The Committee for Regional Development is a Statutory Departmental Committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly established in accordance with paragraphs 8 and 9 of strand one of the Belfast Agreement, section 29 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 and under Standing Order 48 of the Northern Ireland Assembly. The Committee has a scrutiny, policy development and consultation role with respect to the Department for Regional Development and has a role in the initiation of legislation.

The Committee has the power to:

• Consider and advise on departmental budgets and annual plans in the context of the overall budget allocation;
• Consider relevant secondary legislation and take the Committee Stage of relevant primary legislation;
• Call for persons and papers;
• Initiate inquiries and make reports; and
• Consider and advise on matters brought to the committee by the Minister for Regional Development.

Membership

The Committee is appointed at the start of every Assembly, and has power to send for persons, papers and records that are relevant to its inquiries.

The Committee has eleven Members, including a Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson, with a quorum of five Members.

The membership of the Committee since its establishment on 9 May 2007 has been as follows:

Mr Fred Cobain (Chairperson)
Miss Michelle McIlveen (Deputy Chairperson) 4
Mr Billy Armstrong 2
Mr Cathal Boylan 10
Mr Allan Bresland 1
Mr Billy Leonard 6
Ms Anna Lo 7, 11
Mr Fra McCann 9
Mr Ian McCrea 5
Mr Conall McDevitt 3, 8
Mr George Robinson

[1]

[1]1 With effect from 15 September 2008 Mr Allan Bresland replaced Mr William Irwin and Mr Alastair Ross replaced
Mr Stephen Moutray.

2 With effect from 22 June 2009 Mr Danny Kinahan replaced Mr John McCallister.

3 With effect from 29 June 2009 Mr Tommy Gallagher replaced Mr John Dallat.

4 With effect from 4 July 2009 Miss Michelle McIlveen replaced Mr Jim Wells.

5 With effect from 16 September 2009 Mr Ian McCrea replaced Mr Alastair Ross.

6 With Effect from 13 April 2010 Mr Billy Leonard replaced Mr Raymond McCartney.

7 With effect from 13 April 2010 Mr Brian Wilson ceased to be a Member of the Committee for Regional Development and Mr Trevor Lunn was appointed as a Member of the Committee for Regional Development.

8 With effect from 24 May 2010 Mr Conall McDevitt replaced Mr Tommy Gallagher.

9 With effect from 13 September 2010 Mr Fra McCann replaced Mr Willie Clarke.

10 With effect from 1 November 2010 Mr Billy Armstrong replaced Mr Danny Kinahan.

11 With effect from 15 November 2010 Ms Anna Lo replaced Mr Trevor Lunn.

Table of Contents

List of Abbreviations and acronyms used in the report

1 Introduction

2 Background

2.1 The Committee's approach to the launch event 2

2.2 Committee outputs and next steps 3

3 Issues arising during plenary discussion

3.1 Harnessing existing transport resources across the public sector to deliver flexible, responsive and value for money public transport. 4

3.2 Young people want to travel cheaper and 'smarter' 4

3.3 The public transport experience 5

3.4 Making the links: integrating public transport with active travel 6

3.5 Shaping the future of public transport 6

3.6 Other issues 6

Appendix 1 – Minutes of Proceedings (Extracts)

Wednesday, 8 September 2010 11

Wednesday, 10 November 2010 12

Wednesday, 17 November 2010 13

Wednesday, 1 December 2010 14

Wednesday, 8 December 2010 15

Wednesday, 15 December 2010 16

Wednesday, 12 January 2011 17

Wednesday, 19 January 2011 18

Wednesday, 9 February 2011 19

Wednesday, 16 February 2011 20

Wednesday, 23 February 2011 21

Wednesday, 16 March 2011 22

Appendix 2 - Minutes of Evidence

Consumer Council Northern Ireland and YouthAction: Launch of 'Transport Matters'
Report, Wednesday 12 January 2011 25

Appendix 3 – Written Submissions

Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel, 12 January 2011 39

Appendix 4 - About the 'Transport Matters' Report 43

Appendix 5 – List of invited attendees at the launch of the "Transport Matters" report 47

Appendix 6 – Press Release

Press Release, 12 January 2011 51

List of Abbreviations and Acronyms used in the Report

CTA Community Transport Association
DRD Department for Regional Development
ICT Information and Communications Technologies
IMTAC The Inclusive Mobility and Transport Advisory Committee
NI Northern Ireland
NICCY Northern Ireland Commissioner for Children and Young People
The Committee The Committee for Regional Development
The Department The Department for Regional Development

Introduction

1 Introduction

1. This report sets out the Committee's consideration of the evidence it received during the Committee's event to launch 'Transport Matters'; a report on young people's experiences, attitudes and ideas for improving public transport. The report, and the research on which it is based, were produced by young people with the support of the Consumer Council and YouthAction.

2. When the Committee heard about the research and how it was designed and carried out by young people, for young people, Members were very keen to hear the outcomes. For the Committee, it is fantastic to see young people interested in shaping public policy, and in finding ways to improve services.

3. The Committee wanted to host this event to give people involved in the research the opportunity to speak directly to Members and to key stakeholders about their views and ideas on public transport. The Committee is pleased to publish this report on the event, and looks forward with interest to see how the Department for Regional Development responds to the recommendations in the report.

2 Background

4. On Wednesday, 12 January 2011, the Committee for Regional Development sponsored the launch of 'Transport Matters', a report on young people's experiences, attitudes and ideas for improving public transport.

5. This research was carried out through YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme by young people in Greater Belfast, Derry/Londonderry and Fermanagh, with support provided to these young people by the Consumer Council and YouthAction. The aims of the research were to:

• Identify young people's attitudes, views and experiences of using public transport; and
• Ensure the needs of young people are considered in the development of public transport policy and provision.

6. The "Transport Matters" report made 10 recommendations on issues such as integrated transport planning, including active transport measures such as cycling and walking; the creation and promotion of concessionary fares and discounts for young people; safety and accessibility of bus stops and stations; addressing distances to bus stops; and using social media and ICT to enhance the attractiveness of public transport for young people.

7. In making these recommendations, the young people recognised that some of the issues identified through the research would be harder to address as they would require substantial developments and infrastructure to achieve. However, they also were of the view that many of the issues identified could be implemented at relatively marginal cost, such as improving existing facilities and customer service to meet the needs of younger passengers.

2.1 The Committee's approach to the launch event

8. The primary focus of the event was to launch the 'Transport Matters' report. However, it also provided the Committee with an opportunity to engage with young people on public transport issues, and to afford the group of young people who carried out the research and compiled the report with the opportunity to engage with key stakeholders in the policy making process – which was one of their research aims.

9. The event was held in the Long Gallery, Parliament Buildings on Wednesday 12 January 2011. It ran from 4pm to 6pm, and was structured as follows:

• Welcome from Chairperson of the Committee for Regional Development;
• Brief introduction to the research by Consumer Council and YouthAction;
• Drama presentation of the key findings and recommendations from the research by the young people from YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme;
• Plenary session on the report conclusions and recommendations, chaired by the Chairperson of the Committee for Regional Development; and
• Closing remarks by the Chairperson of the Committee for Regional Development.

10. The purpose of the plenary event was to facilitate a discussion between the key transport providers and stakeholders and the young people who carried out this research, on the report's findings and recommendations.

11. In addition to the participants in the research, invitations were extended to key transport stakeholders, the relevant government departments and transport providers. A list of attendees can be found at Appendix 5. All participants in the plenary event were provided with an embargoed copy of the report and asked to be prepared to engage with the young people on the report's recommendations.

2.2 Committee outputs and next steps

12. The plenary session was covered by the official report. The transcript of proceedings, which is included at appendix 2, has been used to formulate this report to the Minister for Regional Development.

13. The Committee commends the 'Transport Matters' report to the Minister's attention, together with material in the following section reflecting the issues explored during the plenary session.

14. The Committee recommends that the Minister, and where appropriate Translink, responds to the issues raised in this report.

15. The Committee also commends this report to an incoming Regional Development Committee, and suggests that an incoming Committee may wish to explore this report, and the response to it from the Minister and Translink, at an early meeting in the new mandate.

3 Issues arising during plenary discussion

16. The "Transport Matters" report made 10 recommendations which, to a large extent, provided the focus during the plenary event. The following paragraphs are organised to reflect this discussion.

3.1 Harnessing existing transport resources across the public sector to deliver flexible, responsive and value for money public transport

17. The "Transport Matters" report recommended the development of an integrated approach from all sectors providing transport including Translink, community transport, education and health transport and taxis to ensure services meet the needs of young people in rural areas. There was a considerable amount of discussion on this issue.

18. The young people present, from YouthAction, the Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel and Right Here, Fermanagh, all stressed the importance of access to transport in their lives – to participate in education, training, sports and social activities and in taking up full or part-time employment opportunities. Transport was identified as important for young people generally, however its importance in rural areas was highlighted as, in many places, distances to bus stops were significant and services were infrequent, or did not run in the evenings. As one participant said:

"…the last bus that I can get [home] is 5.45pm. I cannot get home by public transport any time after that. Young people have the same problem: buses are not running after 6.00pm or 6.30pm, and we cannot get young people together into groups to do things. They rely on taxis, other young people, their friends or parents to run them places. If public transport were running, they would not have that problem of getting to groups. It is hard enough to get young people in a rural area involved in groups without having the problem of getting them to a meeting place."

19. Discussing options to address these barriers, Members and participants were aware of the difficult public finance context which Northern Ireland is facing. The Community Transport Association identified the significant amount of transport resources available across departments such as Health, Social Services and Public Safety and Education, and recommended a cross-departmental approach to planning and utilising transport resources in a flexible and responsive way.

20. The Committee supports this approach and recommends that both Translink and the Department takes forward work on this issue as a matter of urgency. More recently, the Committee heard from Translink that it has started work on this issue, although it is at an early stage[1]. There is a strong economic rationale, in the current climate, to utilise existing transport resources more effectively. It is the view of the Committee that strong political leadership, across departments, will be required to drive forward a move to integrating the transport resources held across the public sector and harnessing them to meet the needs of all groups in society, young people, older people and those living in rural communities.

3.2 Young people want to travel cheaper and 'smarter'

21. The introduction of concessionary or discounted fares for young people (up to 25 years of age), and the use of new media to target advertising and promotions to young people were also recommended. These recommendations stimulated a lot of discussion of the desirability of concessionary fares for young people, particularly targeting those between 16 and 25. The move to full adult fare at the age of 16 was queried, as was the fare structure (cost increases per zone) and the overall level of fares and annual fare increases. The following quotes encapsulate much of the discussion:

"I am from west Belfast, up on the Andytown road. It costs £1.70 to get into town … Through the years, the prices have gone up every so often. I am not particularly happy about that because I go into town every week, so I spend a lot more money than I should. I should be walking down to Andytown, but I got the bus once and it cost me £1 to get from one wee small area to another wee area in Andytown. I could have walked it – it would have taken about five minutes – but I decided to get the bus, and £1 for something like that is bizarre, never mind £1.70 to get into town. It is £1 to do that wee small journey: I do not understand what is happening there."

" … Many of the financial restrictions that a person faces at 16 they face from the ages of 16 to 25 because of A-levels and the fact that they only have time for part-time work. There are also university fees to pay. There are student cards for a discount – usually 10% or 20% - in private stores, and we would support a similar scheme for public transport."

22. Translink, in its response to the issue of cost, pointed out the considerable savings that could be achieved by using a Smartlink card – around 35% on a cash fare. Instead of paying £1.70 on a Metro or Ulsterbus cash fare, the cost per journey is around £1.10 with a Smartlink card. A customer has to add five journeys to the card, which can be used any time in 12 months. Cards can be purchased on line or at Translink agents, and can be topped up at any agent in Northern Ireland. Translink also spoke about its work on developing a youth ticket – a fully integrated product with Northern Ireland Railways, Ulsterbus and Metro – for those aged between 16 and 23, which it hopes to have in place by next year. The Committee also heard about ongoing work to develop mobile phone ticketing and more flexible electronic tickets.

23. Members considered the arguments presented for a youth discount scheme. The Committee is in favour, in principle, of a discount scheme for young people, however Members were of the view that more detailed consideration would be needed to examine costs, projected take up rates and details of the operation of any such scheme before it could endorse any particular discount scheme.

24. In the interim, Members are of the view that the reductions offered by using a Smartlink card represent a good saving on the cash fare, and encourages Translink and the Department to continue to explore the possibility of introducing discounted fares for young people, either through the youth ticket option mentioned by Translink or via another option.

25. The Committee also discussed the use of new media and technologies to target advertising and promotions towards young people. Although some Committee Members admitted they were not totally familiar with the new media and technologies, many of the Members were, and all Members recognised that the new social media and new technologies such as smartphone timetabling apps and mobile ticketing were the preferred ways of communicating for young people.

26. The Committee supports the use of new media and m-technology to promote the use of public transport, provide information on timetables and as a vehicle for ticketing, and encourages the development of this area of Translink's work as soon as possible.

3.3 The public transport experience

27. Two recommendations in the "Transport Matters" report related to the experience of public transport. The report recommended that Translink should continue to explore options for enhancing their buses and trains with the provision of wi-fi for longer journeys, and continue to provide regular and appropriate customer service training to all drivers to ensure a high quality service to young people.

28. The Committee supports the development of buses and trains to enhance the customer experience, including options for the provision of wi-fi on long journeys.

29. Turning specifically to customer service, the Committee is of the view that the vast majority of Translink staff provide courteous and professional service to their customers every day. However there can, on occasion, be exceptions when customers receive poor service. Translink referred to the emphasis it places on customer care and stated that their drivers and conductors go through rigorous courses. It did admit that things do sometimes go wrong, especially as it provides 78 million passenger journeys every year. The representative from Translink encouraged those present to make a complaint if they encounter poor customer service.

30. The Committee supports Translink's work to ensure that all its customers receive a professional, friendly and high quality service. Members were of the view that, in those cases where service is not to the highest quality, it is important that the customer makes a complaint, as this will ultimately drive up service standards for everyone.

3.4 Making the links: integrating public transport with active travel

31. The report recommended that Translink should work with DRD to ensure other forms of transport, such as cycling, can integrate with public transport. This could involve more facilities to safely park bicycles in rural areas, as well as bicycle hire schemes in urban areas which are located at public transport stations.

32. The Committee has long been supportive of sustainable transport, and would wholeheartedly endorse these recommendations.

3.5 Shaping the future of public transport

33. The "Transport Matters" report recommended the need to ensure that young people continue to be engaged in how public transport is designed and delivered across Northern Ireland. Acting on this recommendation was a key factor in the Committee's sponsorship of the launch of the "Transport Matters" report, and the reason it organised the plenary event on which this report is based.

34. The Committee was pleased to hear both Translink and the Department for Regional Development commend the quality and usefulness of the research report. During the plenary discussion, the Department for Regional Development offered more dialogue with YouthAction on the report's findings as part of the development of the Regional Transportation Strategy. Translink identified its Youth Forum, established in 2009, as a way in which young people could engage in how public transport is designed and delivered, and offered to accommodate the report's authors in the forum if they so wished.

35. The Committee encourages the young people involved in the event to take up the opportunities for engaging and influencing, highlighted by the Department for Regional Development and Translink, and admonishes those organisations to follow through on their offers in a timely and meaningful way.

3.6 Other issues

36. The following recommendations were contained in the "Transport Matters" report, however they did not feature in the plenary discussion.

• The Department for Regional Development (DRD) should implement a policy that ensures everyone is within a reasonable distance (no more than 2 miles) of a bus stop.
• DRD Roads Service should improve footpaths, lighting and signs at rural bus stops to allow young people to access services safely and encourage more use of public transport.

37. The Committee notes the recommendations.

38. The Committee would like to thank everyone who attended this event and participated in the plenary discussion session. The Committee looks forward to receiving a response from the Minister and from Translink to the "Transport Matters" report and the Committee's recommendations.

[1] Committee for Regional Development stakeholder engagement event on the Draft Budget 2011-15, Wednesday 26 January 2011.

Background

Issues arising during plenary discussion

Issues arising during plenary discussion

Appendix 1

Minutes of Proceedings (Extracts)

Wednesday 8 September 2010
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Cathal Boylan MLA
Danny Kinahan MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Trevor Lunn MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Allan Bresland MLA
Willie Clarke MLA

10.38am The meeting commenced in open session.

11. Correspondence

Agreed: The Committee noted correspondence for the Consumer Council in relation to its work with Youth Action on examining young peoples' views in relation to public transport, and agreed to schedule a briefing on this issue later in the current session.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 10 November 2010
Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Trevor Lunn MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Billy Armstrong MLA

10.45am The meeting commenced in open session.

3. Matters Arising

Agreed: The Committee noted and agreed arrangements for its event, on 8 December 2010, to launch the Consumer Council / Youth Action's 'Transport matters' report on young people's experiences, attitudes and ideas for improving public transport.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 17 November 2010
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Billy Armstrong MLA

10.35am The meeting commenced in open session.

7. Any Other Business

Forward Work Programme
Launch of the Consumer Council / Youth Action Transport Matters report

Agreed: The Committee noted and agreed, subject to amendment, the invitees to the above event.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 1 December 2010
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Ian McCrea MLA

10.37am The meeting commenced in open session.

8. Any Other Business

Committee event – 8 December 2010

Members noted arrangement for the Committee event to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters" on 8 December 2010. The Committee also noted the proposed media plan and the letter of invitation to the event.

Agreed: The Committee noted and agreed a draft press release on the event for issue on 8 December 2010.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 8 December 2010
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Antoinette Bowen (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
George Robinson MLA

10.39am The meeting commenced in open session.

7. Any Other Business

Committee event – 8 December 2010

Members noted that the event to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters" on 8 December 2010 at 7.30pm in the Long Gallery, Parliament Buildings, has been postponed due to adverse weather conditions. It was agreed that the event should be rescheduled for mid-January 2011.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 15 December 2010
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
George Robinson MLA

9.35am The meeting commenced in open session.

7. Any Other Business

Committee event – 8 December 2010

Members noted that the event to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters", postponed from 8 December 2010, has been rescheduled for 12 January 2011.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 12 January 2011
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Ian McCrea MLA

10.09am The meeting commenced in open session.

9. Any Other Business

Committee event to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters"

Members noted arrangement for the Committee sponsored event on 12 January 2011 to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters".

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 19 January 2011
Room 30, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Fra McCann MLA

9.50am The meeting commenced in closed session.

6. Any Other Business

Committee stakeholder event to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters"

Members recorded their thanks to all Assembly staff for their efforts in organising the event to launch the Consumer Council / YouthAction report "Transport Matters" on 12 January 2011.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 9 February 2011
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Billy Leonard MLA
Ian McCrea MLA

10.17am The meeting commenced in open session.

8. Consideration of draft Committee report on "Transport Matters" event

Agreed: Members deferred consideration of the first draft of the Committee's report on the "Transport Matters" event, held on 12 January 2011, to the meeting of 16 February 2011.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 16 February 2011
Room 30, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Allan Bresland MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
George Robinson MLA

10.16am The meeting commenced in open session.

10. Consideration of draft Committee report on "Transport Matters" event

Agreed: For reasons of time, Members deferred consideration of the draft of the Committee's report on the "Transport Matters" event, held on 12 January 2011, to the meeting of 23 February 2011.

[EXTRACT]

Wednesday 23 February 2011
Long Gallery, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Cathal Boylan MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Ian McCrea MLA

10.12am The meeting commenced in open session.

Members noted papers which were tabled for consideration later in the meeting.

3. Matters Arising

Agreed: Members considered and agreed, subject to amendment, a report on the Committee's event to launch of the "Transport Matters" Report on Wednesday 12 January 2011. The Committee also agreed to publish the report on the Assembly website and to forward the report to the Minister for Regional Development and Translink for comment.

[Extract]

Wednesday 16 March 2011
Room 21, Parliament Buildings

Present: Fred Cobain MLA (Chairperson)
Michelle McIlveen MLA (Deputy Chairperson)
Billy Armstrong MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

In Attendance: Roisin Kelly (Assembly Clerk)
Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Andrew Larmour (Clerical Supervisor)
Alison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA

10.33am The meeting commenced in open session.

3. Matters Arising

Agreed: The Committee noted a revised version of the Committee's report on the "Transport Matters" report and ordered that the report be printed.

[EXTRACT]

Appendix 2

Minutes of Evidence

12 January 2011

Members present for all or part of the proceedings:
Mr Fred Cobain (Chairperson)
Miss Michelle McIlveen (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Cathal Boylan
Ms Anna Lo
Mr Fra McCann
Mr Conall McDevitt
Mr George Robinson

Witnesses:

Ms Antoinette McKeown		Consumer Council for Northern Ireland
Ms Kellie Armstrong		Community Transport Association
Ms Jenny Pyper		Department for Regional Development
Mr Jonny Buckley Ms Christine Crawford Mr Stephen Orme		Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel
Mr Norman Maynes		Translink
Mr Christopher Allen Mr Jerome Carleton Mr Ross Cooper Dr Anne Marie Gray Ms Ashley Holmes Ms Sinead McKenna Ms Suzanne McLean Ms Laura Marley Mr Chris Mohan Mr Rohan Muckrijee Ms Charlene Mullan Mr Philip Rafferty Ms June Trimble		YouthAction Northern Ireland

1. The Chairperson (Mr Cobain): I will start by thanking you all for coming to Parliament Buildings to participate in this interesting and worthwhile event. We are here to launch the YouthAction and Consumer Council 'Transport Matters' report. I welcome the young people from the YouthAction community leadership programme who carried out the research and produced the report, the main focus of which is on transport matters. This event provides the Committee with the extremely important opportunity to engage with young people on public transport issues. Perhaps more importantly, today gives the young people who researched and compiled the report the opportunity to engage with key stakeholders in the policymaking process, which is one of the main aims of that research. The Regional Development Committee is pleased to be able to, in a small way, assist those young people in achieving their aims.

2. We will hear from YouthAction and the Consumer Council about the report and the research on which it was based, and it is important that I do not cut across any of their presentations. However, I will give a flavour of what to expect here at Stormont this afternoon. Shortly, I will hand over to representatives of YouthAction and the Consumer Council, who will provide a brief introduction to the research behind the report. That will be followed by a drama presentation. There are a lot of actors at Stormont and the other 106 who are not here will be disappointed that they cannot play a part in the play. Some key messages from the research will be delivered by young people from YouthAction and the community leadership programme.

3. We will then take a five-minute break to allow you to refresh your cups and us to prepare the room for the plenary session. The Committee is looking forward to interfacing with young people. It will begin at 4.30 pm. [Laughter.] I say 4.30 pm as a politician: it is now 4.40 pm. However, it will begin as soon as possible. The purpose of the plenary event is to have a discussion between key transport providers and stakeholders and the young people who carried out the research.

4. You have all been provided with a copy of the report, and I hope that everyone here is prepared to engage in discussions on the report's findings and recommendations. The Committee has held a number of events such as this. We have always found those less stage-managed and more interesting, and we get more out of them. In a plenary such as this, participants tend to be more relaxed than they would be in Committee surroundings. Therefore, we are keen to receive some sort of feedback from the people engaged in this event about whether this is the sort of forum in which they would like to interface with the Committee, rather than going to a Committee meeting.

5. During the discussions, members of staff with roving microphones will be available, so that questions, comments or contributions can be made by people on the floor. The plenary session will be recorded by the Official Report, and that will be used to formulate a report to Conor Murphy, the Minister for Regional Development, with a request for a formal response to the Committee within a set period. The outputs from this event will be reflected in the Committee's end of mandate report. A departmental response can be taken in an early session of the incoming Committee in the new mandate.

6. Again, I welcome you to Parliament Buildings for the launch of the report. I will hand over to YouthAction and the Consumer Council to give you a brief overview of the report and the research behind it.

7. Ms Antoinette McKeown (Consumer Council for Northern Ireland): Thank you very much, Fred. Good afternoon everybody. I am delighted to see so many young people here, safe and well. We are delighted that the Committee for Regional Development has provided such an important platform to enable you young people to share your attitudes, views and experiences of public transport here at the heart of decision-making on these issues in Northern Ireland.

8. We are also very pleased to be working with YouthAction to harness the skill, vitality and energy that so many of you young people have displayed in contributing to the research. I know that Ryan from the Consumer Council and Caroline from YouthAction have both worked really hard to ensure that the views that are presented reflect the young people's views, and I thank Ryan and Caroline for that.

9. Every time that the Consumer Council seeks the views of young people, you give us some really strong views, with conviction and clarity. Every time that you are asked for an opinion or for plans or solutions on how we can improve things, you give us that with clarity and you give us practical, achievable and creative ideas. We thank you for that. However, it also begs the question: why do decision-makers not engage with you more often? Too often you are asked too little about the public service provision that is there for you. In designing the research, the Consumer Council is very committed to giving young people a voice in public transport because we know that you are one of the largest user groups in Northern Ireland.

10. We are equally committed to working with the Department for Regional Development and with Fred and the Committee on its implementation. Fred, I welcome your words about the Committee's commitment to taking forward the recommendations. We want to give young people a voice on public transport, and we will work hard to ensure that your voice matters and that it counts.

11. Ms June Trimble (YouthAction Northern Ireland): Chairman and Committee members, thank you for inviting the young people from YouthAction and the young people from the young farmers' clubs who have been involved in the research. At YouthAction, we believe that young people should really be at the heart of public policy discussions and decisions and that they should be contributing to political dialogue at all opportunities, so we thank you for taking the findings of their research so seriously and for inviting them today.

12. This is the first time that we have had a formal partnership with the Consumer Council, and it has been an excellent working opportunity. Ryan has been a great help to Caroline and Suzanne in putting together the piece of work and working with the young people. Young people are key consumers, so we are keen to collaborate with the Consumer Council on future opportunities.

13. The topic of public transport, particularly rural transport, is very important to the lives of young people and is of particular interest to me. I am a regular user of the number seven bus from Donaghadee to the city every day, so I have a lot to say about public transport and I would welcome the opportunity to do so at any time. Indeed, it is a family trait. My mother, who is in her 80s, is an avid user of the free bus pass, and, in one week, she could have been to Cork and Rathlin Island. The joke at home is that I will be billed by Translink because my mother has overused her free bus pass. Joking aside, the bus passes for senior citizens have revolutionised their lives, and I can see that every day.

14. It is now time for the Committee to look at young people. Public transport is so important to young people and to how they live their lives and get about. It is very important that they now have a say and that you take some action on improving public transport for them. The one point in the research that is most important to me and that I bring to your attention is in the summary at the beginning. Most of the young people who were surveyed said that, once they drove a car, they would not use public transport. That is a key message, and we must encourage young people to be good users of public transport. Therefore, I recommend that you provide free transport for young people up to the age of 18 to foster good use of public transport in the future, but that is just my personal comment.

15. My job today is to introduce our young people. They have carried out the research and written the script, and they want to present it to you in a short performance. I ask the young people from the community leadership programme and their working groups to do their performance of the findings.

On resuming —

16. The Chairperson: For the Committee, this is probably the most important part of the evening, when we get to interact with you to get a better understanding of the problems and issues that you, as young people, have raised in the report.

17. One issue in the report that struck me was that of the availability and cost of public transport for younger people and how that impacted on them and their ability to engage in social and educational activities and, more importantly for many, employment opportunities. I would like to have some discussion around that. Perhaps one of the young people involved in the report would like to kick that off and give us some indication of their thinking and some examples.

18. Ms Charlene Mullan (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I have been involved in the transport research from the start. I am from Fermanagh, which is quite a rural area, and I was working in a very rural area, Garrison. One example in the report is that young people have to go seven miles backwards to get a bus to go forwards. A big thing for young people in rural areas is that they are not able to get jobs and they think that they have to depend too much on their parents, which takes away their independence. They are not able to go to youth clubs or take part in other activities, and, if they are taking part in other activities, they rely heavily on their parents to take them to those activities, because there is no transport, especially after a certain time and on certain days. That is a huge issue, and it cannot be good for their mental health.

19. Ms Laura Marley (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I have been involved in the transport research from the beginning. I spoke to a group of young people, and most of them said that the cost of transport has gone up since they reached the age of 16 and is a bit high. They used to pay a certain amount, and, as soon as they hit 16, the cost went sky high. Young people over the age of 18 pay more. Those young people say that if the price were cut, they would probably use public transport more.

20. Mr Chris Mohan (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I am from the YouthAction theatre. The problem that I have seen is that every couple of years the price of public transport rises by 5p or 10p. That does not seem a lot at the time, but, added up, it is a lot more than what we were paying 10 years ago. It would be great to see a reduction for a change, whenever that is possible, to bring the price back to what it used to be. I also think that it would be great to have student discount on buses.

21. The Chairperson: The Committee is in support of public transport. We want to see more people using buses and trains and we want to take cars off the road. To do that, cost is a big issue, not just for young people but for people who use public transport. We are as keen as you are to see public transport become as competitive as possible, and we understand that pricing is a big issue.

22. The other big issue is that we need public transport to be available when people want it. It is no use having cheap public transport if there is only one bus every three hours. The Committee is keen to address all those issues.

23. For many years, we pressurised the Department to ensure that public transport was put back on the agenda. That issue was not on the agenda for many years, but it has been over the past couple of years, and we hope that that improvement will continue.

24. Mr Jonny Buckley (Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel): When we met to discuss transport issues, a lot of our members came to the conclusion that they were not using public transport any more, mainly because they had serious issues with bus drivers' attitudes towards young people. We came to the conclusion that the introduction of secret inspectors on buses might improve that. Such inspectors could keep tabs on bus drivers and check whether they are value for money. The youth panel thought that that would be a good way of encouraging more young people to start getting back on to public transport.

25. The Chairperson: The vast majority of bus drivers do an excellent job. However, the Committee has had one or two issues with the attitudes of people working in public transport. Bus companies have agreed to run additional customer services courses for bus drivers and people who interface with the public. Again, that is a big issue. No one wants to get on to a bus or a train and be humiliated by a driver. However, the vast majority of people involved in public transport provide an excellent service. Like all of these issues, a minority colour the rest.

26. However, bus companies are trying to deal with that by talking to, educating and training their staff. That is the best way to deal with it in the long term. We are also trying to address that. The Committee has discussed those issues; however, they are not isolated issues in the sense that they are not just about young people. Those attitudes are experienced across the board, so it is not an age thing. The companies are trying to deal with that through additional training.

27. Ms Sinead McKenna (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I do not use public transport as much as I should. A few weeks ago, we went online to check the bus timetables because we were planning to go away. We would have needed a degree to look at the website; it is wild. I am a phone addict and use apps. As Terry said in the performance, if there were an app that enabled you to enter where you are and where you wanted to go and that told you how much it was going to be and at what time it was leaving, it would be so much simpler. More young and older people are using smartphones, iPhones and even iPads. That kind of app would be helpful and might mean that they use public transport more.

28. The Chairperson: The new Transport Bill, which the Committee has just finished and published its report on, provides for a new integrated transport system that will hopefully deal with all of those issues. The Bill will hopefully be passed by the Assembly before the end of this mandate.

29. The Committee has also looked at how people with specific disabilities, such as blindness, can access that technology. After interfacing with groups and taking their information on board, we encouraged the Department to put some of that work in the Bill. You will see that the Bill encourages new technologies and makes those technologies open and accessible to every single person in Northern Ireland, to try to make public transport accessible to them.

30. As far as new technologies are concerned, I am totally illiterate. I am lucky if I can turn my phone on in the morning. However, I understand how important new technologies are to younger people, and all the bus companies should take that on board when they are producing timetables. Technology should be used as a way of getting information to young people and of getting them to use a service. We are in favour of that.

31. Mr Philip Rafferty (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I will go back to the issue of cost. I am from west Belfast, up on the Andytown road. It costs £1·70 to get into town, which I find bizarre. Through the years, the prices have gone up every so often. I am not particularly happy about that because I go into town every week, so I spend a lot more money that I should. I should be walking down to Andytown, but I got a bus once and I cost me £1 to get from one wee small area to another wee area in Andytown. I could have walked it — it would have taken about five minutes — but I decided to get the bus, and £1 for something like that is bizarre, never mind £1·70 to get into town. It is £1 to do that wee small journey: I do not understand what is happening there. [Laughter.]

32. Mr Boylan: Neither do we.

33. The Chairperson: I am sure that Translink will be glad to hear that.

34. Ms Ashley Holmes (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I am from the YouthAction NI community leadership programme. From a mother's point of view, getting on buses with a pram is a bit of a nightmare. Obviously, there are disabled facilities, but there should be more space because more than one pram might need to get on a bus.

35. Mr Ross Cooper (YouthAction Northern Ireland): My question is more to do with age.

36. The Chairperson: Is that because you looked at me? [Laughter.]

37. Mr Cooper: I was not going to say that in public. People over 16 are charged an adult fare, but, in the eyes of the law and the government and all of that, a person is not an adult until they are 25. Why and how is there that difference in age?

38. The Chairperson: Those are all detailed questions for someone from Translink, who can, hopefully, give you some sort of explanation.

39. Another big issue is availability of rural transport. Conall and I are the two townies on the Committee. For a townie from north Belfast, I am an expert.

40. Mr F McCann: I live in the rural part of west Belfast. [Laughter.]

41. The Chairperson: Rural transport is a big issue for us. It is also a big issue in respect of social inclusion for people, especially older people, in rural areas.

42. Mr Stephen Orme (Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel): I am from the Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel. When we discussed the difference between the ages of 16 and 25 and the definition of an adult, we came to the conclusion that many of the financial restrictions that a person faces at 16, they face from the ages of 16 to 25 because of A levels and the fact that they only have time for part-time work. There are also university fees to pay. There are student cards for a discount — usually 10% or 20% — in private stores, and we would support a similar scheme for public transport.

43. Mr McDevitt: I will pose a quick question on the point of cost and concession and all that sort of stuff. It is a theme of the report and quite a few of you raised it. A lot of you said that if you buy a car or start using a car, that is it: you would never go back to public transport. By way of a show of hands, who agrees that once young people get into a car, they will not go back to public transport? Who thinks that that is correct?

44. The Chairperson: You are sorry that you asked that question.

45. Mr McDevitt: That is good to know. I think that that is what we believe as a Committee, but, a lot of the time, that evidence needs to be presented. This report will help us to do that.

46. We should make you aware that our departmental budget came out today, and it is not good news for anything that we are debating today. It looks at fare increases and fewer routes because of the cutbacks that are kicking in. That you have been able to come here and produce this report is quite important. It will allow us to speak a little louder than we are normally able to speak on these issues. I suggest that you take the opportunity to contact your MLAs directly and follow up on this report because, if you do not do that, the consensus position is that once you get in the car, you forget about the bus or the train.

47. Mr Jerome Carleton (Right Here, Fermanagh): The big problem with rural transport is that young people find that they cannot get anywhere after a certain time. I do not drive and if I have to get a bus home, the last bus that I can get is at 5.45 pm. I cannot get home by public transport any time after that. Young people have the same problem: buses are not running after 6.00 pm or 6.30 pm, and we cannot get young people together into groups to do things. They rely on taxis, other young people, their friends or parents to run them places. If public transport were running, they would not have that problem of getting to groups. It is hard enough to get young people in a rural area involved in groups without having the problem of getting them to a meeting place.

48. Mr Boylan: I will pick up on that point, but I will say a few things first. I want to thank the people here for their views on this report. It is an excellent report and it is the kind of thing that helps us to contribute to any piece of legislation. The information in the report is very important. I also want to thank you for the piece of theatre. You sometimes see theatre in the Assembly Chamber, but I guarantee that you will not see theatre as good as that.

49. Only three of us have been on the Regional Development Committee since 2007; members have changed, but my main gripe has always been rural issues. The Chairperson shares that with me. I represent Newry and Armagh, and I am well aware of the limited public transport that there is in rural areas. I am delighted that you have come along and given us some ideas into that and highlighted the issue. We are well aware of it. Conall asked an interesting question about people driving cars. Naturally, young people want to get their driving license, get into a car and get about, and there is a big dependency on cars in rural areas; there is no doubt about it. That is because of the lack of public transport. There are just some community transport organisations and local sports clubs such as GAA clubs that provide transport.

50. I want to try to nail down with you how we, as a Committee, can realistically address the issue of rural transport. I want to know where the new ideas are. We mentioned the budget and there is going to be a serious look at what is available in the budget, but we are trying to get new ideas and bring things about. When I mention rural transport, viable journeys and viable trips are always talked about. You cannot realistically look at running a bus at 8.00 pm, 9.00 pm or 10.00 pm when only two people may get on it. We want to try to work in new ideas and work with you to come up with ideas on how we can address that issue. You have experienced it: you are sitting there, you cannot get out, you cannot get involved in any activities and you are limited in what you can do, even in meeting up with friends. Thank God, in the IT age, you can all text, but you need to get out, for your well-being and everything else. I want you to touch on that and try to give us some ideas. We have some ideas ourselves.

51. As the Chairperson will tell you, he did not know what rural was until I came into the Committee. When I leave the Committee in March, the focus will still be rural. We want to nail this down. We want a good public transport system. We understand the need for cars in rural areas, and that will continue until we get a proper integrated system. Perhaps someone has some ideas or would like to comment on the main issues.

52. Mr Christopher Allen (Right Here, Fermanagh): The Chairperson said that he is not too sure about applications and iPhones and all that stuff. If this kind of event were to happen again, could you have two young people sitting at the table who know what it is like to be in our shoes and know what is going on?

53. Mr Boylan: Certainly, we like to create opportunities for people to come along and we will give everyone the opportunity to have their say. We have looked at all the technology. We are not all receiving concessionary passes like these men to my left. We all have knowledge of IT systems and everything else, and we are looking at all those things. You are right: the more people that we get to present to the Committee, the better. There are opportunities through consultations and everything else. As I said, this is a wonderful report and it is a good opportunity and a good start. Long may it continue. There are a lot of groups doing different things, and putting forward ideas, as regards youth action. We are always prepared to listen. The Chairperson is getting on a wee bit, but, to be fair to him, he will give anyone the opportunity to come to the Committee.

54. Mr G Robinson: I am from a rural area as well. I am absolutely delighted to be among you here today. It has been very enlightening. One or two of you mentioned the 16 to 25 age group. Unfortunately, I am not in that age group, but we should focus on it. Ulsterbus and all the different companies that provide transport services should look at the report. A lot of young people use public transport, particularly in rural areas. As someone said, there is often no public transport after 6.00 pm. If young people do not have a car, or if their parents do not have a car or if it is away, they are stranded for the rest of the night and are unable to go out until the next morning.

55. We should lobby for, and look after, 16- to 25-year-olds as much as possible. Some people in that age group work, often for a very low wage, and some are at school. We should target those people as much as possible. We should highlight those types of issues when we meet officials from the Department for Regional Development and even take them as far as the Minister.

56. Ms Kellie Armstrong (Community Transport Association): Good evening. Many of you know my face. You asked for help and suggestions. As you know, community transport is a community-led solution to local transport needs. Everything is tight in the current economic crisis. Transport is a cross-cutting issue that affects employment, education and health. No matter what age people in Northern Ireland are, they are affected by transport. Is there any opportunity to look at some sort of cross-departmental transport plan so that we can integrate services and use the yellow education and library board buses and health buses for young people after 6.00 pm?

57. The Chairperson: A lot of issues are cross-cutting. That is not the issue. The issue is the end result. As a Committee, we are keen to do as much as possible to work with other Committees to produce solutions to problems. It is important to do that, rather than living in silos and saying that we cannot do anything because something is a health matter or whatever. As a Committee, we do not involve ourselves in that. We try to resolve issues as much as possible.

58. Community transport is a huge issue, not just for the youth but for older people, who are socially excluded and depend completely on community transport because they physically cannot get to a bus stop. There are many issues: young people need community transport for jobs and education, and older people need it for social reasons. We are a big supporter of community transport because we know how important a role it plays in the rural areas.

59. A lot of issues are cross-cutting. If Committees and Departments were more flexible in coming to solutions rather than looking after themselves and what they want to do, it would be far more beneficial for everyone. We would then actually get a solution. In the current financial straits, we will hopefully be driven to the conclusion that we need to work together, because we do not have the resources to do everything that we used to do or duplicate what we do, so we will have to focus our resources. It may be a way of bringing people to the realisation that we all need to work together. That is a simple idea, but it is very difficult to do when you need to deal with a range of different Committees.

60. Mr McDevitt: I want to pick up on the iPhone app idea and about people being more mobile and not so much PC-based. That is something that a lot of us empathise with. The idea of better integration was mentioned in the presentation and in the report. If you get off a bus in Dublin having come from out of town, you can get on a bike to reach your destination. Do you have really strong opinions about that, or was it just a good bit of theatre? Would you like to see a bike scheme in Belfast? Would it be good or right for the city? Would it be pointless? Would all the bikes be nicked?

61. Mr Boylan: I want to pick up on Kellie Armstrong's point. She hit the nail on the head. The Committee can make recommendations through the Transport Bill. There needs to be a collective and cross-departmental approach. Everyone I have talked to about rural transport has been realistic about what we can achieve, but we can work in a cross-departmental fashion to facilitate some of your suggestions, at least. That is why I asked whether there were any other suggestions about that issue. That is the way for us to go. The Committee will support that.

62. Mr G Robinson: I agree with Kellie as well. She and I know about the rural transport situation in our area. The rural transport providers do a tremendous job, not only for young people, but for elderly people and people with disabilities. That is one of the areas that we should be looking at and working on together.

63. Mr F McCann: I live in inner-city Belfast and it takes me two or three minutes to walk into the city centre to all the amenities. Sometimes you can lose the sense of how important public transport is to people. I only recently became a member of the Committee for Regional Development, but since I joined, my colleagues, especially those who live in rural areas, have made me aware of the importance of rural transport to people who live in those areas.

64. As Conall mentioned, we heard a presentation on the budget this morning, part of which was concerned with community transport. The point was made that a £10,000 cut in community transport routes in rural areas could represent a devastating blow to community transport infrastructure. That all needs to be taken into consideration. Where I live, I mostly use black taxis to get about, and I also get on buses. Since I have been on the Committee I have learned that the issue is about making transport more accessible, better and cheaper for people to use. It is not just about the convenience of getting from A to B, but about dealing with the serious amount of traffic that we have on our roads.

65. In our meeting this morning we heard that the education and library board fleet in Fermanagh is bigger than the Ulsterbus fleet there. That is crazy. It is like the argument about schools that close at 4.30 pm. All facilities should be brought together. We need to pull those threads together to ensure that those facilities are widely used. That makes for a cheaper and better approach, especially for people who live in rural areas.

66. The Chairperson: I know that a lot of people want to speak. We could take three or four contributions. There are people here from Translink and it is important that they address some of the questions that were asked.

67. Ms Suzanne McLean (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I want to emphasise the point that we are making about an integrated approach. That is in our recommendations and is one of the things that kept coming up in rural communities. We have talked about it a lot. It is really important that we start to think about that and work in a cross-departmental way.

68. I know that I am repeating myself and saying what has already been said, but it is important, because apparently research shows that if you hear something seven times, it goes into your brain and sticks there. [Laughter] So, hopefully, if we keep saying and saying and saying it, it will get it into people's brains, and we will start to do something about it. It is really important that we start to think about how we can make this work. With those education and library board buses sitting there not being used, and that fleet being bigger, we need to be integrating services. That is really important, and I want to emphasise that again.

69. Ms Christine Crawford (Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel): I am from Armagh, which is quite rural. I know that it is unrealistic to say that we should have footpaths where everybody lives in rural areas because it is a safety issue. However, I got the bus to school and home from school every day, and I had to walk home on nights such as this. I live quite a bit away from the bus stop, and even just reflective clothing would be a good safety idea for those using public transport in rural areas.

70. Mr Rohan Muckrijee (Right Here, Fermanagh): I went to Magee College in Derry. Back then, three years ago, I could not get a direct bus from Enniskillen to Derry. I had to get a bus from Enniskillen to Omagh and wait for a link bus from Omagh to Derry. A few times I missed the bus or the bus was late. As a result, I pretty much had to hold back the whole journey, and call for a taxi or lift. That was very inconvenient. I do not know whether the situation has changed, but we have a bus every hour from Enniskillen to Belfast. That is a fantastic service, but why do we not have a bus directly from Enniskillen to Derry?

71. Dr Anne Marie Gray (YouthAction Northern Ireland): I represent the board of YouthAction Northern Ireland. We are acutely aware of how the lack of access to public transport impacts on young people in a whole range of areas. Suzanne and others spoke of the importance of an integrated strategy, but having looked briefly at the budget proposals document from the Department this morning, we are really concerned that the issue of young people and transport could very easily be lost as more publicly identifiable priorities come to the fore.

72. It is really important for the Department to think about the strategies already in place: the anti-poverty strategy, the children and young persons' strategy, and the hopefully forthcoming strategy on young people not in education, employment or training. Unless there is an improved public transport strategy for young people, a whole range of measures in those other strategies will not be achieved. We find that problem all the time, when young people tell us about the impact that it has on their ability to access training programmes, to go to college or university, or to access social events. It also has an impact on their social inclusion and mental health.

73. Ms Jenny Pyper (Department for Regional Development): I am involved in work on a new regional transportation strategy for Northern Ireland. The timing of this event is excellent, and I congratulate everyone involved in the report and today's presentation. I have been involved in a lot of consultation events and have never been at one that was so clear, compelling and so much fun. There are a lot of lessons for us from the way that the report has been fed back and in the detail of it.

74. As I said, we are working on a new regional transportation strategy, so this event is well timed to inform that strategy. I want to mention a couple of things that we are taking account of in the new strategy. Almost everyone has mentioned the integrated approach, and some really good points were made about making better use of the infrastructure that we have. With the budgetary constraints, we will not be able to buy or build our way out of a lot of the transport problems that exist, and the Department recognises that. However, we could definitely make much better use of the infrastructure and services that we have. A key theme in the new strategy will be around sustainability and increasing the use of public transport and means of active travel to find ways of integrating active travel, such as cycling, with public transport. That theme has come through strongly today, and we are definitely with you on that.

75. We are acutely conscious of the difference between rural and urban issues, and I am keen to have more dialogue with young people, particularly on rural issues, because, in many ways, they are quite different from a lot of the urban issues. That is recognised, and we will have a specific section in our strategy looking at rural transport issues.

76. It was great to hear all the references to and illustrations of the power of technology. That is really compelling. I have two kids who use the bus all the time for school and for getting out and about, but they are not at the age where they are out later in the evening. As a parent, the one thing that I want to know about is when the bus is coming and when they will be home. I am constantly asking them to text me to let me know where they are. I do not think that it is a leap of faith to get the bus information in a timely way. I have seen the smartphone apps that developers have created off their own bat, based on information that is publicly available, similar to the Roads Service road cameras, through which apps have been developed that help people to plan their journeys on the roads. We need to see that extended out to the public transport network, and that will definitely feature in the new strategy. The Chairman referred to the Transport Bill and the importance of it, and we are definitely with you on that as well.

77. I will not go into any more detail. I reiterate how useful the research is, and, when we move to public consultation on the new regional transportation strategy, which I hope will be in March, I will be keen to follow up with YouthAction and have more dialogue specifically as part of the wider consultation on the strategy. I can see already a good synergy with a lot of what you have said, and there is a lot of food for thought on the issues that we have not yet taken account of.

78. Mr Norman Maynes (Translink): I add my congratulations to YouthAction and to the Consumer Council for undertaking the research and putting it so succinctly into the 'Transport Matters' publication. I thank the young folk who participated in the drama, which I thought was absolutely excellent and brought out all of the important issues.

79. You talked about fares, and, if you are using a Metro or Ulsterbus bus service, I strongly encourage you to get a Smartlink card. A Smartlink card offers a saving of around 35% on a cash fare. Instead of spending £1·70 on a Metro or Ulsterbus fare, you can get it for £1·10 with a Smartlink card. All the customer has to do is add five journeys on the Smartlink, which will have a life of 12 months, so you have to use only five journeys in 12 months. You can top up a Smartlink card at any PayPoint agent in Northern Ireland, and we have an additional 85 agents in Belfast. You can buy your first Smartlink on our website, so it is fairly easy to get your hands on one. We promote that on a lot of our buses, and we really want to push people to that cashless way of travel. There are huge incentives with it.

80. You talked about the cost of travel for people over the age of 16. Unfortunately, we do not receive any concession fare recovery for travel for people over that age, but we are conscious of the higher fare that applies at that age. Tomorrow, we have our third meeting on looking at the possibility of introducing a youth ticket. We would like to introduce that through smart card technology. The person's photograph would be on it, so it would be personalised, and we are trying to think of a fully integrated product with Northern Ireland Railways, Ulsterbus and Metro. That card would cover someone until their twenty-third birthday, whether they are a student or not. However, we have a long way to go on the technology. The business case will not be in by this September, but we are fairly hopeful of getting an innovative product next year.

81. Another ticketing innovation is mobile phone ticketing, which, all being well, is something that we would like, and plan, to introduce for railways in April this year. We hope that people will be able to buy weekly and monthly tickets on their phones and, for the first time ever on railways, three-day tickets. Those three days would have to be used within a seven-day period, not three consecutive days. We believe that that would suit people who are making the occasional journey during the week on railways. If that proves successful, we would like to roll out the use of mobile phone technology.

82. In the past year, there has been a big growth in Europe in what we call m-technology, particularly in the airline business. The other growth area for that technology is nightclubs around Europe, as it makes it a lot quicker for people to get in. We are moving ahead on that and we would like to introduce that within three months. However, please use Smartlink; there are big savings there for you.

83. Customer care is extremely important for us. We place a lot of emphasis on customer care and put our drivers and conductors through rigorous courses. However, as Fred Cobain said, we do get it wrong on the odd occasion. We carry 78 million passenger journeys every year. That is equivalent to carrying the entire population of Northern Ireland every week on our buses and trains. Every passenger's ticket has a number that can identify the driver and the service. If someone has a complaint, they can write in and provide the ticket number, the date and the time of travel. That is all that we need to identify who was involved, and we can quickly sort out any issues. We encourage you to contact us.

84. We also very much believe in liaising with young folk. At the end of 2009, we created the Translink Youth Forum, of which we have had five meetings to date. Members are aged between 12 and 22, and around 30 people normally turn up at each meeting. The forum has been great for us. It has created its own logo and sweatshirts, and places an article in every edition of our in-house magazine, 'Expresslines'. If any of you want to join that forum, please contact us and we will accommodate you. For anyone beyond the age of 22, we hold 30 passenger group meetings a year, in various locations, covering bus and rail travel, and we are always looking for more members.

85. I am happy to address any other issues. Thank you.

86. Mr Boylan: I welcome those last comments, especially those from the Department. You have to realise that it is fine for people who can access that transport and have the option of integrated tickets. However, if you look at where the rail network is in the region, you will see that there are vast swathes of the North where it is not accessible. I am glad that Jenny was here to talk about the regional strategy. That is what the Department needs to focus on now, because we need to address that.

87. I welcome the comments from Translink, but, coming from a rural area, I know what is available and what is accessible. That is what we are trying to address. It is OK for people who live in certain areas and can access transport, and that service is integrated. That is a natural process that we should be looking at, but we also want to address the other issues. Now is your opportunity to do that, with the strategy that is being developed. That is what we want to see.

88. The Chairperson: I thank the individuals who made this event possible. I speak for all Committee members when I say that, for us, the event has been highly interesting, stimulating and productive. Hopefully, we have taken on board a lot of the suggestions that have been made. We are now more aware of the issues around young people and transport.

89. I pay particular thanks to those who produced what is a very interesting report. I thank everyone who participated in this event for their time and effort. One reason that the Committee sponsored the event was to provide young people with the opportunity to speak to and interface with the Committee. I hope that that has been of some use to you.

90. The next step is the publication of the plenary discussion, as recorded by the Official Report. Everyone who participated in the discussion will receive a draft transcript from Hansard.

91. Finally, I thank the Assembly external liaison unit for all its hard work and for staying behind this evening to help us. I thank the Assembly broadcasting team for providing a recording service, and I thank the catering and support staff for their help and for the tea and sandwiches this afternoon.

92. Thank you very much for coming. I hope that you all have a safe journey home.

Appendix 3

Written Submissions

Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel

Sustainable Transport 12 January 2011

Briefing Notes
Introduction

The Youth Panel discussed their experiences of using public transport and considered a number if ideas for improving existing provision. The following points were agreed:

1. Discounts should be offered to young people up to the age of 25 but not to those in employment.

2. The promotion of offers should be clearer and should:

a. Include adverts on buses and at bus stops;

b. Make use of Facebook;

c. Be done in person and involve the distribution of leaflets at schools, colleges and universities especially at fresher's events.

d. Not utilise Bluetooth as most young people will either keep Bluetooth turned off to preserve battery life or are unlikely to trust incoming messages via Bluetooth

3. The provision of WIFI on public transport is a nice idea but it is not a necessity.

4. There was very strong agreement that:

a. Public transport providers need to pay more attention to quality of service, in particular:

i. Bus drivers should have a more positive attitude to young people and need to be more fair, consistent, considerate, polite and respectful;

ii. Bus drivers should pay more attention to health and safety issues;

b. To deliver these suggested quality of service improvements there should be:

i. More customer service training especially for bus drivers;

ii. A well publicised complaints phonelineTrainingAction needs to be taken –

iii. Secret inspectors – young people to monitor and report on standards of service provided to young people.

5. Safety is an issue especially in rural areas. Steps to address these issues should include:

a. Promotion of the use of reflective material on jackets;

b. Schools should require that uniforms have reflective material;

6. Vandalism of bus shelters is a deterrent and needs to be addressed.

7. Distance from bus stop is a problem in rural areas, more bus stops are needed. Perhaps there should be a right to a bus stop within 2-3 miles. Footpaths are needed to make it safer to reach bus stops.

8. Cycle hire similar to the scheme adopted by Transport for London would be good in cities and towns but probably not in rural areas.

9. Bike stands at bus stops should be considered although dark and dangerous conditions would discourage use.

10. There should be more frequent services.

Appendix 4

About the
"Transport Matters" Report

About the 'Transport Matters' Report

1. The aims of the research were to:

• Identify young people's attitudes, views and experiences of using public transport; and
• Ensure the needs of young people are considered in the development of public transport policy and provision.

2. This research was carried out through YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme by young people in Greater Belfast, Derry/Londonderry and Fermanagh, with support provided to these young people by the Consumer Council and YouthAction.

3. The involvement of young people was central to this research. Using peer research, 38 young people used questionnaires and focus groups, as well as meetings with key transport providers, to identify young people's attitudes, views and experiences of using public transport. Young Farmers Clubs were also involved in the research to allow for further input from young people in other rural areas. In total 189 questionnaires and 12 focus groups involving over 70 young people were completed.

4. The report makes 10 recommendations as set out below.

• Develop an integrated approach from all sectors providing transport including Translink, community transport, education and health transport and taxis to ensure services meet the needs of young people in rural areas.
• The Department for Regional Development (DRD) should implement a policy that ensures everyone is within a reasonable distance (no more than 2 miles) of a bus stop.
• DRD Roads Service should improve footpaths, lighting and signs at rural bus stops to allow young people to access services safely and encourage more use of public transport.
• DRD should consider a concessionary pass which offers discounted fares for those aged up to 25 (as is offered in other countries) to encourage greater use of public transport.
• Translink should increase the promotion of discounted fares and concessions available to young people. This should include more use of social media, Smartphone apps and targeted advertising and promotions in places where young people meet, such as colleges.
• Translink should continue to explore options for enhancing their buses and trains with the provision of wi-fi for longer journeys.
• Translink should continue to provide regular and appropriate customer service training to all drivers to ensure a high quality service to young people.
• Translink should work with DRD to ensure other forms of transport such as cycling can integrate with public transport. This could involve more facilities to safely park bicycles in rural areas; and
• Bicycle hire schemes in urban areas which are located at public transport stations.
• Ensure that young people continue to be engaged in how public transport is designed and delivered across Northern Ireland.

Appendix 5

List of Invited Attendees at the Launch of the
"Transport Matters" Report

List of Invited Attendees at the Launch of the "Transport Matters" Report

Name Organisation

• Karen Barkley Arts Council of Northern Ireland
• Richard hill Consumer Council
• Antoinette McKeown Consumer Council
• Kellie Armstrong CTA
• David Gould David Gould Associates
• Oliver McKearney Department for Education
• Sally Visick Design Matters
• Ciaran de Burca DRD
• Jenny Pyper DRD
• Tom Reid DRD
• Naomi Roberts Equality Commission for NI
• Michael Lorimer IMTAC
• Maureen Bennett Inspection Service Branch
• Jonathan Traynor NICCY
• Fergal O'Donnell Rural Community Action
• Steven Patterson Sustrans
• Norman Maynes Translink
• Philip O'Neill Translink
• Stephen Savage West Belfast Taxi Association
• Ruth Blackburn Young farmers Club
• Martyn Blair Young farmers Club
• Joe Hawkins Young farmers Club
• Sarah McLaughlin YouthAction NI
• Caroline Redpath YouthAction NI
• Shirley Hare YouthAction NI
• John Barnett
• Chris Mohan YouthAction NI
• Philip Rafferty YouthAction NI
• Ashley Holmes YouthAction NI
• Stephen Orme Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel
• Jonny Buckley Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel
• Christine Crawford Northern Ireland Assembly Youth Panel

The event was also attended by 59 young people: 8 from Right Here Fermanagh, 38 from YouthAction NI, 2 from Garrison Youth Forum and 11 from Wave Trauma Centre.

Appendix 6

Press Release

Wednesday 12 January 2011 RD 03/10/11

Young people tell Assembly Committee
'Transport Matters'

The Northern Ireland Assembly Committee for Regional Development is to host a special event [1] this evening to hear the views of young people on using public transport. Working with The Consumer Council and YouthAction NI, young people from YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme conducted research among their peers. The resulting report 'Transport Matters'[2] and findings will be presented by the young people to members of the Committee and invited stakeholders.

Speaking before the event Committee Chair Fred Cobain, MLA said: "When the Committee heard about the research and how it was designed and carried out by young people, for young people, we were very keen to hear the outcomes. It is fantastic to see young people interested in shaping public policy, and in finding ways to improve services.

"We wanted to host this event to give people involved in the research the opportunity to speak directly to the Committee and to key stakeholders about their views and ideas on public transport. What we hear this evening will be very useful in our work on sustainable transport. The Committee will publish a report of the event and will wait with interest to see how the Department for Regional Development and transport providers respond to the recommendations in the report."

Charlene Mullan from YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme added: "When the Consumer Council approached us to suggest we carry out our own research on our experiences and views of public transport we were really keen, especially as there was an opportunity to present our views to politicians. For those of us who live in rural areas, public transport can be our only way of travelling to training and work or social activities. In many areas the transport on offer stops running too early or it is too far to the bus stop. This can limit young people's potential and their overall quality of life. This report includes our recommendations on how public transport can meet the needs of younger people."

A group of young people from YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme[3] will be present the findings and recommendations of the report which will be followed by a drama performance of the key messages from the report.

Ends

Notes for Editors:

1. A copy of the research report "Transport Matters: Young people's experiences, attitudes and idea for improving public transport" can be accessed at

http://www.consumercouncil.org.uk/filestore/documents/transportmatters.pdf

A total of 38 young people in the YouthAction Community Leadership Programme, aged 18-25, developed and completed questionnaires which they in turn completed with local youth groups as part of their work placements. In total 189 young people completed the questionnaires. The Consumer Council and YouthAction provided support to the young people who designed and carried out the research.

2. The event will take place in The Long Gallery, Parliament Buildings and will include an overview of findings by young people, and a drama presentation of the key messages from the research. This will be followed by a discussion on the findings between young people and key stakeholders.

3. For more information on YouthAction NI Community Leadership Programme visit www.youthaction.org

Membership of the Regional Development Committee is as follows:

Chairperson: Mr Fred Cobain MLA

Deputy Chairperson: Ms Michelle McIlveen MLA

Committee Members: Billy Armstrong MLA
Allan Bresland MLA
Cathal Boylan MLA
Billy Leonard MLA
Anna Lo MLA
Fra McCann MLA
Ian McCrea MLA
Conall McDevitt MLA
George Robinson MLA

Media enquiries:

Media opportunities are available to film or photograph the drama and to interview Members of the Committee for Regional Development and Charlene Mullan of YouthAction's Community Leadership Programme. To arrange please contact a member of the Communications team:

Jennifer Pleavin
Communications Officer
Northern Ireland Assembly

Phone: 028 9052 1606
Mobile: 07502 379339
Email: jennifer.pleavin@niassembly.gov.uk

Sinead Murphy
Deputy Communications Officer
Northern Ireland Assembly

Phone: 028 9052 5938
Mobile : 07899 864368
Email: sinead.murphy@niassembly.gov.uk