The Northern Ireland Assembly - Report on the Inquiry into Education and Training for Industry

The Deputy Chairperson: I welcome you this afternoon. Thank you for contributing to this inquiry. We have a copy of your written submission, and we are looking forward to your presentation. The normal format is that a member of the delegation makes a short presentation. The Committee members are under severe pressure for time, so if you could keep your presentation as succinct as possible, hopefully the Members will reciprocate.

3050.

Marion Matchett will be making the presentation. On a personal note, I would like to say how glad I am to see Marion. She attended the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) this morning, so she has taken up residence in the building today. She has only been in the post for six months and, as a fellow Portadown person, I have followed her career progress with great interest. We congratulate her on her appointment and wish her well as she takes up the challenge of her new position.

3051.

Miss Matchett: Thank you very much. You have asked us to keep our opening remarks brief, and we will. I am accompanied by Vivian McIver who is assistant chief inspector with responsibility for further education and training, Catherine Bell who was staff inspector, but who is now working on policy in the Department of Higher and Further Education, Training and Employment (DHFETE), and Russell McCaughey from our inspection team.

3052.

For those who have not come across the work of the inspectorate before, we provide inspection services for three Departments and policy advice to three Ministers. I will not rehearse the detail of that.

3053.

I will explain briefly what inspection is and what we do. We promote the highest possible standards in further education and training. We are involved in further education, the Jobskills training programme, New Deal and, in fact, in all Government-funded training, for example, the Rapid Advancement programme and the Wider Horizons programme.

3054.

We have a wide brief in terms of promoting improvement and the highest possible standards, which we do through inspection. Our inspection provides evidence to the chief inspector, the Departments and Government Ministers, and it provides the governing body and management of colleges with an independent assessment of quality. It also allows colleges to compare performance, and it promotes the dissemination of good practice.

3055.

We provide information to the general public about the quality and standards of provision. We have two types of inspections that allow us to do that - an extended inspection covering all aspects of provision and management, and a focused inspection. Individual inspectors visit colleges, and we have district and specialist responsibilities. That would be our involvement with further education colleges, the Jobskills training programme and New Deal. From that, and the observation of first-hand evidence, we provide inspection advice for the colleges and policy advice to the Department. Vivian McIver will briefly describe the inspection activity.

3056.

Mr McIver: I will cover what it looks like on the ground. As Marion Matchett said, our fundamental stock and trade is first-hand evidence in the classroom, lecture hall or workshop. That is what we rely on, and that is our fallback position. We are not researchers, and we do not pretend to be.

3057.

The other fundamental is that we report as we find. For example, in looking at Level 3 provision in further education, my colleagues would have seen over 600 teaching sessions before putting pen to paper to write a draft report. That gives an idea of the size of sample on which a particular report would be based.

3058.

We report on individual institutions on a regular basis. We sometimes also report in survey form across a number of institutions, looking at a specific topic, theme or issue, and report across the Province.

3059.

The regularity of our inspections has changed over the years. In further education and training, there is a four-year cycle and an eight-year cycle, but there are much more frequent visits by district inspectors to institutions - usually, at the very least, twice a year. A significant amount of our work forms the basis of policy advice, which we give to the three Departments that we serve. A great deal of their policy is based on our advice, which in turn reflects the information that we glean from our first-hand evidence. An example of that would be information communication technology provision in further education.

3060.

Mrs Bell: I want to talk briefly about quality assurance. Incorporation made a big change for the colleges. They are businesses in their own right. The inspectorate firmly believes that it could not inspect quality into an organisation. Even though the inspectorate visits or inspects once every four or eight years, or a district inspector visits much more frequently, we cannot be in the classrooms all the time, given the wide range of work that goes on in a further education college.

3061.

A few years ago the inspectorate decided that it would make public its indicators of quality - the benchmarks that the inspectorate uses against which it makes its judgement. These were given to the college, which was then asked to undertake a self-evaluation prior to inspection. That document has had wider ramifications because colleges have now built the process into their normal quality assurance arrangements.

3062.

During the first year of the pilot, we discovered that there was an emphasis on evaluating the quality of teaching. That was very difficult, given that the inspectorate is trained to do that and that people going into a classroom can cause a great deal of consternation. Secondly, people need the skills necessary to evaluate themselves. We decided that we would work with the sector, and we introduced the idea of associate assessors working with the inspectorate. We train them, and every college has at least two people trained in the inspectorate's ways of working. They work with the inspectorate using our manual and a CD-ROM that we developed. They then disseminate that practice across their institutions.

3063.

The focus now is very firmly on the organisation taking responsibility for its own quality with the inspectorate working alongside it, and the organisation drawing up an action plan to address the weaknesses. The first few times, colleges produced marketing plans for us. They were providing prospectuses rather than truly critically evaluating their provision. However, they have moved significantly, and in the last year we have seen a great improvement in the rigour of self-evaluation.

3064.

Mr Dallat: I read the book from cover to cover. The world is changing very fast, so is an inspection every eight years adequate or even relevant? You answered that to some degree by talking about district inspectors, but further education colleges are often the institutions that pick up those people who have been failed by the other system, and lifelong learning is preferred here.

3065.

We were in Craigavon and Portadown last week and were told by one employer that some employees have difficulty counting up to nine in order to put pieces of material into a bag. They also cannot read simple labels. Does the inspector have a wider remit in helping to redress these problems? I am attributing no blame to further education because I am a product of it, and I have the greatest admiration for it.

3066.

Until recently the bottom 20% did not matter because they were unemployed. But now the people in that 20% have become very valued members of society, and employers are going to extraordinary lengths to arrange educational programmes to teach them basic English and simple arithmetic. None of the employers have been critical of the individuals. They have all said that the system has failed them.

3067.

I would like to be assured that inspectors have a hands-on input and not just in the eight-year inspection. They would need to be encouraging the 17 colleges to formulate special programmes depending on where they are located. That is where the employer comes in. I would like you to expand on that because it would be very important for our report.

3068.

Miss Matchett: To say that there is a formal inspection once every eight years is misleading. The inspector goes to colleges and training organisations much more regularly than that. At the PAC meeting this morning, we referred to the surveys that we carry out, the district inspector role and the other formal inspection activities. It is therefore much more frequent than every eight years.

3069.

Catherine Bell and Russell McCaughey perhaps will talk about how that works in practice. Every eight years is the requirement on the inspectorate, and we would share your concerns if that were the only time or opportunity we had for formal inspection activity. There is a degree of regularity with a number of different kinds of inspections. As Catherine Bell has said, there is the business of saying that colleges must be much more self-evaluative and reflective regarding their own improvement.

3070.

Mrs Bell: In the last few years the inspectorate has certainly been much more involved with working in colleges. We are involved in the interface between the Department and colleges, particularly since the advent of incorporation. For the last three years every college has had a significant amount of work undertaken in it through inspections related to the college development planning process. Although not a focused inspection, it was an inspection in the sense that we were looking right across a major area of each college's work. We have carried out inspection work every year and in every college since 1998. Also, self-evaluation has made a significant difference.

3071.

You are absolutely right about basic skills - that is the challenge we face. We have done some work to inform the Department's strategy which, as you know, we are currently writing. We worked in about five colleges to examine their work with the community and with secondary and tertiary students who should not have had difficulties with basic skills. However, when we looked at the standards in their vocational work, we saw that many of the difficulties were to do with weaknesses in literacy and numeracy. We have worked very closely with specific colleges and the Department.

3072.

As a result of that small piece of work, we ran dissemination events with the 17 colleges in the sector. We invited the five or six colleges we had worked with, which all had examples of good practice, to share this with others. We also got them to raise matters with which they had difficulty, for there is no point in focusing only on the good practice. We must raise the difficulties, for they are common across the 17 colleges. We therefore also got them to raise the problems and how they felt the inspectorate might help to address them, feeding back to the Department so we would have some shared understanding of the issues.

3073.

Basic skills is only one area we have examined in that format. We also worked on widening access and the "Lecturers into Industry" initiative, and we shared these experiences among the 17 colleges. Although statutorily we have a focused inspection once every four years and an extended inspection once every eight years, there is a college inspection annually.

3074.

Mr McIver: The inspections every four and eight years are when there is a full-blown visit with a very comprehensive published report. Nowadays there is a published report on all our work. Having just taken over in further education, I am told that colleges feel that they are over-inspected. I have been listening carefully to this; the 17 colleges say that there is at least one inspector with them every week surveying, talking or looking at certain departments.

3075.

There is one other small point. I am always slightly bemused when people talk about employees who cannot add up to nine, and so on. To be honest, our evidence is not of a system in further education, or anywhere else, dreadfully failing our young people on this scale. Of course, there are exceptions, and we dare not be complacent.

3076.

Mr Dallat: I suggest that you receive a copy of the report that was prepared by Moy Park. There are 250,000 people with problems. However, on the positive side, I am greatly encouraged by what Catherine Bell has said about the focus being on the community and the links with community groups, because at the end of the day they were the people who were left to pick up the pieces after 30 years of troubles.

3077.

Mrs Bell: I totally agree in terms of the 250,000 people - that is why we are pushing the departmental strategy and trying to get that right. The one encouraging thing that I have held on to is that when you look at the research, the difficulties are more in the population aged over 25 years. Younger people have fewer difficulties now. That does not mean that we do not have a challenge - we do have a challenge. The Department of Education's literacy strategy will have to address that as well. We need to focus on people aged 25 years and over, and that is going to be our challenge.

3078.

Mr McCaughey: It is the inspectorate's involvement across the different age groups from school, Jobskills 16-18 and New Deal 18+, that has allowed us to be active in initiating and instigating an exciting, potential project that addresses what I would call hard-to-help young people. The problem is not just literacy and numeracy. Moy Park would also be concerned about the ability of their new employees to arrive on time, be in a fit state for work and to be able to resolve conflict and difficulties. Therefore, it is a much more complex issue than just reading, writing and basic arithmetic.

3079.

We have convinced our own Department of Education and the Department of Higher and Further Education, Training and Employment's T&EA to look at a pilot project involving a holistic assessment and engaging young people who have barriers to learning - whether they be physical, medical, social, academic or whatever. That project is still at a very early stage. However, it is the results of our work right across all of the phases that have enabled the Departments to do something proactive and something that could be very beneficial.

3080.

The Deputy Chairperson: I would like some further information on your role with Jobskills and New Deal. We tend to think the inspectorate is restricted to the education sector, and I would like some expansion on that. If it does not come out in the questions, perhaps one of you could pick up on it at the end.

3081.

Mr Byrne: Given that the inspectorate is charged with promoting the highest possible standards of teaching, learning and further education, how does it link in with the awarding bodies, for example, Business and Technology (BTEC), Royal Society of Arts (RSA) and City & Guilds? We all have a duty to make sure that there is a consistency of standards right across the colleges. How much input does the inspectorate have there?

3082.

Secondly, I agree with Mr McIver that very often lecturers or teachers feel under pressure when there are inspections on a school. How involved are the inspectorate in advising on the management of a college in relation to the role and function of the level of provision that they provide for their area. Does the inspectorate get involved in giving advice to management to make sure that the college is effective, or more effective, in how it links with its community?

3083.

Mrs Bell: In 'Improving Quality: Raising Standards', we have challenged the colleges to consider whether the curriculum is appropriate - not only for young people but also for the community and for the employers within that particular area. When we inspect, those are the hard questions that we ask. It is only from 1998 - and, particularly, from the launch of the lifelong learning strategy in 1999 - that a clear focus for action was set for further education colleges.

3084.

Colleges have to be all things to all people, and now they are much more focused on supporting the economy. At the same time, they have to widen the access to people who previously never benefited from education. Very frequently the question is asked on how they can do both. However, we are not asking the same lecturers to do both things. We have specialists who teach the vocational courses, and we also have lecturers who are very skilled at working with people in the community.

3085.

Further education has the challenge to work with the community to help people get beyond entry and foundation levels. That is the big difficulty that exists. We have plenty of people who are engaged in learning, but not enough of them progress beyond basic learning. The inspectorate is involved with the management of the colleges and challenges them to think about how they are supporting the economy and community groups in their own areas. We would like to see more of that.

3086.

We have given these manuals ('Improving Quality: Raising Standards') to the awarding bodies as well, in order that they will know the standards against which the inspectorate makes judgements. However, the awarding bodies are profit-making organisations. Therefore, we do not have any control over them except that we work with the regulatory authorities. For example, on the National Vocational Qualification (NVQ) side we work with the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority (QCA) and all the bodies with whom they are involved. On the General National Vocational Qualification (GNVQ) we work with the Northern Ireland Council for Curriculum, Examination and Assessment (CCEA). The inspectors, particularly specialist inspectors, meet with the awarding bodies to talk about issues that have arisen during inspections.

3087.

In one of the appendices we refer to an Early Years report where a significant issue is raised about the awarding bodies. College lecturers can sometimes feel that they are working for two masters. They see the inspectorate, but they also have a body looking over their shoulder because of the award of qualifications. When we inspect we do not look at external verifiers' reports until we have finished our inspection work, and we raise issues with the awarding bodies.

3088.

Mr Byrne: I accept the dichotomy of the awarding bodies and the inspectorate. There are people involved in delivering the service at different levels, whether that is as a lecturer, a member of this Committee or as part of the inspectorate. However, the public has a right to consistency of a qualification that comes from a particular institution, whether that is a BTEC or a GNVQ. Does the inspectorate give any advice to the awarding bodies relating to the content and the quality of the courses?

3089.

Mrs Bell: We cannot write the syllabuses, but the CCEA and the QCA have members of the inspectorate as assessors. In the development of GNVQs, specifications were sent time after time to the inspectorate to see whether they truly reflected what was needed for vocational education. However, we do not write the specifications.

3090.

You can see from a number of reports that we have written recently - such as the Level 3 report on some of our colleges - that some of the qualifications from some of the awarding bodies do not reflect up-to-date industry standards. Some of the units are out of date. We have taken that issue up with the relevant awarding bodies and, more particularly, with the colleges involved.

3091.

The Deputy Chairperson: Are you suggesting that the fact that awarding bodies are profit making is an impediment to co-operation and harmonisation in the delivery of courses?

3092.

Mrs Bell: No. I am not suggesting that at all.

3093.

Mrs Nelis: I have not read all your document, but I am interested in quality assurance, the links between education and training and business and industry, and your efforts to improve the images of the colleges.

3094.

In the past, the further education colleges had a serious image problem. That is now changing. I would like you to comment on your role in that change, on the linkages between the colleges, and their attempts to try to give access to those previously under-represented groups. How does that approach fit in with the New Deal training programme? What about the length of time of New Deal - which is always criticised - and the quality of its training? Is there competition between the two?

3095.

Mrs Bell: There are a lot of questions there. First, you are absolutely right about the image of the further education sector. It has suffered from a poor image, and I believe that that image is undeserved, because the colleges have done sterling work over the past number of years. The image has changed, and the watershed was incorporation. The colleges are now businesses, and they have had to become much more businesslike.

3096.

Secondly, the lifelong learning strategy gave them resources and strategy for the first time - because they were seriously under-resourced - and then 'Strategy 2010' supported that. Therefore, the image is beginning to change. There are still people who say that the colleges are not sufficiently focused on, for example, the economy. I do not believe that, but the colleges must do more. The inspectorate did not have much to do with the change of image except that we were involved in giving advice on matters such as the lifelong learning strategy. We cannot claim credit for it, although we have written good things in reports about colleges.

3097.

On linking and reaching out to communities, the colleges have always had an ethos of working with communities. However, there is a plethora of community groups, and many of those groups are funded through European funding, which is short-term. The difficulty is that we need to continue to resource projects and to ensure that good practice is embedded in mainstream provision. That is why programmes such as the "Access Initiative", whereby the Department funds colleges to reach out to communities, are very important. Although the Department does not directly fund community groups, it funds the colleges to work with the community groups.

3098.

I have no doubt that if we are going to improve the basic skills - the literacy and numeracy of all our adults - it will not be done solely in the further education sector. It will only be done if the further education sector has a large role in it, if we work with community groups at all levels, and if we work with employers - because many of the difficulties are in employment.

3099.

You also asked about New Deal. Russell McCaughey will speak about that.

3100.

Mr McCaughey: It is very encouraging to see the development and growth of the New Deal consortia, in which the colleges play a significant part - indeed, in many cases they are the lead partners. They have worked very hard at reaching out into the community and drawing in the different community groupings and organisations.

3101.

Dare I mention the old ACE schemes, for fear of stirring up a hornet's nest? Certainly some consortia have very successfully incorporated old ACE providers into their set-ups, either as main partners or as associate members. There were problems with ACE, and there is no doubt that we have not cracked them all yet. ACE was providing very highly valued community service, but it was not really an employment training programme. The focus was more on providing a community service. The test is the ability to incorporate an organisation which is out to provide a service to the community, holding on to the quality of service but incorporating the good quality professional training that we regard as important. Some ACE providers, even as parts of New Deal consortia, have struggled to deal with the issues which that raises for them.

3102.

However, the New Deal lead partners are working hard with their community groups to try to help them to develop a balanced programme that maintains community service but also focuses strongly on the benefits to the client - ensuring empowerment and increased employability. That includes qualifications, as well as work experience and the improvement of self-esteem that you would develop in the programme.

3103.

Mr McIver: One of the things that helps, and which will increasingly help, the image of further and higher education is proper staff development for full-time and part-time staff. That helps to boost staff morale and increases confidence. It exists to an extent in the schools sector, and I notice that the further education people are contrasting that with their own situation, where there is not the same structure for initial induction or early, and continuing, professional development. That is an area to be worked at to generally raise morale and help to further raise the standing of colleges.

3104.

I return to this point because, as I said to Mr Dallat, teachers and lecturers take a bit of a bashing on occasions, and it is ill-merited in this Province.

3105.

Mr Dallat: That was not what I was implying.

3106.

Mrs Carson: From what Mr McCaughey said, it seems that we have a problem not just in the further education colleges but right down through our whole education system. We have people coming through without literacy and numeracy. When they are looking for a job it is too late for the inspectorate or anybody else to be expected to do something at that stage. It should be tackled in the primary schools. I visited Moy Park within the last few weeks, and it finds that the problem is that some employees cannot even listen to instructions, and this is coming through right from primary school. You have got to look right back down the line, because by further education level it is too late.

3107.

Miss Matchett: What we were saying this morning at the PAC is relevant, because we were looking at this issue in the context of the schools. The Department of Education, which has responsibility for schools and pre-school education, recognises exactly what you have said. There is therefore heavy investment in the early years - in the pre-school expansion programme and in the school support programme - to address some of the issues that you have raised. The focus is to invest early in young children's development so that many of the difficulties can be addressed within the school sector. The school support programme is designed to do exactly that. The inspectorate, once again, has a heavy involvement in working with schools where there are particular difficulties, to help to ensure that young people get off to the best possible start and that their difficulties do not increase as they move through the sectors.

3108.

Mrs Carson: You must recognise, even at pre-school level, that listening is a skill.

3109.

Miss Matchett: Absolutely.

3110.

Mrs Carson: Listening to instructions is a skill that must be developed - but that is a topic for another day.

3111.

Miss Matchett: Mind you, people would say that the population, generally, does not listen as well as it did in the past. That is not insignificant.

3112.

Mrs Carson: Part of the inspection process in relation to further education involves assessment of the colleges' relationships with business and industry. Many of the presentations to us have been from industry, and we have heard much about what is needed. What are the inspectorate's views on the relationship between education and training and business and industry?

3113.

Mrs Bell: It is getting better - there is no doubt about that. I looked at the figures recently. In the past three years, in the major vocational areas such as engineering, software engineering and computing, there has been a 27% increase in the number of students taking up places in these areas in further education. Those courses have strong links with industry.

3114.

Secondly, the "Lecturers into Industry" initiative has been very successful. It started out with engineering and hospitality and catering, before extending into software engineering last year. In the coming year it will extend into construction. The initiative takes a lecturer out of a college for 12 weeks to put him or her with an employer to undertake a major project. The difficulty is that we need somebody to cover the classes in the college. We need more placements from industry into further education. Many lecturers also keep up to date by working with their own professional bodies.

3115.

We would like to see the "Lecturers into Industry" initiative mainstreamed, with much more investment on an ongoing basis.

3116.

The third matter is the work experience undertaken by students. All students on vocational programmes have work experience, leading to evidence for their assignments.

3117.

The fourth aspect is that where colleges run specific courses for industry they are becoming increasingly better at doing it. We come across excellent examples, such as the North Down and Ards Institute of Further and Higher Education and its work with the multimedia industry. Another is Newry College of Further Education and its work with the hospitality industry. Those are only examples - such work is going on in all 17 colleges. The principle of working with industry has always been there, but it has only been really focused since 1998-99. I hope that, in the not too distant future, we will be able to produce evidence of all the work that colleges are carrying out in trying to support industry.

3118.

Mr McIver: The report on the "Lecturers into Industry" initiative sums up succinctly the benefits which people have gained. These opportunities are on a fairly limited scale as yet, but, nevertheless, they are highly significant.

3119.

Mr McCaughey: In response to the Deputy Chairperson's request that we keep the discussion broad on training, I can advise that there are many very positive relationships in the partnership between business and the training organisations in the operation of the Jobskills programme and New Deal. Without these the programmes could not operate. It is a marriage between the two. There are significant benefits to both when it works well, and when both are committed to it and to the development of their trainees. One example is Jobskills Access. Many caring employers are going out of their way to help young people who have all sorts of complex circumstances.

3120.

On traineeships, there are some very good examples of employers working proactively with the providers to ensure the greatest breadth of experience. Modern apprenticeships cannot operate unless the trainee is an employee. New Deal is just as good. The employment option is very successful for the majority of clients, and other options are working well.

3121.

However, in a minority of situations we, as inspectors, have been very disappointed and disillusioned with the attitude of some employers. Government-funded schemes are looked on by some as a way of getting cheap labour and of using people for the duration of the subsidy. We have examples of where employers have restricted young people by limiting their attendance at directed training because of inadequate staffing, a production rush or a job that has to happen on that day. The young person is encouraged not to attend college or training. Young people are sometimes enticed to leave training early, because they have developed adequate basic vocational skills that meet the needs of their employer, without any regard to the individual's future and long-term development.

3122.

We also have a few examples of failure by employers to comply with the programme's requirements and to provide in-house or in-work training.

3123.

It is not by any means all gloomy, but it is neither black nor white.

3124.

Mrs Carson: How do you inspect that? You have given us a litany of disasters. It is your programme that is being implemented. How do you ensure that if a disaster happens once it does not happen again?

3125.

Mr McCaughey: If we come across bad practice during our inspection, it is reported to the training organisation. That then finds its way into the published report, and it is the responsibility of the organisation to do something about it. The T&EA is required, through our procedures, to ensure that action is taken to address those weaknesses, particularly if they are significant.

3126.

Mrs Carson: It would be helpful for us to have details and statistics to bear out what you have said, because it is an indictment of quite a lot of industry. We have been hearing the other side - where industry feels that the education system has been failing.

3127.

Mr McCaughey: We can provide those details. They are in all of our reports. Only a minority of employers are involved, and we do not want the issue to get out of proportion. I did say that there were many examples of very good employers, and very good local industry, playing a huge and significant part in the development training of young people and the long-term unemployed. There is also the reverse side, and it would be inaccurate to say that it is all good.

3128.

The Deputy Chairperson: Does the inspectorate have any powers of redress or sanction? Have you any teeth in such a situation, rather than simply producing a written report and hoping that someone else observes it and takes the appropriate action?

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