Present:

Lord Alderdice (Initial Presiding Officer)

Mr I Davis

Mr M Durkan

Mr D Ford

Mr B Hutchinson

Mr E McGrady MP

Prof M McWilliams

Mr F Molloy

Mr M Morrow

Mr P Robinson MP

Mr D Watson

Mr C Wilson

Mr J Wilson

Mr N Carson

Mrs G Campbell

Miss A Moore

Mr N Johnston

1. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETING

Item 7 - Any Other Business - Speeches: Ms McWilliams asked that it be noted that she had approached the Initial Presiding Officer about foregoing the right to speak in one debate with a view to both members of the NIWC being permitted to speak during another debate.

2. MATTERS ARISING

Commemorative Stamps: On the matter of copyrighting the Assembly's emblem, copyright protection in the UK is automatic. However if the emblem is to be used for retail purposes it might be appropriate to register it as a trademark. This takes approximately 3 months. The Shadow Assembly Commission will address the matter. Mr P Robinson suggested it might be useful to establish the mechanism by which the portcullis emblem is protected by Westminster.

All Party Interest Groups: It was agreed a motion should be put before the Assembly at the earliest opportunity to allow for the establishment of All Party Interest Groups. Mr J Wilson asked that it be noted that he would like the Assembly to move as soon as possible to establish a register of members' interests. The Initial Presiding Officer suggested that a paper on members' interests should be prepared before the motion on All Party Interest Groups goes before the Assembly.

Photograph of the Assembly in Session: The photograph taken by the Belfast Telegraph at the first meeting in Parliament Buildings was considered by the Committee. The Initial Presiding Officer said that while the Belfast Telegraph have no objections to the use of the photograph they intend to make a charge for its use. It was agreed to have another photograph taken during an early stage of the next plenary meeting. A note will be placed in the next All Party Notices to advise members. The Committee will view the new photograph.

Accommodation for Members: The Initial Presiding Officer reported that he had looked into the matter raised by Mr P Robinson that both Microsoft and Lotus software were not available as promised. There had been some difficulty getting the Lotus software from DFP and by the time it had been received the DUP had loaded a version of Lotus themselves. He will request an upgrade to the current Lotus software. He also reported that the Shadow Assembly Commission has given approval for the central provision of access to the Internet. Mr Black has been asked to have this completed by early February. Negotiations are ongoing regarding the current arrangements with the Civil Service. Mr J Wilson asked that a note be placed in the next All Party Notice to clarify the position regarding the Internet. The Initial Presiding Officer said that if it was a complex matter it might be more appropriate to ask Mr Black to issue an advice note to all members.

Committee Rooms: Work on the provision of audio recording facilities in 2 Committee Rooms should be completed by 20 January.

Start Time for Plenary Meetings: Mr J Wilson asked the Committee to consider a 2.00 pm start with a later end time for plenary meetings. The later start would allow the larger parties, in particular, to conduct pre-plenary business especially when amendments to motions were tabled. Ms McWilliams noted her party's preference for normal working hours to reconcile business hours and domestic responsibilities. It was accepted that difficulties were exacerbated because amendments can be tabled up to one hour before the start of a plenary meeting though a later start would not solve this difficulty. The Presiding Officer pointed out that the Committee on Standing Orders had already confirmed a start time of 10.30 am. It was agreed the Initial Presiding Officer should ask the Committee on Standing Orders to revisit the matter of start times. In the interim if representations are made to him the Initial Presiding Officer will consider an extended lunch to allow parties time to conduct their required business bearing in mind that to do so would cut down the amount of time for debate.

Speeches: The Initial Presiding Officer asked the Committee for guidance regarding apportioning speaking time and the length of speeches particularly in relation to the next plenary meeting. He said that there is some scope in the Initial Standing Orders for variability in speaking times but only by leave of the Assembly. Mr Durkan suggested allowing the proposer 20 minutes, the main speakers from each party 20 minutes in the first round and the remaining speakers 10 minutes each in the second and subsequent rounds. Mr C Wilson proposed allowing the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate) 45 minutes in total for their proposal and wind-up to be apportioned as they wished. Mr P Robinson suggested dividing the total amount of time available amongst the parties according to size and let the parties allocate their time as they wish.

For clarity the Initial Presiding Officer pointed out that he has always operated on the basis that someone speaking out of their official capacity did not affect the length of time their parties got to speak. After further discussion it was agreed to allow CAPO members to consult with their parties on the following proposal:

Proposer(s) of a motion 30 mins (divided between proposers as they wish)

All parties in the first round 20 mins (larger parties cannot divide the time among other speakers but other parties can allocate time as they wish)

The four largest parties 20 mins per party

to wind

First Minister (Designate) 20 mins (to be divided as they wish)

and Deputy First Minister

(Designate) to wind

Plus other 10 minute contributions as time allows pro rata according to size of party.

Mr J Wilson asked that it be recorded he would not be supporting the proposal.

The matter will be discussed at the next CAPO meeting.

3. PLENARY MEETING ON 18 JANUARY 1999

A draft Order Paper was circulated to the Committee.

Report by the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate): The Initial Presiding Officer said that current indications are that the Report by the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate) will be available to members as the First Minister (Designate) rises to speak. Mr P Robinson asked that it be recorded that he feels it is disgraceful to suggest entering into a debate on the matter without allowing members time to read the Report first; that it shows contempt for the democratic process; it is a deliberate attempt to stop amendments, and that it will lead to disruption during the debate. He thought CAPO should insist that the Report be available on Friday. Mr C Wilson said that he agreed with Mr P Robinson. The Initial Presiding Officer said he would convey the views to the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate).

The Initial Presiding Officer reported that a motion will need to be with him by lunch time on Thursday 14 January for inclusion in the Order Paper and that amendments can be taken up to one hour before the start of the meeting. The Initial Presiding Officer said that if the motion is to "take note" then an amendment to that might be considered competent. Regarding a question raised by Mr P Robinson about "reasoned amendments" it is not clear if such amendments would be considered competent; the Initial Presiding Officer is taking advice on this and will advise Mr P Robinson as soon as possible. It is possible to reject, accept or take note of a Report but not to change it.

Timing: Mr P Robinson proposed the debate on the Report by the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate) should be conducted on 18, 19 and if required 20 January, the remaining business to be completed on 20 January. The Initial Presiding Officer suggested the debate should be conducted from 10.30 am to 6.00 pm on 18 and 19 January and potentially Wednesday if required. The debate can be extended by a short period on 19 January if that would complete the debate.

Other Business: The Initial Presiding Officer said he would accept a competent business motion from Mr Robinson and Mr McGrady to set up an Ad Hoc Committee to look at the issue of Harbours if they could assure him it would be non-contentious. The Initial Presiding Officer said he could not refuse a debate on any motion but that if the issue was uncontentious it should be possible to have the matter dealt with quickly. The final item of business will be the adjournment debate.

4. FUTURE PLENARY MEETINGS

The Initial Presiding Officer said future plenary meetings will depend on the outcome of the debate on the Report by the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate) and whether we have the Standing Orders necessary to operate d'Hondt.

5. UKUP/NIUP

The Initial Presiding Officer reported that he has received a letter from 4 former members of the UKUP advising him that they have resigned from the UKUP and formed the Northern Ireland Unionist Party (NIUP). The NIUP are applying for registration but that cannot be made before 26 February.

The Initial Presiding Officer raised a number of issues. Legal advice is that there is no impediment to them keeping their Assembly seats. Regarding the operation of d'Hondt a ruling cannot be made as the relevant additional Standing Orders have not yet been determined by the Secretary of State. Funding of parties is a matter for the Minister, Mr P Murphy. The Initial Presiding Officer is minded to recognise the party, since refusal could be contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights, and if the party were registered under the Registration of Political Parties Act 1998 it would be perverse not to recognise them. As far as Committee membership is concerned it is not proposed at this point to make any changes to the membership of CAPO but it may be appropriate to permit Mr McCartney observer status. Membership of the Committee on Standing Orders is a matter for that Committee and the Assembly to determine. Accommodation is a matter for the Shadow Assembly Commission. Seating arrangements in the Chamber will remain unchanged for the present.

Mr C Wilson asked that the NIUP be afforded full rights and privileges at the earliest opportunity. He said that he would like to withdraw from the meeting to allow for discussion on Mr McCartney's position.

The Initial Presiding Officer informed the Committee that Mr McCartney has been advised of the situation. The Initial Presiding Officer invited the Committee to provide any advice on the matters under discussion since he would have to reach a decision by 15 January because it would be 7 days from their application for recognition, and their provision of the necessary information. If recognised the NIUP members would have speaking rights in the debate on the Report by the First Minister (Designate) and Deputy First Minister (Designate).

6. ALL PARTY INTEREST GROUPS

This matter was dealt with under Item 2 - Matters Arising.

7. COMMEMORATIVE STAMPS

This matter was dealt with under Item 2 - Matters Arising.

8. PHOTOGRAPH OF THE ASSEMBLY IN SESSION

This matter was dealt with under Item 2 - Matters Arising.

9. ANY OTHER BUSINESS

Research Facilities: The Initial Presiding Officer reported that Mr Stephen Donnelly has been employed as a researcher. Mr Donnelly will give a short presentation to the Committee at the earliest convenient date.

Invitation to the Asturias Parliament: The Initial Presiding Officer has been invited to meet the President of the Asturias Parliament (Spain) to explore the possibility of the Assembly joining the Council of Regional European Legislative Assemblies. The Committee agreed that the Initial Presiding Officer should pursue enquiries with the possibility subsequently of a motion going before the Assembly to permit an application to join.

Comprehensive Spending Review: A reply from the Minister, Mr P Murphy, was read to the Committee.

Diaries: Mr I Davis enquired if desk diaries would be made available to members. The matter will be looked into.

10. DATE, TIME AND VENUE OF NEXT MEETING

The next meetings will be:

(a) on Friday 15 January at 9.00 am in Room 152; and

(b) one hour after the rise of the Assembly on conclusion of its sitting in the week commencing 18 January in Room 152.