HIGHER AND FURTHER EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY, 15 FEBRUARY 2001

Present:
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Mervyn Carrick MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs MLA
Mrs Joan Carson MLA
Mr John Dallat MLA
Mr Roger Hutchinson MLA
Mr John Kelly MLA
Ms Monica McWilliams MLA
Ms Mary Nelis MLA

In Attendance:
Dr Andrew C Peoples (Committee Clerk)
Mr Colin Jones (Assistant Clerk)
Ms Anne Colville (Executive Support)

Ms Catherine McGrattan (Committee Assistant)

Apologies:
Mr Joe Byrne MLA
Mr William Hay MLA

Meeting opened at 2.10pm in closed session.

The Clerk informed members that both the Chair and Deputy Chair had apologised for late arrival and it was therefore necessary to elect a Chairperson. The Clerk took the Chair. Mr Hutchinson proposed that Mr Dallat take the Chair; Mr Beggs seconded this. The question was put that Mr Dallat takes the Chair. This was agreed by all members.

Mr Dallat in the Chair.

1. Apologies

Apologies are detailed above.

2. Approval of draft minutes of 8 Febuary 2001

Agreed. Proposed: Roger Hutchinson. Seconded: Roy Beggs.

3. Matters arising

Members considered a summary of the Department's bids for the current round of allocations from the five Executive Programme Funds. It was agreed that the Clerk would produce a more detailed summary for examination at next week's meeting. Members could then decide whether further action was necessary. Members were reminded that the paper was confidential.

Action: Clerk.

2.15pm. Mr Carrick joined the meeting and took the Chair.

2.20pm. The meeting continued in open session.

It was agreed that the visit to Denmark would take place from Tuesday 13 - Friday 16 March 2001 and to travel by business class. This costed an additional £50 per person but offered more flexibility, for example a full refund could be obtained if flights had to be changed or cancelled. Dr Birnie; Mr Carrick; Mr Beggs; Mr Dallat; Mr Hay; Mr Hutchinson and Mr Kelly were available to travel. Mr Byrne; Ms McWilliams and Ms Nelis were unavailable. Clerk to check Ms Carson's availability.

Action: Clerk.

2.30pm. Dr Birnie joined the meeting and took the Chair.

2.35pm. Ms Carson joined the meeting.

Members considered a paper from the Chair and Deputy Chair detailing their views on the five documents currently with the Committee for consultation, as listed below. Members agreed with the views as expressed in the paper and accepted that members with specific interests could respond individually rather than through the Committee. The following action was agreed:

"Unlocking Creativity" - as the Culture Arts and Leisure Committee would be responding as the lead Committee, the HFETE Committee would not respond.

"Proposals to speed up Industrial Tribunals in Equal Pay cases and the implementation of the Burden of Proof Directive" - the Committee would respond on the proposals concerning the Industrial Tribunals, with the Committee of the Centre examining the implementation of the Burden of Proof directive. Officials would be asked to attend on 22 February and a response agreed at the meeting on 1 March.

"National Training Organisations" - as this areas was relevant to the current Inquiry, the Committee would respond by 30 March.

"Young Workers Directive" - the Committee would not examine this document.

The Department of Trade and Industry's Green Paper on "Work and Parents" - Assembly Research would be asked to identify any issues of particular relevance to Northern Ireland, before members decided how to treat this document. It could form part of a later Inquiry on those aspects specific to Northern Ireland, to enable the Committee to influence local policy. Members noted the response date of 7 April 2001.

Action: Clerk.

2.35pm. Ms McWilliams joined the meeting.

Members agreed that an article from the Chairperson should be issued to the Editor of the Economic and Business Outlook.

Action: Clerk.

4. Chairperson's Business

Members noted a Research paper on the core functions of QCA, NICCEA and NICATS; the latter two would be giving evidence at today's meeting.

5. Evidence from representatives of the Northern Ireland Credit Accumulation and Transfer System (NICATS)

As part of the Committee's Inquiry into "Education and Training for Industry," the Committee took evidence from Professor Peter Roebuck, Chairman; Dr Caroline Egerton, Assistant Director and Ms Diane Patton, Assistant Director. Representatives discussed the following areas with members:

• practical workings of the system, including engagement with the community and voluntary sector, and how this would facilitate increased access;

• the establishment of links with business and industry and how they can expect to benefit from the system;

• time limits on accumulation and the marketing of the new system;

• the effectiveness of the system in Northern Ireland and the use of generic level descriptors; and

• whether the transferability of credit could dilute the contribution of traditionally distinct educational sectors

2.55pm. Mr Kelly left the meeting.

6. Evidence from the Northern Ireland Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment

As part of the Inquiry, the Committee took evidence from Dr Alastair Walker, Head of Education Services; Mr Roger McCune, Development Manager and Mr Cecil Holmes, Principal Officer. Members questioned representatives on the following topics:

• the potential difficulties in devising a curriculum which both provides for economic needs and fulfils its duty of providing education in the widest sense;

• how best to influence attitudes towards vocational qualifications;

• CCEA's role in advancing the concept of Lifelong Learning;

• the success of current pilot schemes in improving motivation and attitudes; and

• the quality of careers guidance in schools.

The CCEA issued a policy document to members which was to remain confidential until the end of February.

4.15pm. Ms McWilliams left the meeting.

7. Correspondence

Members noted the advance copy of the 2000/01 Spring Supplementary Estimates and the 2001/02 Vote on Account received from the Finance and Personnel Committee. It was agreed that these were relatively small changes in expenditure, mainly in areas which were "demand-led."

Members considered correspondence form the Department on the changes made to Phase 2 of the Walsh Visa Programme. It was agreed that Ms Nelis should pass details of a specific enquiry to the Clerk, and the Chair would then write to the Minister.

Members noted further information requested from the Open University on the quality of teaching provided and the composition of Open University students.

Members considered the following Statutory Rules which had been laid in the Business Office subject to negative resolution:

• SR 37/2001 The Industrial Tribunals (1996 Order) (Application of Conciliation Provisions) Order (Northern Ireland) 2001;

• SR 38/2001 Recognition and Derecognition Ballots (Qualified Persons) Order (Northern Ireland) 2001; and

• SR 39/2001 Trade Union Recognition (Method of Collective Bargaining) Order (Northern Ireland) 2001.

In addition, members also considered a proposed Statutory Rule at pre-draft stage, to increase the limits applying to certain awards of industrial tribunals, and other amounts payable under employment legislation.

It was agreed that members would reflect on these pieces of legislation and inform the Clerk, if they wished to call officials for further briefing at next week's meeting.

Members were content with the policy issues of these four pieces of secondary legislation

8. Any other business

The Chair informed members that, along with other Committee Chairs, he had met with Mr Gerry Loughran, Head of the Northern Ireland Civil Service. Mr Loughran will produce a paper on the establishment of conventions for sharing information with Assembly Committees. The Chair would also meet informally with Dr Kenneth Bishop to discuss the role of PhD qualifications in the labour market.

Members noted the Northern Ireland Government Department's response to the Northern Ireland Economic Council's Report on "Publicly Funded R&D and Economic Development in Northern Ireland", which had been sent by the Minister. The complete document is available in the HFETE Committee Office.

9. Date and time of next meeting

The next meeting of the Committee is to be held on Thursday, 22 February 2001 at 2.00pm in Room 152 in Parliament Buildings.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 4.40pm.

Esmond Birnie
Dr Esmond Birnie MLA
Chairperson, Higher and Further Education, Training and Employment Committee
22 February 2001

8 February 2001 / Menu / 22 February 2001