Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for her statement and the details about the conference. Does the Council recognise the considerable achievements of co-operation and working together (CAWT) with the GP out-of-hours services and its overall work on cross-border initiatives? In terms of the interlinking of hospital services, it is important that the review takes into account not just Cavan and Monaghan, but other counties in Ireland. Under the new proposals, which county in Ireland, other than Tyrone, will not have babies born in it? Will the Minister consider those matters?

Given the range of different maternity services that are being proposed, I do not know if it is possible to say that, in future, there will be any counties in which no babies are born. Notwithstanding that, my overall responsibility is to ensure that the best possible services are delivered to the population of a given area. Thus, my proposals offer the best possible configuration of services for the people of Fermanagh and Tyrone and for the entire population.

The Council received a report from CAWT and welcomes its work. A feasibility study commissioned by CAWT on the GP out-of-hours services has been undertaken by the University of Ulster and the National University of Ireland, Galway. The study found that approximately 70,000 people, North and South, are closer to out-of-hours services across the border. Furthermore, up to 70% of that population live in areas that can be classed as socially deprived. A number of detailed legislative, financial and practical issues have been addressed in the feasibility study, and the CAWT management board is considering a proposal to provide further support under INTERREG III for two pilot projects to test the concept of establishing cross-border arrangements to allow people easier access to GP out-of-hours services wherever they live.

I also welcome the Minister's statement. One of the issues that concerns me is organ transplantation. Will those services be expanded in Northern Ireland?

We are examining that area closely. Not only does working together in this way make sense, it also allows us to do things that would otherwise not be possible. I have great hopes for that area.

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Family Law (Divorce etc) Bill: First Stage

I beg leave to lay before the Assembly a Bill [NIA 1/02] to make provision for certain general principles in the exercise of functions under the Matrimonial Causes (Northern Ireland) Order 1978; to amend Article 3 of that Order and Article 3 of the Domestic Proceedings (Northern Ireland) Order 1980; to provide for mediation in proceedings under those Orders; and to make provision for the equal treatment of husband and wife in certain cases.

The Bill will be put on the list of pending business until a date for its Second Stage has been determined.

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Areas of Special Scientific Interest Bill: First Stage

The Minister of the Environment (Mr Nesbitt):

I beg leave to lay before the Assembly a Bill [NIA 2/02] to make new provision with respect to areas of special scientific interest.

The Bill will be put on the list of pending business until a date for its Second Stage has been determined.

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Social Security Bill: First Stage

The Minister for Social Development (Mr Dodds):

I beg leave to lay before the Assembly a Bill [NIA 3/02] to amend the law relating to statutory maternity pay; to amend the law relating to maternity allowance; to make provision for work-focused interviews for partners of benefit claimants; to make provision about the use of information for, or relating to, employment and training; to amend the Deregulation and Contracting Out (Northern Ireland) Order 1996; and for connected purposes.

The Bill will be put on the list of pending business until a date for its Second Stage has been determined.

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Health and Personal Social Services Bill: Final Stage

The Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety (Ms de Brún):

Molaim go ritear an Bille Sláinte agus Seirbhísí Sóisialta agus Pearsanta anois.

I beg to move

The Chairperson of the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety (Dr Hendron): The Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety supports this important Bill and is pleased that it has reached its Final Stage. I have nothing to add to what I said at earlier stages.

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Social Security Bill: Accelerated Passage

The Minister for Social Development (Mr Dodds):

I beg to move

The Bill is an important piece of legislation, as it makes provisions for Northern Ireland that correspond to the social security provisions that are contained in the Employment Act 2002. The Bill also amends article 17 of the Deregulation and Contracting Out (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 to ensure proper control by the Assembly of Orders that are made under that article.

There is a long-standing principle of parity between Great Britain and Northern Ireland in the fields of social security, pensions and child support. Given that people in Northern Ireland pay the same rate of income tax and National Insurance contributions as those in Great Britain, they are entitled to expect changes in the legislation in Great Britain to apply in Northern Ireland with minimal delay.

The Employment Act 2002 received Royal Assent on 8 July, and the Department for Work and Pensions is introducing several of its substantive provisions, especially those relating to the use of information and to maternity pay, as a matter of urgency.

In addition, clause 7 of the Bill seeks to amend article 17 of the Deregulation and Contracting Out (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 to allow for Assembly control of a proposed carers Order to deal with the deregulation of carers' allowance.

The carers Order will allow carers aged 65 and over to claim invalid care allowance for the first time; it will extend entitlement to invalid care allowance for up to eight weeks after the death of a disabled person; and, to make it clearer that the benefit is for carers and their needs, it will change the name of the benefit to "carers' allowance" from April 2003.

The removal of the upper age limit for claims to invalid care allowance means that carers aged 65 and over without a retirement pension, or with a reduced rate of retirement pension, will be able to receive the benefit, thus increasing their income by up to £42·45 per week. It will also give carers who receive the minimum income guarantee access to the carer premium, which is £24·80 per week.

The provision for carers aged 65 and over to claim for the first time and the extension of entitlement for up to eight weeks after the death of a disabled person are scheduled to come into operation across the country on 28 October 2002. It is, therefore, vital that the Bill be granted accelerated passage so that carers aged 65 and over can enjoy the benefits of invalid care allowance from the same date as their counterparts elsewhere in the country. To do otherwise would be to disadvantage our carers aged 65 and over.

Although the statutory maternity pay changes are not due to come into operation until 6 April 2003, the changes to the period of notice to be given to an employer and the safeguarding of statutory maternity pay from the fifteenth week before the expected week of confinement will apply to women with an expected date of confinement of 6 April or later. For that reason, clause 3 of the Bill must be introduced early to allow regulations coming into operation in November 2002 to be made.

I am, therefore, asking that the Bill proceed under the accelerated passage procedure outlined in Standing Order 40(4) so that we can bring Northern Ireland law on such matters into line with that in Great Britain with the minimum of delay. The use of the accelerated passage procedure means that there will not be a formal Committee Stage. However, I met the Committee for Social Development recently to discuss the provisions of the Bill, including the reasons for seeking accelerated passage. There will be opportunities for Members to make their views known during the Second Stage, Consideration Stage and Further Consideration Stage.

The Minister notified the Committee of his intention to seek accelerated passage at the beginning of August, and he agreed to attend a specially convened meeting on 29 August to explain the reasons behind that request. At that meeting, the Minister said that the Bill is a parity measure because it replicates social security provisions contained in the Employment Act 2002 - legislation that has been enacted in Westminster. The Minister also said that he felt it necessary to make minor amendments to the Deregulation and Contracting Out (Northern Ireland) Order 1996.

We listened carefully to what the Minister said. The Committee welcomed the Minister's assurances that the provisions in this Bill are beneficial. We are satisfied that that is the case. The Committee also accepted the Minister's contention that it is important to ensure that people in Northern Ireland benefit from these changes at the same time as they are introduced in Great Britain.

In the light of the Minister's assurances, the Committee agreed not to object to his request that the Bill be granted accelerated passage.

As the Chairperson and the Minister have said, the legislation is important. The Committee supports the use of accelerated passage because, on examining the Bill, it is clear that recipients would be disadvantaged by delay.

However, as you are aware, Mr Deputy Speaker, there is always concern about the use of accelerated passage. At the Committee meeting that the Chairperson has just mentioned, I suggested to the Minister that he bring early notification of any changes to Statutory Rules to the Committee for scrutiny, and the Minister was agreeable to that idea. Clearly, his Department will be in touch with its counterpart in Westminster about the legislative process. If some early correspondence could be given to us - not necessarily for this Bill, but for other procedures -the Committee could have an opportunity to scrutinise Bills at an earlier stage.

I too was concerned when I heard that accelerated passage was being proposed for this Bill, but having heard the Minister I understand the reason for it, which is that no one should lose out as a result of late payments.

I am heartened by Mr ONeill's comments that the Committee will be able to scrutinise Statutory Rules as they proceed. I am not a member of the Committee for Social Development, but I made it my business to ask a member about the range of benefits that the Bill covers. The Minister mentioned the carers' allowance. We took that legislation through the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety.

I heard the Minister say that this will be a devolved matter, and, therefore, I assume that the Minister will produce the rules and regulations himself. Simply put, will parity have the same effect as it does for many other benefits? In other words, will they be paid at the same rates, or will there be discretion in Northern Ireland for variation in the carers' allowance?

I am grateful to the Chairperson of the Committee and to Mr ONeill for their remarks. I was grateful for the opportunity to explain to the Committee why the Department was seeking accelerated passage for this Bill. I would prefer to avoid that process where possible, but we must treat each of these parity measures on their merits, and we will have to return to the issue. The underlying principle must be that because people in Northern Ireland pay the same rates of tax, National Insurance and pension contributions as their counterparts elsewhere in the country, they are entitled to the same rates of benefits at the same time and on the same conditions.

Therefore, I am grateful that there will be no objection to accelerated passage in this case, but at the Second Stage and further stages there will be an opportunity to go into more detail on the substance of the Bill.

In answer to Ms McWilliams, clause 7 has been inserted in the Bill to give the Assembly control over the carers' Order. Social security is ultimately a devolved matter, although under the terms of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, there is for the first time a statutory provision that requires the Minister for Social Development and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions to agree to implement a single system of social security and to implement parity.

The Northern Ireland Assembly can alter the rates of various benefits. However, whether those benefits are demand-led or paid directly by Treasury, the necessary extra money would have to be found from the Northern Ireland block. In Northern Ireland, the complex social security systems are so intimately tied in with the system throughout the rest of the UK that we would have to fund the costs of separating the computer systems in order to deliver that sort of benefit change. The cost would be severe, and the underlying principle of parity between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, which has been to our advantage over the years, would be breached.

I ask Members to support the granting of accelerated passage to the Social Security Bill.

I remind Members that the motion requires cross-community support.

The Bill will receive its Second Stage on 10 September 2002.

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Speaker's Business

Mr Deputy Speaker:

In the course of the debate on the Final Stage of the Health and Personal Social Services Bill, I neglected to call Mr McCarthy to speak: I did not spot his name on the list of Members wishing to speak. I apologise to the House and to Mr McCarthy for that omission.

I accept your apology, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was disappointed that I did not get the opportunity to speak. As Members will recall, I introduced a number of important amendments to the Bill in June relating to free personal care.

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Strategic Planning Bill:
Committee Stage (Period Extension)

The Chairperson of the Committee for Regional Development (Mr A Maginness):

I beg to move

The Strategic Planning Bill received its Second Stage on 25 June and was referred to the Committee for Regional Development on 26 June. Although the Bill is primarily technical in nature, it is, nevertheless, an important piece of legislation.

The Committee is, therefore, anxious to ensure that it carries out its responsibilities and conducts a rigorous scrutiny of the Bill. To that end, the Committee wishes to call several witnesses, and it is important that sufficient time be allocated to allow the Committee to consider the evidence. Other Committee work pressures are building up, which will add to difficulties in considering the Bill within the limit of the prescribed 30 days. Therefore, on behalf of the Committee, I seek an extension to 25 November 2002 to allow sufficient time for the Committee to consider the Bill and report its findings. I ask Members for their support.

Ad Hoc Committee on Draft Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2002

Resolved:

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Oral Answers to Questions

First minister and Deputy First Minister

I wish to inform Members that question 10 in the name of Mrs Courtney has been withdrawn and will receive a written answer.

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1.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to make a statement on the Executive response to the World Summit on Sustainable Development.

(AQO 31/02)

12.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to give details of the First Minister's recent visit to South Africa; and to make a statement.

(AQO 17/02)

I went to South Africa to represent Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom delegation at the World Summit on Sustainable Development. The Deputy First Minister had intended to attend also but, sadly, was unable to do so because of his mother's terminal illness. I am sure that the Assembly will join me in extending to him sincere sympathies on her death.

The summit drew up an important international programme for sustainable development. It agreed on actions for, among other things, sanitation; water supplies; the conservation of fish stocks and other natural resources; and the further development of renewable energy. The Executive had begun to tackle those and related issues before the summit. As Members know, sustainable development is a key cross-cutting theme that underpins the work and priorities set out in the Programme for Government. In the coming months, the Executive will consider the summit's implications for us. We shall combine those findings with the outcome of our consultations on the Northern Ireland sustainable development strategy. The Executive have also recently published the Northern Ireland biodiversity strategy.

While I was at the summit, I took the opportunity to develop a sustainable homes project at a township called Ivory Park, near Johannesburg. I also looked at three community development projects near Cape Town. I met the Premier of the Western Cape Province and several of his ministerial colleagues to discuss those and related matters. I also met the Canadian Prime Minister, the Israeli Foreign Minister, the Vice-President of Colombia and a senior representative of the Movement for Democratic Change in Zimbabwe. I also met Cyril Ramaphosa, members of the South African Human Rights Commission and several other interesting personalities.

On behalf of my party, I offer my sympathy to the Deputy First Minister Mark Durkan on the sad loss of his mother last week.

I hope that the First Minister's trip to South Africa was inspirational and that, after meeting so many important people, he has brought home fresh ideas. Does he intend to introduce a statutory duty for sustainable development along the lines of that introduced for the National Assembly for Wales in the Government of Wales Act 1998? If not, what plans does he have? Does he envisage committing this Assembly to the principles of sustainable development by putting it at the heart of our decisions, programmes, policies and ways of working?

I am sorry to say that I am not familiar with the Welsh legislation, but we shall consider it and the Member's proposal.

We shall also consider the implications of the UN summit. We face challenges in several areas, particularly with regard to renewable energy. The agreements reached in Johannesburg on water and related matters are very important for the Third World. They put in place standards that do not exceed those that apply to us under European Directives. As the Member knows, we have much work to do to ensure that the water supply and water services in Northern Ireland meet the standards set by the European Directives, which are higher than the UN-sponsored standards set in Johannesburg. We shall consider the ongoing strategies and responses to consultation papers to establish whether we should take more general action in response to need.

Can the First Minister comment on development being the main means by which poverty will be tackled in developing countries?

I was particularly struck by the position in some of the townships around Johannesburg and Cape Town. Of course, while one wants development to be sustainable, the key need in the Third World is for actual development. To achieve effective development, there must be a clear opportunity for people to participate in the economy and, indeed, a stable legal order for that to happen. We are conscious of huge opportunities in development. Although we have no direct responsibility for that and it is not something that we can directly assist, Members will want to see the ideas from the UN summit being carried forward.

Bearing in mind that the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister has no direct responsibility in such matters, was this the best use of your Department's resources - especially when there is such public concern about the number of people it takes to run your Department and the cost involved?

The Member misses the point. We were invited to join the UK delegation, along with representatives from the devolved Administrations in Wales and Scotland, simply because whatever came out of the Johannesburg summit would have to be implemented by those responsible for economic and environmental matters. In so far as that would affect England, the UK Government would be responsible: for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland the devolved Administrations would be responsible.

The UK Government took the view that it was important to include the devolved Administrations as a way of demonstrating their commitment to implement whatever comes from the summit. Regarding economic and environmental matters, being at the summit gave us the opportunity to indicate our commitment to see that standards set out in the UN summit, and, indeed, European Directives, are achieved. That is important, and attending the summit was very valuable for this Administration.

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2.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to make a statement on action being taken by the Executive to counter sectarianism.

(AQO 30/02)

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8.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to make a statement on the recent interface violence within Northern Ireland.

(AQO 13/02)

The Deputy First Minister (Mr Durkan): With permission, I will take questions 2 and 8 together. We deplore interface violence and all manifestations of sectarianism. Such antisocial behaviour is harmful not only to the well-being of local communities but to Northern Ireland as a whole. It destroys the local environment; ruins businesses and employment prospects; drives away new investment; and presents an unattractive picture to the world. We must all support the police in any good efforts to maintain law and order as well as stepping up our own efforts to deal with the underlying causes of sectarianism.

The Executive have committed themselves, in the Programme for Government, to putting a cross-departmental strategy and framework in place for promoting community relations and to ensure that there is an effective and co-ordinated approach to sectarian intimidation. A consultation paper is at an advanced stage of drafting, and it is anticipated that it will be submitted to the Executive for consideration in the near future. Following Executive approval, the consultation paper will be published. Respondents will have two months to communicate their views.

We intend to ensure that consultation is as broad as possible. For that reason we intend to convene meetings of political parties and social partners, including the churches and community organisations. The specific actions that should be taken to improve community relations will be discussed at those meetings.

The Executive stand ready to support any local initiative aimed at assisting local communities to resolve their differences peacefully. Our office has provided support through the Community Relations Council for a considerable number of groups and projects aimed at improving community relations.

I thank the Minister for his reply: unfortunately, coming when it does, it is not terribly credible. On 11 December 2001 I was told that a consultative document on community relations would be issued to interested bodies in April 2002. In April I was told it was imminent. I have just been told, yet again, that it is imminent. When are they actually going to do something about producing this document as opposed to talking about it?

In the meantime, the Executive have collectively failed to take any action on illegal flags and graffiti, action that was supported unanimously in the Assembly. The excuse for doing nothing about those issues was that they were being dealt with as part of the community relations review, which has run completely into the sand. Since then, we have all the difficulties that arose during the summer, followed by Ministers making separate personal visits to either side of the peace line.

I must ask the Member to come to the question.

When are they going to do something collectively?

As I indicated in my answer, we hope that the draft consultation paper will go to the Executive shortly. It will then be issued for consultation. However, we do not want to rely on merely going through the standard consultation mechanisms, given the seriousness of the issue. Thus, the First Minister and I have decided that we will convene meetings of the political parties and of the social partners to discuss all the implications. We are trying to focus on this in ways that are helpful and that will involve as many people of different perspectives as possible. The issue will not simply be in any one Department's control, and it will certainly not be controlled by the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister.

We have responded in different ways to problems in several areas. We have worked with other Departments to try to ensure that the devolved Administration is able to respond constructively where it can to some of the issues and difficulties that arise. That work is ongoing.

Mr Ford made an inference about people making separate visits to different sides of the peace line. I had planned to be in east Belfast last Wednesday, on both sides of the peace line, but my mother's death meant that those plans had to change.

Does the Deputy First Minister agree with the statement by the Assistant Chief Constable for Belfast, Alan McQuillan, linking mainstream paramilitaries with the orchestration of interface violence? Can he confirm the current status of the road realignment project promised to the people of Glenbryn?

The Assistant Chief Constable gave an assessment of the involvement of paramilitary organisations in the violence. We all have reason to believe that different paramilitary organisations have been active in different ways and at different levels in much of the violence that we have seen. I am in no doubt that, in many instances, Loyalist paramilitaries are the sole aggressor; in other instances, they are the primary aggressor. In other instances and areas there are Loyalist and Republicans involved actively in fermenting and continuing the violence. We want all paramilitaries to desist from orchestrating violence or responding in a violent way.

The Member asked about what he referred to as the road realignment project. Members may be aware that the First Minister and I appointed arbitrators to look at how best to deal with the outstanding issues in relation to community safety matters and community dialogue. Those were the two main issues that we still had to address and make progress on, based on the letter that the First Minister and I issued last November.

There was not sufficient consensus or acceptance of any of the proposals that the First Minister and I had been working on. We referred it to arbitrators, and they have made their report. We received and accepted recommendations. They have been the subject of further feedback, and we now have a further report from the arbitrators. The Member will be aware that there does not seem to be any wider or more enthusiastic acceptance of the arbitrators' recommendations from the community interests than for any of the previous proposals that the First Minister and I worked on.

My point arises out of Mr Ford's question about a counter-sectarianism strategy. Does the Deputy First Minister not agree that there is a duty on us all - the political parties and civil society - and not just on the Executive or on the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to counteract sectarianism, in whatever form?

I come from north Belfast and represent North Belfast, and we have seen the worst examples of sectarianism. On Saturday night and Sunday night there were further attacks in the Skegoneill area, so I have some knowledge of the situation. Does the Deputy First Minister agree that the only way to tackle sectarianism is to mobilise society, including the political parties?

I agree with the Member, and that is why the First Minister and I decided to convene meetings with the political parties as well as meetings with social partners. This needs community-wide mobilisation. It is not enough simply to deplore sectarian violence where it happens: we must confront, challenge and eradicate sectarianism from society. It is not enough for us to be working in shared institutions: we must ensure that we build a truly shared society. We must ensure that people in all walks of life in all parts of this city, and elsewhere, can live in safety and harmony with their neighbours. That is a huge challenge for us all. We can all be good at pointing out sectarianism in others. Let us confront prejudice in all its forms. That will be a significant challenge for us all - not just for the political parties.

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I offer my sympathy, and that of my party, to the Deputy First Minister on the passing of his mother, comhbhrón ónár gcroí.

Will the Deputy First Minister comment on the recent initiative taken by the Belfast Lord Mayor, Alex Maskey, as part of his contribution towards the campaign to counter sectarianism?

I thank Mr McElduff and take this opportunity to thank all Members who have expressed condolences to me and other family members on the death of my mother. That thanks extends to staff and officials in the Assembly and to journalists.

I attended the anti-sectarianism rally convened by the Lord Mayor of Belfast and Belfast City Council. I said then, and have said since, that it was a commendable initiative. In the past such measures have been led by the trade union movement, and it continues to be positively and proactively involved. It was right and proper for the council and the Lord Mayor to step forward as they did. I hope that their work for good relations bears fruit, and I hope that that happens in all council chambers. Sectarianism and sectarian attacks have not been confined to Belfast. Although sectarianism has a profile and concentration in the Belfast area, sectarianism has reigned havoc in the lives of innocent people in Larne, Coleraine and elsewhere.

I join other Members in extending my sympathy, and that of my party, to the Deputy First Minister on the death of this mother.

In addressing the issue of sectarianism, and the steps needed to combat it, the Deputy First Minister talked about community involvement. But are not the essential community leaders the leaders of the political parties and elected representatives in the Assembly? The deputy chief constable and other members of the security forces acknowledge that paramilitaries are behind the increasing escalation of violence and confrontation in Belfast and other areas and that those paramilitaries are fronted by political parties in the Assembly among others. Bearing that in mind, is it not time that the Executive and the Assembly brought collective and political pressure to bear on those parties representing the organisations that are fermenting and escalating the violence that we wish to combat?

In previous answers I expressed my belief that all political parties share a real responsibility to challenge sectarianism and ongoing paramilitary violence. We must be universal, and as unequivocal as possible, in our condemnation of all paramilitary activity. In the past, unfortunately, there has been an element of "whataboutery", whereby people have tried to excuse or explain one form of paramilitary activity on the back of other forms of it. We must move beyond that, because the whole community wants to know that those who call themselves democrats repudiate paramilitarism in any form and see no justification for it. In a united way, we must make it clear to paramilitaries that they have no right to attack anyone in this society, nor any right to purport to defend anyone.

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3.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to detail any recent discussions with (a) the Prime Minister or (b) the Taoiseach.

(AQO 14/02)

The last joint meeting that the Deputy First Minister and I had with the Prime Minister and with the Taoiseach was at the British-Irish Council meeting in Jersey on 14 June. In addition to the joint meeting there have been several individual meetings.

During any such meetings, did the subject of the implications of the 11 September atrocity arise and hence, by implication, what best Northern Ireland can do to play its part in combating international terrorism?

We approach the first anniversary of the terrible atrocity of 11 September, which crystallised for everyone the tremendous threat that international terrorism has posed for the world. In our own way, I am sure that we are committed to opposing the continuance of terrorism in any form. All the parties that endorsed the agreement affirmed, in its initial paragraphs, their absolute commitment to "peaceful means" and their opposition to the

The phrase "or otherwise" is not qualified. If a party here or an organisation in Northern Ireland has been involved in assisting terrorist organisations elsewhere, as has the Republican movement, it is in breach of its undertakings in the agreement. One would want to know whether all such actions in support of terrorism outside Northern Ireland have ceased and whether the party in question has maintained its connections with ETA and the now illegal Herri Batasuna party. It would, of course, be contrary to the agreement for that party to maintain those connections.

Does the First Minister agree that, in the context of Northern Ireland, the only way to deal authentically with the involvement of terrorists is to make sure that the representatives and leaders of an organisation such as the IRA, which is now operating at the heart of international terrorism, do not continue to participate in the Government of Northern Ireland. Mr Trimble's responsibility is, if needs be, to end that involvement by collapsing the Executive.

It is open to Mr Roche, if he finds it uncomfortable in the Chamber, to leave it.

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