COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS:
THURSDAY, 29 NOVEMBER 2001
ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present:
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Mr Roy Beggs MLA
Mr Joe Byrne MLA
Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr William Hay MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA
Prof Monica McWilliams MLA

In Attendance:
Dr Andrew C Peoples
Ms Hilary Bogle
Mr Colin Jones
Mr Michael Meehan

Apologies:
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mrs Mary Nelis MLA

Meeting opened at 2.08pm in open session.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Draft Minutes of 22 November 2001

Agreed. Proposed: Mr Hutchinson. Seconded: Mr Byrne.

3. Matters Arising

Members considered their draft response to the Department for Trade and Industry's consultation document 'Routes to Resolution' and agreed that it should be issued to the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) (Annex 1). It was also agreed that, as requested, a copy should be issued to the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment. The Chairman commended Assembly Research for the briefing paper provided for last week's meeting. Further information from DEL on the employment tribunal process was noted.

Action: Clerk

Members considered and agreed the Committee's submission to the Northern Ireland Executive's response to the Disability Taskforce, for issue to the Committee of the Centre (Annex 2).

Action: Clerk

The Committee considered the Minister's response on several issues relating to the management of Further Education Colleges (FECs) and agreed to request further information on the recovery plans currently in place. Members also noted a press release (December 1999), detailing findings from the Northern Ireland Audit Office's examination of 'Corporate Governance and Financial Management in FECs.' It was noted that the Public Accounts Committee was currently considering this area.

Action: Clerk

Members agreed that, following receipt of further information in this area from the Department, consideration would be given to an oral briefing from officials on the financial position of FECs and the responsibilities of Boards of Governors. The National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education (NATFHE), who had recently briefed the Committee, could also be asked for a further briefing.
Members noted correspondence form the Principal Clerk of Committees on the necessity of turning off mobile phones during meetings as they interfered with both Hansard recordings and the transmission of meetings around Parliament Buildings.

2.20pm. Mrs Carson joined the meeting.

4. Briefing from Mr Gordon Davis on his experience of the New Deal Programme

Members noted the two New Deal Evaluation Reports recently issued by DEL and that further Reports, evaluating the impact of New Deal on obtaining and remaining in employment were due to be published in early 2002. Members considered a Committee Office note summarising some of the key findings from the Reports and agreed that, although improvements had been made to the New Deal programme and in general it was working well for younger, better motivated participants, much still needed to be done.

2.25pm Mr Beggs joined the meeting.

Mr Gordon Davis, a recent participant on New Deal, briefed the Committee on his experiences on the Programme. The following areas were debated:

• The low level of financial remuneration received, £15 per week, and why participants are not paid at least the National Minimum Wage.

• The positive impact of the Gateway period, including effective training on making job applications.

• Incorrect records maintained by the local JobCentre.
  

• The local JobCentre advertising jobs which were no longer vacant.
  

• The lack of an effective relationship with a New Deal Personal Adviser (NDPA),
  

• The lack of training given including the absence of Health and Safety training.
  

• The fact that the provider did nothing to build on previous skills and to match skills with demand in the local community.
  

• Quality assurance of New Deal providers to ensure that they are providing value-for-money.
  

• Duplication of work between New Deal participants and ordinary employees.
  

• The limited effect of New Deal on reducing benefit fraud.
  

2.45pm. The meeting went into closed session.

3.15pm. Prof McWilliams joined the meeting.

3.15pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting.

3.20pm. The meeting continued in open session.

Following the briefing, members debated the key issues raised. It was agreed that the Chairman should write to the Minister asking for an update on initiatives taken by his Department to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of New Deal since the last briefing in September 2000. The main issues debated at today's meeting should also be raised. It was agreed that the evidence session had given the Committee a good deal of first hand evidence, and that this process should be considered in future when appropriate.

Action: Clerk

5. Correspondence

Members considered a letter from the Clerk of the Environment Committee regarding their recent Report on 'Transport Used by Children Travelling to and from School.' Members agreed that recent correspondence between the Committee for Employment and Learning and the Minister, Dr Farren, should be copied to the Environment Committee for their information.

Action: Clerk

Members considered the Terms of Reference of the Committee of the Centre's European Inquiry and agreed that the Chairman should write to the Minister, seeking the information requested.

Action: Clerk

Members considered information from the Committee of Finance and Personnel on the current Accommodation Review in the Northern Ireland Civil Service. It was noted that an interim report was due in early December 2001, and that information in this area had already been requested from DEL.

Correspondence from the Vice-Chancellors of both Queen's University Belfast and the University of Ulster was also considered. Both universities outlined their differing polices on the treatment of students who had not fully paid tuition fees. The Committee noted that the issue was to be discussed at a future meeting between the two Vice-Chancellors, and agreed that further information should be requested from the University of Ulster in the interim.

Action: Clerk

Members noted the response of the National Union of Students-Union of Students in Ireland (NUS-USI) on the draft Equality Schemes of both Queen's University Belfast and the University of Ulster. It was noted that the Committee Office had requested these Equality Schemes. It was also noted that NUS-USI's response on the consultation on a Victims' Strategy was held in the Committee Office, for members' reference.

Members considered correspondence from the Chairman of the Governing Body for the North East Institute, expressing dissatisfaction at the lack of recognition for multi-site operations in the Department's current funding formula for the further education sector. The Clerk was directed to seek further information from the Department.

Action: Clerk

Members noted information from Learn and Grow, a charitable organisation working with the unemployed.

6. Legislation

Members considered a pre-draft Statutory Rule under the New Deal for Lone Parents (Miscellaneous Provisions) Order (Northern Ireland) 2001 and had no objections to the policy implications of the proposed legislation at this stage.

Members considered a pre-draft Statutory Rule under the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers Compensation) (Northern Ireland) Order 1999, proposing to increase the statutory amount payable to a person disabled by a disease to which the Order applies. The Clerk was directed to determine whether the increase specified was an annual increase in line with inflation and, if so, whether the relevant primary legislation permitted the annual increase to be automated without secondary legislation having to be drafted.

Action: Clerk

7. Any Other Business

Members agreed that the Committee would not issue Christmas cards.
Members noted correspondence form the Chairman of the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure providing details of a visit to Northern Ireland by the French Ministere de la Culture. It was agreed that a letter should be forwarded to the Minister as requested.

Action: Clerk

Members considered the arrangements for the meetings before the Christmas Recess. It was agreed that Assembly Research would be asked to brief the Committee on the consultation on the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) (TUPE) Regulations at next week's meeting. The Clerk was directed seek an extension to the deadline for the consultation to 11 January 2002, in order to facilitate the Committee's response.

Action: Clerk

In addition, the Clerk was requested to arrange briefings from several providers of Individual Learning Accounts.

Action: Clerk

It was agreed to have a meeting on Tuesday 11 December 2001 at 12.30pm. This would include briefings from Prof Loreto Todd on adult basic skills and from the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (NIC-ICTU) on the TUPE consultation.

Action: Clerk

8. Date and Time of Next Meeting

On Thursday 6 December 2001 at 2.00pm in Room 152 Parliament Buildings.

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 3.50pm

Dr Esmond Birnie, MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning
6 December 2001

22 November 2001 / Menu / 6 December 2001