Rev Dr William McCrea (Chairperson)
Ms Lewsley (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Coyle
Mr Ford
Mrs Nelis
Mr Watson

Mr D Bell ) Department of
Mr N Simmons ) the Environment
Mrs E Harkness )

The Chairperson: I welcome Mr David Bell, Mr Norman Simmons and Mrs Ethne Harkness from the Department of the Environment.

Mr Simmons, we are told that some of our progress has been halted. We have not received the proposed amendments or the necessary approval from the Minister that would allow us to carry out the clause-by-clause reading. We promised to be as helpful as possible, and we are trying to do that. We do not want any undue delay.

Mr Simmons: I shall begin by clarifying the current position. You will recall that in the letters sent by the Department to the Committee on 28 August and 18 September we indicated that the Minister had approved the tabling of six amendments at Consideration Stage. Those are the six amendments that were discussed and agreed with the Committee on previous occasions. The reason that we cannot provide a ministerial letter to the Committee at this stage is that such a letter would also have to include the two further amendments, which have been discussed over the last few weeks.

Following last week’s meeting, we worked on the Committee’s suggestions and discussed them with legal advisers. On foot of that, we have put a package of proposals to the Minister. Until he gives us his decisions on it, we are not in a position to discuss the details of those amendments any further. However, we can again clarify for the Committee the thinking behind our rationale on those amendments. We hope to have that decision shortly so that a full letter from the Minister can be sent to the Committee before next week’s meeting.

The Chairperson: We want to make progress, and we want to assure the Department, the Minister and the Assembly that we do not wish to hinder the clause-by- clause reading of the Bill.

Mr Simmons: We are anxious for the Minister’s letter to be comprehensive and to deal with all the issues. We hope that it will be available in advance of the Committee’s meeting next week.

The Chairperson: What do you intend to deal with this morning then?

Mr Simmons: We do not have much to deal with, but we are happy again to provide the Committee with clarification on our thinking behind the two amendments, if that would be helpful.

The Chairperson: What do you mean by "our thinking behind the two amendments"?

Mr Simmons: It is our thinking behind our conclusions on the two amendments — much the same as we discussed last week with the Committee.

The Chairperson: Is there anything else to add to what was said last week?

Mr Simmons: No, there is nothing.

Mr Ford: I assume that the officials are not stating that they are now prepared to tell us that they have recommended to the Minister that he should accept everything said by the Committee.

Quite properly, officials are there to advise the Minister and not to advise the Committee. I take the point that there does not seem to be much more progress that the Committee can make, despite all the Committee’s efforts to comply with the timetable that we agreed. The ball does seem to rest in the Department’s court and not ours at the moment.

Mr Simmons: Yes, I accept that. The letter from the Minister will be comprehensive, and it will deal with all the amendments, not just the six already agreed.

Mrs Nelis: This seems to be a considerable waste of your time, and certainly a considerable waste of Committee time. We hoped to conclude the clause-by-clause reading today, as we had considerable discussion on these two amendments last week. We hoped that the Minister would take forward your recommendations and provide us with a letter allowing us to proceed with the clause-by- clause reading. There is a timescale to this, apart from the time wastage. I find it disappointing that the Minister has not done this.

Mr Simmons: It is to be hoped that the Minister will respond quickly on these matters, and we can then provide the Committee with a full letter on all the amendments. To have simply provided a letter on the six amendments would probably not have progressed matters much further either. The letter from the Minister will be comprehensive, and it will deal with all eight amendments.

Mr Ford: The position is quite clear. The Committee has stuck to its undertaking; we have given this Bill the maximum possible priority. It appears to me that the Minister is not giving the same priority to the Bill, which he regarded as so important and urgent, as this Committee has given. I shall refrain from making any comments about what I think are the Minister’s priorities.

The Chairperson: We have genuinely tried to be helpful in this matter from the very beginning. The urgency was expressed to us, as was the timetable. You are saying that inside the next week we will have a definitive letter from the Minister on all the issues, including the two additional amendments. Is that right?

Mr Simmons: Yes.

The Chairperson: That will then enable us to do a clause-by-clause reading and move matters along quickly. Just to prove our good faith in this matter, we are issuing to Committee members the report that has been drawn up on the issue. Rather than waiting, we are trying to move that ahead and to process the matter quickly. The Committee has made its views clear this morning, and we are sorry that there is nothing further that we can do. Thank you.

19 September 2002  (ii) / Menu / 26 September 2002