Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (representing Mr D O'Connor)
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr E McGrady MP
Mr G McHugh (representing Mr A Maskey)
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy (representing Mr P Doherty)
Mr S Neeson
Dr D O'Hagan
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
In Attendance:
Dr S Donnelly Ms V Surplus
Mr G Martin Ms K Johnston
Mr Harkin
1. Election of Chair
Mr Hutchinson proposed Mr S Wilson as Chairperson and this was seconded by
Mr Watson.
Mr McGrady then proposed Mr A Maginness as Chairperson.
Mr McClarty then proposed Mr S Wilson and Mr A Maginness as joint Chairpersons,
and this was agreed to unanimously by the members. Mr S Wilson took the Chair,
which will be rotated at each meeting.
2. Election of Deputy Chair
Agreed:
In view of the Joint Chairmanship arrangement it was agreed that there was
no requirement for a Deputy Chair.
3. Draft Press Release
Agreed:
The draft press release was agreed, and a deadline of 23 March was set for
receipt of written submissions.
4. Draft list of invitees to give oral evidence
The list was agreed, with the following additions:
Belfast City Council
Belfast Harbour Users Group
Bumper Graham, NIPSA
Dover Port
5. Draft list of invitees to provide written evidence
The draft list was agreed, with a number of additions, including all 26 local
councils.
6. Future Work Programme
Agreed:
i. Belfast Harbour Commissioners will be invited to make a presentation
to the Committee on Thursday 25 February.
ii. The Committee will meet every Thursday at 10.30 am.
iii. The Clerk will identify an independent expert to give advice on the
proposals/options for Belfast Harbour.
iv. The Clerk will arrange for an options paper to be prepared.
v. The Clerk will identify a land valuer to provide an estimate of the
value of Belfast Harbour's estate.
vi. The Clerk will arrange for a paper to be provided regarding the position
of the port in Dublin.
7. AOB
Agreed:
i. The minutes of the meetings will be placed in the Library.
ii. The Joint Chairpersons will speak to the Initial Presiding Officer
with a view to securing more suitable accommodation.
iii. The Committee will meet 15 minutes in advance of evidence sessions
to deliberate.
8. Date of next meeting
The Committee will meet on Thursday 25 February at 10.30 am in the Long Gallery
for a presentation by the Belfast Harbour Commissioners.
THURSDAY 25 FEBRUARY 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (Representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Dr D O'Hagan
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Apologies:
Mr P Doherty
Mr A Maskey
Mr S Neeson
Mr D O'Connor
In Attendance:
Dr S Donnelly Ms C Ashfield*
Mr G Martin Mr I Ferris*
Mr D Harkin Mr R Hayden*
Ms K Johnston Ms V Surplus
* (Belfast Harbour Commissioners'staff/adviser)
The Committee heard a presentation from Mr Gordon Irwin (Chief Executive),
Mr Frank Cushnahan (Chairman) and Ms Ann McLaughlin (Commissioner) from
the Belfast Harbour Commissioners on their proposals for the future of Belfast
Port. There followed a brief question-and-answer session on points of clarification.
THURSDAY 4 MARCH 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr D O'Connor
Dr D O'Hagan
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
In Attendance:
Dr S Donnelly Ms V Surplus
Mr G Martin Ms K Johnston
Mr D Harkin Miss C Feeney
Mr S Wilson took the Chair
1. Minutes of the Previous Meetings
The minutes of the two previous meetings were noted and agreed.
2. Matters Arising
The Joint Chairperson, Mr Wilson, pointed out that most of the matters arising
were included in the agenda items.
Agreed:
The Joint Chairpersons will speak to the Presiding Officer today with
a view to obtaining improved accommodation facilities.
3. Options Paper on Belfast Port
i. Mr Roche commented on separate media interviews given by the Joint
Chairpersons following last week's presentation by the Belfast Harbour Commissioners.
The Joint Chairpersons assured the members of their open-mindedness in relation
to the options, and made it clear that the Committee will not take a final
decision before receiving and scrutinizing all oral and written evidence.
ii. Agreed: Dr Donnelly will prepare a paper on the borrowing
powers of both Dublin and Belfast Ports as Semi-State bodies.
The members had a general discussion on the options outlined.
4. Independent Experts on Proposals/Options
Agreed:
The Clerk will invite the University of Ulster experts to next week's meeting,
with a view to their hearing the witnesses' evidence, and allowing the Committee
to clarify the experts' proposals and to input into same.
5. Valuation of the Port of Belfast
Agreed:
The Committee considered the letter from the Commissioner of Valuation and
decided to take no further action at present.
6. Northern Ireland Trusts Ports: An Economic Overview
The Committee considered and noted the papers.
7. Position of Dublin Port
Mr Roche suggested that the Committee invite some experts on the Port of
Dublin whom he knows to give advice.
Agreed:
The Committee will await the outcome of next week's meeting with the University
of Ulster experts, and will follow up Mr Roche's proposal, if necessary.
8. Proposed Programme for Oral Sessions
The Clerk explained that the programme for oral evidence was still in draft
form, as some witnesses had still to confirm their "slots", but that
the final schedule would be agreed shortly.
9. AOB
Agreed:
i. The Committee agreed to apply a one-hour time limit to evidence sessions,
with 10 minutes allotted to witnesses' opening remarks and 50 minutes for follow-up
questions.
ii. The Committee Clerk will issue a weekly press release on the Thursday
prior to oral hearings.
iii. The Committee agreed to invite the Port of Forth to give oral evidence.
iv. The Committee agreed that where necessary during an evidence session
it could revert temporarily to private mode.
THURSDAY 11 MARCH 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Dr I Adamson (representing Mr D McClarty)
Mr R Beggs
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr M McGimpsey
Mr G McHugh (representing Mr A Maskey)
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr S Neeson
Mr D O'Connor
Mr M Robinson (representing Mr G Campbell)
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Apologies:
Mr P Doherty
Mr D Watson
In Attendance:
Dr S Donnelly Ms V Surplus
Mr G Martin Ms S Bowman
Mr D Harkin
Mr A Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were noted and agreed.
2. Matters Arising
There were no matters arising.
3. Planning for Oral Evidence
The Joint Chairperson reminded members of the agreed time limits for evidence
sessions, and the consequential need to keep questions short and pertinent.
He also asked members to exercise a degree of formality and to speak through
the Chair, especially for the benefit of the Hansard reporter.
4. Oral Evidence: Port of Larne
Witnesses: Mr D P Galway (Director and General Manger, Port of Larne)
Capt. A Gardiner
Mr Galway requested that, if possible, he be given a further opportunity
to provide evidence once the definitive proposals for Belfast Port are made
available.
5. Oral Evidence: Belfast Harbour Commissioners
Witnesses: Mr F Cushnahan (Chairman)
Mr G Irwin (Chief Executive)
Ms A McLaughlin (Commissioner)
Assembly Member Mr McGimpsey pointed out discrepancies between the information
in a letter that he had received from Mr Irwin last year and the Belfast Harbour
Commissioners' brochure on the Port of Belfast in relation its acreage. He
further highlighted inconsistencies between information on a photograph in
the brochure showing land usage on the Harbour Estate and an accompanying plan
of the Estate.
Mr Cushnahan indicated that he would respond formally in writing to Mr McGimpsey's
concerns.
Assembly Member Mr McGimpsey agreed to provide the Committee members with
a copy of the said letter that he received from Mr Irwin on land availability
on the Harbour Estate.
6. Independent Experts on Proposals/Options
Dr Felix Schmidt of the University of Ulster briefly outlined his proposals
and that of his colleagues, Mr Mike Smyth and Mr Terry Bunce (who were unable
to attend the meeting), for Phase one of a two-stage review of the options
available for Belfast Port.
Agreed:
The Committee approved Dr Schmidt's proposal for Phase one, and the Clerk
will write to the University of Ulster to formalise the acceptance.
7. AOB
i. The Joint Chairperson drew the members' attention to a letter from
the Presiding Officer regarding the Committee's title and remit.
Agreed: The Clerk will write to the Presiding Officer to advise
that the Committee is content with its title and that it understands its remit.
ii. Agreed: Since both sets of witnesses due to give evidence
at next week's meeting are unable to attend, their attendance has been postponed
to a later date. In light of that information the Committee agreed to defer
its next meeting until Thursday 25 March.
THURSDAY 25 MARCH 1999
Present:
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Ms C Hanna (representing Mr A Maginness)
Mr W Hay (representing Mr M Morrow)
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr J Kelly (representing Mr A Maskey)
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Ms J Morrice
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
Apologies:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
In Attendance:
Dr S Donnelly Ms V Surplus
Mr G Martin Ms K McFerran
Mr D Harkin
1. Election of Acting Chairperson
The Clerk advised the Committee that, since both Joint Chairpersons were
unable to attend, it was necessary to elect an acting Chairperson for the meeting.
Assembly Member McClarty proposed Assembly Member Roche, and this was agreed
to unanimously by the Committee.
Mr Roche took the Chair.
2. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
3. Matters Arising
Assembly Member McGimpsey provided the Committee with copies of the letter
that he had received in January from Mr Gordon Irwin, Chief Executive of the
Belfast Harbour Commissioners, relating to land acreage on Belfast Harbour
Estate.
4. Oral Evidence: Belfast Harbour Users Group
Witnesses:
Mr M McAree (Secretary)
Mr L Murray (Deputy Chairman)
Mr D Malseed (Member)
5. Oral Evidence: Port of Belfast Harbour Trade Union Side
Witnesses:
Mr B Graham
Mr A Quirey
Mr J Quinn
6. AOB
i. The Clerk advised the Committee that, subject to confirmation, Londonderry
Port and Harbour Commissioners and Warrenpoint Harbour Authority have been
rescheduled to give oral evidence on Thursday 29 April, with the Dover Harbour
Board pencilled in for Thursday 22 April.
ii. The Clerk advised the Committee that the Port of Forth has declined
its invitation to give oral evidence.
iii. Agreed: The Clerk advised that Lord Dubs had been provisionally
rescheduled to give oral evidence on Wednesday 5 May at 10.30 am, and this
date was agreed to by the Committee.
iv. Assembly Member Morrice voiced concern about sufficient members' ability
to attend next week's meeting, where Belfast City Council are due to give evidence.
It was agreed to leave the matter with the Clerk, who will advise on the position
as soon as possible.
THURSDAY 01 APRIL 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr G Campbell
Mr J Kelly (representing Mr A Maskey)
Mr D McClelland (representing Mr D O'Connor)
Dr A McDonnell (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy (representing Mr P Doherty)
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Apologies: Mr D Watson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mr S Wilson took the Chair
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
There were no matters arising.
3. Oral Evidence: Representatives of Belfast City Council
Witnesses: Mr N Dodds (Councillor)
Ms C McAuley (Councillor)
Mr B Stoker (Councillor)
Mr B Hanna (Chief Executive)
Ms M McGivern (Director of Development)
As several Committee members were unable to attend the meeting, the witnesses
agreed to the Committee's request for them to return at a future date for a
follow-up oral evidence session.
4. AOB:
i. The UUJ Special Advisers will submit their report to the Committee
by 16 April and will attend its deliberative session on 22 April to comment
on the document and answer members' questions.
ii. The Clerk will provide the Committee, by its next meeting, with a
synopsis of the written responses, and members will have access to the full
documents on request.
iii. The Joint Chairperson advised that there were some issues arising
from the Belfast Harbour Commissioners' written evidence that may require clarification
and further examination.
iv. The Joint Chairperson thanked those members who had, at short notice,
filled in for their Colleagues who were absent due to the Hillsborough talks.
THURSDAY 22 APRIL 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr PJ Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr G Campbell
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr M Murphy (representing Mr A Maskey)
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr S Neeson
Mr D O'Connor
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Dr S Donnelly Ms V Surplus
Mr D Harkin
Mr A Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
i. The Committee agreed to re-invite Belfast City Council to give oral
evidence on 13 May, as some of its standing members had been unable to attend
the first presentation.
ii. The Committee agreed not to invite the Belfast Harbour Commissioners
back at present to clarify their written evidence, but to re-examine that possibility
before reaching its final conclusions.
iii. The Committee noted, and acknowledged as helpful, the Clerk's synopsis
of all written submissions. The Clerk advised that the full responses were
available for members'consultation.
3. Presentation from University of Ulster independent experts on their
appraisal of the options for the Port of Belfast.
Panel members: Mr T Bunce
Dr F Schmidt
Mr M Smyth
Following the presentation there was a question-and-answer session, summarised
as follows:
i. Assembly Member Roche expressed concern with the methodology that the
experts had used for their model, especially in relation to its parameters,
weighting system, scoring mechanism and the assumption that public ownership
of the Port was necessarily the best means of protecting the public interest.
Dr Schmidt explained the use of the generic model by pointing out that
there was no such thing as a typical port and that each one comprised a complex
system of components. He advised that the weighting system had been determined
with the public interest in mind.
Mr Smyth emphasised that the research team had followed strictly the
Treasury model, as set out in the Green Book, for the evaluation of non-monetary
factors. He accepted that value judgements had had to be made but that these
had been informed by the team's considerable experience in this field.
ii. Assembly Member Wilson queried the relevance of the golden share to
the Public-Private Corporation option (PPC). Mr Bunce explained that this was
intended as an ultimate safeguard against any aggressive takeover bid.
iii. Assembly Member Beggs sought and received assurances from the experts
in relation to the accuracy of the data in the port case studies in their appraisal.
Mr Bunce confirmed that all available information had been included in the
study.
iv. Assembly Member Beggs asked if any indication could be given as to
the potential income stream from the PPC option but the panel did not have
sufficient financial data to provide a detailed answer at present.
v. Assembly Member Wilson asked if a value could be put on Belfast port,
given the restrictions that the PPC option would entail. Mr Bunce said that,
as no valuation had been carried out, it was not possible to give an accurate
answer.
vi. Assembly Member O'Connor sought assurance that Belfast Port operating
as a PPC could not disadvantage Northern Ireland's other ports by accessing
European funds. Mr Smyth emphasised that the merits of any funding bids had
to be measured by the benefits that they could bring to the local economy,
and that the Government would decide the priority of cases to take forward.
vii. Assembly Member Neeson asked what advantages the PPC option had over
the Belfast Harbour Commissioners' proposal. Dr Schmidt replied that, with
the PPC option, the Port's assets would remain in the public domain, and that
responsibility for rules on health and safety would rest with the Government.
viii. The Joint Chairperson asked how the PPC and PPP models compared
in terms of the Harbour's borrowing potential. Mr Smyth acknowledged that the
PPP model would provide access to equity finance.
ix Assembly Member Campbell made the distinction between the PPC and PPP
options as regards their capacity to raise capital, and asked the panel how
they would address the roads infrastructure capital requirement. Mr Smyth advised
that EU Structural Funds should be accessed for such capital funding, especially
since under the NI Single Programme 2000-06 it was accepted that the roads
infrastructure required substantial upgrading and development.
x. Assembly Member Beggs sought and received assurance that the PPC option
would protect the other ports in Northern Ireland and would not create unfair
competition.
The Joint Chairperson thanked the panel for their presentation, and they
left the meeting.
Assembly Member Wilson emphasised that the delivery of the roads programme
was crucial and that this issue must be addressed by any preferred option.
He was also uncertain about the role of the golden share under the PPC scheme.
The Clerk agreed to take forward both concerns with the experts.
4. AOB
Assembly Member Bradley proposed that the user groups who represent the other
Northern Ireland ports be given the opportunity to give oral evidence.
Agreed:
The Committee will take oral evidence from any user group wishing to do so.
THURSDAY 29 APRIL 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy (representing Mr A Maskey)
Mr D McClarty
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
Apologies:
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Ms S Bowman
Mr S Wilson took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
i. The representatives from Belfast City Council have agreed to return
to give oral evidence on 20 May, as several standing Committee members were
unable to attend their first presentation.
ii. The Clerk has written to the UUJ Special Advisers asking for their
assessment of the potential capital that could be raised under the PPC scheme
(in light of the new roads infrastructure funding requirements), and to seek
clarification of the role of the golden share under that option.
iii. Warrenpoint Port Users Association will attend to give oral evidence
on 13 May. Londonderry Port does not have a Users Group but the Committee's
invitation to give oral evidence will be passed to each of the Port's operators.
3. Oral evidence: Londonderry Port and Harbour Commission
Witnesses: Mr S McIlvenny (Chief Executive)
Mr C Doherty (Chairman)
Mrs M Breslin (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr S Gillespie (Financial Controller)
4. Oral Evidence: Warrenpoint Harbour Authority
Witnesses: Mr Q Goldie (Chief Executive)
Mr D Connolly (Chairman)
Mr E Curtis (Economic Development Officer, Newry and Mourne District Council)
5. AOB
The Committee will meet next on Wednesday 5 May in Room 135, Parliament Buildings
to take oral evidence from Lord Dubs.
WEDNESDAY 5 MAY 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr PJ Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr M McGimpsey
Mr M Morrow
Mr S Neeson
Mr D O'Connor
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Apologies:
Ms J Morrice
Mr P Roche
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Dr S Donnelly
Mr A Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
i. The UUJ Special Advisers have confirmed that they will assess the potential
capital that could be raised under the PPC scheme and will also clarify the
role of the golden share under that option.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to meet the cost of this additional
work, which will be completed by 17 May.
ii. The Joint Chairperson advised the Committee of a notification from
Sinn Fein confirming Assembly Member Murphy as Assembly Member Doherty's replacement
on the Committee, with effect from 26 April 1999.
3. Oral Evidence: Lord Dubs, Minister for the Environment
Additional witnesses: Mr R McMinnis (Air and Sea Ports Division DoE)
Mrs B Faloona (Air and Sea Ports Division DoE)
Lord Dubs gave extensive oral evidence to the Committee, and accompanying
his submission was a written Memorandum from the DoE, which had already been
furnished to the Committee. He apologised that, due to an unforeseen late change
to his business diary, his evidence session would have to be abbreviated, but
he expressed a willingness to re-attend at a mutually convenient date.
The Joint Chairperson thanked Lord Dubs and his advisers for their presentation,
and they left the meeting.
4. AOB
i. Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Minister should be
invited back to answer questions on a number of outstanding issues and other
matters needing clarification. The Clerk will contact Lord Dubs's office today
to arrange a suitable date.
ii. Assembly Member Neeson expressed concern as to how the public interest
could be safeguarded under the Belfast Harbour Commissioners' (BHCs) preferred
PPP option, especially in relation to the future of the leased land.
Assembly Member Wilson recommended asking the BHCs for a copy of the detailed
proposals that they were to prepare following the Government's agreement last
year, in principle, to the transfer of the Port to the private sector.
Assembly Member McGimpsey reminded the Committee that the BHCs had not yet
responded in writing, as agreed, to his concerns about inconsistencies in relation
to land acreage and its usage that he had identified in some of their documentation
on the Harbour Estate.
The Clerk undertook to write to the BHCs today in relation to the three matters.
THURSDAY 13 MAY 1999
Present:
Mr R Beggs
Mr PJ Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr J Byrne (representing Mr A Maginness)
Mr G Campbell
Mr D McClarty
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Murphy
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Apologies:
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
1. Election of Acting Chairperson
The Clerk advised the Committee that, since neither of the Joint Chairpersons
was able to attend, it was necessary to elect an acting Chairperson for the
meeting.
Assembly Member Neeson proposed Assembly Member Tierney, and this was agreed
to unanimously by the Committee.
Assembly Member Tierney took the Chair.
2. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
3. Matters Arising
i. Lord Dubs will re-attend to give oral evidence on Wednesday 19 May
1999 at 10.30am.
ii. The Clerk has written to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners (BHCs)
for their views on how the public interest could be safeguarded under the PPP
option, and he has also asked for a copy of their detailed proposals for the
Port.
iii. The Clerk has received a reply from the BHCs about the discrepancies
in relation to the Port's land acreage and its usage that Assembly Member McGimpsey
had noted in their brochures, and this has been copied to members.
4. Oral Evidence: Warrenpoint Port Users Association
Witnesses: Mr V McGovern (Hon. Secretary)
Mr J Thornton
Mr N McPartland
5. AOB
i. The Committee noted a letter that the Clerk had received from Mr Robin
McMinnis of the DoE suggesting a meeting between himself, his advisers and
the UUJ Special Advisers to discuss their (UUJ) proposals. The Committee agreed
not to take up the offer, as the Special Advisers' report is imminent.
ii. The Committee agreed to consider the Clerk's draft list of essential
criteria to be met by any preferred option for the Port, which will be tabled
for discussion at the meeting on Thursday 20 May.
WEDNESDAY 19 MAY 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr J Byrne (representing Mr D O'Connor)
Mr G Campbell
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy
Mr J Tierney
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Apologies:
Mr D Watson
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Assembly Member Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
There were no matters arising.
3. Oral Evidence: Lord Dubs, Minister for the Environment
Additional Witnesses: Mr R McMinnis (Air and Sea Ports Division DoE)
Mrs B Faloona (Air and Sea Ports Division DoE)
The Joint Chairperson thanked Lord Dubs and his advisers for their evidence,
and they left the meeting.
4. AOB
i. The Joint Chairperson informed the Committee that Assembly Members
Byrne and Bradley would be replacing Assembly Members O'Connor and McGrady
respectively as Committee standing members. He will confirm the replacements
in writing to the Clerk.
ii. The Committee will consider its future work programme and the draft
list of essential criteria for any preferred option for the Port at the meeting
on Thursday 20 May.
THURSDAY 20 MAY 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley (representing Mr E McGrady)
Mr J Byrne (representing Mr D O'Connor)
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr M Murphy
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr D Watson
Apologies:
Mr S Neeson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Assembly Member Wilson took the Chair.
1. Change to Make-up of Belfast City Council's Oral Evidence Panel
The Joint Chairperson informed the Committee that Assembly Member McGimpsey,
who is Deputy Chairman of Belfast City Council's Development Committee, would
be substituting for Mr Nigel Dodds on the panel.
2. Oral Evidence: Representatives from Belfast City Council
Witnesses: Mr B Hanna (Chief Executive)
Ms M T McGivern (Director of Development)
Mr M McGimpsey (Councillor)
Ms C McAuley (Councillor)
Mr B Stoker (Councillor)
Ms N Skelly
The Joint Chairperson thanked the panel for their very helpful written submission
and oral evidence, and they left the meeting.
3. Draft List of Essential Criteria for Preferred Option for Port of
Belfast
The draft list of essential criteria was accepted, with the following amendments:
i. In the second criterion, substitute "profiteering" for "profiting".
ii. In the third criterion, replace the wording after "Port"
with "must be for the good of all of Northern Ireland's citizens".
iii. The fifth criterion should be excluded, with the understanding that
the release of funding to assist with the roads programme should be a consideration
under any preferred option.
iv. In the sixth criterion, replace the wording after "provide"
with "public accountability".
4. Future Work Programme
i. The Committee agreed to Assembly Member Byrne's suggestion that any
questions in relation to the Belfast Harbour Commissioners' (BHCs) proposals
arising from the oral evidence hearings should be addressed to the BHCs in
writing.
ii. The Clerk will provide an outline sketch of the draft options for
the Port for the Committee to consider at its meeting on Thursday 27 May.
THURSDAY 27 MAY 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy
Mr M McGimpsey
Mr G McHugh (representing Mr A Maskey)
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Apologies: Mr D Watson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Assembly Member Wilson took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Two Meetings
The minutes of the previous two meetings were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
Assembly Member Maginness provided the Clerk with written confirmation of
the changes to the SDLP membership on the Committee, which took effect from
19 May 1999.
3. Committee Report
i. Timetable for Completion of Report
Agreed: The Committee will work towards the completion of a
report by mid-June, in readiness for immediate printing.
ii. Number and dates of future meetings
Agreed: The Committee discussed the frequency of future meetings
and decided to meet on both 2 and 3 June but not on 10 June (due to the European
Elections). It will continue to meet on Thursdays and additional days, where
necessary.
iii. Report Structure
Agreed: The Committee agreed with the Clerk's proposed structure
for the report, including annexes for minutes of meetings, transcripts of oral
evidence and lists of witnesses who gave oral and written evidence. It was
also agreed that the report should include separate sections on:
a. EU funding;
b. the potential effects on the other Northern Ireland ports of
each of the options for the Port of Belfast and;
c. the various interpretations of the legal status of the golden
share in relation to the Port of Belfast.
It was further agreed that reference should be made to the fact that,
although Lord Dubs had declined to give the Committee sight of the DoE's review
on Northern Ireland's Trust Ports due to commercial sensitivities, it was the
Committee's understanding that that document had recommended trust status with
extended powers for the Ports, together with increased public representation.
iv. Report Contents
The Committee began its deliberations on the Clerk's initial paper on the
draft options, a summation of which is set out in a separate annexe.
6. AOB
i. The Clerk will request from the Belfast Harbour Commissioners (BHCs)
a copy of the Ernst and Young report that they had commissioned, which formed
the basis for their argument that the land and port could not be separated
in any sale of Belfast Harbour.
ii. The Committee considered a request from the BHCs for a copy of the
UUJ Special Advisers' report, but, as members had already decided that the
findings should remain confidential, it was regretfully declined.
iii. The Clerk will clarify the content of paragraph 12.2.2 of the paper
on draft options, and he will check the Treasury guidelines on borrowing restrictions.
He will also re-word paragraphs 12.3.7 and 12.3.11 of the paper.
iv. The next meeting will be held at 10.15am on Wednesday 2 June in Room
135, Parliament Buildings.
WEDNESDAY 2 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Apologies: Mr S Neeson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
Assembly Member Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
i. The Clerk has included in draft two of the report separate sections
on EU funding, the golden share and the potential effects on the other Northern
Ireland ports of each of the options for the Port of Belfast.
ii. The Clerk has drafted an additional section on the Review of Trust
Ports in Northern Ireland.
iii. The Belfast Harbour Commissioners have agreed to the Clerk's request
for a copy of the Arthur Andersen report that they had commissioned.
iv. The Clerk relayed to the Committee verbal comments that he had received
from Department of Finance and Personnel officials in relation to Treasury
guidelines on borrowing restrictions. It was agreed that the Clerk should seek
confirmation in writing.
v. The Clerk further advised that he had spoken to the managing director
of Dover Port, who confirmed that the Port's borrowing ability was based purely
on its turnover.
3. Committee Report
The Committee continued its deliberations on the initial paper on the draft
options [paras 12.4 to 12.6.15 inclusive], a summation of which is set out
in a separate annexe.
4. AOB
Assembly Member Morrice made a declaration of interest on the basis that
she is a member of the Laganside Corporation. The Joint Chairperson thanked
her for the disclosure, which the Committee noted.
THURSDAY 3 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Apologies:
Mr S Neeson
Mr D Watson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
1. Election of an Acting Chairperson
The Clerk sought nominations for an Acting Chairperson pending the arrival
of Assembly Member Maginness, who had sent his apologies in advance. Assembly
Member Byrne proposed Assembly Member Tierney, and this was agreed to unanimously
by the Committee.
Assembly Member Tierney took the Chair.
2. Committee Report
i. Report Contents
The Committee resumed its deliberations on the draft report at para.13,
a summation of which is included in a separate annexe.
Assembly Member Maginness replaced Assembly Member Tierney in the Chair after
para. 18.
ii. Draft Options
The Committee agreed unanimously to exclude both the status quo and trade
sale as preferred options. It will begin to match the remaining four options
against the essential criteria at its next meeting.
3. AOB
i. It was agreed that the Clerk would reply to a letter from the Initial
Presiding Officer to the Joint Chairpersons regarding a recent article in the
Business Telegraph on the Port of Belfast.
ii. The Clerk will write to advise members of the relevant papers to bring
to the next meeting, where the remaining options will be examined.
iii. The next meeting will be held on Wednesday 9 June at 10.15am in Room
135, Parliament Buildings.
WEDNESDAY 9 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr G Campbell
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr M McGimpsey
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr M Murphy
Mr P Roche
Apologies:
Mr S Neeson
Ms J Morrice
Mr J Tierney
In Attendance: Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
Assembly Member Wilson took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
i. The Clerk is still awaiting a copy of the Arthur Andersen report from
the Belfast Harbour Commissioners, which the Committee can expect to receive
shortly.
ii. The Clerk has written to the Initial Presiding Officer to seek his
and CAPO's advice on how the Committee's report is to be presented.
3. Committee Report
The Committee agreed some amendments to draft two of the report and continued
its deliberations on matching the four remaining options against the essential
criteria, a summation of which is included in a separate annexe.
4. AOB
i. In light of the Belfast Harbour Commissioners' supplementary PPP proposal
and Lord Dubs's related request for a meeting with the Joint Chairpersons,
it was agreed that the full Committee should meet Lord Dubs and the BHCs separately
to discuss the proposals. The Clerk will contact both parties to check their
availability to attend the Committee's meeting on Wednesday 16 June.
ii. The Clerk will write to the BHCs to request a breakdown of the current
usage of the 855 acres of Port-related land that was referred to in their submission.
iii. The Clerk will write to the Department of Finance and Personnel for
confirmation about whether PSBR borrowing restrictions apply equally to the
Ports of Dover and Belfast; and if not, why not? The position of Dublin Port's
borrowing powers in relation to the Irish Republic's PSBR will also be checked.
iv. The Committee condoled with its colleague Assembly Member Morrice
on the recent death of her father. The Clerk will prepare a letter of sympathy
from the Joint Chairpersons on behalf of the Committee.
v. It was suggested that the Speaker's Office should inform party whips
immediately on notification of the death of a Member's close relative. The
Clerk will take the matter forward.
vi. The Committee will meet next on Wednesday 16 and Thursday 17 June
and, provisionally, on Friday 18 June.
WEDNESDAY 16 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairman)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Mr F Cobain
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Morrow
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Apologies:
Mr S Neeson
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr S Wilson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
Assembly Member Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
i. The Belfast Harbour Commissioners have forwarded a copy of the Arthur
Anderson report and a paper giving a breakdown of the usage of Port-related
land, which the Clerk has copied to Committee members.
ii. The Clerk has also copied the Department of Finance and Personnel's
response to the Committee's request for information on the borrowing powers
of the Ports of Belfast, Dover and Dublin and their relationships with their
respective PSBRs.
3. Oral evidence: Belfast Harbour Commissioners
Representatives: Mr F Cushnahan (Chairman)
Mr G Irwin (Chief Executive)
Ms A McLaughlin (Commissioner)
The Joint Chairperson welcomed the Belfast Harbour Commissioners to the private
session and asked them first to give a resume of the position in relation to
Belfast Harbour's land and then speak to their letter of June 8 to Lord Dubs,
which outlined a proposed amendment to their preferred option.
Mr Irwin gave detailed separate breakdowns of the Harbour's land held on
the Counties Antrim and Down sides. He pointed out that the land currently
leased to Shorts' and Harland and Wolff was long-term (125 years), with the
exception of 75 acres in Abercorn Basin, the lease on which is due to expire
in 2019.
He then outlined the BHCs' proposal for the creation of a new public sector
body under the PPP option, which would take over the existing leases of Shorts'
(excepting the Belfast City Airport terminal) and Harland and Wolff through
the granting of an overriding long-term master lease. The purpose of the proposal
was to provide public sector control of the relationships with the principal
lessees in the development of the land, together with vesting powers where
land was being left undeveloped. It was by way of a reaction to many concerns
expressed about, for example, the present planning process and was intended
to support wider public sector involvement in decision-making.
In such a scenario the BHC plc would seek the right to have one director
on the new public body and to continue to receive its present rentals and a
share (unspecified) of any future gains derived from a change in the land's
usage. For example, Harland & Wolff's current minimal rental charge applies
only insofar as the leased land is used for shipbuilding. However, the development
of land for anything other than core activities would necessitate re-negotiating
the lease with the public body, and this would inevitably involve new charges
at commercial rates, the benefits of which would be shared by the new public
body and the BHC plc.
Mr Irwin advised that the exclusion of the new City Airport development (of
some 60 acres) was because the value of the licence fee, currently £400,000,
was to be built into the sale price of Belfast Port on flotation day. The runway
is not included in the development, and, in the event of the airport ceasing
to operate, that land would revert to the new public body.
Ms McLaughlin explained that the reason the proposal did not include all
the land was that, if the Port were to float, the BHCs felt it would need income
from the rest of the land to give it sufficient financial strength. These revenue
streams were seen as essential for the sustainability of the business and,
for example, the financing of infrastructure improvements. The BHCs acknowledge
that the Port could be sold without the land but opined that it could not be
successfully floated in that scenario.
The BHCs want to develop the Port as an integrated business - involving transport,
storage and distribution - and to this end are currently reclaiming 50 acres
on the County Antrim side that will help to meet the ever-increasing (warehousing)
unit load demands.
Mr Irwin will provide the Committee with a valuation of the Port's assets
based on the BHC's latest profit and loss account. He confirmed that the current
rental income from non-port land was £1.2m and £400,000 from the airport licence.
There are 50 acres on the County Down side available for lease, which are being
currently marketed.
The Joint Chairperson thanked the BHCs for their evidence, and they left
the meeting.
THURSDAY 17 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Mr F Cobain
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Mr M Morrow
Mr M Murphy
Mr P Roche
Mr S Neeson
Mr J Tierney
Apologies: Mr S Wilson
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
Assembly Member Maginness took the Chair.
1. Matters Arising
The Joint Chairperson advised the Committee of the Speaker's Office reply
to the Committee's suggestion regarding bereavement notifications to party
whips, which members noted.
2. Options Paper
The Committee concluded the process of matching the four remaining options
against the list of essential criteria. (The attached matrix summarises its
findings.)
The Committee agreed that it was crucial for Lord Dubs to clarify the funding
commitments to the Northern Ireland block from the proceeds of any sale of
Belfast Port.
3. AOB
i. The Clerk provided members with a copy of Lord Dubs's reply to Assembly
Member Wilson's enquiry about the legislation pertaining to the Port of Dover.
ii. The Clerk advised the Committee that Mr Andrew McCormick from the
Department of Finance and Personnel would attend tomorrow's meeting with Lord
Dubs. (He will be on hand to explain the implications for the PSBR of the various
options.)
FRIDAY 18 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr M McGimpsey
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Murphy
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
Assembly Member Maginness took the Chair.
1. Oral Evidence: The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Lord Dubs
Additional Witnesses: Mr R McMinnis (The Department of the Environment)
Mr A McCormick (The Department of Finance and Personnel)
The Joint Chairperson welcomed Lord Dubs and his advisers to the meeting,
and he asked him to make his opening remarks in relation to the BHCs' amended
proposals, as set out in their letter to him of 8 June 1999.
i. Lord Dubs first explained that the proposed changes were as a direct
response to important concerns raised by the Committee at previous meetings.
Essentially the proposal was to privatise the main operation of the Harbour
under a new BH plc, while separating large tracts of non port-operational land
(with development potential), which would come under a master lease held by
a new publicly controlled body (BHDC). In this way, the new public corporation
could develop land through leases, thereby maximising public benefit.
ii. The Minister impressed upon the Committee the serious implications
for the present public expenditure programme in the absence of proceeds from
the flotation of the Harbour. He advised that the £70m in the Chancellor's
Initiative for the Strategic Road Scheme had been built into the Treasury assessment
for this year's budget, and, in its absence, the proposed infrastructure improvements
would go by default. Moreover, such a significant hole in the budget would
mean the re-phasing of the current public expenditure programme and a delay
in work due to begin this year on, for example, major school projects, housing
capital schemes, the Science Park, the Leckpatrick bypass, the Antrim/Ballymena
dualling and the beef marketing programme. He stressed that any delay in reaching
a decision on the sale of the Port could lead to expenditure cuts for the coming
year, affecting, for example, two bypasses the contracts for which are due
to go out in the next two weeks.
iii. As regards the possibility of using Dover Port as a model for Belfast,
Lord Dubs advised that this would require primary legislation. He also pointed
out that Dover Port had no public control and that the Government cannot influence
its investment decisions or touch its reserves.
iv. Several members expressed deep concern about the linkage of the sale
of Belfast Port with the various public expenditure commitments. Lord Dubs
acknowledged that the setting of priorities in politics inevitably meant making
tough and painful decisions that were sometimes not popular; indeed, the new
Assembly would have such discretion in having to make up the £70m gap in the
budget were the Port not sold.
v. The Minister was reminded of his previous undertaking that any additional
money raised through the sale of the Port over and above the £70m that has
been promised for the roads infrastructure would be retained in the Northern
Ireland block, and he was asked if this was still the case. Lord Dubs said
that the Chancellor had not specified what would happen in the event of substantially
more funds being raised. In that scenario it would be for the Assembly to negotiate
with Treasury, but the Minister would be hopeful of a sympathetic response.
Mr McCormick advised that the Treasury would look at a range of needs and its
decision would depend on how it saw public expenditure being handled in Northern
Ireland. The Assembly's case would be bolstered though if it had convincing
arguments and a clear timetable for the proposed sale of the Port.
vi. Lord Dubs then informed the Committee of a new proposal that he was
considering putting to the BHCs in an attempt to allay members' concerns about
the land issue. This would, in effect, hand the new Belfast Harbour Development
Corporation the freehold of the Harbour Estate, and the BH plc would be granted
a long-term lease for Port operations at a competitive rate. He envisaged the
BH plc retaining the rentals on existing leases, which would be needed to underpin
a successful flotation. The new Development Corporation would derive income
incrementally as land not currently leased, or on which the lease is due to
expire in the next few years, came on stream for development. Some negotiation
would be required between the two parties on revenue that would flow from land
coming up for development on existing leases. Although the detail needed to
be worked out, the Minister's aim would be to strike a balance in relation
to income flows. Mr McMinnis undertook to write to the Committee after Lord
Dubs's meeting with the BHCs to clarify the position on the proposals for the
following: the BHDC's equity stake; the golden share; the ownership of the
land staying in public hands; and the revenue flow for the BHDC.
vii. Lord Dubs stressed that democratic accountability would be crucial
to whatever public body was set up under a change in the Port's status. He
suggested that its membership could be split equally between the DoE and Belfast
City Council, thereby bringing together a variety of skills.
viii. In response to some members' concerns about the fact that no valuation
has been made of Belfast Port, Mr McMinnis assured the Committee that it was
intended that three separate valuations be carried out in the event of the
sale of the Port. One would be undertaken by the BHCs, another by the DoE and
there would be an independent one based on the best commercial advice on the
development potential of the land.
ix.. Lord Dubs responded to concerns raised about the potential effects
of the sale of Belfast Port on Northern Ireland's other Trust Ports by emphasising
that there should be healthy competition based on a level playing field. He
referred to the golden share as a tool to prevent aggressive price-cutting
and the proposed extended powers for the other ports that would give them greater
commercial freedom. He also pointed out that Warrenpoint could face greater
competition in the future from the ports of Drogheda, Dundalk and Dublin than
from Belfast.
The Joint Chairperson thanked Lord Dubs and his advisers for their evidence,
and they left the meeting.
TUESDAY 22 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Mr D McClarty
Mr M McGimpsey
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Ms J Morrice
Mr S Neeson
Mr J Tierney
Apologies:
Mr P J Bradley
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr P Roche
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs D Williams
Mr D Harkin Ms V Surplus
Mrs K McFerran
Assembly Member Wilson took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the previous two meetings
The minutes of the previous two meetings were agreed.
2. Matters Arising
The Committee to Advise the Presiding Officer (CAPO) has informed the Clerk
that it is not yet in a position to advise on how the Ad Hoc Committee's report
is to be presented before the Assembly.
3. Draft Report on Options
The Committee continued its deliberations on the remaining options, in the
light of the evidence given last week by Lord Dubs and the BHCs. The Clerk
will issue the Committee with an initial draft paper of recommendations, to
reflect members' views expressed to date, for discussion at its next meeting.
He will also prepare an additional paragraph in the draft report on the linkage
of public expenditure commitments with any sale of the Port.
4. AOB
It was agreed that it would be beneficial for the Joint Chairpersons to visit
the Harbour Estate to ascertain an exact breakdown of the usage of the land
that the BHCs describe as "Port related". The Clerk will contact
the BHCs to arrange a suitable time for the visit.
WEDNESDAY 23 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr M Murphy
Mr M Morrow
Mr S Neeson
Apologies:
Mr P J Bradley
Mr D McClarty
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Mrs D Williams
Ms V Surplus
Mr S Wilson took the Chair.
1. Draft Report
The Committee considered the draft report's recommendations, and its findings
are summarised in the attached annexe.
2. AOB
i. The Clerk will accompany the Joint Chairperson Mr Wilson for a tour
of the Port-related land on the Harbour Estate at 12.00pm on Friday June 25.
All Committee members will be invited in writing to join the visit.
ii. The Committee will meet next on Tuesday 29 June at 2.00pm in Room
115, Parliament Buildings.
TUESDAY 29 JUNE 1999
Present:
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Mr R Beggs
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Murphy
Mr M Morrow
Mr D McClarty
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Mrs D Williams
Ms V Surplus
Mr A Maginness took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Three Meetings.
The Committee agreed the minutes of the meetings of 18, 22 and 23 June 1999.
2. Matters Arising
i. The Joint Chairperson Mr Wilson briefed the Committee on his recent
visit to Belfast Harbour where Mr Gordon Irwin, chief executive of the Belfast
Harbour Commissioners, gave him a detailed breakdown of the usage of "Port
related land", followed by a tour of the County Antrim side of the Harbour
Estate.
Mr Wilson advised that he was satisfied that the land was, indeed, currently
being used for Port related activities, such as the discharging of cargo, craneage
and warehousing. Although there were some empty sites in close proximity to
timber and coal storage areas, Mr Irwin stated that they would not be suitable
for commercial development because of dust-related problems.
Mr Wilson did, though, express some concern about a Port related area
on the County Down side, a part of which Esso intend to vacate shortly for
a site closer to the Harbour itself. Although this area was still being referred
to by the BHCs as "Port related", there was no guarantee about its
future usage.
Mr Irwin had argued strenuously for the retention of Port regulatory
functions, such as shipping controls, dredging and the maintenance of buoys,
to remain under the control of the Harbour Master. The Committee agreed that
this was the best means of ensuring clear accountability in this regard.
ii. The Clerk met with a representative from a Belfast firm of stockbrokers
for an assessment of the potential for a flotation of the Port under the Committee's
proposal. The representative was in no doubt that the Port could be successfully
floated based on the BHCs' latest (1997) annual account figures.
iii. As Lord Dubs's letter to the Committee outlining the BHCs'revised
proposals for the sale of the Port was only received during the meeting, discussion
on it was deferred until members had time to digest its content in full. Several
members did note, though, that the paper did not envisage the Government's
retaining the freehold of all of the land, as the Minister had previously suggested.
3. Draft Report
The Clerk issued members with draft 4 of the report, which included initial
conclusions and recommendations. Members agreed to examine the report prior
to the final Committee meeting when any suggested changes could be tabled for
discussion.
Assembly Member Wilson provided the Committee with the summary of the House
of Commons Select Committee on Public Accounts's conclusions and recommendations
relating to the sale of Belfast International Airport. The Committee will reflect
on the document, which may be used to inform the recommendations in the draft
report.
4. AOB
The next Meeting (which is expected to be the final one) will take place
on Friday 2 July at 10.15am in Room 144, Parliament Buildings.
FRIDAY 2 JULY 1999
Present:
Mr S Wilson (Joint Chairperson)
Mr P J Bradley
Mr J Byrne
Mr G Campbell
Mr B Hutchinson
Mr J Kelly (representing Mr A Maskey)
Mr A Maginness (Joint Chairperson)
Ms J Morrice
Mr M Murphy
Mr M Morrow
Mr S Neeson
Mr P Roche
Mr J Tierney
In Attendance:
Mr G Martin Mrs K McFerran
Mr D Harkin Mrs D Williams
Ms V Surplus
Mr S Wilson took the Chair.
1. Minutes of the Previous Meeting.
The Committee agreed the minutes of the previous meeting.
2. Draft Report
The Committee continued its deliberations on the report's recommendations,
and the agreed changes are summarised in the attached annexe.
The members present agreed the draft report unanimously.
3. AOB
i Members expressed concerns that, should there be a delay in the implementation
of devolution, the Government may decide to proceed to enact the proposals
of the Belfast Harbour Commissioners without being aware of the Committee's
views. It was agreed that in such circumstances the Joint Chairpersons should
both meet the Minister, Lord Dubs, for an informal discussion.
ii As this was the final Committee meeting, it was agreed that the Joint
Chairperson could approve the minutes on behalf of the members.
ANNEXE B
LIST OF WITNESSES WHO
GAVE ORAL EVIDENCE
11 March 1999
Mr D P Galway and Capt. A K W Gardiner [Larne Harbour Ltd] 87 to 95
Mr F Cushnahan, Ms A McLaughlin and Mr G Irwin
[Belfast Harbour Commissioners] 97 to 107
25 March 1999
Mr M McAree, Mr L Murray and Mr D Malseed
[Belfast Harbour Users Group] 109 to 117
Mr B Graham, Mr A Quirey and Mr J Quinn
[Port of Belfast Harbour Trade Union Side] 119 to 126
1 April
Mr N Dodds, Ms C McAuley, Mr R Stoker,
Mr B Hanna and Ms M T McGivern [Belfast City Council] 127 to 134
29 April 1999
Mr S McIlvenny, Mr C Doherty, Mrs M Breslin and Mr S Gillespie
[Londonderry Port and Harbour Commissioners] 135 to 141
Mr Q Goldie, Mr D Connolly and Mr E Curtis
[Warrenpoint Harbour Authority] 143 to 150
5 May 1999
Lord Dubs [The Minister for the Environment], Mr R McMinnis
and Mrs B Faloona [The Department of the Environment] 151 to 158
13 May 1999
Mr V McGovern, Mr J Thornton and Mr N McPartland
[Warrenpoint Harbour Users' Group] 159 to 165
19 May 1999
Lord Dubs [The Minister for the Environment], Mr R McMinnis
and Mrs B Faloona [The Department of the Environment] 167 to 181
20 May 1999
Mr M McGimpsey, Ms N Skelly, Ms C McAuley, Mr R Stoker,
Mr B Hanna and Ms M T McGivern [Belfast City Council] 183 to 191
ANNEXE C
LIST OF ORGANISATIONS THAT
GAVE WRITTEN EVIDENCE
Antrim Borough Council
Ards Borough Council
Ballymena Borough Council
Ballymoney Borough Council
Banbridge Borough Council
Belfast City Council
Belfast Freight Ferries
Belfast Harbour Commissioners
Belfast Harbour Users Group
Belfast Shipping Agents Association
Bombardier Aerospace
Bord Failte
Carrickfergus Borough Council
Confederation of British Industry [Northern Ireland]
Coleraine Borough Council
Craigavon Borough Council
Dover Harbour Board
Down District Council
Dungannon District Council
Fermanagh District Council
First Trust Bank
Harland and Wolff Holdings plc
Institute of Directors [Northern Ireland Division]
Larne Borough Council
Larne Harbour Ltd
Londonderry Port and Harbour Authority
Newry and Mourne District Council
Northern Ireland Environment Link
Port of Belfast Harbour Trade Union Side
Strabane District Council
The Department of Economic Development
The Department of the Environment
Warrenpoint Harbour Authority
Warrenpoint Port Users' Association
