COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER 2001
ROOM 152, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present:
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Mr Roy Beggs MLA
Mr Joe Byrne MLA
Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr William Hay MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA
Prof Monica McWilliams MLA
Mrs Mary Nelis MLA

In Attendance:
Dr Andrew C Peoples
Mr Colin Jones
Ms Anne Colville
Mr Michael Meehan
Dr Rosanne Cecil (Specialist Adviser)

Apologies:
No apologies received

Meeting opened at 2.08 pm in open session.

 

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

 

2. Approval of draft minutes of 5 July 2001

Agreed. Proposed: Mr Dallat. Seconded: Mrs Carson.

A discussion took place on the way forward in terms of the Committee's Inquiry as the agreed outcome clearly had implications for the rest of the agenda.

Debate ensued and Mr Hutchinson proposed that the visit to Denmark should be cancelled, this was seconded by Mr Hay. The Chairman put the question that the visit to Denmark should be cancelled. The motion was carried as detailed below.

Ayes: 6

Noes: 2

Ayes

Dr Birnie, Mr Beggs, Mr Carrick, Mrs Carson, Mr Hay, Mr Hutchinson

Noes

Mr Byrne, Mr Dallat

Members agreed to focus their efforts to complete and agree the Inquiry Report by the meeting of 20 September 2001, if possible.

 

3. Matters Arising

Members noted the information provided by the Department on cleaning services in Further Education Colleges.

Members considered the Department's response in relation to literacy and numeracy. It was agreed that Northern Ireland's under-performance in this area would continue to be a key priority for the Committee, and members would ask the Permanent Secretary in the forthcoming briefing to detail progress on the Department's finalisation of their Basic Skills Strategy.

Members noted the Department's information on accountability for staffing matters in further education and agreed that this would inform the Committee's Inquiry.

2.30pm. Prof McWilliams joined the meeting.

Members considered the Department's response to the Committee's submission to the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the Departmental bids for 2002/3. Members noted details of the Needs and Effectiveness Evaluation into training and vocational education.

Members noted the student finance summary table provided by the Department. It was agreed to ask the Department for details on the numbers of students refused their exam results because of late payment of fees for the academic year 2000/01.

Action: Clerk.

Members welcomed the fact that the Department had taken on board the vast majority of the Committee's recommendations in relation to its Business Plan for 2001/2, but noted that the Department had not committed to publishing a target to reduce staff absenteeism in the current business year.

 

4. Legislation

Members considered four Statutory Rules which had been laid in the Business Office, together with the Reports from the Examiner of Statutory Rules. It was agreed that:

• the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered Statutory Rule 276/2001 - The Education (Student Loans) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001 and has no objection to the Rule.

• the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered Statutory Rule 277/2001 - The Education (Student Support) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001 and has no objection to the Rule.

• the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered Statutory Rule 281/2001 - Industrial Training Levy (Construction Industry) Order (Northern Ireland) 2001 and has no objection to the Rule.

• the Committee for Employment and Learning has considered Statutory Rule 285/2001 - The Education (Grants for Disabled Graduate Students) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001 and has no objection to the Rule.

The Clerk was directed to inform the Business Office and to obtain information on the numbers of disabled postgraduate students.

Action: Clerk

2.45pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting.

 

5. Briefing from Mr Alan Shannon, Permanent Secretary, Department for Employment and Learning.

Mr Shannon outlined the key areas in the Department's future work programme to December 2001 as follows:

• Taskforce on Employability and Long Term Unemployment - an Action Plan containing proposals was to be produced by March 2002;

• Focus for Work Programme to assist the unemployed before they became eligible for New Deal. This was to be launched by October 2001;

• Special Educational Needs Disability Bill - this was being undertaken in joint consultation with the Department of Education. The legislation was to be introduced to the Assembly by April 2002;

• Basic Skills Strategy would be finalised by October 2001 and would be put out for consultation thereafter;

• Research and Development and Innovation Strategy - a policy document was due by October 2001; and

• Student Finance - preparatory work had started on those proposals, especially Access Bursaries, to be introduced for the 2002/03 academic year.

Following Mr Shannon's opening remarks members raised their concerns over the following issues:

• the reinvention of Enterprise Ulster as part of the Focus to Work Programme in light of criticism in its quinquennial review;

• the necessity for the Department's Basic Skills Strategy to be effective and well resourced and to highlight both the role of employers and the importance of standardised qualifications for tutors;

• an early and effective outcome to the introduction of the proposed Special Education Needs Disability Bill;

• how the Taskforce for Employability and Long Term Unemployment would resolve the issue of training for those caught in the 'Benefit Trap';

• an update on plans for the Work Track Programme; and

• the timescale for the Needs and Effectiveness Evaluation of training and vocational education.

3.20pm. Mrs Carson left the meeting.

 

6. Correspondence

Members agreed to address their response to the consultation on the second quinquennial review of the Labour Relations Agency after completion of their Inquiry Report. They noted the deadline for the response as 15 October 2001. It was further agreed that the Committee would seek clarification from the Minister as to the Department's decision to reinvigorate Enterprise Ulster in light of the criticism levelled at the organisation in the quinquennial review.

Action: Clerk

Members agreed to address their response to the consultation on the Taskforce for Employability and Long Term Unemployment after completion of their Inquiry Report. They noted the deadline for the response was 31 October 2001.

3.30pm. Mr Beggs left the meeting.

Prof McWilliams asked for the minutes to record her dissatisfaction with the Minister's response to the Committee's request for the Taskforce to include membership from outside the Northern Ireland Civil Service (NICS). Members agreed that the Chairman should raise this issue again and try to influence the outcome.

Action: Clerk.

Members welcomed the fact that the Department had taken on board the Committee's views in relation to the Equality Impact Assessment on the Student Finance proposals. Members agreed to monitor the impact of the student finance package.

Members noted that the Minister had welcomed the Committee's suggestion regarding expertise in curriculum and careers guidance when considering the overall composition of the membership of the new advisory bodies.

The Committee noted the correspondence on:

• the Northern Ireland Assembly Education Committee's Inquiry into Early Years Provision;

• the Department for Social Development's consultation document on a new strategic approach to urban regeneration in Northern Ireland;

• the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission on the Department for learning and Employment Bill;

• Memo from Damien Martin re the office in Brussels.

The Clerk was asked to place the relevant items on the agenda following agreement on the Inquiry Report

Action: Clerk

Members noted the offer from the Science, Technology and Engineering Programme for Schools to attend a roadshow on 11 and 12 September 2001 and to make a presentation to the Committee.

It was agreed that members would decide individually whether to attend the CITB Skillbuild Competition in October 2001. The Clerk was asked to thank the CITB on the Committee's behalf. Prof McWilliams asked that a more sensitive use of gender related language used by the CITB in their publications is raised in this letter.

Action: Clerk

3.34pm. The meeting continued in closed session.

The contents of a letter on the accountability mechanisms in further education was debated and members welcomed the fact that the Chairman was meeting with the Association of Northern Ireland Colleges (ANIC) next week.

3.38pm. The meeting returned to open session.

The Chairman reminded members of the seminar on Public Finance arranged for Wednesday 12 September 2001.

7. Inquiry into Education and Training for Industry.

Members agreed that the minutes of evidence taken by the Committee would be published in two volumes. Only those written submissions received, which related to the oral evidence sessions would be published as part of the Report, with the remainder placed in the Assembly's Library. It was noted that the Report would be placed on the Assembly's website, and that all minutes of evidence had already been sent for inclusion on the website.

The Chairman commended the Committee Office staff and Dr Rosanne Cecil for their work over the summer.

The Committee debated the proposed structure that the report would follow. Members made the following suggestions which Dr Cecil would incorporate into her revision.

• Section 1 should be clearly identified as a summary of those studies taken into consideration as background material by the Committee. It should be emphasised that these did not necessarily represent the Committee's views.

• The Report is to include, if possible, more statistics on the outcomes of training in Northern Ireland. Again if possible these should be benchmarked to the rest of the United Kingdom and other parts of the world.

Action: Clerk

It was agreed that a revised Section 1 and 2 would be issued for consideration at next week's meeting, and that the Chairman's draft conclusions and recommendations would be tabled. Members agreed to send any comments in relation to the report to the Clerk before next week's meeting.

8. Research, Development and Innovation Strategy

Members agreed that they should respond to the consultation on the Research, Development and Innovation Strategy by 14 September 2001. Members considered a draft response tabled by the Chairman, and agreed that the Clerk would amend the paper for final consideration at the next meeting, to include the following points:

• The Research Assessment Exercise (RAE) evaluation of research in Northern Ireland may not sufficiently ensure that research is relevant to Northern Ireland's economic requirements.

• Clarification should be sought on the Department's view of Northern Ireland Economic Council's (NIEC) recommendation that there should be a split in funds allocated as a result of the RAE assessment, with a small percentage of the total block of money for University research being targeted specifically at research specific to Northern Ireland's development. More particularly would that development be defined as exclusively economic (i.e. excluding social, cultural etc)?

Action: Clerk

9. Any Other Business

Members agreed that the Chairman should accept the invitation to present the Investors in People award to the Department for Employment and Learning.

10. Date and Time of Next Meeting

On Thursday 13 September 2001 at 2.00pm in Room 152, Parliament Buildings.

The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 4.05pm.

Dr Esmond Birnie, MLA
Chairman, Committee for Employment and Learning
13 September 2001