Unlike Mr Close, I do have a mobile phone, which was forced upon me.

I trust that it is switched off?

It is switched off, Mr Speaker. I would not dare to come in here with it on. The SDLP press officer forced me to get one. I resisted for many years, but in the end I gave in. The press officer refused to do anything for me unless I obtained a mobile phone.

We depend on mobile phones, and there is a price to pay - there must be telephone masts, otherwise we will not have a system. However, the UK Government received such a bonanza from mobile phone licences that they were prepared to concede the most lax rules and regulations governing the installation of masts. Therefore, we have the system of prior approval.

I agree with my Colleagues that the matter has caused great public concern. In my constituency, North Belfast, there seems to have been a plethora of applications, possibly because of the elevated topography of the Antrim Road. They have been met by stout resistance from the residents, and rightly so, because the jury is out on the health implications of the masts. Until we receive an independent assessment of the health risk, it is not right for parents or the public to endure the invisible risks of these masts.

There must be stricter regulations. I am glad that the Minister is introducing legislation to put stricter regulations into effect. I do not know how far it will go, but I emphasise to him the importance of looking retrospectively on masts that are already in place and that could be changed. That dimension must be considered carefully when legislation is being prepared. There may be changes to the type of equipment currently in place: it could be made stronger or deadlier; we just do not know. There must be regulations to control that aspect. Although permission has been obtained to erect masts in the past, companies cannot be allowed to retain masts or change them at will.

We must adopt a precautionary approach. We must take on board the findings of the Stewart Report, and we must safeguard the health of our children and the population. Masts should not be situated near schools, housing estates or residential areas.

It is time to introduce tough legislation, which the Minister has promised. It is to be hoped that that legislation will genuinely restrict operators who are only interested in profit and not in the health implications for the majority of our citizens.

I agree with Mr Billy Armstrong who mentioned mast-sharing. There is no reason why companies should not share masts. That is one of the criteria used to determine prior approval.

Unfortunately, it was ignored in the past; I hope that it will not be ignored in future.

The Minister for the Environment (Mr Nesbitt): I have listened to the debate with genuine interest, and I thank the Members who have remained to hear its conclusion.

The Administration represents partnership and trying to work together both politically, in the institution, and with the community. Members may ask why I am promoting partnership. People, with the possible exception of Mr Close, want mobile phones; the telecommunications industry wants to provide masts; and the Department of the Environment wants to facilitate the provision of masts in a way that is conducive to the environment and allows people to use mobile phones. To satisfy those requirements, all the players must work in partnership. I trust that the Assembly, the Department of the Environment and others will be responsive and realistic in providing the required combination.

When the Stewart Report was published in 2000, the Department initiated a full, comprehensive, public consultation, which took into account all the planning implications of the report. The consultation was wide, and those who made submissions to it expressed conflicting views - it would not have been a genuine consultation otherwise. After that consultation the then Minister, Mr Foster, proposed options to the Executive on 6 June 2001. The matter was fully discussed at an Executive meeting on 14 June 2001 and was made public the following day. The Department stated that it would opt for full planning permission and that a planning policy statement would be created in conjunction with full planning. Mr Foster reiterated that announcement on 17 July with a further statement to clarify what was being done.

I am disappointed that it has taken from July last year until now to propose actual legislation with the accompanying policy planning statement. However, it has taken time to get the policy planning statement right. One reason for that was that the health issue had to be dealt with fully. I will speak about that in more detail later, but I wanted to establish the chronology of the consultation first.

I said that partnership was important. Mr Savage mentioned getting the balance right between various demands and wishes. We must take into account the local community, the political institutions and the business community. My Department and I spoke to representatives of the business community this month, and, for the record, we had a good discussion. The Department made it clear that a balance must be struck between what the business community wants and the deliberations that the public expects before masts are erected.

The Department also asked the businesses to fully implement the 10 commitments that they promised, including considerable consultation with the people who will be affected by the masts. We expect the business community to participate fully in the partnership. The Department gave an assurance that, with full planning being implemented, it would ensure that it was carried through as effectively and efficiently as possible with one deferral to counsel, which is now its policy.

Assuming that the Assembly passes the legislation, the Department also said that after six to nine months it would review how the policy was working with the business community and others. The Department is committed to ensuring that the telecommunications sector in Northern Ireland is at the forefront of developments. However, it is also committed to consulting fully with those who are affected by the location of masts. It is not political opportunism on the part of any Member to go for full planning permission. Rather, it represents a response to the many needs of the community.

The Department consulted with the business community on 3 April 2002 and proceeded as quickly as possible to bring the statute and the policy planning statement before the Assembly. Indeed, I want to put on record that the Committee for the Environment stated openly and publicly that the Department should implement the Executive Committee's decision without further delay.

I noted what Dr McCrea said, and I want to put on record that he apologised to me for having to leave before the end of the debate. I accept his apology. I told him that he could read what I had to say in Hansard. The enduring word is the written word. With regard to implementation, the Department brought the Statutory Rule and the policy planning statement to the Committee for the Environment on 9 April 2002 to inform members that the issues were being dealt with and that the policy planning statement would be published on 11 April. The statement was duly published.

The Statutory Rule was laid before the Committee for consultation, and it examined the issues comprehensively. Dr McCrea referred to five aspects of the planning process in his summary. He stated that the Committee wanted full planning permission; the Department has stated that that will happen. He referred to the introduction of the Human Rights Act 1998; there is no need to mention human rights, because it is assumed that human rights are integral to the business of the Assembly. It is part of the convention. No section of the policy planning statement is in conflict with human rights.

Dr McCrea also referred to exclusion zones and incentives for mast-sharing, and I will discuss both issues later. He also referred to a hierarchy of preferred siting; the public can consider where a mast should be located as part of the environmental aspects of the planning process. The Department has reflected fully on the principal concerns of the Chairperson of the Committee for the Environment.

I wish to work fully with the Committee. Since I became Minister, I have consulted with the Committee as much as I can, whether orally, by telephone - without stating which type of telephone - or in writing. However, the Assembly has its proper place at the centre of events. The Department of the Environment and I should reflect and collaborate closely with the Committee.

Dr McCrea mentioned departmental prevarication and also referred to issues on which he thought that the Department had failed to consult with the Committee. A week ago, he had strong words for officials. I am responsible for the operation, direction and control of departmental officials. If Dr McCrea has a problem, it should be addressed to me. I will give the House an example.

The rules were laid before the Committee on 9 April. We allowed the Committee seven days to consider the rules, which was normal. A departmental official alerted me that the Committee was concerned about that time period. I immediately told the official to double the period to two weeks - twice the normal time period - so that the Committee could fully deliberate on the Statutory Rule and the Department could take on the Committee's recommendations. The change of the two dates in the press advertisement was due to my direction in response to what I perceived as a need of the Committee. I want to make it clear that that is not something that merits criticism of my officials.

It is more important to look at the motion. There are two elements to it. It calls for the full implementation of the Stewart Report and requires that no telecommunications masts be erected within 300 yards of a dwelling without consultation. Some Members said that there should be an exclusion zone. However, one Member correctly said that that is not part of the motion. The motion, which I endorse, calls for consultation.

The first element of the motion concerns the Stewart Report. Rev Dr William McCrea said that full planning control is one of the Committee's key elements; it is also a key element of the Stewart Report. Northern Ireland is the only part of the United Kingdom to have accepted that.

We recognise and respond to the need for full planning control in the decision-making process for locating masts. Compared with current prior approval, that will involve several significant changes, notably greater consultation and much more time for scrutiny by officials. Let me make it clear: the process will ensure that there is a press advertisement for the proposed location of every mast. There will be neighbourhood notification and statutory consultation with district councils. In other words, the public will be more fully engaged in the process.

Mr Shannon said in his opening remarks that absolutely no regard was shown for the people. I do not deny that, in the past, certain things were done where the public were perhaps disregarded. Our aim is to ensure that that does not happen in the future, and we look to full planning control to deliver that. Mr Shannon said that masts

If a mast is to be put on a school building then, of course, the consent of the owners - in a sense, the school board of governors - is needed. That is normal civil law. However, if a mast is to be located in an area that is generally geographically close to a school, we want full consultation and notification with both the public and district councils. The process will be open and transparent, and we want the public to be fully involved.

Councils will have an important part to play in dealing with all planning. In addition, as part of the partnership I referred to, full planning control now offers greater opportunity for negotiations to take place between the telecom operators and local people. That has occurred to a certain extent in the past, although it may have been sporadic and geographically dispersed. However, the new rules will ensure a more fully rigorous consultation between the telecom operators and the local public. It is hoped that that will make the telecommunications companies more cognisant so that, before they apply for planning approval, they will have considered, with the public, where the mast should be located.

Telecommunications businesses must play their part in this partnership; so must we.

We also look to the community and district councils to play their part. Therefore, the operators must think carefully.

The policy planning statement aspect came up often, and Mr Kennedy, Mr McLaughlin and Mr Bradley mentioned the sharing of masts. Mr Kennedy talked of over-intensification; Mr McLaughlin said that we should not only monitor, but ensure. The policy planning statement will ensure that, to the extent that if any mast is to be approved, the telecommunications industry must demonstrate that it consulted, tried to locate the mast elsewhere and found that that was not possible. Otherwise, no additional mast will be allowed. I hope that that will take care of intensification and of Mr Bradley's point about siting five masts together. The sharing of masts and the whole environmental issue will be considered, because there must be measures to mitigate visual and environmental impact. Perhaps that can be taken care of by having smaller apparatus, by better design, by using existing structures or buildings, and by sharing mast locations.

The final key area deals with health. In his introduction, Mr Shannon said that people have health concerns. I fully recognise those concerns, but in the same breath I recognise that my Department is not a Department of Health. It deals with planning and other aspects of local government. Part of the development of the policy planning statement was to discuss and negotiate with the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety. It is, therefore, for the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to advise on health matters. We are fully aware of that; it is part of the policy planning statement. The health advice is very clear, in that telecommunications development must meet certain standards - the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP) standards - in all respects. Not only must it do that, but the operator must state that it does so. We are clear about health.

Timing is wonderful in politics. It was interesting that just as Mr Shannon said that we should agree to precautionary exclusion zones - no-go areas in towns and schools - his mobile phone went off. In all probability, if there were no-go zones in urban areas his phone would not work. The timing of that phone ringing was wonderful. In the end, he commented that mobile phones are a part of life. That is true, and George Savage referred to it. Mr McLaughlin also referred to precautionary exclusion zones.

We must strike a balance. With the exception of Mr Close, who stands as a paragon of virtue - he neither has one, wants one, nor will be forced to use one - the vast majority of people use mobile phones. Precautionary exclusion zones are mentioned in the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety's guidance, and the Minister, Bairbre de Brún, has commented on that, as has the Stewart Report. I must make it clear that the Stewart Report, which we are to implement as part of this motion, has not recommended exclusion zones. Nor has it recommended any precautionary approach in that context, but I shall come to that in a moment.

I shall make one other point. We are taking the Minister's advice as part of the policy planning statement. However, were we to disregard her advice, or act in its absence, I should not be surprised if we were challenged in the courts for so doing. That point is worth noting.

Let me return to Mr Close. He said that he did not like emotive words. Mr Speaker, I am conscious of the time, but this is an important issue and I am almost finished.

You have less than one minute.

I should perhaps speed up, but I shall address this point. Mr Close referred to precautionary aspects. We are taking on board the Stewart Report's view of the word "precautionary". Abolition of prior approval is part of what we are doing. We are adopting the public exposure standards of ICNIRP. With respect to the audit of the emissions, they are being monitored and tests have been conducted in Northern Ireland.

Mr Shannon spoke of the need for funding for health research, and Ms Morrice talked about the need for mobile phones. Seven million pounds is available for health research, of which £4 million has been allocated. A lot of that was allocated to deal with the effects of mobile phones, as distinct from the effects of the masts.

I conclude as I started - there are many sensitive issues. A partnership is needed, not just for the Assembly, but for those in the telecommunications industry and the public, because we need phones and masts. Therefore, we must find a way to provide for and satisfy both.

I thank the Members who contributed today. Fourteen Members spoke, on recurring themes. I understand the system; therefore, I am disappointed that the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety was not available to hear the debate, because her input and that of her Department could have been used to draft further legislation that may be needed.

A clear point of view has come through in the debate. Each Member spoke on the health issue. Many mentioned the need for more stringent planning applications. Many voiced their concerns for children who use mobile phones. Each Member mentioned the need for an independent body to monitor the emissions. With the exception of my Colleague from Lagan Valley, Mr Close, who is fortunate enough not to need a mobile phone, most Members acknowledged that need. I am sure that all Members in the Chamber use one. There are technological advances - [Interruption].

Will Mr Hutchinson allow me to make a brief point of information?

I am not sure about Mr Hutchinson, but I am sure that Mr Shannon will.

My apologies, Mr Shannon. It is for the United Kingdom Government, not Northern Ireland as a regional jurisdiction, to decide on an independent health agency.

Regardless of what happens with the legislation, the health issue is clear. People have legitimate concerns and fears about the perceived dangers of telecommunication masts. Those fears have not gone away. Members should never underestimate the opinions of their constituents.

I am concerned. Through the district council, I champion various groups in my constituency on behalf of those who are opposed to telecommunications masts for several reasons. Health concerns are a prime cause for anxiety, but it is also worrying that applications have gone through retrospectively without any consultation with local people. Applications have appeared in the press in small print, and within a month a telecommunications mast has been erected. People in Ballywalter found that a telecommunications mast was erected in the main street overnight. Although people protested, and I contacted the telecommunications firm, it made no difference - the firm insisted on going ahead. Things like that have happened over and over again, and I am concerned that despite all our protestations, the applications went ahead retrospectively.

The Minister indicated that planning law in Northern Ireland has been tightened. It has been tightened, but it does not address many of the issues raised today. What difference would the measures that we have discussed today make? Planning applications would appear in the paper; people would be notified if they live adjacent to the proposed site; and although those people could then respond and tell the planners that they are still unhappy with the position of the telecommunications mast, the decision would still be made to approve it. Therefore, have the regulations and planning changes introduced by the Minister really addressed the problem?

Although I do not mean to criticise the Minister - and I hope that he does not interpret my remarks in that way - the proposed legislation has no teeth and cannot give people what they need. The Minister said that there was particular concern about the possible health effects associated with mobile phone technology. I accept that his Department is not responsible for health, but that is a key issue.

All Members mentioned the need for an independent body to monitor radiation emissions -the Minister said that that would be done - and for action if the emissions should exceed the prescribed limit. The problem is that there is no one to monitor emissions. If mobile phone usage increases in a certain area, the emissions will increase, as will the threat to people's health. Members are concerned that monitoring should be done, about how it should be done, and about how that information should be passed on to elected representatives and their constituents. Emissions should be monitored by an independent body that could collate the evidence and statistics and make them available to anyone who wishes to see them. Action should then be taken on the basis of that evidence. Telecommunications companies should pay for that body, because they are making a fortune from mobile phone users.

Members mentioned planning regulations and discussed the problems of obtrusive masts being located in conservation areas and Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty. Many mast applications were slipped in through the back door, and companies have used the opportunities afforded by holidays, and so on, to get planning approval.

I mentioned the concerns about the erection of masts in locations such as residential areas, schools, hospitals, town centres and shopping areas. Where a mast is hidden behind a building, it does not mean that people have no concerns about its dangers. The Minister says that the legislation will be tighter in Northern Ireland than it will be in any other part of the United Kingdom; however, it is not tight enough. It is not sufficiently far-reaching, and it has no teeth. We welcome what has happened to date, but it is not enough to address people's concerns.

Most Members mentioned Government assurances. Mr Close mentioned that, as did Mr Savage. The Government assured us that there was no problem with CJD and BSE, asbestosis or overhead lines. However, over time, it has become apparent that those are very real problems. Therefore, no one could claim that assurances by Government bodies are enough to convince us that everything is all right.

Rev McCrea quoted Sir William Stewart's very good statement that if there were any "indirect adverse effects" on people's health and welfare, we should take precautions. This legislation does not constitute a precautionary approach. If there are dangers - and many of us believe that there are - we should err on the side of caution.

The Minister mentioned the motion. If those who live within 300 yards of a proposed mast are fully consulted and say that they are unhappy, their concerns should be responded to. We need such input into the legislation. If the residents concerned say that they do not want a mast, the Minister should respond by ensuring that their wishes are upheld.

We cannot ignore the planning issues or local people's concerns. A seminar at Queen's University, which Sir William Stewart attended, was bunged with people from all over Northern Ireland who were concerned about telecommunication masts. Sir William Stewart made some excellent proposals in his report, and we should endorse those. What we have today is a response that gives some portion in relation to planning, but it does not address the overall concerns.

Sir William Stewart advised people to err on the side of caution and to take a precautionary attitude to these planning applications. I believe that we have no option but to follow that line of thought. If there is any indirect adverse effect on the health and welfare of people, then we are duty bound, as elected representatives, to respond to that and to articulate that point of view on their behalf. Looking at this legislation, many will feel that it has not gone far enough.

Mainstream Funding For Ballybeen Women's Group

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As so often is the case within the social fabric of Northern Ireland, women are to be found at the forefront of projects, programmes and schemes aimed at enriching the social well-being of local communities and benefiting the individuals who live within those communities. Likewise, the organisations that they have formed to facilitate the provision of services have been the driving force behind the campaign to have their work recognised and formally backed and funded by central Government. Without the necessary finance, these committed individuals, through their organisations, would not be in a position to maintain and develop the services that they currently provide to the community. The work done over the past number of years has been such that if the services were to be lost, there would be very tangible, negative effects on the health and wealth of the local community.

You might ask what exactly those services are, and, if they are so important, how it is that we do not already know about them. The services provided by Ballybeen Women's Group, and by other similar groups across Northern Ireland, are many and varied, and history has proved that their operation has been an understated success.

The education and training programme of Ballybeen Women's Centre is a first step back into full-time education, training, and, ultimately, employment for many women. The centre endeavours to make that transition as easy as possible through a number of measures. It offers courses that are free or where costs are kept to a minimum, which is essential as Ballybeen has been recognised as an official TSN area. It provides free crèche facilities to all participants, which are crucial for mothers wishing to avail of the centre's services. The timing of courses is set to meet the domestic responsibilities of local women. The structuring of courses at suitable times of the day, which takes into account the domestic responsibilities of women, works hand in hand with the crèche provision to make courses as accessible as possible for all who are interested.

Away from the directly educational and training purposes of the courses provided, the centre offers a warm, friendly and supportive learning environment for all who attend. It serves as an emotional outlet for mothers and others to escape from the pressures of everyday life, to relax and to recharge their batteries. The aim of this particular facility is to provide access and support for women who may need additional basic skills support while on courses - women who wish to improve their basic skills for their own self-esteem or to assist their children with homework. The objective is to equip women with the necessary basic skills to encourage and enable progression to further education, training or employment.

As for the nuts and bolts of the education and training programmes offered, the centre facilitates a range of accredited courses through the Royal Society of Arts (RSA), City and Guilds, GCSE, and Open College Network formats, as well as non-certified courses. The centre is also a member of Belfast Women's Training Services, which provides two Open College Network-accredited pre-vocational courses, free to women through the Women Moving On and Women Progressing programmes.

Information and communication technology (ICT) is one area of business that has expanded rapidly in the past 10 years and has become ever more important in the fields of both education and learning. Therefore, it is essential that women from the Ballybeen area be provided with the opportunity to expand their knowledge in this field. The group works in conjunction with Dundonald Flexible Learning Centre to provide opportunities to gain various ICT skills and qualifications on site, including RSA, computer literacy and information technology (CLAIT), information business technology and word processing courses.

The provision of ICT training facilities is crucial to the development of local women, and that has been compounded by plans to close the Dundonald outreach centre of Castlereagh College of Further and Higher Education this September. That closure will result in the loss of 161 ICT places, stripping the TSN area of Ballybeen of its main centre for training and further education. This has been done with the knowledge of the Department for Employment and Learning. With Adult Learning Week only three weeks away, that makes complete nonsense of the Department's policy on this crucial matter.

This development makes the continued existence, growth and success of the Ballybeen Women's Group infinitely more important. If it should fail to attract the necessary funding, Ballybeen would become an educational and training desert. As a provider of further education, the group operates as an outreach centre of Castlereagh College of Further and Higher Education, with which it works closely and through which tutors are provided for several of its courses.

Good-quality childcare has important benefits for individuals, families, communities, society and the economy as a whole. The Ballybeen Women's Group promotes the value of education for all ages, from early years upward. There is an emphasis on quality provision in the services for under-fives, which ensures that children are better prepared to move on to mainstream education. Children who experience good pre-school education, particularly those from disadvantaged backgrounds or with special needs, are better prepared for school, learn more quickly and have fewer emotional and behavioural difficulties in later life. The better the start children have at school, the more likely they are to use their school experience positively.

The Ballybeen Women's Group has successfully developed and provided quality childcare services for the under-fives in the Ballybeen area since 1989. As well as providing crèche facilities, Ballybeen Women's Group also provides facilities for the operation of pre-school and toddlers' groups. The crèche facility is available to anyone using the education services in the centre or drop-in facility. The pre-school operates five morning sessions every week, Monday to Friday, for those aged from three and a half to four years old. The toddlers' group caters for children aged from two years, nine months to three and a half years.

Last year, the organisation succeeded in opening new premises to meet the demand for its pre-school programme and to relocate crèche facilities to the vacated pre-school. It is a testament to the commitment of those involved that structural and renovation work was completed in four months.

The centre also operates a special needs training course, aimed at developing students' knowledge, understanding, confidence and competence when working with children with a variety of special needs and providing fundamental knowledge to any student who wishes to be assessed at NVQ level. This course enables students to understand the need to develop relationships with both parents and professionals and to understand the need for, and to devise, a structured programme for the child with special needs in consultation with parents.

Perhaps the most progressive and ambitious project led by the Ballybeen Women's Group is the peer education programme, which is a community-based health project for young people between the ages of 10 and 25. The programme is aimed at providing a sensitive and non-threatening environment in which young people can discuss sex education and alcohol and drug abuse and the impact that those issues have on society. Young people can identify their own needs and discuss how they can be addressed.

At present, the centre has a pool of educators who are involved in training other young people of a similar age. Those educators are volunteers who have undergone intensive training in health issues and accredited training in communication and group-working skills. That training has provided them with the ability to make what is an imaginative and innovative programme work for those who participate.

The programme gives young people the chance to discuss their attitudes towards their sexual activity and the impact of HIV and single parentage, and to reflect on their feelings. One exercise involves a young person taking responsibility for a simulated baby, and the centre has obtained two of those. The simulated babies replicate a real child's behaviour and illustrate the complexities of being responsible for a child. The aim is to provide an experience for young adults that simulates the parenting of a baby and explores the emotional, financial and social consequences of becoming a real parent.

Those issues tend to be more common in areas -

Order. I advise the Member that several other Members wish to contribute to the debate. If she could bring her remarks to a close reasonably soon, it would give them all an opportunity to speak.

I understand. Thank you. Those issues tend to be more common in areas of social deprivation. The programme serves to provide information on the issues to those that are most likely to come into direct contact with them.

I want support for the Ballybeen Women's Group, so I shall leave it at that and allow other Members to speak.

If other Members could keep their speeches to just under eight minutes, that would give the Minister 10 minutes to reply, as is the normal custom.

I thank Mrs Robinson for introducing this Adjournment debate. I tutored the Ballybeen Women's Group on the subject of "women into politics", so I am aware of the services and support that it provides to women in Ballybeen.

The issues and problems facing Ballybeen Women's Centre are duplicated in women's centres throughout Northern Ireland. To say that the role of women in the community is vital may sound clichéd, but I make no apology for stating the obvious. The majority of women work at grass-roots level in the community, and women's centres are an essential part of that work. According to the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action's publication, 'State of the Sector II', 10,322 women were employed full-time in the community sector in 1996-97. That amounts to 31% of the total workforce. Some 8,270 part-time jobs amounted to 25% of the workforce. However, there is a failure to recognise the importance of grass-roots development as a basis for a growing economy.

Women's groups across the Province are adversely affected by the lack of core funding. Those issues cannot simply be regarded as women's issues. They need to be seen as society's issues. Slightly more than half the population are women, and until they are enabled to take their positions and participate fully in public life at all levels, a serious democratic deficit will remain.

A society that excludes such a large section of the population from participating in the decisions that affect their lives cannot be described as a genuine and inclusive democracy. We cannot afford not to make use of the talents and skills that can bring better standards of living for all.

Many women's initial involvement in the community is based on a single issue. They concentrate on matters such as children's play areas, traffic-calming measures, drug problems, or the setting up of after-school clubs. Those issues are crucially important, and many women see them as a stepping stone to developing an infrastructure for the whole community. They also give them an opportunity to widen their horizons and use their experience as a launch pad to get involved in decision-making at a higher level.

There are many obvious pitfalls that await us in the real world when we try to get actively involved in the community, and underfunding is the main one.

Women's groups provide an invaluable service for the whole community: not just for women. Often when applying for funding to continue services, groups are passed from one Department to another. At this point, I would have liked to ask the Minister for Social Development, whose Department has responsibility for funding the community and voluntary sectors, why women's groups have constantly to battle for funding given that the Harbinson review - which was led by the Department for Social Development - looked into funding in the voluntary sector as a whole. I cannot do so, as the Minister has not seen fit to attend the debate.

This issue is not solely a matter of gender policy; it falls within the remit of the Department for Social Development's funding for community and voluntary groups and because of that I would have expected Mr Dodds to contribute to the debate. Perhaps he is boycotting the Assembly as well as the Executive.

I understand that OFMDFM is working with Departments on a strategy for gender policy and that an interdepartmental group has been convened to look at the issues surrounding women's groups. The petition concerning women's groups presented by Ms Morrice on 19 March has gone to the Committee of the Centre and is being considered. I hope that something positive and proactive will come from that.

We should never underestimate the amount of hard work, dedication and achievement that women have given to their communities and the wider effects on people in other sectors who have gained from those experiences. It is essential that the numbers, and calibre, of such women grow in the future. That can only happen by way of a co-ordinated approach across all sectors and in particular the Departments of the Assembly.

I express gratitude to my Colleague, Mrs I Robinson, for bringing such an important subject to the Floor. I support the work of the Ballybeen Women's Group and all other such organisations that find themselves in exactly the same uncertain funding position. Ms Lewsley has mentioned that uncertainty.

Mrs I Robinson has fully explained what is needed. I shall simply say a few words about what I know of the Ballybeen Women's Group. It is an important health, education and childcare provider. I had the recent pleasure of attending a distribution of merit certificates to successful students. I pay tribute to all recipients, and, of course, the administrators in all aspects of the work going on at the Ballybeen Women's Group.

As elected representatives, we must do what we can to ensure that this vital facility is not threatened. I am grateful that the Minister with some responsibility for these matters is in attendance. I appeal to those in authority in the Assembly to ensure that sufficient funding is in place, not only to sustain the present activities at Ballybeen but also to enhance and extend the work into new programmes. The group provides an excellent and valuable human and social service to a great many people, not only in the Ballybeen area but also to a much wider field, and that service must continue.

It would be proper to express gratitude to the organisations that have contributed to this group and to other groups. Ballybeen Women's Group recently had an important visitor: the Paymaster-General from the Treasury Office. She must have seen for herself the extraordinary work carried out by the group. Had I been in her position, I would have simply written a large cheque to enable Ballybeen Women's Group to get on with its work, sound in the knowledge that the service will continue without worry or concern. I ask the Minister and all Departments to do what they can to ensure that the work of the Ballybeen Women's Group continues.

I welcome today's debate, which gives us another opportunity to raise the issue of the disgraceful situation that women's groups that provide such a tremendous resource for the community have to scramble around for funding.

There is no proper reward or recognition for the tremendous work being carried out in these centres. Mrs I Robinson listed the particulars of Ballybeen, and Ms Lewsley and Mr McCarthy said that such work is replicated throughout Northern Ireland. However, for some reason, Ministers' eyes are blinkered: they will not go and look at the centres and they will not recognise the type of work being done there. I could go into detail about that work, however, Iris Robinson spoke at length about the different areas. We are talking about health, education, training and social services.

It may be better to think of this topic in budgetary terms rather than in terms of social affairs. These groups are saving money and are helping health budgets because of the advice and counselling they provide to women who are vulnerable to illnesses such as depression. The psychiatric support being given in these centres reduces pressure in some parts of the Health Service. There are good budgetary reasons for supporting these centres.

The centres provide basic skills for women - reducing pressure on the Training and Employment Agency. Women are given the confidence to try out their skills in information technology in a safe, warm, friendly atmosphere. The centres reduce the pressure on training budgets that would require people to go elsewhere for assistance. They also reduce pressure on childcare provision and on the Citizens Advice Bureaux. The value of their work must be recognised.

Iris Robinson mentioned youth services, and that is an important project for peer education and the fact that young people can learn about sex education. They can also learn about the use and abuse of drugs. How do we measure the value of that to our community, and where is that recognition being given? There are accredited courses; special needs training courses and free crèche facilities.

An important thing that has changed in society is the education of our children. They are coming to the centres and are being educated: their mothers are being educated also. Charles D McIver once said:

I believe, and I accept, that things are changing, but I know that Mrs Robinson totally agrees with me. The centres are vital, and that must be recognised by our society.

I was interested in Ms Lewsley's figures that approximately 10,000 women are employed full-time in the centres, and 8,000 are employed part-time. Those people would otherwise be unemployed - so that is reducing pressure. If Ministers only understand the parlance of economic policy, then they should look at the different areas where centres are reducing pressure.

Undoubtedly the EU, in the Peace I programme, recognised the value of centres and paid money to support them: that is where the original money came from, and I am ready to stand corrected. The big problem now is that Peace II is not providing the facilities for funding the centres. Why was their value recognised under Peace I, but, suddenly, not valued under what is supposed to be the same programme?

What is going on here? It is time that the Government recognised the value. That is why we are calling for core funding for Ballybeen and all the other centres. They should not have to scramble about from one Department to another filling in application forms. Things must be made easier for these women. They provide an important and valuable service. If we cannot provide core funding - and we should not accept an "If we cannot" - at the very least we have to provide some sort of safety net. Those who apply for Peace II funding and do not get it should have their applications looked at again so that they can get that funding. If they do not meet the criteria, then the criteria are wrong. Change the criteria and get the funding through to these groups.

I would like to thank my Colleague Mrs Iris Robinson for tabling this Adjournment debate today. It is extremely important that the subject of mainstream funding for the community and the voluntary sector is addressed.

Once it had been noted that this Adjournment debate was to be held today, I received a call from the Windsor Women's Centre in my constituency of South Belfast. They asked me to highlight the difficulties in relation to funding which are facing women's centres across the Province. I would like to focus on and to highlight the marvellous contribution that the voluntary and community centres make to Northern Ireland and how groups such as women's centres are of relevance to every community within the Province. Centres such as Ballybeen Women's Centre and the Windsor Women's Centre help the community to grow by adopting a bottom-up approach and, in doing so, provide services that are delivered and managed by the people. These organisations have vast amounts of experience in dealing with women's issues and deliver much-needed support to women of all ages and to the community as a whole.

Women's centres provide a valued service, and they play a major part in the lives of our communities. The Ballybeen Women's Centre and, indeed, the Windsor Women's Centre are both situated in areas of high unemployment, and both areas have a high rating under the Noble index with regard to deprivation. Both groups go a long way to support vulnerable and socially isolated women. They deliver their services based on the needs of women and their families. These include affordable quality childcare provision, education classes, young mother's groups, baby clinics, elderly women's groups, youth clubs and advice units. These centres also operate on a cross-community basis and provide support to both sides of the religious divide, therefore opening up communication between the different communities. Many strong friendships and relationships have been formed as a result, which makes for a more stable and peaceful community.

The funding process is often a complex and fragmented one in that these groups are dependent on several different funding streams for a variety of different budgets. The funding process can also be painfully slow and complicated, and as a result these groups have to prove their eligibility for funding due to the competition for resources. Unfortunately this means that many groups are suffering as a result.

I would like at this point to examine the community fund, which shares out money raised by the National Lottery to charities and to voluntary and community groups. The community fund recently launched its new strategic plan for 2002 through to 2007, and unfortunately the expected grant income falls from £287 million for 2002-03 down to £215 million for 2004-05. This will mean that financial support will not be given to as many projects as before, and tough decisions will ultimately have to be made in order to ascertain which project should be funded. At most, women's centres have previously been guaranteed perhaps three years funding, but the recent trend of budgets being cut has led to the closure of many centres or has led to certain projects being suspended. Many women's centres have operated on a shoestring budget for many years, and at present there is no continuity of funding.

Unfortunately, this sector is living from one year to the next, not knowing if it will be provided with funding to allow it to continue with its valuable work.

We must not underestimate the role that the voluntary and community sector play in providing support and its contribution to the development of social inclusion and equality. We must be encouraged by the work of these organisations to address issues associated with women and the emphasis they place on the personal development, training and upskilling of individuals to encourage and better equip them to escape the benefit trap.

There is a real pressure on these groups, and funding is required to sustain their valuable support services. Finance is crucial to the success of the voluntary sector, and I therefore call on the Government to promote and support this work through the provision of mainstream funding. By achieving that, women's centres will have more stability and recognition of their valuable work and will be free to raise funds for other projects in the various centres thus enabling them to deliver the community development aspect of their work.

Mr Speaker, I rise to support the motion.

It's clamant that Ballybeen's Weimen's Curn gets ahauld o mainstream siller, for it's a lyfelyne ti monie o the weimen as gies it a cry-in. The curn pits siller inti upbring an skuilin for weimen fae thae airts sae as thai can get examins as wul mebbe gie thaim a heft oot o the fankil o puirtith. This lyfelyne o edication is growein in importance, sin yin o the countie's mukklest employers is eftir layin aff mair an mair o its wirkars in the bygaen seiven month, maist lyke as an affcum o the Septemmer 11 disaster. This haes left monie faimlies on the breidlyne, aften wi nae pey cummin intil the housshauld.

It is imperative that Ballybeen Women's Group gains mainstream funding, because it is a lifeline for many of the women who attend it. I was fortunate to be invited by the group one morning to hear a wee bit about it, and I shared their scones and coffee.

I learnt what the group does and its impact on the estate. The group invests in training and educating local women so that they can gain qualifications that may help to lift them out of the trap of poverty. The lifeline of education is increasingly important, as one of the country's main employers has laid off more and more of its workers in the past seven months, apparently as a repercussion of the September 11 disaster. That has left many families on the breadline, with low wages going into the households. Groups such as the Ballybeen Women's Group have offered a lifeline to such families, giving the women an opportunity to re-educate themselves and learn skills that will help them to find gainful employment. Skills such as computer literacy are learnt at such groups, which many did not have the opportunity to learn at school. Many women only need to brush up on some skills, and they find that the women's group has a less intimidating feel than the regulated and bewildering environment that local colleges may present.

Many women progress to local further education colleges, once the informal and nurturing atmosphere such women's groups around the countryside provide has restored confidence in their ability. Many have been out of the workplace and learning sphere for as much as 20 years, and they find that the encouragement they receive from the women's group is what is needed to encourage them to achieve anything they set their minds to.

Not all the courses are strictly academic. Many help women relax. My wife often tells me that she needs to get out of the house and away from the children at least one night a week just to keep her sanity. There are classes on crafts, sign language, first aid and assertive parenting. These courses are designed to attract women of all interests and give them time out, indulging in something purely for themselves, which can only be good for them. If the Ballybeen Women's Group does not receive funding, these services will be lost, and the group will have to break up after being in existence for 18 years and helping countless numbers of ladies in the estate.

The Ballybeen Women's Group has been at the centre of promoting women's issues, bringing to local women the facts about such things as cancer screening programmes. The help that the group has brought to the community cannot be measured. By bringing facts about such things as breast or ovarian cancer to the fore, ultimately the lives of countless women will be saved. When someone is distressed and frightened by what she thinks she may have, the women of the community find the information they require in a simple and clear way.

Those groups are incredible sources of strength and understanding to the people that attend them. Friendships are struck up that might not be formed otherwise in this busy and sometimes anti-social twenty-first century, where people are more concerned about themselves than about the community. The women form the sort of support networks that have not been readily available since the beginning of the last century. The women that attend are the grandmothers and mothers of teenagers, newborn babies and toddlers. They all converse and offer advice and a helping hand to each other.

That type of networking was once the mainstay of society. However, in our modern, technologically advanced world, the art of communication with our neighbours has been lost, and reaching out to others is sometimes fraught. The women's group provides an environment in which people can talk to others on the same platform with acceptance guaranteed.

One of the most attractive and supportive aspects of the Ballybeen Women's' Group is the provision of a crèche for toddlers and pre-schoolchildren. The mothers and the women who work there form a support network, and they can train to become qualified childminders. Therefore by using common sense, this group has helped three parts of the community - those who wish to take an hour's break from the children to participate on a course or catch up with friends can do so knowing that their children are being cared for; the children who socialise with others and gain social skills; and the childcare students who get hands-on experience, while being fully supervised by experienced childminders. The women's centre is a model of good practice for service delivery. The Assembly, and the Government as a whole, should mirror the joined-up approach that it takes to community needs.

These centres, of which the Ballybeen group is only one, are first-class examples of how to provide vital services, which will disappear if funding is not found for them. That would be disastrous for the policy of targeting social need and for the workforce as a whole. I support the motion.

The Junior Minister (Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister) (Mr Leslie): My Colleagues in the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister and I appreciate the valuable work that women's centres do. I am acutely aware that, as Ms Lewsley pointed out, at least 50% of the population may be affected by their work.

I acknowledge the valuable work that is done in education and training, and particularly the contribution that is made towards bringing women into the workforce or getting them back into the workforce, according to circumstances. They also provide family support, childcare, after-school projects and a range of other services.

It is clear that women's centres are an important resource for the community as a whole. Ballybeen Women's Group has made a considerable contribution to a large community where there are high areas of deprivation. Recently my Colleague, Mr Haughey, met representatives of women's organisations to gain a better understanding of the issues. As a result of that meeting, we have taken the initiative of bringing together an interdepartmental group to explore issues relating to the funding of women's organisations.

Members will appreciate that several Departments are involved, and officials from my Department are in discussions with them to agree a final position paper with a view to identifying how the problems can be most effectively addressed. That paper will be ready within the next few weeks.

The funding difficulties of women's centres are not unique to the voluntary and community sector. Funding requirements are not a unique subject for debate in the House. Ministers' jobs would be much simpler if the reservoir of funding were always full. It is important that women's centres' funding requirements are examined in the context of the funding for the voluntary and community sector as a whole.

That was recognised in the recent Harbinson Report, with which some Members may be familiar. That review was led by the Department for Social Development. It recommended that a task force be established to look at funding issues across the voluntary and community sector. An integral part of the work of that task force will be to examine the funding of women's centres.

I must emphasise that although I am responding to the debate because the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister felt that it was important that I should do so, the funding of women's centres is principally the responsibility of the Department for Social Development. We have asked our officials to work with those in the Department for Social Development in order to identify, as a matter of importance, the most pressing needs of such groups and how those needs might be addressed.

On the issue of Ballybeen Women's Group, which Mrs Iris Robinson has brought to the attention of the House, I understand that the centre has in recent years been successful in obtaining funding from a variety of sources, including over £360,000 from the Peace I programme. Ms Morrice raised the issue of obtaining funding from the Peace II programme, in which some of the criteria may be different.

Peace II and the EU building sustainable prosperity programme can supply funding. However, applicants must meet the criteria. The criteria for Peace II are peace orientated. The activities for which funding is applied must address the legacy of the conflict and/or they must develop the opportunities that are presented by peace. I hope that within those criteria there will be scope for women's centres to make successful applications.

I want to raise a point in relation to European funding. It is interesting that the Minister mentioned the criteria for Peace II, which were exactly the same as the criteria for Peace I. It was recognised that women's centres did contribute to peace and reconciliation. Indeed, they made a vital contribution to peace and reconciliation in Peace I, so why not in Peace II?

There is no particular "why not" regarding Peace II. I believe that opportunities will be there under that programme.

Ballybeen Women's Group also received funding under the early years development fund of £100,000 until the end of the 2003 financial year. I understand that that funding comes from the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and that the Department will endeavour where possible to continue that support on a project basis.

During 2001-02 Ballybeen Women's Group was funded by a grant of £67,000 from the Belfast Regeneration Office. Earlier in the calendar year, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety made an outline submission to Belfast Regeneration Office for further funding of £92,000 to support the Ballybeen Women's Group during the 2002-03 financial year. The Belfast Regeneration Office has given that a high priority classification and has asked for a full application. My understanding is that when the full application is received it is likely to be looked on favourably.

I am conscious that the future funding of this sector is a crucial matter and one of grave concern to those involved in women's groups. That is why the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister has set up the task force, which is the body that will examine future funding. We must now look to the task force to carry out its work and to make its recommendations.

Adjourned at 7.29 pm