MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS OF
THE HEALTH, SOCIAL SERVICES AND PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE
AT 2:00 PM ON WEDNESDAY, 04 SEPTEMBER 2002
IN ROOM 135, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS

Present: Dr J Hendron (Chairman)
Ms P Armitage
Mr P Berry
Mrs A Courtney
Rev R Coulter
Mr T Gallagher (Deputy Chairman)
Mr T Hamilton
Mr J Kelly
Ms M McWilliams
Ms S Ramsey
Mrs I Robinson

In Attendance: Mr P Hughes (Committee Clerk)
Mr D Harkin (Assistant Clerk)
Mr D Gordon (Executive Support)
Mr W Long (Executive Support)
Mr Chris Thomas (NHS Management Trainee)

Dr Hendron took the Chair at 2:03 pm.

Private Session

1. Chairman's Opening Remarks

i. The Chairman welcomed Mr Chris Thomas, NHS Management Trainee, who is on secondment to the Committee until 04 October 2002.

ii. Agreed: All future formal Committee meetings will be held in public session except for those items that the Chairman, in consultation with members, decides should be held in private session.

iii. The Chairman reported on the morning's very useful briefing by Assembly Research Services on the paper commissioned by the Committee on local Health Service Structures. The document examined the current and proposed models for health services, accessibility issues and the financing of health, including international comparisons of national funding systems for health.

Public Session

2. Minutes of Proceedings

The minutes of the meeting of 03 July 2002 were agreed.

Agreed: Future minutes of proceedings will attribute members' names to specific significant points of concern that they raise.

3. Matters Arising

i. Agreed: Members considered a draft Committee response to the Executive's Position Report on the Programme for Government. The Clerk will redraft the response for consideration at next week's meeting, to reflect members' concern that the Department be in a position to substantiate fully and clearly all bids for additional resources for health as an Executive priority.

ii. Agreed: The Clerk will issue a letter to relevant organisations seeking comments on progress in the establishment of the new Local Health and Social Care Groups. The responses will inform the Committee on the major issues arising from the new primary care arrangements, in advance of the Department being invited to brief the Committee on the matter in October 2002.

iii. Members were unanimous in their support for a substantial pay increase for the Northern Ireland Fire Brigade, to properly reflect the critical public service role that its officers fulfil, including the attendant significant risks that they face. There was deep concern about the implications for public safety if a strike were to go ahead.

Agreed: The Clerk will write to the Department for an urgent update on the latest position in relation to the Fire Brigade's pay claim and the implications for the Budget if a higher than anticipated pay award is settled. He will also request details of contingency measures that the Department has put in place, in the event of strike action. The letter will be copied to the Fire Brigade Union. The Committee will consider the most appropriate means to pursue the matter further following the Department's response.

iv. Mrs Courtney raised concern about recent attacks against Ambulance Service staff in Derry and the theft of equipment from vehicles. Members reiterated their serious alarm about the ongoing attacks on emergency services personnel across Northern Ireland.

Agreed: The Chairman will write to the Minister to highlight the Committee's concerns and to request details of the level of resources for measures to address this growing problem, including the pilot community education awareness programme for children and young people. The letter will be copied to the Chairpersons of the four HSS Boards, the Chief Executive of the Ambulance Service and the new Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland. A press release will also issue on the matter.

Ms McWilliams and Mr Hamilton joined the meeting at 2.15pm and 2.23 pm respectively.

[2.15pm]

4. Subordinate Legislation

i. General Medical Services (Amendment No.2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

Agreed: That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee is content with the Department's proposal for General Medical Services (Amendment No.2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002.

Agreed: The Clerk will write to the Department for further information on the rationale for restricting the availability of certain glucosamine products on health service prescription.

ii. The Health and Personal Social Services (Superannuation) (Amendment No.3) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

Agreed: That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee is content with The Health and Personal Social Services (Superannuation) (Amendment No.3) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

iii. The Health and Personal Social Services (Superannuation) (Additional Voluntary Contributions) (Amendment No.3) Regulations (Northern Ireland)

Agreed: That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee is content with The Health and Personal Social Services (Superannuation) (Additional Voluntary Contributions) (Amendment No.3) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002.

iv. Northern Ireland Practice and Education Council for Nursing and Midwifery - Draft Statutory Rules

Agreed: That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee is content with the draft statutory rules in respect of the Northern Ireland Practice and Education Council for Nursing and Midwifery.

v. Fire Services (Appointment and Promotion) (Amendment) Regulations 2002

The Committee considered a paper on the legal position in relation to the proposal to extend the pool of potential applicants beyond the UK. The advice of the Assembly's Legal Services was that the proposal was prudent risk management as the current 1979 regulations probably contravene the application of EU law by, in effect, reserving posts to UK nationals.

Some members voiced concern about the implications of the proposal, including the potential adverse effect on staff morale, while others were supportive of the Regulation.

Agreed: The Clerk will invite the Fire Brigade Union to provide clarification of its objections to the proposal, in light of the legal advice that the Committee has received.

vi. Statutory Rule No. 264/2002 - Food for Particular Nutritional Uses (Addition of Substances for Specific Nutritional Purposes) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

Question put and agreed to:

That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee has considered:

Statutory Rule No. 264/2002 - Food for Particular Nutritional Uses (Addition of Substances for Specific Nutritional Purposes) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

and, subject to the Examiner of Statutory Rules being satisfied as to its technical effectiveness, has no objection to the Rule.

vii. Statutory Rule No. 263/2002 - Feeding Stuffs (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

Question put and agreed to:

That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee has considered:

Statutory Rule No. 263/2002 - Feeding Stuffs (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

and, subject to the Examiner of Statutory Rules being satisfied as to its technical effectiveness, has no objection to the Rule.

viii. Statutory Rule No. 262/2002 - Contaminants in Food (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

Question put and agreed to:

That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee has considered:

Statutory Rule No. 262/2002 - Contaminants in Food (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

and, subject to the Examiner of Statutory Rules being satisfied as to its technical effectiveness, has no objection to the Rule.

ix. Statutory Rule No. 238/2002 - Animal By-Products (Identification) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

Question put and agreed to:

That the Health, Social Services and Public Safety Committee has considered:

Statutory Rule No. 238/2002 - Animal By-Products (Identification) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2002

and, subject to the Examiner of Statutory Rules being satisfied as to its technical effectiveness, has no objection to the Rule.

[2.40pm]

5. Committee Business Programme

The Clerk explained the draft Committee Business Programme from September 2002 to January 2003, which is dominated by the Inquiry into child protection services, the Protection of Children and Vulnerable Adults Bill and the HPSS (Quality Improvement and Regulation) Bill. The forward work schedule also takes account of the Committee's requirement to undertake the Committee Stage of the Private Member's Bill on Area Child Protection Committees, in the event of its introduction.

Agreed: The Committee agreed the draft list of witnesses to give oral evidence to the inquiry, including a timetable of evidence sessions. The Clerk underlined the need for the additional meetings in the short term, in order to be able to meet a number of important deadlines within a packed schedule of work. He also confirmed that a quorum would be required for the oral evidence hearings.

[2.50pm]

6. Protection of Children and Vulnerable Adults Bill - Briefing

Assembly Research Services: Dr Janice Thompson

Dr Thompson spoke to a briefing paper outlining the key provisions of the Bill, which include:

• Placing the Pre-Employment Consultancy Service Register onto a statutory basis;
• Requiring "child care organisations" to refer, to the DHSSPS, an individual who has been dismissed, transferred or suspended on the grounds of misconduct for harming a child or placing a child at risk of harm;
• Placing a similar duty on employment agencies, nursing agencies and employment businesses to refer those whom they have decided not to supply for work, or further work, in a "child care position";
• Establishing an appeal process for those who have been placed on the Register by the DHSSPS;
• Making it a requirement for a "child care organisation" to both, check the Register before offering employment, and where an individual is found to be on it, not to offer employment in a child care position;
• Facilitating other organisations such as sporting or uniformed organisations to carry out vetting and make referrals to the DHSSPS;
• A system of accreditation for organisations falling outside the legal definition of "child care organisation";
• Creating new "whistleblowing" procedures, for employees in child care organisations to use, if they become aware that the organisation is failing to carry out properly either pre-employment checks or referrals to the DHSSPS;
• Placing obligations on courts to impose "Disqualification Orders" on individuals charged or convicted of certain offences against children and establishing a criminal offence of a "disqualified person" knowingly applying for, offering, accepting or doing any work in a regulated position;
• The proposals for the protection of vulnerable adults are broadly similar to those for children: providers of care services, within both public and private healthcare settings, will be required to refer individuals for inclusion on a list, held by the DHSSPS, of those deemed unsuitable to work with vulnerable adults. The conditions for referral will be similar to those concerning work with children.

Some issues for consideration by the Committee in its scrutiny of the Bill include:

• The possibility that the checking role with regard to the PECS could transfer to the Criminal Records Office (CRO) in Northern Ireland, which has established links with the CRO in Scotland and the Criminal Records Bureau in England and Wales;
• Whether the Department will be able to access "enhanced criminal record certificates" (i.e. "soft" police intelligence) in addition to criminal records;
• The argument by the NI Human Rights Commission that the Bill creates a two-tier level of protection for children by making a distinction between child care organisations and other organisations, in contravention of the state's duty of protection under international law;
• The conditions associated with applications to the Social Care Tribunal - for example, the nature of the offence that caused the person to be listed may be of relevance to the minimum time period before an application can be made to the Tribunal. There is also the question of whether the remit of the Tribunal could be extended to hear appeals from organisations that have referred individuals for inclusion on the register, which have been refused by the DHSSPS;
• The Department "may" provide for accreditation, but there might be an argument for placing this proposal on a firmer footing in the primary legislation; this scheme is also restricted to the protection of children but may have relevance to the protection of vulnerable adults involved in groups run by voluntary organisations;
• Further clarification may be sought on how the Department will deal with anonymous information and the reason why the Bill does not include a "whistleblowing" Clause in respect of vulnerable adults;
• The broad definition of "vulnerable adult" is an area of concern (comparable legislation has been delayed in England and Wales because of problems with this definition);
• The question of whether certain offences against children should mean disqualification regardless of the sentence, or when prosecution fails or offenders are placed on probation. The issue of disqualification does not extend to vulnerable adults;
• Concerns have been expressed about the lack of comparable vetting arrangements in the Republic of Ireland;
• Resource implications - will checks on volunteers be supplied free of charge?

Departmental Officials: Mr John Clarke
Ms Eilish McDaniel

Mr Clarke gave a brief overview of the purpose and provisions of the Bill, which was followed by a brief question-and-answer session. The proceedings are recorded separately in verbatim minutes of evidence.

Agreed: The Clerk will make arrangements for the Northern Ireland Office to be invited to give oral evidence in relation to Part V of the Police Act, which has yet to be enacted in Northern Ireland.

The meeting was suspended at 3.40pm and resumed at 3.46pm.

Ms Ramsey and Rev R Coulter left the meeting at 3.40pm and 4.00pm respectively.

7. Committee Bills Briefing

Assembly Bill Office: Mr Martin Wilson

Mr Wilson spoke to a briefing paper setting out the stages for the introduction of Committee Bills and Private Member's Bills, as well as advising on general timescales involved and the facility for Committees to avail of the Assembly Legislative Drafting Service.

[4.30pm]

8. AOB

i. Agreed: The Committee will accept the offer of a presentation by Nexus on its work with adult victims of sexual abuse. The Clerk will arrange an informal lunchtime meeting.

ii. Agreed: The Committee will accept the offer by the Belfast City Hospital Trust of a briefing update on the development of regional cancer services. The Clerk will arrange a suitable date and time.

ii. The Committee noted a letter from the Southern HSS Board offering a presentation to the Committee on the Board's analysis of the proposals for modernising hospitals.

Agreed: The Committee will consider the offer in the overall context of responses to its consultation exercise on Developing Better Services. A letter from a Dr CK Deeny, Chair of the Omagh and District General Practitioners' Association, will also be addressed in that context.

iii. The Committee noted an invitation from the Southern HSS Board to attend the next meeting of its Managing Acute Pressures Group on Monday, 16 September 2002 at 9.30am in the Boardroom, SHSSB, Tower Hill, Armagh.

iv. Agreed: The Clerk will liaise with his counterpart on the Education Committee to arrange a joint Committee meeting with the Chest Heart & Stroke Association on Wednesday, 02 October 2002, for a briefing on the "Young at Heart" Report.

v. The Committee noted a letter from the Royal Irish Academy inviting members to a conference entitled "Making Sense of Sellafield" in Academy House, Dublin on Thursday, 26 September 2002.

vi. Agreed: The Clerk will arrange for Departmental Officials to brief the Committee on the results of its current consultation process on the Five-Year Tobacco Action Plan.

vii. Agreed: The Clerk will arrange for Departmental Officials to brief the Committee on the Information and Communications Technology Strategy consultation exercise, particularly in the context of the new primary care arrangements, the proposals for acute hospital services and the linkages between the two.

viii.The Clerk has lodged the Committee's proposed amendments to the Children (Leaving Care) Bill with the Bill Office, for the Consideration Stage, which is scheduled for Monday, 16 September 2002. He will liaise with Departmental Officials to confirm the Department's current position on to the Committee's proposal to remove clause 6, particularly with regard to the resource implications. The matter will be placed on the agenda for discussion at next week's meeting.

ix. Agreed: Following a concern raised by the Deputy Chairman in relation to health hazards associated with the erection of mobile phone masts, the Clerk will obtain up-to-date information on this matter, including details of consultation requirements with the Department at the planning stage.

x. The Chairman reminded members of the launch by the Royal College of Nursing of its Health Manifesto at 11.00am in the Long Gallery on Monday, 09 September 2002.

xi. The Committee noted an invitation to meet with senior trades union and health service managers from New York "League of Voluntary Hospitals and the Service Employees International Union" in Belfast on Friday, 13 September 2002.

xii. The Committee noted an invitation from the Eastern HSS Board to attend a workshop on Monday, 07 October 2002 in the Kings Hall Conference Centre entitled "Patient Choice and Discharge Delays-Striking the Balance".

xiii. The Committee noted letters advising of the consultation exercises in relation to the Strategic Planning Bill and the Employment Bill. The Clerk will raise any issues relevant to the Committee at next week's meeting.

xiv. The Chairman advised members of an invitation to the Committee to attend the launch by Action Cancer of its Breast Cancer Awareness Month at Action Cancer House at 10.30am on Tuesday, 17 September 2002.

xv. The Chairman referred to a letter from Diabetes UK voicing concern at the inadequate attention being given to this problem and undertook to raise the matter at next week's meeting.

xvi. The Committee noted the consultation document 'Unfinished Business: Proposal for a Reform of the Senior House Officer grade'.

xvii. The Clerk will check the draft guidance on the Carers and Direct Payments Act (Northern Ireland) to confirm that it covers the points raised by the Committee in its scrutiny of the Personal Social Services (Amendment) Bill.

xviii.The Clerk will place on the agenda for next week's meeting the issue of the new drugs to treat severe arthritis such as Remicade, which have not yet been made available on the NHS in Northern Ireland.

xix. The Committee noted three recently issued documents by the Department on its workforce planning initiative.

9. Date and Time of the Next Meeting

The next meeting will be at 2:00 pm on Wednesday, 11 September 2002 in Room 135, Parliament Buildings.

The meeting ended at 4.50 pm.

DR J HENDRON
COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN

September 2002

3 July 2002 / Menu / 11 September 2002