergency duty team would accommodate approximately
40% of referrals in this age group made to the team. The remaining 60 % of young
people who have contacted the team with regard to homelessness received counselling
or direct intervention that permitted them to return to their families. Otherwise,
they did not accept the placements offered to them by the team. It is
important to note that the majority of 16-year olds accommodated by the team
are housed in bed and breakfast accommodation, as most hostels will not accept
young people under the age of 17. The placements made for this age group are
financed by the health and social services trusts. 84. While
the emergency duty team is providing a high standard response to homeless people
it seems that the service provision could be enhanced. Details on how this could
be achieved are contained in the written submission. A more integrated response
to homelessness
by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and the social services trusts
would provide a more seamless
service for those adults and young people who find themselves homeless. A dual financial and
operational commitment
to the out-of-hours provision for homeless people would bring about a
sharing of information and expertise, ensuring that people receive a responsive,
well-informed service
and are placed most appropriately according to their needs. 85. An
assessment of the current accommodation provision, and how this is meeting the needs of homeless
persons, could inform future planning for homeless provision, offering improved
access for homeless people to a wider range of accommodation options.
This could allow for the development of more specialist accommodation for those
people with special needs, such as those suffering from mental health problems,
young persons and families. 86. The Deputy Chairperson: It is clear from
the written submission and your oral presentation that, from your point of view,
there is considerable difficulty due to the lack of joined-up co-operation
between the EDT and the Housing Executive. When you talk about an integrated
approach between the Housing Executive and the team, what kind of specific arrangements
do you mean? Are you talking about Housing Executive staff being available for
out-of-hour services, for example? 87. Mrs Barry: That would be helpful. Emergency
duty teams in England have access to somebody from the local authority housing
department. If a homeless person approaches them they can contact the person
on call. There needs to be commitment to providing a service from both the trusts
and the Housing Executive. They must be involved equally, and their roles
and responsibilities
must be clarified. Our out-of-hours service has little input from the
Housing Executive in relation to the work that we are doing. We get little feedback
about the appropriateness of our assessments of our clients' vulnerabilities,
which concerns me. We are doing what we think is correct. 88. Mr ONeill: You do not have all the information,
which is quite frightening - particularly in relation to the possibility outlined
in the submission that vulnerable people could be placed beside those
who may want to exploit their vulnerability. The Committee will have to take
cognisance of including this recommendation. 89. Mr Tierney: It seems that what you are
suggesting is a bit of common sense. Has there ever been a meeting with the
Housing Executive in order to make those suggestions? I cannot envisage the Housing Executive
objecting to members of its staff being on call. In some cases I believe that
members of the EDT contact
people in the Housing Executive when someone comes to them - to find
out what is available for that person. I also believe that the Housing Executive would have no
problem with that. Have you put these points to the Housing Executive, and sought
its co-operation on things that need to be done? 90. Mrs Barry: I have discussed the issue of accessing
out-of-hours placements with the Housing Executive. The EDT can access a manager
by going through the housing repair service, in some cases. However, that would
be an informal, ad hoc arrangement, and there is room for a more formal arrangement. 91. Mr O'Hara: The development of an out-of-hours social
work service is relatively new to the Eastern Health and Social Services Board. We have been operating
for a year and a half now, and over the next month we plan to have a formal
review of the service. We have arranged for an inspector, who has developed
similar services in England, to come over and guide us in developing the service.
Within that context, I see scope for a more formal mechanism of consulting with
the executive to develop that service. Within our own trust we are meeting at
a senior level with the executive about a variety of issues, which have been
touched on in previous presentations. My responsibility will be to raise the
issues that Mrs Barry has brought up about the out-of-hours service. 92. The Acting Chairperson: Is it an out-of-hours
service only, which
you are providing, and during normal hours, the Housing Executive provides
this? Are you satisfied with that aspect, or would you prefer that joint approach
applied to both services? 93. Mr O'Hara: This relates to some of the
previous presentations about homelessness among those less than 18 years old.
It is essential that there is joined-up thinking, with more co-operation between
the Housing Executive
and social services trusts. I have not consulted with my colleagues about
this, but I would imagine that social services would not want to revert back
to pre-1988, when we were responsible for homelessness. 94. The Acting Chairperson: Would you like
to see a joint approach all the time? 95. Mrs Barry: Yes, particularly with regard
to vulnerable groups of people, such as young persons and those who suffer from
mental health problems. Research has indicated that between 30% and 50% of homeless
persons suffer from a mental health problem. We have to look at the types of
accommodation that we are providing. If we had a review of the current arrangements,
we could look at what the future needs are, and use that to inform our
future provision for the vulnerable groups. 96. Mr Hamilton: In your written submission
you state that a violent offender could end up being placed in bed and breakfast accommodation
alongside children because your service does not have access to information
held by the Housing Executive. Have you approached the Housing Executive on
this matter with a view to gaining access to the information? If you have, what
reasons are given by the Housing Executive for not permitting you access? I
am concerned that vulnerable people are placed at more
risk because one group cannot get the relevant information. 97. Mrs Barry: We have spoken to the Housing
Executive about getting
more information about clients. On occasions, we have received phone
calls from them to alert us that a person may attempt to access our service and for a particular reason
it is not felt suitable to house them in a certain type of accommodation. That sometimes
happens. 98. However, given the use of
computers and databases, there should be a more formal way for us to
access information about the particulars of an individual and about the placements
available at any one time. It is difficult for us to access the placements.
There may be several hundred homeless placements, but by five o'clock in the
evening the chances are that most of those places have been filled, and we are dealing with a limited
number of placements. 99. Mr Hamilton: Has the Housing Executive
given you any reasons for not allowing you to have the information that you
need? 100. Mrs Barry: We have not actually asked
for a reason. We do not have meetings with the Housing Executive to bring up
the sorts of issues that arise out-of-hours. As Mr O'Hara explained, this is a new service,
and this work accounts for about 10% of the team's total work. There are many
areas that we need to examine, and that is definitely one of them. 101. Mr Hamilton: Would you recommend that
the Committee should consider incorporating a mechanism for sharing information
into the Housing Bill, to make information sharing compulsory? 102. Mrs Barry: It can benefit the person we
place if we have access to up to date information about the difficulties that
person has had. For example, a person who has problems with alcohol may have had difficulty
in obtaining a placement, and, therefore, some places would be better than others for that person. If
we had that sort of information, we could make better choices of accommodation for the individuals
we are dealing with. 103. Mr B Hutchinson: The out-of-hours work
that you do is very valuable. Many people find themselves homeless after hours
for different reasons, including civil disturbances. How effective are the existing arrangements,
and what changes are needed to bring the levels of homelessness down? 104. Mr O'Hara: Do you mean within the out
of hours team? 105. Mr B Hutchinson: No. I know that you provide
an out-of-hours service, but the question applies to the effectiveness of existing
arrangements and measures to reduce homelessness in general. 106. Mr O'Hara: I was interested in Mr Mackle's
presentation on youth homelessness. Wearing my other hat, I have responsibility for residential childcare
in north and west Belfast, and there is an obvious interface between
aftercare and homelessness. I would like the issues that we have discussed today
to be developed - the Housing Executive initiatives, uniform assessments of
children in need, and the partnerships that we can enter into with voluntary
agencies such as the Simon Community and Mulholland House aftercare. There should
be a range of provisions for vulnerable young people, from supported hostel
accommodation, with our staff on duty 24 hours a day to help young people, to
the more independent type of provision that we have talked about. Our response
would be focused around young people's provision and a variety of provisions. 107. Mr B Hutchinson: You probably know about the provisions in your own area,
but are such places available across Northern Ireland? 108. Mr O'Hara: The services are limited and
patchy across Northern Ireland. There is emerging need, and the figures that
we have show that, between our trust and the local Housing Executive offices
in districts four, five and six, there are 40 referrals of people under 18 years
of age per month. We must examine what provision is on offer at present, and
plug any gaps in it. 109. Mr B Hutchinson: Who would provide the units? 110. Mr O'Hara: North and West Belfast Trust
intends to provide accommodation and aftercare for the more vulnerable young
people who need structured support. At the other end of the continuum, we will have a unit
for the more independent people. Therefore, there will be a range of providers, from the social services
trust at one end of the scale to the voluntary agencies and independent accommodation
at the other end. We are talking to Mulholland House aftercare and entering
into partnership with the Simon Community to provide hostel accommodation in north
and west Belfast. However, we need more accommodation. 111. The Acting Chairperson: What about the
other health board areas? 112. Mr O'Hara: I cannot comment on what is
available in other board areas. I could try to get such information through
the trust, but my focus is on the out-of-hours team and the North and West Belfast Trust. 113. The Acting Chairperson: Do you know if
they provide a similar service? 114. Mr O'Hara: They are developing an out-of-hours service. 115. Mrs Barry: The Southern Board and the
Western Board use the same
type of system that we were operating before our team was created - that is,
a group of social workers who elect to be on a rota to receive phone
calls from the public. If it were assessed that a visit had to be made, they
would have a panel of social workers that they could contact. The Northern Board
currently operates that system, but it is looking towards developing a team
similar to ours. 116. Mr O'Connor: When you began to develop
your service, did you look at other models and what other people were doing,
or did the service develop itself to meet the needs that were coming in? 117. Mrs Barry: Both. The numbers of contacts
to the service made it clear that it could not continue with one person answering telephone
calls for a whole board area. Therefore, we had to look at different
ways to bring about
the same service more effectively. Research was carried out on different
teams in England and Scotland. The formation of EDTs is widespread in England
- most have been going for about 17 to 20 years. We were able to get much information
there, and our system would be set up broadly similar to those. 118. Mr O'Connor: We all want to develop the
best possible service for the people of Northern Ireland. In our different board
and trust areas the type of service provided to someone is dependent on where
they live because of geographical difference. To take that a stage further,
if we were looking at a review of public administration where there may be an
amalgamation of boards in the future, how do we develop one clear strategy - not one for the Southern
Board or one for the Northern Board - to provide an out-of-hours service
to the people of Northern Ireland, that can access information regarding that
person to help them? If you access that information, there obviously must be
some protection of the information obtained. How would you envisage what you
are doing expanding right across Northern Ireland, creating a delivery of service
that can meet the needs of the whole community but not disadvantage anybody
because of where they currently live? 119. Mr O'Hara: Your point is well made. In
the Eastern Health and Social Services Board area, we feel the service that we have
developed is the most appropriate way forward. We are reviewing the out-of-hours
social work service for the Eastern Board. We have invited the one expert that
we could get our hands on in Great Britain to come across and give us some guidance
and support as to how services have developed across the water. We have invited
the Department to that review. We would hope to see similar teams develop in
the Southern Board and Northern Board areas. Representatives from those
boards are also coming to the review, so we will have a uniform service. 120. Mr O'Connor: This maybe slightly different,
but we all have this emphasis on going to see how things are done in England.
Have you ever looked to see what is happening in south Dublin or a similar area? There
can be different problems and legislation, but I am referring to how best we
can meet peoples' needs. 121. Mr O'Hara: I still feel that a dedicated
team set up to respond to out-of-hours issues is the most effective way forward
to meet the needs of the people of the Eastern Board area. 122. Mrs Barry: I was not involved at the establishment
of the service. However, in relation to the South of Ireland, I have been in
contact with different social services there to find out about their out-of-hours
provision. It seems to be much more based on the system that we used to have,
and they are also looking at how best to provide that. 123. The
Eastern Board out-of-hours service is getting quite a lot of attention from
other trusts and boards recently because they are interested to see how it works. We are at the early
stages of setting up our team, but we are already receiving very positive
comments about it.
An initial survey of service users was very positive, and we hope to
build on that. We are currently arranging links with each board, to look at
what each board is doing. Sharing of information and expertise is very important
and we can all learn from it. It will hopefully bring all services up to a better
standard. 124. Mr O'Connor: It is very important to talk
to other boards.
In Mr Mackle's presentation he mentioned that young homeless people in
south Belfast were all classed as children in need, which helped with applicant points
for homeless young people. That is one example of where a co-ordinated approach
between all boards could deliver a better service. There are shortcomings with
all services - it is the nature of it. It is sometimes difficult to get something done at 3 am. Rather
than having services in Knockbracken, Ballymena, or wherever, each trying to do a little
bit, could there be an overarching team? The Southern and Northern Boards
could each provide
three people, and a central overarching unit could specifically deal
with that type of service. 125. Mr O'Hara: That may come out of the current
review. Other boards have been invited to the formal review, at which the Department
of Health, Social Services and Public Safety will also be represented. However,
I am not sure about the logistics of a social worker responding from Knockbracken
to a problem in Newry. We picked Knockbracken because it is quite central to
the Eastern Board area, with quick access to the motorways and the Westlink.
We are able to respond quite quickly to emergency calls, and can get to
most referrals within 30 minutes. As regards personal contact, we must
be able to respond quite quickly. However, we could look at some form of overarching
service as part of the review between the four boards. 126. Mr O'Connor: You could even look at co-ordinating the service,
rather than an "on-the-ground" thing. 127. The Chairperson: Thank you for your views.
The Committee is collecting evidence to help form recommendations that the Committee
will want to see included in legislation. Some issues that the Committee has dealt
with will not be legislated for, but they will appear in the practice guides
that will be issued as a result of the legislation. In that sense, it is valuable
to hear your evidence. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Thursday 7 February 2002 Members present: Ms Gildernew (Deputy Chairperson) Sir John Gorman Mr Hamilton Mr B Hutchinson Mr O'Connor Mr ONeill Mr M Robinson Mr Tierney Witnesses: Mr B McMullan
) Mrs S McLean
) NIACRO Mr P Conway
) 128. The Deputy Chairperson: You are very welcome;
may the Committee hear your evidence. 129. Mr Conway: I am Pat Conway, director of
development and
communication with the Northern Ireland Association for the Care and Resettlement of Offenders
(NIACRO). Síle McLean is our resettlement manager, and Barry McMullan is our
advice officer. 130. NIACRO
is not an accommodation provider, but we take an interest in accommodation issues
through our work in the criminal justice system. We have close working relationships
with other organisations that act as providers: the Housing Executive, EXTERN,
the Simon Community,
the Salvation Army, and the Probation Board for Northern Ireland. 131. NIACRO
is a non-governmental organisation that provides services in five operational areas: training,
resettlement, crime
prevention, families, and youth justice. Our interest in accommodation
stems from various sources. It is obvious that a person who is homeless is more
likely to be driven into crime. As we are particularly interested in
crime prevention, we are concerned that homelessness issues be sorted out sooner rather than
later. A homeless
person may turn to crime to get money to live. 132. In
our annual report we list the five areas that we must address when trying to
resettle individuals who have been through the criminal justice system, and
if possible before they reach it. These are finance, accommodation, employment
and training, behavioural programmes for those engaged in criminal activity,
and welcoming social networks. Tackling those five areas will reduce crime and
will reduce the number of victims of crime. In all its work, NIACRO attempts
to reduce crime and the number of people affected by it. 133. Mr McMullan: My name is Barry McMullan,
and I am the advice officer in the family services unit of NIACRO. I offer information
and advice to prisoners' families. I also work at Hydebank Young Offenders'
Centre, HMP Maghaberry
and HMP Magilligan. I work with prisoners at different stages of imprisonment
- on remand, during their sentence and before release. 134. Much of my work focuses on
housing. Regardless of the offence, remand is a very confusing and stressful
time. At that point it is important that information and advice on welfare rights,
benefit support and housing rights is available. 135. When
a person is remanded he worries about how he will pay mortgage or rent now that
he has lost his income Remand prisoners are entitled to claim and to receive
housing benefit for up to 52 weeks. Housing benefit will be paid from the date that one enters
prison. However,
homeowners cannot apply for housing benefit because they do not pay rent;
they can, however, apply for income support. 136. A
homeowner who pays a mortgage can apply for income support for help towards
housing costs. The problem with applying for income support is that no help
with housing costs will be paid until week nine of one's incarceration.
For the following 18 weeks only half the eligible housing costs will be
paid. A remand prisoner who rents accommodation in the private or voluntary
sector will have all his housing costs met without question, but a homeowner
will be penalised. A homeowner will inevitably run into debt and risk losing
his accommodation. We help in negotiations with the mortgage lenders to gain
a breathing space. 137. A
person who is sentenced in the community - in other words, one who has not spent
any remand time and whose sentence is less than 13 weeks - may claim housing benefit for
private rented accommodation while in prison. A person whose sentence
is more than 13 weeks, even a day over 13 weeks, is not entitled to
housing benefit. Homeowners
who are sentenced receive no help during their sentence; they are penalised.
However, homeowners may cut their losses by putting their house up for sale,
as they may face repossession. Alternatively, they may rent the house out. I
advise them to contact a solicitor or an estate agent to arrange to do so if they want to
hold on to their accommodation. 138. Tenants
who receive a lengthy sentence and who are not entitled to housing benefit may
be under pressure to terminate the tenancy, especially Housing Executive tenants. If they
terminate their tenancy voluntarily, they will face a problem on release
because the Housing Executive will deem them intentionally homeless and therefore not a priority
for rehousing. 139. Tenants
who must give up their property because of imprisonment often find that storing their belongings
can be a problem. The Housing Executive can offer no help, except in cases of
intimidation. Individuals often lose all their personal possessions as well
as their property and furniture. The landlord will dump everything unless the tenant can make
alternative arrangements with family or friends. The cost of storage is often a problem. 140. We
assist prisoners in making applications to the Housing Executive for accommodation
in preparation for release. Under the present system, an application will be
posted to the district office near the prison. For example, for the young offenders'
centre it will be Church Road, Dundonald, for Maghaberry it will be Lisburn
Housing Executive District Office and for Magilligan it will be Limavady. Unfortunately,
it will lie in the office without assessment, regardless of the amount or detail
of information that is included. A prisoner has zero points and is persona non
grata until he returns to the community. However, article 3(6) of the Housing
(Northern Ireland) Order 1988 states that if a person is threatened with homelessness,
or will be homeless within 28 days, the Housing Executive has a duty to carry
out an assessment of need. That is not happening. 141. We
advise ex-prisoners who approach the Housing Executive for accommodation to
do so under the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988. The Order sets out three
tests: a person must show that he or she is homeless; that he or she has a priority
need based on personal
circumstances; that he or she is not intentionally homeless. All released
prisoners are tarred with the same brush; they are classed as intentionally
homeless, regardless of their circumstances. We have challenged some of the
Housing Executive's decisions in order to get a decision about "intentionalities" reversed,
because the Housing Executive has not considered personal circumstances. 142. Under
the present housing selection scheme, a person who is not regarded as a full-duty
applicant under the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988 may get additional
points. One of the categories is release from prison. However, different districts employ
different practices - there is no uniformity or consistency of approach
for ex-prisoners. 143. There
are also disqualification criteria. An ex-prisoner who has rent arrears of more
than four weeks can be disqualified from the waiting list unless an agreement
is made to repay the arrears. Where ex-prisoners have entered into agreements
to repay and are making repayments out of their benefits or other income, the
Housing Executive adds the stipulation that they must pay a substantial amount
of the arrears before they are offered accommodation. That is not in the legislation.
That practice is employed in district offices, but there is no legislative base
for demanding that a substantial amount of arrears must be repaid before accommodation
is offered. 144. Mrs McLean: NIACRO, which is a voluntary
organisation, has discussed resettlement issues with the Prison Service and
with the Probation Board, and with the support of the Department for Employment
and Learning, it has made joint proposals to the European Union. It has secured
equal funding to initiate a small project, which will begin to meet the needs
of people on release from prison in a more coherent way. It will also target
prison resources more towards preparation for release. NIACRO's objective is
to improve the employability of ex-prisoners to help them to get jobs. However, ex-prisoners face
many difficulties when trying to secure accommodation. 145. There
are particular problems in rural areas when a prisoner cannot return to the
family home. That is made more difficult if the person has been convicted of
sex offences. Finding accommodation for such people is very difficult for communities
and organisations. It is important to acknowledge that there are many different
kinds of sexual offence. The need to assess risk is being addressed through
interagency co-operation. However, NIACRO wants to draw the Committee's
attention to the issues of
accommodation and of supporting people when a sex offender returns to
a community. These
are particular difficulties that the Housing Executive and the Probation
Board face. 146. NIACRO
also has concerns about young people. Young people who come through the care
system are occasionally
accommodated by social services. However, if they begin to offend and
if their behaviour goes out of control, there can be real difficulties in finding
them suitable alternative accommodation. They are not accommodated in the care
system, and they are not old enough to have independent accommodation. Nor would
that necessarily be suitable for them because sometimes when they obtain flats, their friends
stay with them and the flats can become a focus of anti-social behaviour in the community.
There is a real need to solve the problems of young people who need support
but who, for one reason or another, cannot live at home. 147. Resettling
people with mental health problems also gives NIACRO cause for concern. These
include those who
have been diagnosed and who receive treatment for mental illness as well
as those whose mental health problems have been induced by addictions and those
whose needs are not
addressed by the psychiatric services - such as those who have personality
disorders. Those people are now less likely to be hospitalised. Community care arrangements
and accommodation arrangements present a real challenge to all the organisations involved.
I want to acknowledge that our sister organisation, EXTERN, has been working
in Belfast to establish a homeless support team, and that has taken several years.
The problem is evident across Northern Ireland. 148. I
particularly want to highlight the needs of women. Although fewer women are in custody in Northern
Ireland they do have accommodation needs. One difficulty is that the
self-referral hostel provision is used predominantly by single males. It is
therefore not always appropriate for vulnerable young females who have been involved in offending
behaviour to be accommodated in such hostels. 149. There is also a stigma attached
to women offenders. There is some level of acceptance of a young man
with a conviction for burglary, but a young woman with a similar conviction is at
times viewed with much more suspicion. Private landlords can have difficulty in taking
on someone whom they
know to be coming out of prison. 150. Repeat
homelessness is a feature of people who have left prison, particularly of those
who serve shorter sentences and are regularly in and out of prison. It is on
these people in particular
that our resettlement approach focuses. Their offences may not be the
most serious, but
they create disturbance and cause a great deal of concern for local communities.
While those people are in the cycle of imprisonment they are also in the cycle
of homelessness.
It is difficult to sustain accommodation and support. The Housing
Executive is examining support, and we are anxious to see a co-ordinated
approach. 151. Although
these figures are from England and Wales, they reflect our situation in that
almost 60% of prisoners
are unemployed before sentencing and almost 40% are homeless on release.
It is a recurring problem and a co-ordinated response is required. 152. Mr Conway: The Base 2 project deals with people and
families who are under paramilitary threat and has been in existence for approximately
10 years. Members of the Committee will be given a copy of the report for 2000.
A copy of the report for 2001 will also be made available to the Committee as
soon as it comes off the presses. The 2000 report covers the period of the feud
in the Shankill Road. We thought at the time that the numbers of people who
were experiencing intimidation had spiked - there were approximately 850 - but
the figure for last year surpasses that. The problem still exists. 153. During
2000 there were 854 referrals to the project; of those 658 were male and 196
were female. The
number of females affected is therefore significant. They were mainly
aged between 18 to 25 and 25 and over. The statistics may be slightly skewed
because of events on the Shankill. The figure of 121 aged 17 and under is significant
and has repercussions for childcare. Most of those affected were single. 154. The
number of families in 2000 was 180. The definition of "family" is where children are involved,
not just a couple. 155. We
get referrals from statutory, voluntary and community organisations. I must
emphasise that these figures only relate to the work carried out by Base 2;
they do not reflect the work of other organisations. The alleged source of threat
in 2000 was 371 Loyalist and 262 Republican. That is what those who are threatened
tell Base 2; we preface it with "alleged". 156. Belfast,
as one would expect, has the highest number. However, it happens across Northern
Ireland in Derry,
Lisburn, Bangor, Newry, Rathcoole, Ballymena, Larne, Antrim, Portadown,
Lurgan, Carrickfergus, Newtownards, Downpatrick, Coleraine, Glengormley, Armagh
and others. 157. Most
people who come to Base 2 give antisocial behaviour, drugs and auto-theft as
the main reason for their being under threat. There are many other reasons.
Most of those who come to
Base 2 have not been kneecapped, beaten or had any physical violence
visited on them.
They come to Base 2 either believing or knowing that something is about
to happen to them, or they may have been told to get out of the country. 158. The
services provided by Base 2 include transport, verification advice, mediation,
a supporting letter, assistance with accommodation and help to get people back
into their areas. The Committee may be aware that the House of Commons Northern
Ireland Affairs Committee conducted an investigation in November/December 2000.
We, along with other interested
parties, made a submission to the Committee. It focused on individuals
who were ending up in England, Scotland or Wales. 159. Base
2 actively discourages people from leaving Northern Ireland, as they experience cultural dislocation
elsewhere. Whether they come from Nationalist or Loyalist areas, most, although
not all, come from working-class backgrounds, are fairly young and have low
educational attainment. If they cannot survive, develop and grow in their own
communities, how can they do so in other, less-welcoming communities? One example
is the Irish accommodation networks in London. They date mostly from the 1950s
and 1960s and are organised by the Catholic Church, and they are often ambivalent
about anybody from the North. A person from a Loyalist area would not be very
enamoured with hostels that have a very clear Catholic ethos. There are many
problems of cultural dislocation. 160. Mr ONeill: The Committee wants to find
out the causes of homelessness; it wants to find out about young offenders who,
after passing through the care system, offend and are released into the community. 161. Does
your organisation provide help and support to young people to ease the transition
from sentence to release and to help them to adjust to the difficulties they
may experience, especially as they may have problems stemming from having spent
time in care? What agencies help people who have just been released and who
have difficulties in coping? What support exists for them? 162. Mrs McLean: NIACRO and the trusts will
provide a mentoring scheme for young people who are released from care. Juveniles
who have committed offences and who are on remand and subsequently sentenced
will be supervised by the Probation Board under juvenile justice centre orders.
Approximately half the people in the young offenders' centre are on custody
probation orders. As the Committee may know, that sentence is unique to Northern
Ireland and was introduced only recently. The orders stipulate a period of planned
supervision for the person on release. That is not to say that all the resources
that are required for the period of supervision are available to the Probation
Board. However, those orders apply to half the people who come through the system. 163. Others
in the young offenders' centre are serving short sentences, and they will be
released without supervision. There are also many people who will be in and
out of custody, serving time for non-payment of fines. On any given day in Northern
Ireland, half the people who arrive at the prison door are there because they
have not paid fines. Those people spend a short time in sentenced custody, but
they suffer the same disruption to their lives. 164. The
uncertainty of the remand system causes difficulties in planning for the release
of those on remand. The young person in custody and on remand may have only limited involvement
in the prison situation. He may, by the time of his sentence, have been
on remand for many months and may, indeed, have served most of his time on remand.
Many will spend only a short period in custody before release. 165. The
Probation Board and the Prison Service have been examining that issue with us,
and we are entering into partnership with them under Equal. We are trying to
link all three establishments to co-ordinate a better response to people's resettlement
needs. We already have an employment project in the young offenders' centre.
We offer the gateway part of New Deal to those who are interested in participating
in it before their release. 166. Several
organisations, such as Challenge for Youth and other volunteer organisations
operate in the community.
At present, we are trying to work with those organisations to improve
the co-ordination of release plans for young people. 167. Mr Hamilton: You mentioned the clauses
in the legislation about intentional homelessness and you say that many people
who are sentenced find themselves classed as intentionally homeless when they are released. What
is your organisation's strategy for dealing with those people? Would you like to see specific requirements
included in the proposed Housing Bill to address that issue? 168. Mr McMullan: I want to go back to the
intentionality issue.
A person who voluntarily or deliberately leaves his accommodation and
for whom no alternative
accommodation is available will be deemed intentionally homeless. 169. If a person has a tenancy agreement with a landlord
to pay rent every month, the landlord may evict him if he fails to pay the rent,
in accordance with the tenancy agreement. The Housing Executive will deem that
person to be intentionally homeless because of a deliberate act on his part
that led to his becoming homeless. That is the simple explanation of intentionality. 170. The
Housing Executive applies the rules because this relates to public sector accommodation.
If a former prisoner applies to the Housing Executive he will be asked where
he last lived and why he had to leave. Since he served a sentence he will be
classed as intentionally homeless; other factors, such as lifestyle, social
skills and the ability to seek accommodation without support are not taken into
consideration. 171. One
life sentence prisoner lived with his mother and father before going into prison.
He served about 13 or 14 years before being released on licence. With the support
of his probation officer, he applied to the Housing Executive for accommodation
in Belfast. He was turned down on the first ground - that he did not have a
priority need under the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988. We argued that
spending 13 or 14 years in prison had institutionalised him; that all decision-making
powers had been stripped from him during his time in prison. He did not have
the social skills or the networking skills to seek accommodation. He did not
even know where to seek accommodation. 172. It
was then accepted that he had a priority need for accommodation as he was institutionalised
and had not lived in the community for a long time. His application was refused
again on the grounds that he was intentionally homeless. It was stated that
his homelessness was due to the fact that he had committed an offence that led to his
being imprisoned. The Housing Executive deemed that it was therefore
his fault. 173. However,
because he was living at his parents' address and not at his own address or
at a tenancy in his own name, the intentionality test should not have been applied.
We had to challenge and to mount an appeal on each of those points. It took
a substantial time, as we had to approach the district manager and eventually
the head of client services. Such delay causes frustration. The ex-prisoner feels that
he is playing his part and doing what his probation officer advised him, and yet he seems to
meet only obstacles in his way. 174. Mr Hamilton: How should the legislation address the problems
of persons who have served a prison sentence being classed as intentionally homeless? 175. Mr McMullan: The present legislation should
be applied properly
for a start. Interpretation, application and guidance on the legislation
should be clearer. There is much inconsistency in the district offices across
Northern Ireland. We should lobby the Housing Executive forcefully on this
matter to raise its awareness. 176. Mr ONeill: Do you have specific ideas
on what you would like? 177. Mr McMullan: I have not been asked that
question before. I would have to go back to my team to get a response. 178. Mr Conway: We want the intentionality stipulation to be dropped in any homelessness
legislation, as few of the people with whom we deal believe that they make
themselves intentionally homeless by committing a crime - that is not how it works. Tackling homelessness
in a co-ordinated and effective manner will reduce crime and therefore the number
of victims of crime. If homelessness is not reduced the crime rate will not
be reduced. Removing the intentionality element would make things much easier
for those who are trying to engage in resettlement. 179. Mr Hamilton: Would you like to see it enshrined to exempt
this category? 180. Mr Conway: Yes. 181. Mr B Hutchinson: Do you agree with the statutory definition
of homelessness, or should it be redefined? 182. Mr Conway: What do you mean by the "statutory definition
of homeless"? 183. Mr B Hutchinson: I mean the definition
that the Housing Executive applies to applicants. 184. Mr Conway: We are constantly having tussles
with the Housing Executive over people who leave their home because they have
committed a crime or they because they have been threatened. A police report to the
Housing Executive that a person's lifestyle led to his present situation does
not aid in his resettlement. Homelessness must be addressed upfront. 185. Mrs McLean: The Housing Executive is referring
to people whom it registers and who meet the criteria. There is a big hidden
homelessness problem that does not come under the definitions, and it is not
being dealt with. Many people do not register as homeless; their circumstances
may have changed; they may have been knocked back before and they just move
around. That applies to young people who know that their chances of getting
accommodation are very poor, particularly in the area to which they are limiting
themselves. They may be too young to be considered as tenants without the support
of social services aftercare personnel to allow a tenancy to be agreed. There
is a section of young people who move from house to house, and even when they
are offered the opportunity to go into a self-referral hostel they may be afraid
to leave their area. They may also be unattracted to the idea of living by
the rules of a hostel that can only function with rules that forbid drinking
or taking drink into the hostel and which closes its doors at certain times. 186. There
are supported lodgings that have been geared up for young people leaving care.
We want to look at the accommodation needs of those 17 to 21-year-olds and use support that
is not hostels and is not independent. We want something new and different tied
in with many other resources such as training and employment. 187. Mr McMullan: Ex-prisoners or ex-offenders
who are looking for private sector accommodation face obstacles in getting a
deposit or rent in advance. Regardless of the legislation, when they apply to
the Housing Executive, it all boils down to availability - demand and supply. If no
Housing Executive accommodation is available, it does not matter what
legislation is made because there will still be homeless people. The simple
solution is to build new Housing Executive accommodation. 188. Mr B Hutchinson: It is not as simple as
that. You mentioned that 40% of the homeless people in England and Wales were
ex-offenders. Do you know the current figures for Northern Ireland? 189. Mrs McLean: I said that 40% of people
coming out of custody
were homeless, not 40% of the homeless population. I do not have that
figure, but the Housing Executive may know. That has not been properly measured
in Northern Ireland, and the focus on those kinds of issues is only beginning
to take hold. 190. Mr B Hutchinson: Mr ONeill made the point
that we need to identify the types of people who end up homeless. If there is
a large percentage of homeless people, tweaking or changing the legislation
may be able to reduce that. 191. Sir John Gorman: I reminded the Minister
for Social Development in a supplementary question on 5 February of the 12,600
homeless people in Northern Ireland last year. That is the highest rate in the
UK. I noticed that your 11 recommendations, which all seem sensible to me, do
not include those at the end of your submission. Those further recommendations
state that the real strategic requirement is that there should be a substantial
provision of houses that are "decent and affordable". Is that not the key for
the future, regardless of the Housing Executive? The Housing Executive's difficulty
is that it does not have houses at its disposal. 192. Mr Conway: We have direct experience in
assisting the running
of self-build projects for ex-prisoners. That was a practical scheme. 193. Sir John Gorman: I was responsible for
that. 194. Mr Conway: Yes. That project never really
took off because the main problem was raising capital to buy the materials.
However, we felt that ex-prisoners were interested in the scheme, especially those who were
politically motivated. They carried out refurbishments as well as new
self-builds. People came out of prison, received training through the Construction
Industry Training Board (CITB) and built accommodation. In one case six houses were
successfully built from scratch. That was an excellent project. 195. Sir John Gorman: Was that the project
in Downpatrick? 196. Mr Conway: No, it was on the Suffolk Road
in west Belfast. The model provides a practical example of how that idea could
work, and the concept of self-build could be introduced for ordinary ex-prisoners. The main
problem was capitalisation of materials; individuals and groups were unable
to borrow or raise the money needed for materials. They would then provide their own sweat equity
to build accommodation. That idea is worth revisiting. The project is
continuing through the Open Door Housing Association. 197. Sir John Gorman: That is an excellent
example of an area in which the private sector could come in. I know the public
sector intervened in the shape of the Housing Executive, for I was the one who
gave them the money. The private sector would not touch it, but things have
now changed. 198. Mr O'Connor: Many housing issues are connected
with the issue of offenders. A prisoner that leaves jail is more likely to claim
income support or some other benefit. As you rightly say, housing benefit for
a single man or woman is not sufficient to allow private-sector renting. It
is a vicious circle; how does one break it? The Simon Community has operated
a rent guarantee scheme for young homeless people. Can you
envisage something like that playing a constructive role? We have had
funding for prisoners' groups, but many of them tend to focus on former Republican
or Loyalist inmates rather than prisoners in general. Can something be done
to guarantee that rent be paid for a certain time to give the person a chance
to get back on his
or her feet, back into work and properly rehabilitated back into the
community? 199. My
second question concerns sex offenders. 'The News of the World' caused hysteria
by sensationally printing their names and photographs. People are afraid to
send their children to local swimming pools because they believe paedophiles
are around every corner. Your report says that "Resources
are required to provide a menu of purpose built housing for sex offenders including
a mix of independent and supported accommodation with a package of supervision,
treatment and care as directed. Information, education and support on the issue
of sex offenders should continue to dispel the hype and myth reported in the
media." 200. That
is fair enough, but if a unit is created for six or 10 ex-offenders, will that
not also create a focus for a great deal of community strife? People must be rehabilitated,
but a community may be angered by the housing of such people together. What
is your view? 201. Mrs McLean: We do not promote the view
that sex offenders should be housed in groups. We need a range of accommodation
for those leaving custody, which includes sex offenders, but that is not to
say that sex offenders
or any type of offender should be grouped together in that manner. Reintegration
and resettlement are about people linking back into the community, and we
are examining ways of supporting isolated individuals through mentoring
and volunteering to help them feel connected with the community. 202. I
acknowledge your points about hysteria and the pressure people are under to
respond negatively if they are aware that a sex offender is living in their community. We wish to encourage public
debate about communities managing risk. They should discuss and deal
with such issues as part and parcel of any changes to accommodation. 203. Mr O'Connor: It may be unfair to ask,
but we have people in Northern Ireland who are classed as NIMBYs - not in my backyard.
All those ideas are great on paper and sound well when you say them,
but are you prepared to put your money where your mouth is? 204. Mrs McLean: Through our involvement in
communities we have gone out and talked to people about particular situations
that they have faced. 205. Mr O'Connor: Would you be happy to have
a convicted paedophile living next door to you? How do we educate the public?
We have a duty to rehabilitate offenders, but we also have a duty to protect
the public. How do we manage both? 206. Mrs McLean: The situation is a difficult
one, and it is why the main statutory social services, the Probation Board and
the police are working together closely, under new arrangements, to assess and
manage risk. There are different views about how much the public can know at
any time. However, I am not going to address those views here. I will say that
the public debate
needs to look at differences among sex offenders, and differences among
types of risk. Communities also need to be encouraged to know more about child
protection, and not to assume that people who have had convictions and gone
through the courts system are the only people that present risk. 207. Mr Conway: I shall deal first of all with
Mr O'Connor's question about a paedophile living next door to me. There might
be. There are over 350 people on the sex offenders' register and you can be guaranteed
that those were adjudicated. They are people who have been caught. There are
many more that we cannot put a figure on. As Mrs McLean says, the most important
thing is to protect the vulnerable - our children. That is what drives everything,
and everyone, whether in the community sector, the voluntary sector or in the
statutory agencies, understands that the issue is one of risk management. 208. I
will re-emphasise to the Committee that homelessness, especially from a crime
prevention and crime reduction point of view, must be addressed in an upfront
way. Not to address it causes crime. If we let the situation continue, people
will still be homeless. However, employment, training, jobs and finance are
also important factors. 209. Mr O'Connor: Do you suggest some sort
of rent guarantee scheme? Who would administer that or take responsibility for
it? 210. Mrs McLean: We have already talked to
the Simon Community about that. 211. Mr O'Connor: They will not take certain scheduled offenders. 212. Mrs McLean: That is correct. We may be
able to develop that as part of our resettlement strategy. It is very much on
our agenda. 213. Mr Conway: If the principle were established
it does not really
matter who administers it. If it gets people into half-decent accommodation
so that homelessness ceases to be a problem, we can begin to address other matters. 214. The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you very much for
your time. We look forward to working with you on this issue as we develop our
recommendations. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Tuesday 12 February 2002 Members present: Mr Cobain (Chairperson) Ms Gildernew (Deputy Chairperson) Sir John Gorman Mr B Hutchinson Mr O'Connor Mr ONeill Mr M Robinson Mr Tierney Mr S Wilson Witnesses: Mrs A Burgham
) Chartered Institute of
Housing Mr K Walsh ) in Northern Ireland Mr D Fotheringham
) Chartered Institute of
Housing 215. The Chairperson: As part of our inquiry
into homelessness, the Committee welcomes Mr Kieran Walsh and Mrs Adele Burgham
from the Chartered Institute of Housing in Northern Ireland, and Mr David Fotheringham
from the Chartered Institute of Housing head office. 216. Mr Walsh: I want to begin by thanking
the Chairperson for participating in our launch of Lifetime Homes last Monday,
and other Committee members who attended. I particularly thank Mr ONeill who
accompanied some of those who had arrived from England on their first visit
to Northern Ireland and was able to show them around the Assembly. We are very
grateful for that. 217. The
homelessness review is timely, not least with the tragic loss of life in the
Morning Star hostel last night. The hostel catered for a particular client group,
and no doubt media coverage will reinforce the misconceptions of many that
a stereotypical homeless person is a down and out, itinerant, alcoholic or drug
addict. The real
image of a homeless person in Northern Ireland is more accurately a single
person who has fallen
out with his or her family, or a young mother with a child who has suffered
a relationship breakdown. 218. Proposals
in the forthcoming legislation appear to be passive, and are simply an opportunity
to correct some of the anomalies in current legislation in the rest of the UK.
For example, someone from Northern Ireland presenting themselves as homeless
in England can be deemed not to be homeless because he or she has accommodation
in Northern Ireland. However, someone from England presenting as homeless in
Northern Ireland is deemed to be homeless because that person is not legally
entitled to occupy a residence in Northern Ireland. The statutory test of homelessness
is that someone is deemed to be homeless if he or she is not legally entitled
to occupy any accommodation, or that he or she is legally entitled to occupy
accommodation but cannot do so, or that is no longer reasonable for them to
continue residing in that accommodation. This test does not always mean that
the applicant is on the streets. Someone who is likely to become homeless within
four weeks is equally deemed to be homeless. 219. Having
satisfied the single test of homelessness, an applicant must fall into a specific
category of priority need, and must not be deemed to have made himself intentionally
homeless by an act or an omission. If an applicant fails any of those three
tests there is a range of duties imposed on the Housing Executive by current
legislation. They include no duty if the person is not homeless, a duty to only
provide advice and assistance, a duty to provide temporary accommodation, a
duty to provide temporary accommodation only for a reasonable time, a duty
to provide temporary
accommodation until permanently rehoused, and a duty to protect the personal
belongings of the individuals. In Northern Ireland, the length of time that
a homeless person is likely to remain in temporary accommodation will depend on the demands for rehousing
in areas where that person wishes to live. That can range from a few days to
many months. The temporary accommodation needs of homeless people are met by
a combination of Housing Executive hostels, voluntary sector hostels and bed
and breakfasts. As you know, the Housing Executive is carrying out its own review
of homelessness services,
and we welcome the opportunity to contribute to that. 220. What
are the current issues here and in the rest of the UK? Valuable lessons can
be learnt from developments elsewhere in the UK, and consideration should be given to adopting some
of those initiatives in Northern Ireland. My colleague David Forthingham,
the head of policy in our head office in Coventry, will inform the Committee
on legislative proposals, new legislation and Government initiatives and taskforces
that have been established in England, Scotland and Wales to tackle the causes
and effects of homelessness. He will set out the context of those developments in the rest of
the UK. Adele Burgham will highlight the main points of our submission
as part of this review. 221. Mr Fotheringhan: I am from the institute's
office in Coventry. I know that you are interested in looking at how homelessness
is being tackled in other parts of the United Kingdom, so I will talk mainly about
the new Homelessness Bill, which is passing through Westminster and should be
implemented soon. 222. Tackling
homelessness is becoming a more important political priority for the Westminster
Government. They are sensitive about the fact that the numbers of homeless families
and the use of temporary accommodation have rocketed since they came to power,
particularly in the
south-east and south-west of England and in London. The main problem
there is a lack of affordable
housing, as there have been dramatic increases in house prices, and development
is expensive due to increasing land prices and labour costs. The institute has
reminded the Government that even in parts of the country where is there is
no shortage of affordable housing, there are still problems with homelessness
because of factors such as anti-social behaviour, harassment, drug use, domestic
and financial problems. That means that prevention and support are particularly
important. We expect
that those causes of homelessness will be addressed in the National Homelessness
Strategy, which
the Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions is working
on. 223. When
the current Labour Government came into office, their most high profile initiative on homelessness
was the rough sleepers' unit (RSU). However, now that this unit has met most of
its targets, the focus is shifting to mainstream homeless people who
are not out on the streets, but who are nevertheless in unsatisfactory temporary
accommodation - sleeping on friends' floors or whatever. The Government has
established a new unit to try to reduce the extensive use of bed and breakfast
hotels in some of the high demand areas, particularly the London boroughs and
some seaside authorities. Everybody recognises that those hotels are bad news, particularly for
families with young children. Work on the new bed and breakfast unit will complement
the work on rough sleepers, and both will be brought together in a new homelessness
directorate in the Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions.
That directorate is designed to pull together the different aspects of the Governments'
work on homelessness, and have overall responsibility for implementing the National
Homelessness Strategy. I know that the Housing Executive
leads on homelessness here, but in the rest of the United Kingdom local
authorities have
the main legal responsibility for dealing with homelessness, although with stock transfer
housing associations play a growing role in meeting the needs of homeless
people by giving them accommodation and support. 224. In
a way the new Homelessness Bill takes the legislation on homelessness in England
and Wales full circle. The Housing Act 1996 removed some of the protections for homeless
people, for example, they were entitled only to a temporary duty for
two years' accommodation
rather than enjoying access to permanent accommodation as they had before. The new Bill
brings back the requirement to provide permanent housing for homeless
people in priority need, and in that way it returns to the pre-1996 situation
and is broadly in line with the position in Northern Ireland. It also goes much
further than that. For example, it strengthens duties on housing advice, gives
local authorities more flexibility over their letting schemes, and allows for the introduction
of choice-based lettings. The priority need categories will be extended to include
those aged 16 and 17, care leavers up to the age of 21, people who are vulnerable
as a result of violence, and those vulnerable due to an institutionalised background.
However, some groups of single people are classed as non-priority under the
legislation. The Scottish Executive have gone one stage further
with the Housing (Scotland) Act 2001 under which even non-priority homeless
households will be entitled to temporary accommodation. 225. The
most significant change in the Homeless Bill is that local authorities are required to carry out reviews
of homelessness in their areas. For example, they will need to identify trends
in homelessness, and look at local available resources that can be used to deal
with the problem. From those reviews they can produce a homelessness strategy.
The idea is to move away from a firefighting type of approach, in which dealing
with homelessness starts when a homeless family comes through
the door, and be much more strategic - bringing about measures to prevent
homelessness happening. There is a legal requirement for social services to
be involved in the process,
and it is also expected that housing associations and the voluntary sector
will be involved in these reviews, and with the implementation of strategies. 226. During
the drafting of the Bill, there was extensive consultation with people involved in housing.
This included the
establishment of a homelessness sounding board by the Department of Transport,
Local Government and the Regions, on which the Chartered Institute of Housing
(CIH) and other main national housing organisations were represented. A lot
of ideas, which eventually ended up in the Bill, were thrashed out at meetings
of that board. A homelessness task force is being set up in Scotland. Task groups
in Wales looked at issues such as letting and homelessness, and their research
fed into a national housing strategy for Wales. The Homelessness Bill could
be implemented as early as May, and local authorities would be
required to produce their first homelessness strategies by the following
May. 227. The
institute has been involved with setting up six seminars with the Department
of Transport, Local Government and the Regions in different parts of England,
which will help housing professionals get to grips with what the Act means for
their homelessness services.
We are expecting an updated code of guidance from the Government to accompany
the Act, which is sorely needed because the current code is very out of date. That
would really help housing workers to implement the legislation. 228. The
Government were keen on choice-based letting in their Green Paper on housing. They are funding
27 pilot schemes to be developed by local authorities across England, both in
areas of high and low demand. Most are based around the Delft model - so called
because it is based on schemes that are common in the Netherlands. The basic
idea is to move away from the current situation where housing officers allocate
homes based on a professional judgement about what people need,
and move to a position where available properties are advertised in free
newspapers or on the Internet. Applicants select properties, and submit coupons
to indicate those
that they are interested in. Given the history of housing, and issues
around discrimination in the Province, I suspect that there would be concerns
about such an approach here. 229. There
are concerns about choice-based letting on the mainland, such as how vulnerable
people would fair under such a system. Those are the things that the Department
of Transport, Local Government and the Region's pilot schemes are designed to
evaluate, in conjunction with an intensive research evaluation programme. The
institute has researched some of the new ideas, and I have reports that I would
be happy for the Committee to look at. 230. Mrs Burgham: Homelessness is a significant
problem in Northern Ireland. Last year, Housing Executive figures indicated
that almost 13,000 households presented as homeless. That is an increase
on previous years, where the numbers fluctuated between 10,000 and 11,000. The
worrying thing is that this figure does not reveal the full extent of homelessness.
It only records the people who physically presented themselves to, or telephoned,
the Housing Executive. That means that there is considerable hidden homelessness
in the Province, the extent of which is difficult to judge. 231. The
hidden homeless includes people who are staying with relatives or friends because
they have nowhere else to go, and those who are sleeping rough. Importantly,
a significant number of those who have presented to the Housing Executive are single -
almost 50%. That generally means that they do not qualify for assistance
with accommodation because they do not meet the priority need category. Therefore, those people
face difficulty in finding their own accommodation, and that is why they are
often forced to stay with friends or family in overcrowded or unsuitable accommodation.
They may find it difficult to afford their own accommodation, and there are
high waiting lists for social housing. 232. We
have compiled a list, which is included in our submission, of issues that we
would like the Housing Executive to highlight, but not necessarily change. The
changes that the institute would like to emerge include the introduction of
a homelessness strategy, including details of how homelessness will be tackled,
as the Housing Executive
will be required to review homelessness on a local level. This will require
the introduction of a target for reducing homelessness. Rather than just acknowledging
the level, there will be a target to reach as a performance measure. We should
look at the possibility of extending the priority league categories to include
other vulnerable groups such as 16- and 17-year-olds, which is currently
being looked at elsewhere. There is a need for a greater emphasis on
prevention, which requires research into the issues behind homelessness and
repeat homelessness. We need a greater focus on advice and assistance to prevent
homelessness occurring in the first place, a reduction in the use of bed-and-breakfast accommodation,
and an authoritative code of guidance for housing officers to refer to for
clarity. 233. The
Homelessness Bill will introduce a power, but not a duty, to secure accommodation
for homeless people who do not have a priority need, and that will address some
of the current issues with single people who are homeless. There is a greater
need for more tenancy support services, as some people are falling into repeat
cycles of homelessness because they do not know how to manage on their own.
We need greater research into homelessness, looking at initiatives elsewhere
for tackling that. Housing policies such as the right to buy, rural housing
strategies, supporting people and sustainability all have an effect on homelessness
in one way or another. As Mr Fotheringham suggested, the Housing Executive
could pilot some choice-based letting schemes in areas where it would be suitable. 234. Mr Walsh: I would like to conclude by welcoming this opportunity
to address the Committee, and to articulate the principle recommendations in
our report. We are pleased that the Committee has embarked on this process of
consultation. It will assist in the consideration of the proposed legislation
to develop a more
strategic approach to homelessness, and to underpin future services for
the most vulnerable people in our community. Members have recognised this challenge,
and you can be assured
of our continued support and co-operation in developing coherent policies
to help shape the future. We commend our recommendations to you. 235. Mr ONeill: It is appropriate to mention
Mr Walsh's comments about the disaster at the Morning Star hostel last night
and communicate our sympathy and support for them. The proposed legislation is timely for this complex issue. Mr
Walsh described the proposed legislation as passive, and in doing so
I assume that he is talking specifically about responsibilities such as creating
a power, and not a duty, to deal with homelessness and other aspects that have
been indicated in today's presentation. 236. However,
how can we ensure that more rigour is put into our legislation? Is the legislation
in England, which Mr Fotheringham described, sufficient, and is it suitable
for us? Do we need more than legislation, as sometimes we can make a law without
delivering a service? How do we get that wholeness into homelessness, which
has been missing in the past, and bring a central, driven approach so that we
can encompass all of the various problems? What is your view on that? 237. Mr Walsh: You are right about the suggestion about the passive approach.
The proposed legislation - and we have suggested this to the Committee before
- when it comes before the Assembly, or wherever it is at present, is simply
to dot the i's and cross the t's on changes that were proposed, and in the offing,
in 1996. It is trying to catch up with the situation that was primarily developing
in England at that time. The situation has moved on considerably since then,
which has lead to the various pieces of legislation that are being proposed
in other parts of the UK. It appears that these are still trying to
catch up - getting legislation on the statute book to correct some of
the anomalies that existed in 1996. However, we do not necessarily have the
consultation mechanisms or processes to allow the strategic debate to take place
openly and transparently, bringing the various players together to ensure that
a more strategic approach to homelessness is adopted. 238. There
is a very important element to the process that this Committee has embarked
on as part of that review. However, my opinion is that the Committee for Social Development, when
it is presented with legislation, will not have not allowed the various
groups that have an impact on developing and shaping the future to come together to present
their proposals. The Committee's difficulty is that it is dealing with the particular
interests of specific groups, and people coming before it are talking
about their own little niche of homelessness. The Committee has to balance and
arbitrate between those competing demands. 239. Several things are happening in other parts of the United
Kingdom. The task forces and time-focussed groups, which have been established
in Wales and Scotland, are useful examples that we could use. There are some
strategic changes. In Wales they are making 16-year-olds, and people aged over
16, an automatic priority need, and that is an important development for tackling
youth homelessness, and an important part of the overall strategy of how to
develop measures to prevent homelessness. 240. We have not so far detailed how we should educate our young
people about what they should do when they are homeless. The reason the majority
of single people become homeless is because they have a fall-out at home. They
then look to family or friends for accommodation, or they end up sleeping on
a floor somewhere. A reason for that is that they do not know where to go for
the help and assistance they need. Those young people, who are the most vulnerable,
are presenting to the Housing Executive, which tells them that, even though
they are homeless, they do not fall into a priority need category, and, therefore,
it has no responsibility to provide temporary accommodation for them. The Housing
Executive simply refers them to a self-referral hostel run by a voluntary group,
such as the Simon Community, to see if they can meet the competing demands of
other young homeless people to get a bed for the night. If there was a statutory
requirement on the Housing Executive to provide
young people with a safe and settled place where they could tackle their
family trauma, that would give them the space required and provide the support
services already highlighted by Mrs Burgham. 241. Mrs Burgham: There are three points that would be worth looking at. The
first is the homelessness strategy, which is actually set out. However, it must
be reviewed to clearly
show how it is going to be addressed, and that would give more rigour to any means of
tackling homelessness.
Secondly, I would suggest an authoritative code of guidance. At the moment
there is a code of interpretation, and that is open to people to use if they
wish. In England
it is much more firm - although their code of guidance needs updating
- and people right across the country can look at it for clarification on how they
should deal with a particular issue. 242. Finally,
and most importantly, there is a statutory duty towards the prevention of homelessness in England.
Local authorities there are required to give advice and, if necessary, intercede on
behalf of a potentially homeless person. Someone getting involved earlier to help people
sort out rent arrears or whatever, would certainly help, and if that were on
a statutory footing it could even prevent cases arising. 243. Mr ONeill: When you talk about that strategy,
are you talking about what is included in the English legislation, where there
is a review, an identification of trends and resources, and then the strategy
- that oneness in approach? Is that what you mean when you talk about the homeless
strategy here, and how can that be included in legislation or in practice? 244. Mr Fotheringham: The Homelessness Bill
states that local authorities are required to undertake those reviews and involve
social services. It covers the main points that should be included in their
strategies, and some of the things that I mentioned. They are required to produce
their first review within 12 months of enactment, and at least every 5 years
afterwards. That can be clearly set out in legislation. 245. Mr O'Connor: I am interested in seeing
an overarching strategy
to deal with the situation, tied in with both health and social services
and, where necessary, the Department for Social Development. We must have a strategy to support the homeless.
Quite often these people cannot get access to healthcare. How do we eliminate
homelessness? Is it good enough to have a strategy to deal with it, or do we need
one to eliminate it? What sort of realistic timetable should we set ourselves
to tackle this growing problem in Northern Ireland, which rose 20% last year?
There will always be people presenting themselves as homeless owing to individual
circumstances, but there are currently some who have been in hostels up to
three years waiting for accommodation in parts of north and west Belfast, which
is wholly unacceptable. What sort of targets should we set to eliminate long-term
homelessness? Obviously we cannot do it overnight. What is happening in Scotland,
where there is a duty to provide a strategy? 246. Mr Walsh: I agree that there should be targets. If you are to have a strategic
approach, you need something to measure its success and outcomes. We need to
analyse our starting point. Mrs Burgham has presented the current figures. Thirteen
thousand households presented as homeless last year - a 20% increase
on the recent average, which has been 10,000 to 11,000. We must analyse where
those increases have been concentrated. It is a fact that nearly half of that
number is made up of single
people. We must examine how we can best advise our young people, through
the school system, about where they can go for assistance before the trauma
of homelessness happens to them. We cannot say that homelessness will be alleviated, because someone
going home
tonight could become involved in a family situation, and they may find
that the only safe thing they can do is extricate themselves from that difficult
situation. We need a safety net to ensure that they are able to find accommodation
to allow them to deal with that trauma and, if necessary, be rehoused. 247. We also need
adequate, safe and properly resourced hostels
and other self-contained accommodation to deal with those who find themselves
homeless. We must reduce the reliance on bed and breakfast. If you examine Northern Ireland,
you will see the large number of bed spaces in Housing Executive hostels
tend to be around
Belfast. Voluntary groups also tend to be based in that area. However,
if you are homeless in Enniskillen or Newry, you are more likely to have to
rely on bed and breakfast than on the support services that may be provided
through the work of a voluntary group or the Housing Executive. 248. It is important to have strategic targets as part of the overall
approach, but no one should be beat with a big stick if they do not achieve
those targets. We need to use the targets as a lead-in to dealing with overall
measures to prevent
homelessness and any crisis situation that may occur. 249. Mr O'Connor: Section 9 of the Housing (Scotland)
Act 2001 states "An
applicant for housing held by a local authority or a registered social landlord
is entitled to be admitted to a housing list unless the applicant is under 16 years of age." 250. That
is not currently the situation in Northern Ireland for young homeless people.
What type of provision should we examine to deal with the problem? 251. Mr Walsh: I shall draw a distinction. The Housing
(Scotland) Act 2001 suggests that a 16-year-old is able to appear on the waiting
list. However, the Scots have not gone as far as the Welsh, who have determined that a 16-year-old
is in priority need. The Scottish legislation simply allows a 16-year-old to apply for accommodation,
meaning the person would not be precluded from doing so. The selection scheme
previously operating in Northern Ireland precluded anyone under the age of 18
from applying. That was because it is the age of majority, meaning you could
not enter into a legally enforceable contract without a guarantor unless you
were old enough. The common selection scheme introduced in Northern Ireland
addressed that situation. 252. In
Wales, the legislation has been extended to 16-and 17-year-olds, who were not
previously covered by the legislation. Under the Children's Act 1989, it is
not the responsibility of the housing authority, but social services to provide
safe accommodation. Welsh legislation now states that 16-year-olds are automatically in priority
need. They are not a current priority need category in Scotland or, indeed,
in Northern Ireland. Evaluating the number of single people aged between 16
and 17, who have thus far dropped out of the homeless system operated by the
Housing Executive as part of the 50% young singles, would be a consequence of
extending the age range. 253. Mr O'Connor: The South and East Belfast
Trust has an arrangement with the Housing Executive where every 16-and 17-year-old
who presents himself or herself as homeless is a child in need. 254. Mr Walsh: That applies to children coming
out of care. 255. Mr O'Connor: There is scope to extend
that. Where does the extra money come from for the Department for Social Development to fund and support
all those children, as it cannot come from housing benefit alone? 256. Mr Walsh: No. The Member will be well aware that from April next year
housing benefit, because it is a UK-wide benefit, will only fund bricks and
mortar. They are sizing the pot for the level of services to provide the level of care
and support services and housing management services needed to support
people. We must decide
and, with the greatest respect, the Committee must decide on the priority
spend categories within its particular remit and within the Assembly to determine
those key priorities. Our young people, who are the most vulnerable, could and
should be a priority. 257. Ms Gildernew: My question relates to that.
I am glad that you believe that young people should be a priority, because there
is a lack of understanding of young people's needs, here - especially of young people
leaving care or young people who find themselves homeless. The laissez-faire
attitude of the Housing Executive in not allowing them onto a waiting list until
they are 18 years old is intolerable. 258. I
am particularly interested in rural homelessness and homeless women. There are
very few bed spaces for women who have nowhere to go. When Women's Aid in Enniskillen closed
down, there were no bed spaces in County Fermanagh for homeless women. The situation
is nearly as bad elsewhere. What recommendations can you make on that? 259. Rurally, there is a lack of affordable housing
and insufficient social housing. In a rural community, the local office might
be 10 or 15 miles away and it would be hard enough to even get there to present
yourself as homeless.
People often go to a friend or relative because they know that they will
not get on to waiting lists and that they will not be treated as a priority need. Compared to the
amount of homeless people, £13,000 is a modest figure. 260. Your
paper examined practices across England, Scotland and Wales. Have you looked at any of the best
practices in the 26 counties? Although we can look at best practices in other
places and adopt the best aspects out of them, the situation in my constituency
is much more closely related to that in the 26 counties than to the experience
of England or Wales. You said that the Committee has a responsibility to ensure
that priorities are
clear. We will try to do that. I hope that the Minister will take on
board the Committee's recommendations, because supporting people will be of
huge importance to the most vulnerable in our society. Homelessness has increased
by 20% this year, and could increase substantially next year. 261. Mr Walsh: First, I do not share your view
that the Housing Executive adopts a laissez-faire attitude in its implementation
of this. The Housing Executive is constrained by the legislative requirements
that it must comply with. Therefore, it only carries out policies. It would
not be fair to challenge the professionalism of the Housing Executive staff
who process homelessness applications, man the hostels or who deal with the
homeless clients whom they must place. 262. I
share your concerns about rural homelessness, and as part of past reviews of
rural housing, we have commented on the difficulties for homeless people in
rural locations. People in Enniskillen and elsewhere are victims to the same
extent and for the same reasons as homeless people in Belfast. In Belfast there
is a supply of temporary accommodation, so people can at least look at alternatives.
Those alternatives mean that the family can keep their support network, and
the children can attend the same schools so that the disruption and trauma of
homelessness can at least be reduced. I am not trying to understate that trauma
in any way, but it can be reduced. 263. In
rural locations people are invariably asked to move to bed and breakfasts that might be 20 miles
away and where
they will be far from their extended families, schools and the networks
that they have grown up with. Therefore temporary accommodation becomes the
worst option, and the family must go to a relative to relieve their trauma. 264. It
is unfeasible for the Housing Executive or voluntary organisations to build
hotels everywhere, but the existing stock must be used creatively through better
use of the private rented sector and various other lettings. It is also important
that no applicant, homeless person or family should be disadvantaged because
they have found their own temporary accommodation. The legislation does allow that
to happen. The circumstances that led to their homelessness, rather than
the fact that they have found their own temporary accommodation, should be evaluated. If someone
has been disadvantaged because they have moved in with a family or friend,
even if it is deemed that they have been reasonably re-housed by moving back
in with their mother who is in a three-bedroomed house where all the children
have a bed, they should not be assessed as being properly accommodated. If that
were their situation, I feel that the local district manager would be keen to
ensure that it was assessed properly. 265. We
have compared our developments with those in England, Scotland and Wales. When
the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988 came into effect - and I declare an
interest here - I was assistant district manager in the homeless unit in the
Housing Executive which
was established in 1989. Therefore I was actually involved in many of
the things that I am talking about. People could point to me and say that in
some way I had my fingerprints on many of the difficulties that have been highlighted.
Before 1989, social services were responsible for temporary accommodation, and
the Housing Executive's statutory duty was only to those people who were seeking
to be permanently re-housed. If a homeless person or family came to the local
Housing Executive district office, they were told that they had to go to social
services if they wanted temporary accommodation. Social services then had to
look at their temporary accommodation needs, and the Housing
Executive took the case and did the assessment once the person or family had been temporarily
re-housed. 266. Things
have improved considerably, in that the Housing Executive is now solely responsible
for temporary and permanent allocations. In the Republic of Ireland they have
not got to the stage where those are accepted as being the same. The other disadvantage
in how local authorities are set up in the Republic of Ireland is that there
is no proper career structure for housing officers. Somebody who works today in a
housing office
could be working in agriculture tomorrow and in economic development next
year. The workers have skills, developed through training, that enable them
to deal with the sensitivities
and trauma of homelessness for a short time, and they are then promoted
out of the housing department to another area of social policy. We lack the continuity that allows
for the development of a long-term approach that will successfully tackle the problems of homelessness
throughout Ireland. 267. Sir John Gorman: I must declare an interest
because I have been
a member of the Chartered Institute of Housing for more years than I
care to remember, so I am extremely sympathetic to its views. Last week I asked
the Minister for Social Development, Nigel Dodds, a supplementary question
in which I pointed out that there were 12,600 homeless presentations last year.
His reply was highly sympathetic to this, and it was by no means dismissive. However, he pointed out that
it is not solely the requirement of the Committee or the Department for Social Development
to look after this. There is a strong educational point to be made here, and
you made it yourselves.
The requirement for funding this, as opposed to other destinies of funds,
must be taken into account. 268. One
thing that depresses me is that 40% of these presentations for homelessness
come from young people. I have four children and nine grandchildren, and I know
what children are like. Children can get into a huff and say that they are not
going to put up with things - they are going to go. Then they phone the district
manager and say that they are homeless. If we take this to its logical conclusion,
must that not be an adverse housing situation - not a bad tempered grandfather
or father - but a housing situation? What proportion of people presenting as
homeless come from homes that are below the acceptable and affordable social
standard, which, in my day was the challenge and the objective of the Housing
Executive? In some ways we may be putting this requirement onto Rough Sleepers
Unit and other units which I see Lord Faulkner so interested in - he is a great
man for units of one sort or another. If we could see ourselves get back to
the days when the Housing Executive had a huge challenge to produce affordable
housing of good quality - the sort of housing we built then - would that have
an effect on the 40% of applicants who are looking now? 269. Mr Walsh: Yes. In response to Mr O'Connor's
question on the strategy, numbers and determining outcomes, one of the difficulties
and imponderables is that the adoption of a policy of duty to provide
temporary accommodation for 16-year-olds might increase the number of 16-year-olds
who are going to present. I understand that argument. 270. The other side is that those people present already. The difficulty
is that no one accepts responsibility for them. They present for accommodation
and seek help from the Housing Executive, where they are told that while the
Housing Executive accepts that they are homeless, it does not have a responsibility
to provide them with temporary accommodation. Therefore, they are
told to find out about a self-referral hostel. They are given a list of estate
agents to contact about renting temporarily, but they are not helped in their need. 271. We
have to turn 16 and 17-year-old people away, saying that we do not have a statutory
responsibility for them. We cannot formally refer them for temporary accommodation,
which may be the only respite that is needed for them to come to terms with
the significance of breakdown in the family, and might give them the space to
decide to go back into the family home again. 272. Many of those who present
themselves as homeless return home after a time, since in the intervening period they
have been able to deal with the trauma that has led to their situation. 273. Mr B Hutchinson: I was interested in what
you had to say about the hidden homeless, Mrs Burgham. You mentioned the figure
of 13,000, saying that it is probably be far greater but that you cannot quantify
its true extent. How do you define and identify the hidden homeless? Through
our scrutiny of the Bill before us, what can we do to eradicate the problem? 274. Mrs Burgham: People often tend to think
of the hidden homeless in stereotypes. Rough sleepers - people who might be
sleeping in doorways in large towns - are part of hidden homelessness, since
quite often they are aware from friends and others that, if they go to an authority
- whether in Northern Ireland or England - they will not be given priority.
For that reason they often do not even bother going along. 275. Elderly
people living with their families might not really want to be there, but circumstances give them
no choice. People leaving care are initially given assistance, but that gradually
wanes. When it stops, they cannot manage, and drop back into the cycle of repeat
homelessness. Sisters or brothers who cannot afford to buy property on their
own club together. When someone loses a job he has to sell his house and move
in with a sibling. All of those people will not necessarily go to a housing
authority and ask for help. Some do not know that they are entitled to assistance;
some know they will not be entitled. 276. I
should like to quantify those figures, but I do not know how anyone could ever give an accurate
picture of the hidden homeless. An estimate could be made by going through
all the different categories, but it would be a real challenge to identify them
fully. 277. I
mentioned that research is a key issue in addressing the problem. You must identify
the reasons behind homelessness. Social issues contribute greatly; tackling
those might eliminate the causes. There are many different reasons, and one
must research whether those behind homelessness and repeat homelessness are
the same. Would greater intervention help? Research is the key, and,
if you can start to examine those issues, you might be able to address the problem.
It will never be fully addressed, but, if people could make an effort, it would
certainly go some way towards doing so. 278. Mr B Hutchinson: So there is no single
thing we can put in the Bill which would address the problem? 279. Mr Fotheringham: The idea of homelessness
reviews would help. If the Executive were leading the review and had to consult
voluntary organisations and housing associations, dealing with all kinds of
different client groups and perhaps setting up focus groups among homeless people
in hostels, they would begin to understand the different causes of homelessness
and how they must be addressed. 280. Mr Walsh: The Simon Community produced
their report, showing that
they dealt with 1,200 different cases. However, over 4,000 people presented themselves
as homeless. The other 3,000-odd people had to go somewhere else. They
did not necessarily go to the Housing Executive, because they did not have the
status of priority need to be accommodated. This gives a tangible example of
the hidden homeless. 281. Mr S Wilson: I want to ask you about several
things in your presentation which caused me some concern. Thirteen thousand people
presented as homeless last year. How many of those were deemed homeless
under the current
definition? That is the more important statistic to us. 282. Through
my constituency work I can think of many people who present themselves as homeless
and who are not. Perhaps they are swinging the lead a bit to try and get up
the housing waiting list. 283. Rather than firefighting
once a person has become homeless, there should be some requirement to
prevent the problem happening in the first place. I hear of many people in poor
rented accommodation whose landlords become sick and tired of demands for repairs
and the like and - sometimes gladly - write to the tenants that the house will
be repossessed in three or six months' time. The landlord has no intention of doing
that, and the tenants are not really homeless from that point of view, but it
is a get-out for him if the tenant is being difficult with regard to repairs
or whatever. How can such situations be overcome? 284. There
is a duty to prevent homelessness. If a landlord wrote to a tenant to say that in three months
time he or she would be out of the house, would it require that person
to be rehoused? If so, how should that kind of abuse be stopped? 285. You
mentioned many things that should be done or included in the Bill, such as tenancy
support, having a power and not a duty, choice-based learning schemes, et cetera. Have you estimated
what additional resources would be necessary? There is no point in putting
something into legislation to find that the resources are not available. That
disappoints everyone. 286. I
am not happy with the situation concerning 16- or 17-year olds. I take some
of the points about temporary homelessness. However, you went further. Someone
said that going back to suitable accommodation in the family's house should not preclude anyone
from staying on the waiting list. That worries me a little. Social legislation
should not be designed to weaken families. Many of our social problems arise
because people left home, were given accommodation, were not really supervised,
could not deal with it and caused immense problems for neighbours. Does that
kind of proposal not provide a recipe for even more of that? 287. Mr Walsh: I am sorry if I have misled
you in relation to people who present as homeless and have a home. If it is
found that there is a statutory duty to provide temporary accommodation for
someone presenting as homeless who then returns home, that person is no longer homeless
and the case dies. If someone presents as homeless and is deemed to be
homeless, there is a temporary accommodation duty. If the person makes his or
her own temporary accommodation arrangements - returning, for example, to his
or her mother with
the children after a relationship breakdown - the fact that someone who
is homeless from one accommodation means that person is not assessed as now
living with a relative, the mother in our example. The assessment comes from
the cause, regardless of who else the person is living with. In that case, therefore, the person can make his or
her own temporary accommodation arrangements and still remain on the
list. 288. The
case is dropped regarding anyone - whether a young person or a family - who
leaves the family home, goes away, is put up but is then reconciled. 289. I
do not have the dropout figure for those who present as homeless but are deemed not to be homeless,
but it is included in the Housing Executive's review. The drop-out rate is not
very substantial. There are three hurdles to get over concerning homelessness.
The first is to determine if someone is homeless or if he or she is legally entitled to
occupy any property. If someone living in the family home has a row with
their mother who then revokes their licence to occupy, that person is still
legally entitled to occupy that property. However, that person is deemed to
be homeless if the mother tells him or her to get out. 290. The
second hurdle is priority need, and the third is intentionality - in other words,
whether someone is intentionally homeless because of something he or she has
or has not done. The statistical analysis shows that many people are deemed
to be homeless but then drop out. The largest category of dropout is through
failure to meet the criteria for priority need, and people do not get over that
hurdle primarily because they are young. 291. In relation to the private
rented sector, if someone arrived at the office with a letter from the
landlord telling them that they would be put out in three months, the Housing Executive's response
would be that the case would be assessed but that the person will not be deemed
to be homeless unless
he or she is actually homeless or is likely to become homeless within
28 days. That person could get advice and assistance about whether he or she
has a licence
or a lease, its terms, and whether the landlord was putting pressure
on the tenant. The environmental health section in any local council can take
action against any landlord who evicts someone illegally. 292. Realistically,
we recognise that if the landlord wants the tenant out and the tenant is happy
enough because he will be accommodated, it is the Housing Executive's duty to make
all reasonable enquiries to enable them to arrive at a decision. That
enquiry would mean talking to the landlord. If he says that he needs the tenant out because he
needs the property for himself, or it is the end of the lease, the Housing
Executive is powerless to insist that that person needed to stay to take appropriate
court action against the landlord for an illegal eviction. It has to deal with
the situation that it is presented with, and its duty is to carry out all necessary
enquiries to enable it to make a decision. That is what it endeavours to do. That
is why some cases of homelessness take longer than a month for a decision
to be arrived at because of the nature and extent of the enquiries that have
to be carried out. 293. Sir
John Gorman raised the question of funding. The funding for what we have suggested
has not yet been
costed. However, we have suggested to the Committee that the funding that comes into the
Assembly is in relation to the block grant allocation, rates and rent.
The Housing Executive used to be able to get the capital funding to do the building
that was required. That situation has changed. The reason for that change is
not because the housing associations had asked for it, or that anybody believed
that the housing associations could deliver the development programme
better than the Housing
Executive, but solely so that private moneys could be more easily accessed.
As a consequence of that, the consistent pattern of rent setting that we have
in Northern Ireland
is being slowly demolished, bit by bit. 294. We
have previously spoken to the Committee about the net loss through the right-to-buy
scheme, in which we are selling over 5,000 properties a year. The Housing Executive
is currently reviewing the right-to-buy scheme. There are over 10,000 new applications
because they are likely to be capping the right-to-buy scheme. The likelihood of
that, along with the replacement of less than 1,500 properties this year - perhaps even
as little
as 1,200 or 1,000 new properties - means that there will be a net loss
of 4,000 properties a year. 295. Surely,
as part of the review of public administration that the Assembly is to undertake,
the asset base of the Housing Executive could be used to access private moneys
to sort out the funding of various priorities. It cannot be done with the existing
resources of the Department for Social Development. More creative funding solutions
are required. 296. Sir John Gorman: I promise you, I did
not brief him. 297. Mr B Hutchinson: What is your opinion
of the effectiveness
of the current definition of homelessness? Would you redefine it, and
if so, how? 298. Mr Walsh: That is a difficult question,
Mr Hutchinson. We need to settle on something that we can all consistently apply.
Many people would say that the definition and the rules on homelessness disadvantage one particular
need group or another. We must decide what the definition is, and look at the
rules that allow people to be described in a way that makes them accessible
to certain duties. I am not that hung up on what a definition of why or what
a homeless person is. As far as I am concerned, if somebody - 299. Mr B Hutchinson: But do you think it is effective at present? 300. Mr Walsh: Yes. In my view it is. It allows
the assessment to
be made. It is not simply that someone has nowhere to go and is out on
the street sleeping rough. It may be that they have nowhere that they can legally
occupy. They may
have somewhere that they can legally occupy, but are not able to because
of a violent partner, or the revocation of the parent's licence, or because
of intimidation. If a person had presented in a local office two years ago to
be told, "You have a house up the Shankill Road", that would be totally unacceptable.
In such a case, there are good reasons not to return to the property that the individual
was legally entitled to occupy. 301. I
believe that the Housing Executive has administered the legislation before it,
along with the amendments to the Housing (Northern Ireland) Order 1988, in as
professional a manner as is possible. There have been constraints on what staff
would have liked to do; sometimes they were unable to act as they saw fit, because
the requirements were not there to deal with it. The most soul-destroying thing
for a professional housing officer to encounter is to turn a 17-year-old away
telling him that you cannot accommodate him and giving him a list of hostels,
when you do not know if he will have a bed for the night. They leave your door
and you do not know where they are likely to end up, what trouble they may get
into or under whose influence they may fall. 302. Ms Gildernew: I asked about the problem
of women and the lack of temporary accommodation, which you did not touch on.
Also, Mr Wilson made a point
about 16 and 17-year-olds who present themselves as homeless, and then find suitable temporary accommodation.
Are they still on the homelessness list if they go back to their family home?
The circumstances which caused them to leave in the first place could still
be at work. However, if they have nowhere else to go and it is a choice between
the street or going back home, are they taken off the waiting list? 303. Mr Walsh: If a 16 or 17-year-old presents
to the local office
as homeless because of an argument at home - [Interruption]. 304. Ms Gildernew: Or abuse. 305. Mr Walsh: If something has happened to prevent that person
returning home that night, they can go to the local district office where they
are assessed. While that individual may be homeless, he may not meet the current
criteria for priority need and therefore there would not be a statutory responsibility
on the Housing Executive to provide temporary or permanent accommodation. When he found another
address he could be reassessed and pointed accordingly. However, under the existing
rules he would not be deemed as being in priority need. 306. Abuse
is a different category because it falls outside the remit of being determined
solely by a housing professional, and social services would have to become involved.
If a young person were to arrive in the homeless unit in Belfast and suggest
that there was abuse involved in his case, we would insist on the social services becoming
involved. Social services could explain that. The Executive would ensure
that the case was treated in utter confidentiality. We would not ask the family
or whoever if they were abusing the child. That case would be dealt with by
social services as that staff has experience in handling such cases. Therefore,
we would work jointly with another agency that has the professionals who can
deal with the needs of that individual. 307. If
a 17-year-old was put out of home after a row with his mother and he presented
as homeless, there would not be a duty to provide temporary accommodation for
him. Some of those people are the most vulnerable, and to say that the rules
do not allow us to provide temporary accommodation is not sufficient. If temporary accommodation was
provided but they patched up the differences and felt able to return
home, then they would be deemed to be no longer homeless, and the case would
be closed. I am making a distinction between someone who can return home because the matter
has been rectified, rather than being forced back home because there is no alternative.
That would not happen. 308. The woman's refuge you referred
to - and others - could not be sustained for financial reasons. The Committee
has already examined the Supporting People initiative. They will break
the rules down into a pot for the various services that are needed and the housing
benefit element of that. The departmental officials have discussed that with
the Committee, and the Minister has addressed it. There are some people who
will view this as
a threat to the level of services, but in April 2003 we will broadly
have the same level of resources. 309. The Chairperson: We cannot assume that.
You may assume that for 2003, but you cannot assume that for every year after
that. 310. Mr Walsh: That is exactly the point that
I was about to make.
In 2003 the pot will be sized to guarantee this level. We have to develop
the long-term strategy of how to meet need in various locations, including Women's
Aid refuges in some locations. That is why the strategic approach that
we suggest in our submission is not about a Northern Ireland strategy,
but a local strategy
to meet the needs of local people are homeless. The Supporting People
fund will broadly be the same resources for the same people in a different way, but the difficulty is that there
is nothing to say what that will be. 311. The Chairperson: I do not think it is
a simple as that either. There are three or four levels when dealing with homelessness,
including social services, education and legislation, and they all have a role
to play in this. Although we may be the lead Committee or lead Department, other Departments
also have responsibilities. We do not want to be left with issues, as
we were with others, such as the special purchase of evacuated dwellings (SPED)
scheme. The Committee is taking responsibility for an issue that is not ours,
as far as housing associations are concerned. Thank you. MINUTES OF EVIDENCE Thursday 14 February 2002 Members present: Mr Cobain (Chairperson) Ms Gildernew(Deputy Chairperson) Sir John Gorman Mr B Hutchinson Mr G Kelly Mr O'Connor Mr ONeill Mr M Robinson Mr Tierney Mr S Wilson Witnesses: Mr L Moffat ) Shelter Northern Ireland Mr R Cashell ) 312. The Chairperson: Oral evidence in the homelessness inquiry will
be given by Mr Moffat and Mr Cashell from Shelter Northern Ireland. 313. Mr Moffat: I thank the Committee for setting
up the inquiry and for inviting us to make an oral presentation. We are happy
to do that because the issue is important. Housing Executive statistics show
that more than 12,000 applicants presented as homeless last year. Of the 9,000
who were found to be homeless, more than 6,000 were accepted as priority homeless.
Homelessness is a serious problem in Northern Ireland and a specific system
is required to deal with it. 314. There
are two strands to that system. First, there must be a statutory system that
involves legislation. Secondly, there must be an adequate supply of both temporary and permanent accommodation.
The legislative framework must do two things: define homelessness clearly;
and place a clear duty on a statutory body to receive, identify and house homeless
people. We argue for legislation and an adequate supply of both temporary
and permanent accommodation as the twin means to tackle homelessness. The Housing
(Northern Ireland) Order 1988, which deals with homelessness, is already in
place. It defines homelessness and places a duty on the Housing Executive to
identify, prioritise and house homeless people. We are generally happy with
the legislation. 315. Shelter
Northern Ireland spent some time in the 1980s arguing for legislation. In October
1983, we met Chris Patten, the then Under-Secretary of State at the Department
of the Environment. We are sympathetic to and supportive of the legislation.
However, we wish to see it improved on and used as a framework around which
a preventative strategy can be built. 316. I
shall go through the recommendations that we have made to the Committee, which
are in section 5 of our
document. Our first recommendation is that the present legislative framework.
It should continue to define homelessness and place a clear duty on the Housing
Executive to deal with it. In that context, we wish to see improvements made
to it. 317. The
first improvement that we wish to see is that the Executive must be required
to draw up a strategy to ensure that homelessness be prevented. They must be
more proactive than at present. Secondly, we wish to see those priority groups which currently exist
expanded to include 16- to 21-year-olds leaving care or subject to the
Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 and 16- to 18-year-olds who are homeless
or threatened with homelessness.
The Housing Executive must be responsible for dealing with their housing
needs 318. Thirdly,
we wish to see improvement to the concept of intentionality, which unfortunately
we feel is necessary
to deal with abuse of the system. However, it must be more tightly defined
to include only the intention of an act rather than its consequences. If the
intention of the
act were to become homeless, that would be seen as intentionality, but
if homelessness were the consequence, that would not be seen as such. We wish
to see the matter of intent more clearly focused and defined than at present. 319. Fourthly,
we wish to see a speedy appeals system put in place so that those homeless applicants
who are rejected can go through an independent appeals system to put their case
for a reassessment of the Housing Executive's decisions. The next matter concerns
the common selection
scheme. The selection scheme allocates housing to those defined as being
in need. We now have a common selection scheme, but it has to some extent modified
and undermined the priority originally given to the homeless. We should like
to see an assessment done on the scheme's impact on the rehousing
of homeless applicants, especially full-duty applicants. 320. Our
next recommendation concerns temporary accommodation, which we believe should
be provided by the not-for-profit sector, which essentially means voluntary
groups, rather than by the private sector. The voluntary sector is in a better
position to understand the needs of homeless people and provide them with the
necessary support. 321. That leads on to the issue
of the private, furnished sector. That sector is uncontrolled, and some
controls should be introduced into that sector for security of tenure and affordable rents.
Many non-priority homeless people end up in the furnished sector. The
furnished sector
is also one of the causes of homelessness according to recent documentation
produced by the Housing Executive. People are forced to leave the furnished,
unregulated sector. Regulations should be brought into that sector to tackle
that problem. 322. Our
next recommendation concerns the supply of public sector housing. The Committee is probably aware
that the supply of new buildings in the public sector has been falling consistently
in the past 10 years. In fact, 2000-01 was the lowest on record, with 1,156
completions, which is totally inadequate. The Housing Executive, in its most
recent review of the market, argues that just to keep on top of urgent need,
we need to provide 1,500 completions per annum in the public sector. We are
falling well below that. Moreover, the Housing Executive's house sales scheme
is racing ahead. It sells around 5,000 houses per year, and in the 1990s there
was a net loss of around 25,000 public sector houses. That is not a sustainable
policy. Public sector housing is required for re-allocation to those in need,
and we want to see a study of the impact of the house sales scheme on rehousing
those in need, including the homeless. 323. Our
final point concerns resources. We are aware that there has been an increase
in people presenting as homeless,
partly as a result of inter-community, sectarian violence, and various
fallouts within paramilitary organisations. There have apparently been more
cases of intimidation.
That increase indicates that homelessness is, to some extent, demand-led.
We would argue that cash for emergency accommodation should not be limited,
but demand-led. That is essential if we are to tackle the whole issue of homelessness,
especially in a situation in which there are considerable levels of sectarian
violence and paramilitary-sourced intimidation. 324. Mr O'Connor: You said that Shelter Northern
Ireland would like there to be a clearer definition of homelessness. What would
you specifically like to see contained in that definition? You also talked about
building for supply to meet demand in the Housing Executive. My area has a homeless
problem yet we also have 250 unoccupied properties. How do we marry
those two things? I partially accept what you said about house sales. You mentioned
that Shelter Northern Ireland would like to see an appeal system. Does the Housing
Executive decide that somebody is not homeless and the same body reviews
that decision? Is an independent appeals system needed? I have raised that
matter with the Minister, as I know it concerns some people. 325. Mr Moffat: An internal system operates at present,
but as you have rightly described, those making the original decision are being
asked to reassess it. That is not satisfactory, so we are arguing for an independent
appeal system. We stand by that argument. 326. The
question of supply is straightforward. Supply is falling - it is now down at
1,100 completions per year in the public sector against a minimum target of
1,500, which is the figure for which the Housing Executive argues. 327. That
supply is now inadequate, despite the fact that there are around 200 empty properties
in your area. Those properties should be brought back into use if they are fit
in which to live. I do not know the particular circumstances in Larne. Perhaps
the houses are unfit or there are problems in the area. Perhaps there is insufficient
money in the Housing Executive's kitty to improve the houses and make them habitable.
Empty houses should be brought back into use if possible. 328. Shelter
Northern Ireland is not arguing for a change to the definition of homelessness. We are saying
that any statutory system must have a clear definition. The Housing Executive
should have a duty to draw up a strategy in order to prevent homelessness. That
strategy should
become a new element in the legislation. That should be the Housing Executive's
job, instead of reacting to homelessness in a "firefighting" way. 329. Mr Cashell: One definition in the legislation
is that a person can have an address but that it is not reasonable for that
person to remain there. That is a rather broad definition, and it allows the
individual assessing officer a large area of interpretation and discretion.
I would not necessarily argue that the legislation should be more precise. However, there
must be transparent guidelines that explain the boundaries of reasonableness
in any individual case. That definition could be widely interpreted, or it could strictly
interpreted - especially if there is an appeal against a decision. Some
sort of framework must exist. I am not arguing that it must become primary legislation.
However, it should be in the system. 330. Problems
exist in the UK with under-supply or over-supply on popular estates and with
extensive demolition programmes. Those problems co-exist with extensive homelessness
in most cities. The Housing Executive in Northern Ireland is demolishing buildings
at the same time as it is undertaking new building programmes in the same area.
Much of that is to do with why individual properties are vacant. Shelter is
unhappy with a formula that forces homeless people to live on the worst estates
where no one else wants to live. That creates an entirely new set of problems.
However, I agree that that needs to be seen as part of a prevention strategy
in the context of a real strategy that deals with the reasons why individual
locations are unpopular, are difficult to let or are surplus to requirements.
Such buildings must be replaced with what is needed and with what people want. 331. Mr B Hutchinson: Do you believe that the
definition is effective in dealing with homelessness? 332. Mr Cashell: No. Because the definition
can be so widely interpreted there is much litigation regarding whether people
are homeless or not. The real problem is in tackling the priority-need group
effectively. Many people who are recognised as homeless are not entitled to
the full amount of support and intervention because the definition of the priority-need group is being
rigidly interpreted. Those people are not being given full duty applicant status and, therefore,
are not given a fast track. 333. Shelter
Northern Ireland is concerned that the concept of a priority-need group needs to be reconsidered
and that everybody
who is homeless gets the appropriate help. That help might take the form
of temporary or permanent accommodation. However, Shelter has always
had a problem with the priority-need group concept. That could be dealt with
either by abolishing the test or by having a more generous definition. The problem
of young single people who fall outside that definition has been specifically mentioned.
Those people need assistance. 334. Mr B Hutchinson: The view of other people
who have given evidence is that the Housing Executive figure of 12,600 applicants
is much higher because of the notion of the "hidden homeless". Do you agree with
that? 335. Mr Moffat: Shelter does not disagree with
that. We have used official statistics because it is difficult for people to argue against
them. The Simon Community and Women's Aid, for example, collect statistics
on the homeless. Those figures should be taken seriously by anybody who looks
at them. Shelter is not saying that there are no more than 12,600 applicants
per year. We have used those statistics because they are probably more acceptable. 336. Mr ONeill: I apologise for arriving late.
I may have missed some important points. However, in reply to Mr Hutchinson's
question, you said that the existing legislation was inadequate, which is correct,
as there was a 20% increase in applicants in the past year. I shall focus on
the new housing Bill. I do not know whether your presentation mentioned whether
you had seen it or knew what was to be included in it. The Committee is concerned
about getting the legislation right. 337. What
are your views on the strategies employed by agencies in Britain or the Republic
of Ireland that could prove effective? Do you have any views on the current legislation in Britain
or examples of good practice that would be suitable for us to adopt?
I am worried that we may end up with a housing Bill that only keeps pace with
problems, rather than overtakes them. Given the 20% increase in those presenting
as homeless, we must take control of the situation. In your experience, what examples
of good practice and what strategies would help us to get on top of the escalating
problem? 338. Mr Cashell: Unfortunately, I am not sure
that we can identify
many examples of broad-based good practice. The last draft housing Bill
that I saw was dated 1996. That was largely geared towards mirroring the proposals
for the 1996 housing legislation in Britain, which was dictated by the philosophy
of the Conservative Government. We were unhappy with the direction that was
being taken and with much of the content of the Housing Act 1996, and we
would have been very unhappy had it been brought in here. Some components
of the draft housing Bill that remained intact while it moved through different
systems here are still trying to follow the old Conservative agenda that is
redundant in England. We want to ensure that, whatever direction it takes, the
legislation follows more up-to-date thinking. 339. The Westminster Government's
action in reversing what we consider to be the damaging effect of the
Housing Act 1996 is not as far advanced as we would like. Many issues still
apply in England that do not apply here, such as those affecting people moving
across boundaries. For example, there was a notion in Northern Ireland that
a person could be in category A in his or her own district, but that did not
mean that he or she would be in category A in another district. That sort of
mechanism compounded the problem, because homeless people who wanted to be rehoused
were restricted to their own district. The equivalent provision in England
was much more rigid. People must have much more mobility. That is a problem
of the administrative, rather than the legislative, system. 340. Many
local authorities - in Scotland more than in England and Wales - are taking a much broader view
of the extent to which young people are vulnerable. Therefore, they automatically
take the view that a wide range of young people can be considered to be vulnerable
and to have priority need. They do not have to be so severely at risk that they have already
come to the
attention of social services, or become the responsibility of social
services under the Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995. That is an example of good practice
in which local authorities are taking such a broad view. They are also taking
a pragmatic view of the sort of housing and the sort of help that those young people
need. It is not just a housing issue for many homeless people. 341. I cannot give you specific
examples at the moment, but there is a general trend towards recognising
that young people need help. They are only going to be successfully rehoused
if they get back-up and support. 342. We
are involved in the design of housing projects here based on English models. The example of the
foyer movement
is one that is often cited. There are four pilot foyers in Northern Ireland
and the Department here has taken the view that there will not be any more until
there is a proper assessment of their success. We would like to see that develop,
and a decision taken as to whether that type of provision is a real contributor.
That type of project is widespread in England. There is a policy that every
town should have one. There is an assumption that the foyer movement is working
for young homeless people. However, we need to consider whether it applies to
Northern Ireland's circumstances, and if so, to expand it. 343. The
other point is that the traffic, the throughput and the success in housing people
is primarily a system and supply issue; it is not a legislative issue. The large
number of people who are getting full duty applicant status, but are still in
the system, is part of the problem. The fundamental factors are the speed of
throughput, and the availability of suitable and permanent housing in the areas
where people want it. 344. Throughput
in Northern Ireland is generally faster than in many areas of England, Scotland
and Wales. However, that is not a reason to be complacent. A stay of more than
one year in temporary accommodation is relatively unusual in Northern Ireland. However, even
that is unsatisfactory if the temporary accommodation is not good. The quality
and range of temporary accommodation in Northern Ireland needs to be seriously
addressed. Again, that is a delivery issue, not a legislative one. We should
not be using hotels and bed and breakfasts. Small rural towns should not be
shifting people, for example, from Omagh to Fivemiletown to stay in a hotel
because they are homeless. Once again, however, that is not a legislative issue,
but a funding and planning issue. 345. Mr ONeill: You rightly separated the legislative
issues from the delivery of the service. It strikes Committee members in listening
to contributions, that there are many well-meaning people and agencies involved.
However, the delivery of the service seems to suffer from a lack of cohesion.
Although it may not be included in the legislation, is there anything that you
would suggest should go into the advice notes of the legislation that would
ensure a more coherent approach to what is a multi-faceted problem? 346. Mr Moffat: The Housing Executive should
have a duty to draw
up a preventative strategy in conjunction with the various groups - especially
the voluntary sector and the health boards - that come into contact with homeless
people, in order to ensure that there is a comprehensive range of solutions.
Of course, that requires resources, and there is an issue of supply meeting need. We would argue
that the Housing Executive must take charge of the system. It should
be working with organisations that deliver other services, such as health bodies. 347. Mr Cashell: It comes back to one area
of good practice. Several local authorities in England, and certainly in London,
had private sector conciliation operations under the aegis of their housing departments,
which actively worked to prevent evictions in the private sector, rather than
pick up the homeless case that was the result of the eviction. That was in the
context that private sector tenants had at least some basic rights in the English
legislation, which they do not have here. 348. We
would like to see more legal protection for tenants in the private sector, and that the illegal evictions
that take place be more rigorously policed. There have been practically no prosecutions
of private landlords for illegal eviction in Northern Ireland. In the few cases
that there have been, derisory fines of £50 were imposed. The Housing Executive
should have a preventative role to play. Its homeless unit should be able to
assist people who present as homeless and say that their landlord is going to
throw them out. The homeless unit should be able to deal with that problem,
either by preventing the eviction, or, at least, by going through the proper
legal channels. That would be better than asking the person to come back when
they are out on the street. 349. The
Housing Executive has that sort of role to play. Due to the extent of the problem
in cities in England,
that has been seen as a valid role that can work. However, it must be
in the context of a legislative framework, so that the tenants have that protection. 350. Primarily,
it is a question of making sure that cases are properly heard. There has been
a shift under the common selection scheme, which we welcome. It used to be implied
that if a person did not use the magic word, "homeless", when he or she went
into the Housing Executive district office, then the fact that the person may
be homeless was not considered. One of the core principles of the new common selection scheme
is that everybody
is considered to be potentially homeless and is assessed for that possibility before the mainstream
assessment. If that is actually happening, it is a major step forward. It may be a
while before we see the impact of that on the ground, but it is one of
the principles enshrined
in the new system. It has been clearly declared as one of the core principles of the new system
- everybody is considered as perhaps being homeless. That culture shift is a great
improvement if it is occurring. 351. The Chairperson: You can understand the
difficulties with house sales. My personal opinion is that there is no possibility
of us restricting house sales. That has been in force for several years. Any
attempt to restrict house sales could quickly lead to the courts. Tenants already
have that right; it would be difficult to take it away. 352. I
also seek clarification on the issue of homelessness and where people want to live. That causes
enormous difficulties in that there is high demand for certain areas.
Mr O'Connor has indicated some areas - and I am sure that there are others throughout
the Province - where people do not want to live. That restricts the stock even
further. The problem cannot be addressed through resources alone. 353. Mr S Wilson: When you were talking about
someone priority need in one area but not in another, one of your recommendations
was that priority need should be carried over to whatever area a person chose
in which to live.
Is that suggestion not likely to exacerbate the problem to which the
Chairperson has referred? I am sure that we all know of people who, once they
obtain homeless status, will hold out for a property on the best estate. I do
not blame them for that; they know that they will never have a better chance
to get it. They refuse properties in areas that are regarded as less popular.
Does the proposal that an individual can carry that to anywhere in Northern
Ireland not ensure that housing stock becomes even more underused, because it
discourages people
from taking up offers in certain areas? 354. Mr Cashell: The problem of effective use
of the property is difficult; it is a multi-faceted issue. Our basic principle
would be that someone who is homeless should not be treated any worse than someone
who is seeking rehousing under other circumstances. Most people on the waiting list
probably do as you described. They may feel less pressurised because
they are being rehoused out of a damp or overcrowded house and may be in a better
position to wait, but they are also holding out for the area that they want.
It is not only homeless people who are doing so. There is absolutely no reason
that people who find themselves to be homeless should be treated worse than
anyone else in the system. That is one of the fundamentals. 355. All applicants in the system
can lose their priority or lose their entitlement to further offers by
declining reasonable
offers. The same penalty exists for the homeless person as for anyone
else if during the process a person turns down what are otherwise reasonable offers because
he or she is holding out for a certain area. 356. There
is a risk that, because it is very difficult within all the policies to get a transfer out of an unpopular
area, people will be afraid that if they are offered and accept only the unpopular
area they will be trapped there. What have been labelled "sink estates" have
developed in some parts of the United Kingdom. Even in Northern Ireland blocks
of flats in some areas have a high turnover and a highly transient population.
Only homeless people will accept an offer in them, because that
is all that they will be offered. That is very damaging to the reputation
of an area; much of that damage could be limited by developing a system that
gives homeless people the same priority and entitlement as anybody else. 357. We
should ensure that if a person wants to move into an area - which may be an unpopular area outside
the area in which he has declared himself homeless - he has the widest possible
choice in order to better use the property. There should be no artificial barriers.
The problem occurs when homeless people are told that they will be offered anything
in the Greater Belfast area but that they will be disqualified if they refuse
two offers. We do not want such a system, because its restrictions apply only
to the homeless. We must widen people's choice. 358. Mr Moffat: We do not argue that the house
sales scheme should be modified or stopped. House sales have increased, yet the rate
of replacement new buildings is falling. That will have consequences
for the future. We should try to find out what the consequences of the sales
policy will be on the quality of the stock and what opportunities are left. 359. The Chairperson: Judging by your figures, one need not
be a rocket scientist to work out the consequences. 360. Mr Cashell: We need a minimum of 3,000
more houses a year than are currently planned. 361. Ms Gildernew: The house sales scheme has
affected the homeless; yet your recommendations do not mention rural homelessness.
We know that there is a problem of hidden homelessness in rural areas. There
are far fewer facilities for people who find themselves homeless in rural areas.
How might that be tackled? There is a lack of facilities for women. Women with
children often find
their way to Women's Aid - where there is a Women's Aid hostel or temporary accommodation
- but there is rarely accommodation for single women. Young women can find themselves
in very difficult situations. Often they are away from home or from their own
areas, and they can end up in Belfast or somewhere where they are much more
vulnerable. 362. Mr Cashell: The house sales debate has
already gone through
the Committee, and I do not want to re-open it. Any attempt to change
the sales policy would be difficult. The Rural Housing Association is gearing
itself to creating small-scale
village and crossroads developments and small local responses. We hope
to open a hostel for young homeless people in Omagh, for example, with capacity
for 12 to 18 people. 363. Rural
responses must centre on the nearest medium-sized town, and therefore very localised responses
would probably be quite difficult. There must be much more small-scale
localised provision, particularly in the west of the Province, which
should be run by the not for profit sector. The small-scale developments, such
as those being created by the Rural Housing Association, should take into account localised demand. 364. Ms Gildernew: What about women? 365. Mr Cashell: The hostel that we are talking
about will be for men and women. Women's Aid is probably better at providing
separate provision. It is the only experienced provider for such accommodation.
If it develops it will take people without children as well as people with children,
and I understand that it does so already. 366. Ms Gildernew: If there is room. 367. Mr Cashell: People without children do
not get the same priority. That is one of our problems with the system. I agree
that there must be provision for lone adults, particularly young lone adults. 368. Mr G Kelly: Can you expand on the redefinition
of intentionality? You said that it should include only those situations in
which homelessness is the intention, not the consequence, of the action? How should
primary legislation deal with that? 369. Mr Moffat: If a tenant refuses to pay
rent because the landlord refuses to carry out repairs under the terms of the
lease the tenant may be evicted. That would be the consequence of a legitimate
act by the tenant in trying to ensure that the landlord adhered to the lease.
A tenant who stopped paying rent for no reason would appear to want to be evicted
- in other words, homelessness would be the intention. 370. Mr G Kelly: How would you deal with that
legislatively? Would you deal with that as part of guidelines in the Housing
Executive strategy? 371. Mr Cashell: There are two ways of dealing
with it. The first is through an anti-fraud measure. "Deliberately worsening
your circumstances" was the phrase that was used in the selection scheme in
the past. That is how intentionality should be defined. It should be clear that
a person had deliberately worsened his circumstances in order to benefit from
the scheme. It would be possible to remove intentionality and to cover the matter under the
general deliberate worsening of circumstances or fraudulent application
provision. I do not
believe that the legislation defines intentionality. The system does
not define intentionality; therefore a system change could deal with it. We
are concerned that many young people make misguided decisions, and they become
homeless as a consequence. Intentionality is being used in that framework unfairly. 372. Sir John Gorman: Mr Moss, a previous Environment
Minister, took the Housing Executive out of new house building and put the housing
associations into it. Chapter five of a White Paper for local authorities in
the United Kingdom, which was issued on 20 December 2001, deals with housing
finance. It states that housing bodies with a proven record of achievement in
housing could be allowed to enter the private market for borrowing. The difference
is often no more than 0·5%, and that results in the Housing Executive's no longer
being able to build new houses. 373. At least 1,500 Housing Executive
houses are needed between now and 2005. We now build 900 houses a year,
and that has dropped over the past three years. I urge you to attend to that
and to use whatever muscle you have to raise the figure to 5,000 new houses.
Forget about the disappearance of house sales because this year the Housing
Executive proposes a capping scheme that will bring up the discounted value
of housing. However, people will be eager to get in before that takes place.
It is bad now, and it is getting worse. I do not count solely on you to consult
us - perhaps the public could get involved. 374. Mr Cashell: Shelter has no problem with
the Housing Executive's re-establishing its development programme. We are concerned
that the shift to housing associations is financial and ideological, and it
is not based on an assessment of ability to deliver or equality of management.
We have no problem with parallel work between the Housing Executive and housing
associations. The target is to build 5,000 houses a year. 375. Mr Moffat: For obvious reasons we have
not dealt with the
role of the Housing Executive, the housing associations and finance for
housing - of who can build and in what circumstances. We have not argued that
the house sales scheme should be abolished - it is politically impossible to do that, even if it were
desirable. However, more public sector houses must be provided. 376. The Chairperson: Thank you for your interesting
and informative contribution. |
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