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COMMITTEE FOR EMPLOYMENT AND LEARNING MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS: THURSDAY 5 SEPTEMBER 2002, Present: Dr Esmond Birnie MLA (Chairman) In Attendance: Dr Andrew Peoples Apologies: Mr Barry McElduff MLA The meeting opened at 2.07pm in open session. 1. Apologies Apologies are detailed above. 2. Draft Minutes of 3 September 2002 Agreed. Proposed: Mrs Carson. Seconded: Mr Carrick. 3. Matters Arising None. 2.10pm. Mr Dallat joined the meeting. 4 Committee Stage of the Employment Bill Members noted an Assembly Research paper detailing the potential implications of several amendments which had previously been considered by the Committee. Mr R Gamble and Mr W Caldwell from the Department for Employment and Learning (DEL) briefed members on two amendments which would be laid by the Minister at Consideration Stage. Officials stated that they would clarify, in writing, several issues raised by the Committee. Action: Clerk 2.20pm. Dr Adamson joined the meeting. The Committee considered a motion to request an extension to the Committee Stage of the Employment Bill. It was unanimously agreed: 'That in accordance with Standing Order 31(5), the period referred to in Standing Order 31(3) be extended to 18 October 2002 in relation to the Committee Stage of the Employment Bill (NIA Bill 11/01).' The Clerk was directed to lay the motion in the Business Office. Action: Clerk 2.30pm. Ms Gildernew joined the meeting. The Committee debated whether the scope of the Bill as it stood should be extended to include 'workers' as opposed to 'employees' and the usage of these terms in previous employment legislation, as well as their relationship to recent developments in the labour market. It was proposed by Dr Birnie and seconded by Ms Gildernew: 'That employee be changed to worker in the Employment Bill.' The question was put and the amendment agreed as detailed below. The Committee divided: Ayes 5; Noes 4. Ayes: Dr Adamson, Dr Birnie, Mr Dallat, Ms Gildernew and Prof McWilliams. Noes: Mr Carrick, Mrs Carson, Mr Hilditch and Mr Hutchinson. Abstentions: None. It was agreed that a discussion of the categories to be included in the term 'workers' in the Committee's agreed amendment should be deferred until the next meeting. Members debated whether the right to request flexible working for parents with disabled children under 18 should be extended. 3.20pm. Mr Hilditch left the meeting. It was proposed by Mr Dallat and seconded by Ms Gildernew: 'That flexible working be extended to all working parents of disabled children so long as they are dependent.' The question was put and the amendment fell as detailed below. The Committee divided: Ayes 3; Noes 4. Ayes: Mr Dallat, Ms Gildernew and Prof McWilliams. Noes: Dr Adamson, Dr Birnie, Mr Carrick, and Mr Hutchinson. Abstentions: Mrs Carson. 3.25pm. Mrs Carson left the meeting. Members debated whether to extend the scope of the Bill to allow working parents of children over 6 years of age to request flexible working. 3.29pm. Mr Hilditch joined the meeting. It was proposed by Ms Gildernew and seconded by Mr Dallat: 'That the right to request flexible working be extended to all parents of children under the compulsory school leaving age.' The question was put and the amendment fell as detailed below. The Committee divided: Ayes 3; Noes 5. Ayes: Mr Dallat, Ms Gildernew and Prof McWilliams. Noes: Dr Adamson, Dr Birnie, Mr Carrick, Mr Hilditch and Mr Hutchinson. Abstentions: None. Members considered whether the right to request flexible working should be extended to workers with other caring responsibilities. Whilst it was agreed that this was an issue which would need to be addressed in the future, the Employment Bill was based on consultation relating to working parents and the Committee would not therefore consider amending the current legislation. Departmental officials confirmed that the Equality Impact Assessment in relation to the Bill had concluded that there would be no adverse impact in relation to the Section 75 categories. Officials also confirmed that the Bill, as drafted, had been ratified by the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. Members debated whether the current short title of the Bill adequately reflected the scope and purpose of the Bill and agreed to continue their deliberations on this matter at the next meeting. The Clerk was directed to seek further information from the Equality Commission on their definition of 'workers' as used in their written memorandum sent to the Committee. Action: Clerk Members agreed to request further information from Assembly Research on the definitions of 'workers' used in similar previous legislation and, in particular, whether these included the self-employed. Action: Clerk Members agreed that the clause-by-clause reading of the Bill would be undertaken at the next meeting. It was agreed that the Chairman and Deputy Chairman should seek a meeting with the Minister to discuss the amendment agreed by the Committee. Action: Clerk 5. Any Other Business Prof McWilliams stated that she had received correspondence on the delay in making threshold payments to lecturers in Further Education Colleges. The Chairman stated that he had already written to the Minister on this matter. The Chairman informed members that he had attended the opening of the new Moag building at Belfast Institute of Further and Higher Education. 3.55pm. Mr Hutchinson left the meeting. Members agreed to ask DEL for an extension to the deadline on the Committee's considerations of the draft Report and Action Plan of the Taskforce on Employability and Long-Term Unemployment. Action: Clerk 6. Date, Time and Place of Next Meeting On Thursday 12 September 2002 at 2.00pm in Room 152 Parliament Buildings. Mr Dallat asked for his apologies to be recorded. Action: Clerk The Chairman adjourned the meeting at 4.00pm. Dr Esmond Birnie MLA |