ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 25 NOVEMBER 2008
Room 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr John O’Dowd
In Attendance:
Mrs Nuala Dunwoody (Clerk Assistant)
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Lynn Gray (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
Apologies:
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
The meeting opened at 11.05am in public session.
1. Apologies
Apologies are detailed above.
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 18 November 2008
Agreed: The Committee agreed the minutes of the meeting held on 18 November 2008, as amended.
3. Matters arising
3.1 The Chairperson reported that he had spoken to Ms Dawn Purvis in relation to the meeting of the 18 November. Ms Purvis indicated that she had received the information which had been made public following the meeting and that she did not feel there was a need for any further discussion.
3.2 Agreed: Members agreed that the Secretariat would identify an individual or body, for approval by the Committee, as necessary, who could provide the necessary financial advice, and support, to Members regarding their inquiry into matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice.
4. Correspondence
4.1 Members noted correspondence from the First Minister and deputy First Minister, which had been circulated to the Committee at the meeting of 18 November.
Agreed: Members agreed that, because of the existence of the letter, and its supplementary attachment, there would be no need to keep any other detailed records of discussions held in the private session and that any such records should be destroyed.
4.2 Members noted a letter from the Chairperson to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, thanking them for their attendance at the Committee meeting and seeking clarification on a number of issues raised by Members in closed session.
4.3 Members noted a letter from the Chairperson to the Secretary of State regarding financial issues relating to the devolution of policing and justice.
11.28 am Mr O’Dowd left the meeting.
4.4 Members noted a letter from the Committee Clerk to the NIO which addressed matters regarding protocols and memoranda, and work-streams, which were raised by Members during the meeting on 18 November.
4.5 A further letter from the Chairperson to the First Minister and deputy First Minister was tabled and Members noted the correspondence which addressed issues relating to appointments to the judiciary.
5. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
The Chairperson noted an apology from Dawn Purvis, PUP.
The Committee Clerk gave a brief overview of the reconstruction of the original Committee Briefing Paper, 11/08/09 – Category One List of Issues.
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Partnership
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
5.1 Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Category One List of Issues (First Revision)
Members noted a first revision of the Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09
Agreed: The Committee agreed to take the views of each party, in turn, on the unresolved issues in the Category One List of Issues, as represented in the Briefing Paper.
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 1 List.
5.1.A On the basis that there should be a single Department with a Single Minister, what would be the method for election/appointment of that Minister?
There was some discussion on Issue A.
Agreed: Members agreed that there would be a single Department with a single Minister. Agreed: Members agreed to relocate ‘the method for election and appointment of that Minister’, to Issue E.
5.1.C What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee?
There was some discussion on Issue C.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue on 2 December 2008, with a view to having a definitive position on the matter.
5.1.D Would the appointment of a Minister be an interim arrangement until the next Assembly election?
There was some discussion on Issue D.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue on 2 December 2008, with a view to having a definitive position on the matter.
5.1.E What would be the arrangements for removing and/or replacing a Minister once appointed?
There was some discussion on Issue E.
Agreed: Members agreed that Issue E would be re-structured and that Issue E would be
re-visited on 2 December 2008, with a view to having a definitive position on the matter.
5.1.F What would be the name of the department?
There was some discussion on Issue F.
Agreed: Members agreed that the name of the department would be ‘The Department of Justice’.
5.1.G What would be the structure of the Policing and Justice Department, and what functions should be placed there and/or OFMDFM?
There was some discussion on Issue G.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue on 2 December 2008, with a view to having a definitive position on the matter.
5.1.H What arrangements need to be in place to ensure that Members of the Statutory Committee for any new department should not sit on the Northern Ireland Policing Board or any District Policing Partnership, at the point of devolution?
There was some discussion on Issue H.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Committee would seek advice on the issue of amending Assembly Standing Orders before deciding on how best to resolve Issue H. Members agreed to return to the issue once that advice had been obtained.
5.1.I How, and when, should the financial negotiations with the NIO be conducted, and by whom?
There was some discussion on Issue I.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the financial negotiations with the NIO should be conducted by the political parties.
Agreed: Members also agreed that the Issue should be re-located to the Category Two List.
5.1.J Should any budget be ‘ring-fenced’?
There was some discussion on Issue J.
Agreed: Members agreed that Issue J should be relocated to the Category Two List of Issues.
5.1.M Is there a need for further clarity of the powers to be devolved, and, if so, should they include matters relating to the Public Processions ( Northern Ireland) Act 1989, flags and symbols and recruitment to the PSNI?
There was some discussion on Issue M.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue on 2 December 2008, with a view to having a definitive position on the matter.
5.1.N What needs to be done to ensure that attention is given to having appropriate measures in place to address issues such as community safety; attacks on the elderly and other vulnerable groups; anti-social behaviour generally; sentencing policy within the judicial system; community confidence in policing; the role of the security services; and all-Ireland policing arrangements?
There was some discussion on Issue N.
Agreed: Members agreed that many of the aspects in Issue N were policy matters which a future department would deal with and that should be reflected in the Committee’s Report. Agreed: The role of the security services and all-Ireland policing arrangements should be relocated to the Category Two List of Issues.
5.1.O What procedures and protocols will there need to be between the Minister, an Assembly Committee and any newly established department and its associated agencies?
There was some discussion on Issue O.
Agreed: Members agreed that Issue O should be relocated to the Category Two List of Issues.
5.1.P Should the “triple lock” within the Executive apply to the decisions of a Policing and Justice Minister?
There was some discussion on Issue P.
Agreed: Members agreed to relocate Issue P to Issue E.
5.1.Q Is there any requirement to seek to have any ‘excepted matters’ devolved?
There was some discussion on Issue Q.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue on 2 December 2008, with a view to having a definitive position on the matter.
6. Any other business
There was no other business.
7. Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 2 nd December 2008 at 11.00am in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.29pm.