Present: Dr E Birnie (Chairman)
Mr M Carrick (Deputy Chairman)
Mr R Beggs
Mr J Dallat
Mr R Hutchinson
Mr J Kelly

In Attendance: Mrs E Sung
Mr C Jones
Miss A Colville
Mrs C McGrattan

1. Apologies

Joe Byrne, Joan Carson, William Hay and Mary Nelis.

Roger Hutchinson for early departure (3:15pm).

2. Draft Minutes of Meeting on 23 November 2000

Agreed as amended.

3. Matters Arising

3.1 Meeting with Minister 27 November

Noted.

Chair and Deputy Chair had asked to meet with the Minister for further discussion on Student Finance, and to heal any divisions which may have occurred as a result of the recent debate. The Minister had reiterated his concerns on the Committee's report, and its handling. He had agreed to attend the Committee meeting on 14 December, subject to arrangements for the US Presidential visit.

Mr Kelly asked that, as a matter of procedure, Members be informed in advance of such meetings in the future, so that they could contribute - he noted that the Minister was aware of the Committee's intention to put a motion for debate, which was decided in open session. It was generally agreed that the Chair and Deputy Chair should have considerable freedom in representing the Committee's views.

The Chairman has sought clarification from the Department, on both the costings of the Committee's recommendations on Student Finance, and the figures quoted by the Minister during the debate.

3.2 Agenda for 14 December Meeting

The Minster had asked for an agenda, covering the areas which may be discussed on 14 December.

Agreed.

A draft agenda was examined and agreed. Chairman will issue to the Minister, along with an invitation to attend the meeting on 14 December.

3.3 T&EA Status

Draft letter highlighting the Committee's concerns on the removal of the T&EA's Agency status, and seeking further clarification on several issues, was agreed for issue to the Minister.

3.4 Walsh Visa

Information on recommendations arising from the review of the Programme was provided, along with a short paper identifying possible gaps in assurance arrangements.

Agreed.

These would be considered at the next meeting. Any further concerns would need to be registered with the Department as soon as possible, as recruitment was due to recommence in January 2001.

3.5 Labour Market Bulletin

Noted.

Labour Market Bulletin 14, received from DHFETE, had been issued to all Members.

3.6 Enquiry into Education and Training for Industry

A paper detailing the merits of a European visit was tabled. Members are to reflect on this and discuss at the next meeting how the cost of such a visit could be reduced, either by limiting the numbers travelling, or reducing the itinerary to cover only one country. The Clerk will obtain further costings for examination.

Noted.

Over 80 submissions had been received and were being analysed. A summary of the main issues from the first set of submissions received would be tabled at the next meeting.

The CBI had asked whether their submission could be made public. Submissions remained the property of those making them. However, Members expressed concerns that, if submissions were made public now, before the Committee had an opportunity to examine them, they could be "doorstepped" by the Press. The impact of the Committee's report could also be reduced if the main issues covered in submissions are published.

Agreed.

There were likely to be few requests for submissions to be made public. However, for the next meeting, the Clerk would seek advice from the Clerk of Committees including on any precedent set by other Committees.

4.0 Evidence Session for Committee Enquiry

The Committee heard evidence from three sets of witnesses in relation to their enquiry into Education and Training for Industry. Hansard officially recorded the evidence session, the transcript of which will be officially published and placed on the Committee website in due course.

4.1 Association of Northern Ireland Colleges (ANIC)

The Committee took evidence from the following officials from ANIC:

Rose Lavery (Chair), John Blayney (Vice Chair), Raymond Mullan (Immediate Past Chair), Brian Turtle (Treasurer). Additionally the following representatives from industry fielded Members' questions: David Elliott (British Telecom), Sam Davidson (Nortel), Peter Gavan (Veridian Group) and Lyn McBriar (Eurest Sutcliffe).

Questions were asked in the following areas:

• Developing relationships between industry and education and FE's role in meeting industry's needs.

• ANIC's relationship with government and public bodies, including IDB, the T&EA and LEDU.

• Proposals for improving Careers Guidance.

• Lack of coherence of Higher and Further Education qualifications in Tailoring training packages to meet community needs.

• The problems of under-employment.

• Image problems of the FE sector.

• Benefit traps.

• Competition amongst FE colleges for limited funding, fragmentation, better focussing the contribution of colleges.

• Sub-degree level qualifications.

4.2 North West Institute of Higher and Further Education

Peter Gallagher (Director) and Seamus Murphy (Deputy Director) responded to questions on:

• Widening access.

• The sector's role in providing vocational and employability skills.

• Cohesion between the FE sector and the universities.

• Liaison with colleges in the Republic of Ireland.

• Allegiance to National Programmes such as GNVQs.

• The future of FE in lifelong learning, especially community based education.

• The rationale behind the creation of Foundation Degrees.

• The contribution FE colleges can make by applied research to help SMEs.

• International comparisons.

4.3 Munster Simms Engineering

Following a short presentation, which recognised both the improvements to, and the structural weaknesses of the NI economy, Dr Alan Lennon (Managing Director) gave his views in response to Members questions on:

• Models to improve Careers Guidance and give it a strategic focus.

• The importance of links between SMEs and FE.

• The involvement of FE colleges in applied research.

• Business funding for Further Education.

• Suggestions for improvements at sub-degree level, especially in comparison to the Germanic model.

• The way forward for FE colleges.

5.0 Chairman's Business

5.1 Budget 2001/02

Noted.

An advance copy of the Finance and Personnel Committee's report on the draft budget was distributed. A published copy will be issued to all Members in preparation for the budget debate and vote on 18 December. A reference to "the allocation and ringfencing arrangements for the transfer of the Welfare to Work provision" has been requested, on the Committee's behalf, in the DFP Committee's summary of our Report.

5.2 Government Finance

Agreed.

Clerk to inform the Clerk of Committees that Members generally would be interested in a course on Government Finance, subject to the timing and duration of the course.

6. Any Other Business

6.1 Press Notice

Noted and agreed.

A Press Notice had not yet been prepared for the meeting on 7 December as arrangements were only confirmed today. This will be prepared and agreed by the Chairman for issue prior to next week's meeting.

6.2 Date of Next Meeting

On Thursday 7 December at 2:00 pm, to include evidence on Further Education issues from Patrick Murphy, (Director of BIFHE), as well as DHFTE officials, who will provide evidence on Careers Advice and Guidance issues.

Meeting closed at 5:20 pm.

ESMOND BIRNIE
Committee Chairman

23 November 2000 / Menu / 7 December 2000