Mr Campbell:

I wish to address the matters outlined in Mr Farren's closing remarks. In this 26-page report, there is no mention whatsoever of the dreaded D-word. The word that has haunted proceedings of this Assembly since its establishment, the word that has hung over all of our deliberations like a spectre. The First Minister (Designate) has told us that decommissioning has to begin - must begin - before an Executive can be established.

With regard to decommissioning, I have no doubt that, in the next month or two, there will be some kind of event which will be dressed up to look like a beginning to decommissioning. This will have to happen, according to the contents of the personal message from the First Minister (Designate), dated 8 January - of course, that is no guarantee; it has not counted for much in the past. His words, on the second page of that letter, were as follows:

"As your leader, I wish to assure you that Sinn Fein will not be included in the agreement that I have referred to above if Sinn Fein/IRA do not honour their commitment to decommissioning made under the Belfast Agreement"

And then, in bold letters, to make sure that we do not miss the point, we read

"If they do not, the Ulster Unionist Party will not form an Executive that includes Sinn Fein."

Strong words. That is why some event will take place which will allow the First Minister (Designate) to say that decommissioning has begun, thus triggering the d'Hondt system, which will allow for representatives of Sinn Fein/IRA to be included in the Executive. The question of ongoing, meaningful and verifiable decommissioning must be addressed, but this document fails to do so.

The arguments about whether decommissioning should take place before or after the formation of an Executive have been well rehearsed. Everyone, except for some elements in the Ulster Unionist Party, now accepts that this is not in the agreement. Every other party in Northern Ireland, be it pro-agreement or anti-agreement, accepts that. Everyone in the Republic of Ireland accepts that. Everyone in Great Britain accepts that.

But there are elements in the Ulster Unionist Party who do not. I can understand why - pride. There is no mention of decommissioning prior to the formation of the Executive, and we are going to get some kind of fudge, first, to allow the First Minister (Designate) off the hook so that he can try to salvage some semblance of dignity and say that a form of decommissioning has started, and, secondly, to allow two Sinn Fein/IRA Members to take their places in the Executive. Of course, this should have been in the agreement - it was not.

There has been much deliberation about the need for Nationalist support for what is to be put in place, whether that be with regard to the future of policing in Northern Ireland, or in terms of the general political situation. Indeed, we hear a great deal about the equality agenda, not least from Mr Farren and others. This is presented as almost a prerequisite for Nationalist participation. But, the one thing which has not been acknowledged by the pro-agreement parties, either in the media or in the Assembly, is the fact that over half of the Unionist population has the gravest possible reservations about what is going on.

There has been no acceptance of that fact. We have been discounted. Mr Mallon said that we have a point of view. Well, thanks very much. Either he is being patronising, or he is admitting that not only do we have a point of view but we represent the majority of the Unionist community.

The Deputy First Minister (Designate):

Will the Member give way?

Mr Campbell:

I will give way for a ten-second intervention.

The Deputy First Minister (Designate):

I was trying to be courteous to a point of view with which I do not agree. At least I recognise that there is another point of view. I could have approached it differently - maybe then the Member would have been satisfied.

Mr Campbell:

The Member took more than ten seconds.

A Member:

That shows that you should never trust the SDLP.

Mr Campbell:

I learnt that years ago.

What would be the extent of public disquiet and debate if we had a series of fundamental developments in Northern Ireland about which over half of the Nationalist community had grave reservations? Would the media say that they were of no consequence? Would the Nationalists allow themselves to be patronised and told "We will listen to what you say, but we will carry on regardless"? The "Yes" camp admits that well over half of our community - and the figure is growing by the day - has the gravest possible reservations about what is going on. So how is that going to be addressed? What value is going to be put on that legitimate complaint?

It is nonsense to talk of Unionist sensitivities and Nationalist rights. I am sick, sore and tired of hearing that Nationalist grievances have to be addressed while we ensure that the Unionists do not get annoyed and go ballistic. The people whom I represent are angry because their rights have been trampled on. They do not get jobs allocated on the basis of merit. They have been subjected to a terror campaign for over thirty years, and what do they get? They get an agreement rammed down their throats whether they like it or not, and all the Deputy First Minister (Designate) can say is that they have a point of view.

Let us look at the issue of language. On page 25 of the report is an example of what I have been talking about. This document shows that the Irish language is all-important, as if we needed telling. According to the space given to the languages in this report, Irish is seven times more important than Ulster-Scots. We represent the majority in Northern Ireland. A tiny minority use the Irish language, some genuinely and many for political purposes. They get seven times as much coverage as Ulster-Scots. Is it any wonder our people are angry?

The anger is building in our community about an agreement which is going to be forced down our throats whether we like it or not, and the Assembly needs to be very careful and take account of the views of all our people, many of whom do not see the Assembly as representing their interests. They think we are avoiding the issue of decommissioning and trying to get two gunmen, representatives of terror and destruction, into the heart of the Government of this country that we love so well.

Mr McLaughlin:

Go raibh maith agat a Chathaoirligh. As Mr Adams has said, Sinn Fein will be giving its political support to the December 18 agreement in spite of our reservations about some aspects of it. Our reservations are sincerely held. Other parties have also made their positions clear in regard to the conduct of the negotiations. Sinn Fein's view is that this was, in Nationalist terms, a solo run by the SDLP.

The agreement falls short of what was possible and of what Nationalists expected. In particular, we believe the opposition of the SDLP to a stand-alone equality department was a fundamental blunder.

3.00 pm

The deal on this issue leaves equality located somewhere between the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate). It would surely be better to have a dedicated Department with a cross-party scrutiny committee to deal with the issue when it becomes a continuing bone of contention, or, alternatively, is ignored or long-fingered to avoid dissension between the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate).

Under the deal, there is a real possibility that equality will be treated with less urgency than other issues. In that event, we will all come under justifiably severe criticism from the people, who will feel short-changed yet again. The First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate) will, of course, have a crucial arbiter's role in any dispute between Departments, but on this question they cannot be independent arbiters in their own Department. Their failure to agree a motion to issue a determination on their own report adequately demonstrates this point.

On their track records, unless they are subjected to public scrutiny, neither the Unionist parties nor the British Government can be fully trusted to deliver on the equality agenda. The proposals that are before the House do not contain details of any satisfactory scrutiny mechanism. I welcome the comment by Sean Farren that there will be a scrutiny committee on equality. I would welcome an indication by the next speaker on behalf of the Unionist Party that it has also agreed to accept that. It would certainly be reassuring to know that we all have a role in satisfying expectations on the equality agenda.

David Trimble and Denis Watson spoke about intimidation and punishment beatings and gave examples. One of the most perplexing issues arising from the equality agenda is that, on the Garvaghy Road, which is in the constituency of both David Trimble and Denis Watson, there are nightly punishment beatings and intimidation. Those who are inextricably linked to the Orange Order and those who are organising the Garvaghy Road protest, which has been going on for more than 200 days and which has a history of some years, should use their influence to bring the protest to an end.

David Trimble's attitude to the rights of those who voted for Sinn Fein and his attitude to the provisions of the agreement do not give much cause for optimism that equality will be promoted with vigour. Discriminatory practices have distorted the political landscape in the North, and have destroyed the lives of many generations. The Assembly should make it clear that that will no longer be tolerated. We should go further and ensure that there is no role for those who would return to the bad old practice of Unionist domination and the denial of rights.

The Good Friday Agreement sets out new and radical guidelines for public bodies for a range of under-represented sections of society. The relationship of those bodies to the public will be very different to that which such bodies had in the past. New Departments with new Ministers will need a great deal of help, advice and encouragement in that respect if we are to set out proper work practices from the outset.

Equality and the eradication of discrimination are central to the building of a stable and cohesive society. There can be no lasting political settlement that is not built on a solid foundation of equality, a fundamental, democratic right which must be delivered. The most effective manner of ensuring that would have been through the creation of a stand-alone, dedicated Department of Equality, subject to examination by a cross-party committee.

The Good Friday Agreement was heralded as the beginning of the end of our shared history of misery, conflict, violence and grief. Throughout the island, the people, by an overwhelming majority, have welcomed and supported the political accommodations - yes, and the compromises - that were so painstakingly negotiated over so many months. The key concept is equality. The brave new beginning that the people of Ireland voted for, the democratic society that we are attempting to create, can only be built on the most solid foundations of equality.

Some Members have referred to the remarks made by Mr Taylor last night. We have been entertained in the past by Mr Percentage. Mr Taylor is a fascinating politician, as he changes his position depending on the political wind. He has been framing percentages for a considerable time, just like his leader and previous leaders.

But Mr Taylor, in some of his remarks - though not all of them - over past months, and Sir Reg Empey and Mr McGimpsey today have suggested that when they say that people must change they are referring to all and not just to their political opponents. They are talking about those in their political constituencies, and I want to acknowledge that we have heard those comments and pay attention to them. Our task is to ensure that they reject the propositions of those who would tear up the Good Friday Agreement.

Sir Reg Empey in his argument about change made points with which I agree. Those who are pro-agreement must show leadership. Eighty-five percent of the electorate in this country voted in the referendum to support the Good Friday Agreement, and Sinn Fein will be playing its part in the coalition Government that will be established as a result. I welcome the fact that 80% of the Executive Cabinet will be from parties who are pro-agreement. I like those odds, and our people like them.

Catholics, Protestants, the centre, Unionists, Nationalists and Republicans are saying "Reject the rejectionists. There has been enough of majority rule and exclusion." They want an inclusive, power-sharing agreement to build a new future for our people and they are sending a message to those in the "no" camp that their day has gone. There is a new reality and political dispensation which we can all be part of because there are no locked doors anymore. The majority of the people have spoken and given a mandate to most of the parties in the Assembly. We will deliver on that mandate. Go raibh maith agat.

Mr Nesbitt:

I find it interesting to listen when the DUP is attacking my party. The half-truths of its leadership are disconcerting and do not convey the true message to the electorate. Regarding the North/South Ministerial Council, Dr Paisley said "All anyone would have to do is make an oral statement to the Assembly."

Mr Roche said that the North/South Council will have no effective control by the Assembly. I wish they would consult the Northern Ireland Act 1998. They refer to only one section of that Act: subsection 6 of section 52. They omit completely subsection 3, which states that no decision in the North/South Ministerial Council can be taken unless it is

"in accordance with any decisions of the Assembly or the Executive Committee".

There can be no stronger linkage between one body and another than "act in accordance with". The North/South Ministerial Council is not only accountable to the Assembly but it also derives its authority from the Assembly. That is abundantly clear.

Mr McCartney was lecturing the Ulster Unionist Party earlier. He always implies that he is a man with absolute logic in his thinking. In fact, he wonders if there is anyone as logical as himself. He referred to his warning to the Ulster Unionist Party that, while the Assembly could be brought down, the North/South Ministerial Council would be enshrined in law. The threat there, according to Mr McCartney, is that it would continue even if the Executive fell by the wayside.

The North/South Ministerial Council will comprise Ministers or junior Ministers. They will only be able to take decisions based on the Assembly and the Executive. If there is no Executive and no Assembly, there will not be any Ministers to take such decisions or to be accountable. There is to be an inextricable linkage between the North/South Ministerial Council and the Assembly. Mr McCartney's logic has to be seen to be believed.

Knowing the forensic mind of Mr McCartney, I am sure he will examine every word I have said today. When Mr McCartney is not in the Chamber, neither is his party, for they are one and the same. He said earlier that decommissioning must take place. I put it to him again for the fourth time, and I am still awaiting his reply, that he alone among the Unionist family has made it very clear that he will accept those with paramilitary links into Government without decommissioning. I refer to paragraph 4 of his article which appeared in the Belfast Telegraph on 1 May 1998, and I ask Mr McCartney to deny the validity of what I say: he alone as a Unionist Leader would accept Sinn Fein in Government without decommissioning.

Mr Farren and Sinn Fein have referred to the issues of rights and equality. Mr Adams referred to equal numbers of Unionists and Nationalists in the Executive. Equality does not necessarily mean equity and fairness. Sinn Fein says that it has a right to be in the Executive because of its mandate from the people. No right is absolute; no right is unconditional. The most sacred right of all, the right to life, is not unconditional. It is accepted under international law that the due process of law can carry forward and execute, or take life, in defence of civic society. No right is absolute. Every right is conditional.

The Ulster Unionist Party is not opposed to the presence of Sinn Fein in Government provided that it subscribes to the conditions which give it the right to participate in Government.

3.15 pm

When he was interviewed on the radio this morning Sean Farren referred to Prof Brice Dickson, and Barry Cowan asked Mr Farren if there was inequality in Northern Ireland and if there was a need for a rights commission. Mr Farren said that we, like any other community, should abide by international standards or rights.

I listen to the Sinn Fein perspective and try to understand when they say that in Northern Ireland there is a group - smaller than the Unionist group - that wishes to preserve its culture, its language, its education and all of those aspects that define it as a group. The Council of Europe defines such a group as those who wish to preserve that which gives them cohesiveness.

The Council of Europe has produced the most effective and, indeed, the only legally binding rights agreement in international law. Based on that agreement, I ask Sinn Fein what are they being denied? The Council of Europe talks about effective equality - social, political, cultural and economic - and I contend that this is not denied in Northern Ireland.

Article 11 of the Council of Europe's charter allows one to use one's own name in one's own language, to display signs in one's own language, to be educated in one's culture and history - and adequate opportunities for teacher training in that culture should be provided -to allow one to set up and manage private educational and training institutions, to learn one's own language and create conditions for effective participation in cultural, social, economic and public life.

Ulster Unionists want such conditions and we believe that we have such conditions. Indeed, we believe there is a case for a scrutiny committee to deal with this aspect of rights and equality. That will need to be looked at very carefully by Members over the next month. As my Colleagues have said, the opportunity is there to be taken by all those who wish to do so. But those who wish to participate in government must be committed to peace.

Mr Gallagher:

I support the motion and its commitment to 10 March as the date for devolution.

This is a comprehensive report and an important step in the implementation of the will of the people as demonstrated by their support for the agreement. Reference to equality has been made, and Members are aware how weighty, potent and powerful an issue that is - one of fundamental importance to the development of trust and confidence in the community.

The issue of equality can best be dealt with through the offices of the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate). This does not represent any diminution in transparency, openness or effectiveness. It is sensible and logical to have the issue of equality dealt with centrally.

Any of the 10 members of the Executive can bring equality issues from their own Departments, or from any other Departments, to meetings of the Executive.

This report allows for a comprehensive equality agenda. Concerns with equality issues can be raised with departmental Committees and, subsequently, with the Assembly as well. I remind those who have criticisms about the arrangements in the report to keep in mind the role and scope of the Equality Commission under the Act. Members should be aware of its capacity to act and oversee the work across all Departments.

Concerns have been expressed about a central economic policy unit. Paragraph 3.7 states that both Ministers will have to tackle the social, economic and cultural neglect in this community. This together with the accompanying commitment to tackle the inequalities and inconsistencies that exist in education, health, economic development and in other key areas will be well received by everyone.

The date set for the Assembly to begin work on the allocation of ministerial offices, on the setting up of North/South bodies and the British-Irish Council and on detailed arrangements for the Civic Forum is 15 February. All these are important elements of the agreement which we who stand by the agreement are commissioned to deliver. The agreement was endorsed by a clear majority of the electorate, and we must remind ourselves of that, regardless of some Members' interpretations. Members who support the agreement are commissioned to put this in place, and those who hold back now will be acting against the clearly expressed wishes of the people and will be seen as trying to subvert the will of the people.

If the report is passed, and if on 15 February a determination on the structures for building an inclusive society is reached, the Assembly will have fulfilled its obligations. The public will have little time or tolerance for those who insist on delaying or blocking progress thereafter.

On the one hand, there can be no sustainable argument against delaying the start of decommissioning by paramilitaries on both sides, and, on the other, Unionists will no longer be able to mount any sustainable arguments for holding back on the full implementation of the agreement.

The overwhelming view of ordinary people is that this opportunity is one which we must take to build a new future based on peace and justice. It is an opportunity that must not be missed.

Mr Carrick:

I can assure the House that the DUP is not engaged in any choreography. It takes this issue seriously and seeks to represent its electorate honestly, openly and with transparency. It does not engage in half-truths. The report has its roots in the Belfast Agreement, an agreement which is repugnant to many Unionists - 50% of the Unionist family rejected it in the referendum. As my Colleague Gregory Campbell has indicated, that is a significant section of the community whose wishes cannot be set aside or treated lightly. The electorate was faithfully warned by the DUP of the ramifications of endorsing the agreement and today we are confronted by the fruit of the seeds sown in the negotiations.

In spite of the attempts of some Unionists to justify their treacherous actions, the price to be paid for a local, accountable Assembly at Stormont will prove to be a ransom, irretrievably linked to machinery designed to envelop Northern Ireland in an all-Ireland ethos and, eventually, in a unitary state. Given the trend of events, it seems that the pledges given by the Prime Minister, the promises given by the First Minister (Designate) and the other pious platitudes given by the supporters of the First Minister (Designate) are meaningless and worthless.

Although the report is not the determination sought by Irish Nationalists and Republicans, it is a delayed-action mechanism to forestall the inevitable. Whether today or on 15 February, the reality is - and the electorate of Northern Ireland must be aware of this - that democracy will be polluted and that Irish Republicans, inextricably linked to terrorism, will be admitted into the Executive. Unrepentant terrorist representatives will enter Government with their war machine not dismantled and their murderous weapons not decommissioned in a direct contravention of the agreement that they signed. On page 9, section 35, under "Transitional Arrangements", says

"In this transitional period, those members of the Assembly serving as shadow Ministers shall affirm their commitment to non-violence and exclusively peaceful and democratic means" -

and this is important -

"and their opposition to any use or threat of force by others for any political purpose."

Has Sinn Fein/IRA demonstrated that it intends only to follow the purely democratic process?

There is no reference to decommissioning in this report, and the absence of such a fundamental tenet indicates the report's weakness. Many Unionists in the constituencies are watching anxiously to see how their public representatives view the report. It is known that some Ulster Unionist Assembly Members are unhappy and uncomfortable with it and that some have expressed their outright opposition to it. This debate affords fellow Unionists the opportunity to declare their positions clearly and without equivocation.

I have no doubt about the detrimental effect that adopting this report will have on the Unionist ethos, not to mention the political Union. There is also no doubt in the minds of many of the misguided Unionists who were prepared to give the Belfast Agreement a chance that they did not vote for an agenda which included unrepentant terrorists or their representatives in Government or for the creation of all-Ireland bodies to take executive decisions. Neither did they support the agreement to see the corruption of democracy that comes from permitting Sinn Fein/IRA to retain their terrorist capacity.

3.30 pm

There can be no prospect of stable government, or the galvanising of popular support for government, while the democratic, political climate is affected by the presence of unrepentant terrorists in government. There can be no credibility while the capacity exists for a return to terrorism by those pretending to work the democratic process.

Not only is this report flawed by its dubious foundation in the Belfast Agreement, but it also fails to address, in a comprehensive manner, the issues tasked to the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate) by the Assembly on 1 July 1998.

Despite the passage of six and a half months, notwithstanding an interim report on 14 September 1998, this report today patently fails to address a considerable number of functional responsibilities - something which has already been admitted by the First Minister (Designate).

I wonder if the oversight had something to do with the overwhelming desire to accommodate unrepentant terrorists in the Government and to find positions for them, leaving aside these other functional areas. It would seem, according to the Deputy First Minister (Designate), that the idea was maximum inclusion. I can understand that concept, but it must not be at the expense of effective and efficient government. The objective of creating the machinery for these structures was abandoned in this case to placate Irish Nationalism and Irish Republicanism, thus creating jobs for the boys. It is anticipated that the unnecessary Departments will cost the taxpayer in the region of £90 million per year.

In terms of the efficiency of the proposed Departments I believe that the degree of fragmentation will prove to be a bureaucratic nightmare. There is overlap in the area of higher education, agriculture and rural development, and we have protection of the countryside and regional development, all falling into different bailiwicks. That will not prove to be a workable or a manageable way forward in terms of efficiency and effectiveness.

The electorate demands efficient and effective government. This is supposed to be an honourable institution, and we want it to remain an institution which cannot be contaminated by unrepentant terrorists. This institution must deliver accountable government on the basis of the normal principles of democracy. The report fails to establish the basis for the delivery of such an administration. I will be voting to reject it on the basis that it will not provide efficient government, that it does not address the essential requirement of decommissioning and that it also gives all-Ireland bodies the power to take executive decisions, thus impugning the political sovereignty and integrity of Northern Ireland.

Ms de Brún:

Deir Sinn Féin arís agus arís eile nach bhfeicimid Comhaontú Aoine an Chéasta mar bhun scríbe, ach mar chéim thábhachtach i bpróiséis aistrithe ó choimhlint go dtí todhchaí ina mbeimis ag comhoibriú ar mhaithe lenár bpobal uile. Is sa chomhthéacs sin a mheasaimid luach na tuairisce atá romhainn inniu.

Thig leis na forais uile-Éireann feidhmniú mar inneall láidir an phróiséis athmhuintearais ar fud an oileáin seo. Ní bheadh leithéid Chomhaontú Aoine an Chéasta ann mura mbeadh an cháipéis sin suite i gcomhthéacs uile-Éireann - rud a d'aithin na tráchtairí uilig ag an am. Agus, ar ndóigh, glactar leis sa Chomhaontú go bhfuil an Chomhairle Aireachta agus agus an Tionól idirspleách.

Tá tábhacht ar leith do náisiúinteoirí a vótáil ar son an Chomhaontaithe i gcumhacht, brí agus dinimic na Comhairle Aireachta agus na gcomhlachtaí forfheidhmithe. An ról a thiocfadh leo agus a ba chóir dóibh a imirt is é an drochthionchar de sheachtó bliain de chríochdheighilt a laghdú chomh maith le aidhmeanna, cuspóirí agus gníomhaíocht chomónta a spreagadh ar fud an oileáin i réimse leathan eacnamúil agus sóisialta.

Nuair a fuaireamar an tuairisc thearc shealadach ón Chéad-Aire (Ainmnithe) agus ón Leas Chéad-Aire (Ainmnithe) ar 14ú Meán Fómhair seo a chuaigh thart, ba é chéad fhreagra Shinn Féin cáipéis a chur amach ina raibh moltaí do sheacht gcomhlachtaí forfheidhmithe agus seacht n-ábhair do bheartas coiteann a bheadh le forfheidhmiú ar leighligh.

Is iad na hábhair a moladh do na comhlachtaí forfheidhmithe: An Ghaeilge, Infheistiú isteach, Ardú trádála agus Forbairt comhlachtaí dúchasacha, Cláracha Aontais Eorpaigh (AE), Traenáil agus Fostaíocht, Polasaí AE do Thalmhaíocht agus do Iascaireacht (CAP agus CFP) and Turasóireacht.

Is iad na hábhair do bheartais a bheidh ag forfheidhmiú go leithligh: Oideachas, Iompar, Forbairt phobail, Sláinte, Ealaín agus Oidhreacht, Timpeallacht and Fuinneamh.

Bhí cruinnithe ag Sinn Féin le státseirbhísí de chuid Rialtas na hÉireann, leis an SDLP, le Páirtí an Chomhaontais agus le Comhcheangal na mBan, Bhíomar páirteach chomh maith i sraith cruinnithe ilpháirtí faoi stiúir an Chéad-Aire (Ainmnithe) agus an LeasChéad-Aire (Ainmnithe). Phléigh uachtarán Shinn Féin moltaí s'againn leis an dá Rialtas, an Chéad-Aire agus an LeasChéad-Aire chomh maith.

Bhí an dá rialtas sásta go mbeadh ocht gcomhlachtaí forfheidhmithe ainmnithe ar dtús, agus an oíche a thug Tony Blair cuairt ar Bhéal Feirste, d'aontaigh Aontachtaithe Uladh leis sin. Tharraing siad siar as sin an lá dar gcionn.

Sa tréimhse díreach ina dhiaidh sin bhain páirtí David Trimble fad as na díospóireachtaí le go dtiocfadh leo toradh na ndíospóireachtaí a choinneáil chomh scáinteach agus ab fhéidir.

Le linn na gcaibidlí ilpháirtí a raibh Comhaontú Aoine an Chéasta mar thoradh orthu, bhí tuiscint an-láidir ann go mbeadh cúiteamh nó sólás ann do náisiúinteoirí ó thuaidh i sraith a dó agus sna hinstitiúidí uile-Éireann, de thairbhe go raibh náisiúinteoirí sásta glacadh le sraith a haon, agus leis an Tionól ach go háirithe. Ach ón chéad lá ariamh ó bunaíodh an Tionól i bhfoirm idirthréimhseach, thosaigh na hAontachtaithe a dh'iarraidh an Chomhairle Aireachta uile-Éireann a stopadh agus tábhacht agus cumhacht na gcomhlachtaí forfheidhmithe a mhaolú.

Níor ghlac Sinn Féin le moladh Páirtí Aontachtaithe Uladh go mbeadh cead acu trí chomhlacht forfheidhmithe a ainmniú nó ba léir gur iarracht e seo le brí agus tionchur na gcomhlachtaí a theorannú agus go mbeadh ar Shinn Féin, an SDLP agus Rialtas na hÉireann glacadh le trí chomhlacht a ainmniú eadrainn. Ach sin an rud a tharla ar 18ú Nollaig, le gearradh siar fiú ar shubstaint agus bhrí na dtrí chomlacht sin.

Ag deireadh na gcainteanna, rinneadh socruithe le Aontachtaithe Uladh, socruithe nach raibh chomh maith agus a thiocfadh leo bheith nó a ba chóir dóibh a bheith.

Rinneadh na socruithe seo a leanas gan tacaíocht ó Shinn Féin: infheistiú isteach a tharraingt amach as an fhoras um ardú trádála; cumhacht na gcomhlachtaí um ardú trádála agus forbairt gnó a mhaolú; suim na gcomhlachtaí a choinneáil ar an mhéid is lú a luaíodh i gComhaontú Aoine an Chéasta; agus comhlacht theoranta a chur in áit na comhlachta forfheidhmithe do thurasóireacht. Is é dearcadh s'againn go raibh na socruithe úd diúltach neamhriachtanach.

Fiú ag an phointe seo tá David Trimble ag baint úsáide as an leithscéal go bhfuil sé níos laige ná mar atá sé i bhfírinne. Níl leid ar bith ann go mbeadh páirtí David Trimble sásta fiú an méid a socraíodh ar 18ú Nollaig a chur i gcrích anois.

Aontaím leis an méid a dúirt comrádaithe de mo chuid cheana féin faoin ghéarghá atá ann le dul chun cinn a dhéanamh go práinneach agus na forais uilig a bhunú gan mhoill.

Cé go bhfuil cuid mhaith gearán againn faoin socrú a rinneadh ar an 18ú Nollaig agus faoin tslí ina ndearnadh an socrú sin, tá rud amháin soiléir: níl fáth ar bith ann nach gcuirfimis an Coiste Feidhmiúcháin agus an Chomhairle Aireachta uile-Éireann ar bun láithreach.

Sinn Fein has repeatedly stated the view that the reaching of agreement on Good Friday was not an end point but an important stage in building a bridge from the conflict of the past to a future where we can all work together for the good of all our people. It is in this context that we judge this report. The dynamic operation of all-Ireland structures can be an important engine for reconciliation throughout the island. Without the all-Ireland dimension there would have been no Good Friday Agreement. Of course, it was understood that in the agreement the Ministerial Council and the Assembly are mutually interdependent.

Nationalists who voted for the Good Friday Agreement attach considerable importance to the remit, strength and dynamic of the Ministerial Council and the all-Ireland bodies. Their effect should be to diminish the negative impact of over 70 years of partition and to encourage common purpose in unified actions throughout the island on a wide range of social and economic areas.

When we first received the scant interim report from the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate) on 14 September 1998, Sinn Fein made an initial written response, which included proposals for seven implementation bodies, and seven areas for co-operation on the basis of common policy but separate implementation.

The implementation bodies were to cover the Irish language, inward investment, trade promotion and indigenous company development, trading and employment, EU programmes, EU agriculture and fisheries policy and tourism. They were also to cover areas of common policy in education, transport, community development, health, arts and heritage, environment and energy.

We had bilateral discussions with the Irish Government, the SDLP, Alliance and the Women's Coalition. We participated in a series of round table discussions chaired by the First and Deputy First Ministers (Designate). Our party leader also discussed our proposals with both Governments, the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate).

The two Governments were happy about the establishment of eight all-island implementation bodies. On the night of Tony Blair's visit to Belfast, the Ulster Unionists also agreed to that, only to resile from it the following day. Subsequently, the UUP endlessly protracted discussions to minimise what eventually emerged.

During the negotiations that led to the Good Friday Agreement, there was a clear understanding that, in return for embracing strand one and the Assembly in particular, Nationalists would have the compensation of strand two, with the all-Ireland Ministerial Council and the implementation bodies. However, since the Assembly was established in shadow mode, the Ulster Unionists and other Unionists have prevented the establishment of the all-Ireland Ministerial Council and minimised the remit and importance of the implementation bodies.

Sinn Fein rejected the UUP's proposal that it should identify three implementation bodies, with as little substance or impact as they could, with any credibility, suggest, and that the Nationalists in this state, together with the Irish Government, should be left with only three bodies of their choosing. That is what was agreed on 18 December, with even those bodies greatly restricted in their functions.

As negotiations came to a close, agreements were reached with the UUP that fell short, in Sinn Fein's view, of what should have been achieved. The decisions to remove inward investment from the trade promotion and inward investment body, to restrict further its powers in relation to business development, to limit the number of implementation bodies to the absolute minimum laid down in the agreement and to make the tourism body a publicly-owned limited company, rather than an implementation body as before, were taken without Sinn Fein's support.

Those decisions were negative and unnecessary. Even now, the "Poor David" card is played. There is no indication that the UUP intends to implement even what they agreed on 18 December.

I agree with what my Colleagues said today about the urgent need to establish all the institutions without delay. Ulster Unionist Members and others have said that they wish to make progress and implement the agreement. I welcome that. However, what is the best way to achieve the forward movement that we all seek? Is it through exclusion? Is it through demonisation? Is it through blocking and making preconditions? Or is it through people working together in co-operation?

Mr Close:

The report is largely factual, setting out details of meetings and negotiations over the past few weeks. It has been referred to as "treachery", "fraud", "a juggernaut", "a blank cheque" and "a corruption of the democratic process" by those whose heads are still firmly stuck in the sands of yesteryear.

3.45 pm

But for those who have a vision of a better society, those who want to look towards the future, who want to cast off the shackles of the past, another piece of the jigsaw is being put in place - another step is being taken towards fulfilling people's hopes as expressed by their overwhelming support of the Good Friday Agreement. This is a step towards normality, towards a time when people will have accountable government; it is a step further along the road to stability.

I could spend a lot of time debating the number of proposed Departments, or why such-and-such a function is included in Department X rather than in Department Y, or why the six specified areas - transport, agriculture, et cetera - were identified as suitable for North/South co-operation, or why the implementation bodies are as outlined in paragraph 4.3.

I could criticise the apparent lack of detail on the British-Irish Council and the absence of progress on the Civic Forum. I could protest that today is not determination day when the Executive will be established thus enabling power to be devolved. But to what avail? The tone of today's debate does not lend itself to any critical analysis of the report.

We charged the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate) with a task which is outlined in the introduction to the report. This is the latest report on progress, and I welcome it. I welcome progress because the people wish to see progress; they wish to see the full implementation of the Good Friday Agreement as soon as is humanly possible.

Many of us feel that since we were elected the pace of progress has been extremely slow, that the lack of trust which exists in some quarters - and in large measure - is thwarting the desire of the electorate. The agreement acknowledged the substantial differences between continuing and equally legitimate political aspirations. However, there was also a commitment to strive, in every practical way, towards reconciliation and rapprochement within the framework of democratic and agreed arrangements. All who supported the agreement pledged that we would work in good faith to ensure the success of all of the arrangements that it established.

But are all those people who commended the agreement to the people and received their overwhelming endorsement sticking to their side of the bargain? I do not mean sticking to their interpretation of the agreement, but, rather, are they trying to see it from the other person's perspective? This lack of trust - particularly between Unionists and Nationalists - is tangible. It strikes me that little or no attempt has been made by some Unionists to understand fully the difficulties of their political opponents. Likewise, Sinn Fein, in particular, has done little, if anything, to recognise the problems of the Ulster Unionists. The two sides are still apparently seeking victory over each other and are creating or maintaining obstacles to progress rather than helping each other overcome them.

One key factor is, undoubtedly, the question of decommissioning. But what have the great "no-men" done to try to get this problem resolved? The Ulster Unionists have stated that they will not sit in an Executive with Sinn Fein unless and until decommissioning has commenced. On the other hand, Sinn Fein maintains that it is fulfilling its commitments under the agreement, that it is working constructively and in good faith with the independent commission and is using any influence it may have to achieve decommissioning of all paramilitary arms within two years.

Each side is continuing to sit on its high horse and accuse the other of bad faith.

Each may well have a point and can certainly justify its position to its supporters, but neither can justify its position to the other side. I contend that each is therefore breaking its pledge to the great mass of people who are demanding that we all work together to ensure the success of the whole agreement.

The vultures - whose aim it is to wreck the whole process and, ironically, to deny the voice of the majority as delivered in the referendum - are gloating and gaining succour from the present stand-off. They are still fighting the referendum campaign. Do they not understand that they have lost that fight? They tell us that they are being ignored - we have heard it again today - and that the agreement is being forced down their throats. My response to that is "Come off it". They ran away from the negotiations.

I do not believe that either the vast majority of Ulster Unionists, or Sinn Fein, wish to give victory to these abominable "no-men". I do not believe that either camp wishes to destroy the hopes or aspirations of 72% of the people who voted "yes". I do not believe that either camp wishes to walk away from that which has been achieved to date. They do not wish to see something which has positive potential being replaced by the certainty of negative despair. This report can be viewed, in some respects, like a wheelbarrow. We are using it to push the load in front of us, but we cannot keep on pushing forever. Some of us may be getting tired of pushing, and the people are certainly getting tired of watching us.

I can approve this report because it designates "D-day". February 15 is only a matter of days away. I urge all to share the remaining problems, to demonstrate again the courage which brought about the Good Friday Agreement, and to deliver to the people that which again appears to be impossible. Who would have thought that we could have come so far in 12 months? Many courageous steps have already been taken on all sides. We are tantalisingly close. Another few steps and we gain the summit. We cannot let stubbornness, tiredness or anything else get in our way now. No one, but no one, can give up now. Compromise has brought us thus far, and compromise must again be practised to bring to fulfilment our pledge to the people.

Time is short, but with patience, determination and goodwill on all sides, I am convinced that the remaining time can be put to good use. We must all get around the table and thrash out a solution to the remaining problems. Let us not, for heaven's sake, spend the next few weeks closeted in our offices blaming everyone but ourselves. It is time for everyone to stop digging holes which are already deep enough. If those with the spades do not stop digging now, then the holes will collapse around them and bury them in failure. It is time for everyone to climb out of the holes and get to the negotiating table because, as we have demonstrated before, the solution can only be found through talking.

Mr Birnie:

I want to commend this report, particularly the aspects relating to both North/South (strand two) and East/West (strand three) relationships. First of all, what did the Belfast Agreement, and, indeed, the Northern Ireland Act 1998, say about the accountability of North/South bodies? Decisions made by the North/South Ministerial Council are to be with the agreement of both sides - Strand Two. I quote from paragraph 11:

"The implementation bodies will have a clear operational remit. They will implement on an all-island and cross-border basis policies agreed in the Council".

As the second paragraph emphasises,

"Operating in accordance with the rules for democratic authority and accountability in force in the Northern Ireland Assembly."

Mr Roche:

The fact that the North/South Ministerial Council will be operating under the rules for accountability in force in the Assembly and in the Dublin parliament does not mean that the Council will be accountable to the Assembly.

Furthermore, the agreement, at paragraph 6, says

"Each side to remain accountable to the Assembly and Oireachtas respectively, whose approval, through the arrangements in place on either side, would be required for decisions beyond the defined authority of those attending."

This means that approval is not required for decisions that are within the defined authority of those attending.

Mr Birnie:

Section 52 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 prescribes cross-community representation amongst participating Northern Ireland Ministers, and this is an important point. It further provides for these Ministers to report back to the Executive and the Assembly. The Act also states that after the appointed day for transfer of powers no further implementation bodies shall be set up without the agreement of the Assembly.

I want to commend the proposals made in respect of the six implementation bodies. First, by formalising existing areas of co-operation, we will be able to make administrative improvements, for example, with regard to inland waterways and the drafting of the relevant common chapter of the Structural Funds Plan.

Secondly, there are clear issues of public interest. Information could be shared between Governments in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to deal with common difficulties - for example, in the work of the food safety body on matters such as food poisoning and animal disease. Mutual benefits will also be gained through the agreement of property rights, probably including the clearer demarcation of the frontier in Lough Foyle and Carlingford Lough. This is why we proposed the creation of the body with responsibility for aquaculture and marine matters.

If the body with responsibility for trade and business development can bring about improvements in trade, supply and procurement on both sides of the border, and this improves the employment situation in both parts of the island, then this will clearly be a win-win situation. I have tended to be sceptical about whether there really are substantial economic barriers between the two parts of the island, although there may be certain psychological barriers.

If the new trade body can help to persuade managers of firms in the Republic of Ireland that Northern Ireland companies are not hopelessly crippled by violence and instability, and, conversely, if it can convince managers in Northern Ireland that customers from the Republic of Ireland will settle their bills on time, then it will be doing a good job.

Thirdly, we want to improve the accountability of those already involved in existing cross-border co-operation. Thus, the special EU programmes body will assume responsibility for the evaluation and monitoring of the INTERREG programmes.

Fourthly, we anticipate that, in time, some of the North/South links created under strand two will be mirrored by similar East/West bodies, as dictated by mutual interest, as, for example, in the case of food safety and language promotion. This will be done through the British-Irish Council.

4.00 pm

One final consideration which illustrates the balanced nature of these proposals relates to the art of policy making, especially economic policy making, which is based on matching up policy-making institutions with policy objectives. At a time when, after a gap of a quarter of a century, power may be returned to local bodies, we have ensured that the major institutions concerned with economic and industrial policy are to remain under the control of Northern Ireland policy makers.

The Industrial Development Board, with its inward investment function, will continue to exist. Over the years, many people, including myself, have been critical of the Industrial Development Board, but I am reminded of the story of the reaction of President Roosevelt when he was told that the contemporary leader of Guatemala was "a bloody despot". Roosevelt replied "Well, at least he's our bloody despot."

Members may be aware that Roosevelt often used more colourful language than that. At least the IDB remains our institution; we can keep it under our direction to improve its performance. When we can work with the Republic of Ireland on industrial policy, we will do so. Where there is competition, that co-operation must necessarily be limited in our own economic interests. Similarly, we have kept under the exclusive control of Northern Ireland policy makers such organisations as the Tourist Board, the Local Enterprise Development Unit, the Training and Employment Agency and the Technology Unit.

I support the report. It is about realising what the Belfast Agreement called mutual interest. It is consistent with the historical record of practical North/South co-operation instituted under the Stormont Governments of the 1950s and 1960s. Some of our colleagues probably regard Lord Brookeborough as a traitor as well.

There will be overarching East/West institutions through the British-Irish Council: Northern Ireland's fundamental constitutional position within the United Kingdom remains the same. These international arrangements are unique; they are not a micromodel of European Union neofunctionalism. They offer the best prospect of creating a house which is both a warmer and a wealthier one for our peoples of various traditions.

Mr Byrne:

In common with other members of my party, I welcome the report. It is belated but nevertheless welcome. I am disappointed that it is not a final report. I supported the 18 December agreement, because it was important for us not to go into the new year without reaching agreement. The people have expectations; they elected us to do a job. They want to see continued progress, with all the institutions working, including this Assembly.

The mood of people throughout Ireland, particularly in the North, has been driven up and down since the referendum, and we have to be conscious of that mood. We have lived through 30 years of terrible pain. The public have paid a terrible price for political instability, and they do not want us to renege on our responsibilities.

We have a mandate for the agreement, and as Nationalists, we got that mandate from all of Ireland. Parties cannot use it as a political takeaway. We must take it forward in its entirety, and we all have a public and political duty to overcome the remaining obstacles. On the Nationalist side, there is concern about Unionist intentions. Equally, on the Unionist side, there is concern about the intentions of some Nationalists. Trust has to be built, and I think that we are beginning to achieve that. This debate will help in that task.

I welcome the setting up of 10 Departments, and I do not regard the alleged extra cost of £90 million as a terrible crime. The people of Northern Ireland are looking for better government, and the 10 Departments will allow a better distribution of devolved government functions. Within the office of the First Minister (Designate) and the Deputy First Minister (Designate) there is to be an economic policy unit. I welcome that because this region is not performing well economically.

Where is Ulster pride? We depend on £4 billion a year from Great Britain. One of the major tasks of the Assembly and the economic policy unit will be to devise a strategy to get away from that level of dependency. In terms of equality, we are pleased that the unit is to be sited in the office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister. Equality should not be pursued in a piecemeal way. It must be driven from the centre, and it must be implemented in all Departments.

My Colleague Sean Farren spoke about the setting up of a scrutiny committee for equality, and I think that that has also been accepted by Unionists. That is welcome, because we want to see equality implemented in all its facets. We do not want any further alienation on either the Unionist side or the Nationalist side over the way decisions are made. That has contributed enormously to our problems.

The work of the Assembly can be driven practically and effectively through its Committee system. The sooner that we can get the Departments and the relevant Committees set up, the sooner we will be able to conduct our business more effectively and efficiently.

The Committees have the potential to reflect a most important political dynamic for the effective and efficient functioning of the departments. The agreement refers to how these Committees may work. As I see it, they can play an effective role in policy formulation, and every party in the Assembly will be able to contribute to that. The Committees can scrutinise Departments and check on how they are performing. Each Committee will be the public's guardian of how executive functions are being carried out. The Committees can hold Ministers to account for the work that they will be doing. They can also carry out consultation exercises by inviting experts from outside. The Committees must be seen to function in a constructive and consensual way, and I am convinced that that is where the correct genesis for the operation of this Assembly is to be found.

Committees can also be a forum for more informed and exhaustive discussion between politicians and the Civil Service. We all know that for the past 30 years Ministers coming from Great Britain did not really understand the problems and the needs of our people. Civil servants have largely been determining policy and implementing it. I do not blame them for the way in which the place has been run, but a stronger political input into policy formulation by local politicians would have been more effective.

Policy formulation can be made more effective and specific to our needs. That terrible problem of the democratic deficit can be addressed. Those of us who have been councillors for years are aware of the difficulties in trying to lobby on issues in our constituencies.

On the North/South bodies, all Departments will have a role. I welcome what Mr Roche said about this subject, but why should we be so afraid of this? This is a small region with 1.5 million people. We do not want to continue living in splendid isolation. Economics should determine that we co-operate. Golden Vale, the Kerry Group and other companies from the South have made investments in the North. I want to see Northern Ireland companies investing in the Republic as Glen Dimplex, the Sean Quinn Group and the Hastings Group have done. Let us encourage and facilitate that.

European Union initiatives dictate that we, as a region, should have an effective, cross-border development strategy for social and economic gain. I live in a border constituency, and I know the problems of neglect in relation to infrastructure. Regional development will play an important role in those peripheral areas, and it will happen only if there is cross-border co-operation.

I want the road from Dublin to Derry, the A5, which runs through my constituency, and the A4 through Fermanagh to be upgraded. We have been deprived of investment in the past. I am not blaming anybody for that, but we were disadvantaged by an economic border.

Mr Shannon:

The report signals the death throes of democracy in Northern Ireland. We have been fatally wounded by the Belfast Agreement, and the report aims to hammer the final nails into the coffin of the cause which so many have given their lives to defend. Paragraph 3.7 of the report states

"We want to agree upon and implement a programme for government that will succeed in delivering efficient, accountable, transparent government".

The irony would have been too great for the authors of the document to include the word "democratic" in the description of the style of government they claim to strive for.

We in the DUP have remained firm in our demand that only seven Departments should be created. Those who are in the habit of caving in to Republican pressure have created the potential for a system of government that is far from efficient. A scenario has been proposed in which £90 million is to be squandered on the demands of pan-Nationalism for three extra Ministerial posts so that they will gain a wholly disproportionate number of Executive positions. That form of government cannot be described as democratic.

To be efficient, a Government must be effective and should waste as little as possible. The proposal will waste £90 million that could be spent on an ailing Heath Service in which patients must wait weeks for urgent surgery, or on upgrading our crumbling and inadequate roads. We are being blackmailed on this issue in that if the port of Belfast is not privatised we do not get the improvements. It seems that pan-Nationalism demands, and pan-Nationalism gets.

The accountable government spoken about in the report is not that which we would be familiar with or desire. Through the Belfast Agreement, accountability is to the terrorist and the gunman, and to them alone. It is at the whim of Gerry Adams and the Republican movement with their stockpiles of AK47s and Semtex. They are unchanged, and are pledged never to change. They are unconditionally committed to the destruction of this country - should that be through violence or the threat of violence, whichever brings the greater rewards. This report propagates the lie that peace is possible only through such concessions.

The fact that ongoing negotiations between a number of parties on the implementation of North/South bodies is leading to a final report, as described in this document, is most worrying. Proposals will not be part of a recommendation or part of a greater consultative process. They will result in a final report which suggests that the reality of North/South bodies is that their structures and substance will continue to be developed, irrespective of events within or without this Assembly. Many people will claim that these North/South bodies will be answerable to the Assembly.

TOP

<< Prev / Next >>