Children (Leaving Care) Bill: 
Second Stage

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The Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety (Ms de Brún):

Molaim go dtugtar a Dhara Céim don Bhille Leanaí (Ag Fágáil Cúraim).

I nDeireadh Fómhair 2000, sheol mé tuarascáil dar teideal 'Promoting Independence: a Review of Leaving and After Care Services'. Bhí an tuarascáil, a cuireadh amach ag Foireann Chigireachta na Seirbhísí Sóisialta, bunaithe ar shuirbhé ar sholáthar fhágáil cúraim agus soláthar iarchúraim ar fud na n-iontaobhas uilig i 1999. Ba é príomhchinneadh an athbhreithnithe go mbíonn daoine óga atá ag fágáil cúraim faoi mhíbhuntáistí i dtaca le hoideachas, fostaíocht, tithíocht agus tacaíocht theaghlaigh de. Fuair an tuarascáil gur gá le tacaíocht níos fearr ó ghníomhaireachtaí na hearnála poiblí.

Idir 1996 agus 1999 d'fhág thart ar 670 duine óg idir 16 agus 18 cúram. Ní raibh ach 16 bliana ag beagnach 25% acu ag fágáil cúraim dóibh. Den chuid eile, d'fhág breis agus 50% acu cúram sular shroich siad 18. Tá na daoine óga seo atá ag fágáil cúraim ar na daoine is leoachailí inár sochaí, agus tá dúshláin mhóra futhu. Caithfidh siad déileáil leis an chumha; caithfidh siad obair a fháil; agus caithfidh siad fáil amach cé leis a ba chóir dóibh dul i dteagmháil ar lorg cuidiú. Ó nach bhfuil tacaíocht theaghlaigh ag mórán de na daoine óga seo, is fadhbanna móra iad na fadhbanna seo a chuireann faoi mhíbhuntáiste iad.

I beg to move

In October 2000, I launched a report titled 'Promoting Independence: A Review of Leaving and Aftercare Services'. The report, which was produced by the Social Services Inspectorate, was based on a survey of leaving and aftercare provision across all trusts during 1999. The review's main finding was that young people leaving care experience a range of disadvantages in education, employment, housing and family support. The report concluded that there was a need for a better level of support from public agencies.

Between 1996 and 1999, some 670 young people aged between 16 and 18 became care leavers. Almost 25% of those young people were aged only 16 when they left care. Of the remainder, over 50% left care before reaching the age of 18. Young care leavers are among the most vulnerable young people in society, and they face several major challenges. They must cope with issues such as loneliness, finding a job and knowing whom to contact for help. For many of those young people, who lack family support, those are major problems that place them at a disadvantage.

The report noted that the range of accommodation into which young people move after leaving care is varied, and provides different levels of support and supervision. On leaving care, 35% of young people returned home, and 35% moved into their own accommodation, were discharged to semi-independent living or were admitted to hostels. The remaining 30% either went into other unspecified accommodation or were not accounted for by the trust that had been looking after them.

Trusts already have arrangements in place to provide leaving and aftercare services. The Bill aims to help to further promote the life chances of young people who are looked after by trusts as they make the gradual transition from care to independent living. The introduction of the Bill meets a commitment in the Programme for Government to introduce legislation to help to support young people who are leaving care.

In March 2001, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety published a consultation document titled 'Proposals for a Children Leaving Care Bill'. I am pleased to say that the proposals received general support, and I thank all the organisations that responded.

The Bill itself is fairly short. Members have a copy of the explanatory and financial memorandum, which describes the Bill's provisions. The new legislation is intended to form the basis for new and improved leaving and aftercare services, building on the existing statutory provisions in the Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995. I will outline the main features of the Bill.

The support provided by trusts to young people in care, and to those leaving care, should be equivalent to that which young people should receive from good parents.

When the new legislation comes into operation, every young person aged 16 or over being looked after by social services and who satisfies certain criteria will have a pathway plan and a personal adviser. It is important that young people be helped to plan their future to enable them to achieve their aspirations. The pathway plan will be crucial to the new arrangements, as it will map out the road to independent living. It will address issues such as accommodation, education, training, career plans and the support to be provided by the trust.

We will want young people to be directly involved in drawing up their plans, together with other interested parties. The plan will be reviewed regularly so that it develops with the young person's changing needs and ambitions. It will continue in effect until the young person reaches 21, and beyond that if the young person is in a programme of education or training that takes them past that age.

The Bill also introduces a new duty requiring trusts to arrange for each eligible young person to have a personal adviser. Many young people are unaware of the services available to them and how to access them. Under the new arrangements, it is essential that young people receive the necessary support and assistance in a co-ordinated and easily accessible way. It is intended that the personal adviser will act as a single point of contact for the young person and will provide general support and advice.

The adviser will be involved in preparing the young person's pathway plan and will be responsible for overseeing its implementation. The adviser will be expected to keep in touch with the young person after he or she has left care. By making the appointment of the personal adviser a statutory requirement, we wish to emphasise our belief that young people leaving care should have access to someone who is committed to their long-term well-being. The personal adviser will occupy a role similar to that of the parent of a child who has left the family home - in other words, someone who is there to provide support.

The Bill will simplify arrangements for the financial support of 16- and 17-year-olds who leave care. Clause 6 lays the foundations for the new financial regime. At present, young people who leave care at 16 can claim social security benefits and receive some additional support from trusts' aftercare services. Rather than be dependent on a confusing mix of social services support and social security benefits, the Bill provides that the trust will normally be the primary source of income for young people leaving care at 16 or 17.

Clause 6 will remove the access that these young people previously had to income support, jobseeker's allowance and housing benefit. The resources currently deployed by the Department for Social Development in relation to means-tested benefits will be transferred to the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and allocated to trusts to support these young people.

However, the Bill recognises that lone parents and children with a disability have special needs. Under the new arrangements, 16- and 17-year-old lone parents and certain disabled young people who are in care, or who are care leavers, will remain eligible for income support. Regulations will set out those groups excluded from the restriction on benefit payment.

The Bill also provides that the responsible trust must continue to keep in touch with a care leaver until he or she is at least 21, and must continue to provide a personal adviser and a pathway plan.

For young people leaving care at 18, a new set of arrangements will apply until age 21. Trusts will have a duty to provide general assistance in cash or in kind. They will also have a duty to provide assistance with costs associated with employment, education and training until the young person reaches the age of 21, so long as his or her welfare requires it. When the young person reaches that age, he or she will generally be assumed to have entered the adult world.

However, continuing support in education and training is important, and where a course or training programme has already commenced it would be unfair for that support to cease. Accordingly, the Bill provides for assistance from the trust, if necessary, for a young person in education or training before age 21 until the end of the agreed programme of education or training, even if that takes the young person past the age of 21.

In addition, the Bill empowers trusts to assist care leavers with the expenses associated with any education or training programmes that they begin after the age of 21. Although not couched as a duty, the provision will give a further safety net to 21- to 24-year-olds who failed to take up education options earlier.

The Bill represents a broad framework for the further development of services for those who are leaving, or who have left, care. The needs of those vulnerable young people can be met only if the relevant agencies and individuals work together. Detailed guidance will be needed to promote a consistent approach by trusts and to address matters such as needs assessment, the role of the personal adviser, the development of pathway plans and accommodation and education issues.

There are some examples of good practice through collaboration between statutory and voluntary agencies that deal with young care leavers. In order to build on that, it is intended that the guidance and regulations under the new legislation will be developed on an inter-agency basis, and that a regional group, involving key players in the statutory and voluntary sectors, will be established to facilitate implementation. The legislation will provide the impetus for those developments, and I commend the Bill to the Assembly.

The Chairperson of the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety (Dr Hendron): I welcome the Bill. As the Minister said, it addresses a real social problem. It deals with large numbers of young people who, often through no fault of their own, have had to spend their childhoods in care. Those children are young and vulnerable, and many are forced to fend for themselves when they are only 16 years old. They must find themselves somewhere to live and a job, which can be difficult even for a young person who is brought up in a loving family. Young people who are in care must do without the support of a stable family background, and often without any educational qualifications.

The Minister explained that the Bill seeks to improve the life chances of young people who are looked after by the health and social services trusts as they leave care to live independently. It will place new duties on social services to assess and to meet their care and support needs until they are at least 21 years old. It also seeks to simplify the arrangements for their financial support.

Helping young care leavers to become responsible adults can only benefit them and society. Although I welcome the aims of the Bill, I am sure that the members of the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety will wish to examine its detail to ensure that it will do exactly what it says it will do. For example, there are questions to be asked about the ability of trusts to provide the assessments and to meet the identified needs, and we must examine how the financial support arrangements will work in practice. Members want assurance that it will be an effective Bill that will make a real and positive difference to the lives of young people who live in care. I look forward to considering the Bill during its Committee Stage.

I welcome the Bill. Members will agree that young people in that age group need the support that is outlined in the Bill, because it is a difficult age at which to be thrown out into the world, with all its problems and temptations. What format will the training for advisers take? Who will agree the best way to implement a pathway plan? Will each adviser formulate his or her own plan, or will a standard pathway be set?

I am glad that the issue of financial support has been dealt with in the Bill. It will remove many of the concerns that young people have about finding employment while they are keen to continue with education. Having worked in the education field with people of this age for nearly 20 years, I understand their concerns.

The Committee Chairperson mentioned the responsibilities of trusts. Where will trusts that are already strapped for cash find the extra finance? What arrangements will be made to ensure that trusts are held accountable for their duties, as set out in the Bill? What arrangements are being made to ensure that uniformity of approach will be achieved in all trust areas?

I will support the Chairperson in examining all aspects of the Bill at Committee Stage. However, I am glad to support the Bill as it stands.

Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Like the Committee Chairperson and Bob Coulter, I welcome the ethos of the Bill. I place on record the commitment of the Minister to ensure that children who fall under her remit top the agenda in the Assembly and in the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety.

The Chairperson said that young people leaving care are among the most vulnerable in society, and the Minister also mentioned that. We are aware that young people leaving care are disadvantaged in several areas, including education, training, jobs and housing. The purpose of the Bill, as both the Bill and the memorandum state, is to improve the life chances of young people who are looked after by trusts as they move to independent living.

The Bill places a duty of care on the trust that last looked after the young person, rather than on the trust for the area that they live in. That will ensure that services follow the young person to ensure that he or she does not fall out of the loop. This measure provides continuous care.

The new arrangements will have implications for trusts, which - dare I say it - will need extra resources to implement the new arrangements. The Children (Northern Ireland) Order 1995 was seen as a forward-thinking piece of legislation and was welcomed by most, if not all, children's organisations. However, the additional money was not always made available to implement the provisions of the 1995 Order, and that had a knock-on effect on some boards and trusts.

I welcome the additional £400,000 a year for the pilot projects. We are always calling for additional money, and we should commend the Minister in this case, even though it is only a small sum for pilot projects.

We are aware that children in care and those leaving care have special needs and problems. Like the Committee Chairperson and Rev Robert Coulter, I look forward to dealing with the Bill in more detail at the Committee Stage. Go raibh maith agat.

I welcome the Bill because it addresses a commitment in the Programme for Government and because the need for such measures has been clearly identified. I hope that the Minister, the Department and the Committee will rigorously examine the legislation in order to determine its practical outworkings. The Bill provides an opportunity to eradicate one of the most distressing areas of the homelessness problem.

Members have already expressed concern about certain issues. For example, the proposed new article 34C of the 1995 Order contains the phrase "shall take reasonable steps". Who will decide that the steps are reasonable? What criteria will be used, and how will the matter be judged?

The phrase "keep in touch" is used. I hope that those words are not used in the way that some of my family members use them, when they promise to keep in touch and subsequently nothing is heard from them for a long time. It is a loose phrase, and I would like the Committee and the Department to examine further its meaning in order to ensure that it is used to a good end.

The pathway plan and the personal adviser proposals are sensible and laudable, but those powers must be exercised somewhat more rigorously if they are to be effective. As the Minister said, the legislation deals not only with 16- and 17-year-olds but also with the 17- to 21-year-old bracket. That area could be fudged, because it leaves it up to the relevant authority to decide when to cease its duty - any time before the individual turns 21. That will lead to differing performance levels. That aspect of the legislation must be examined and clarified.

In general, the attempt to avoid repeat homelessness - which has become a real phenomenon in this sector - could be helped by such proposals. I would like the problem of repeat homelessness to be eradicated because it causes great distress, especially to young people.

I welcome the approach to financial assistance suggested in the legislation. However, we must ensure that it is effective. I hope that through Committee procedures and the outworkings of the legislation, there is an opportunity to examine in detail the rent issues, especially in the private sector. What structures are in place to help individuals who, unfortunately, cannot cope with the financial constraints that have been placed on them? Quite often, those people drop out of the system altogether. More clarity is needed in that area.

Finance is an issue that rightly concerns everyone. I welcome the additional funds that will be made available, but we should consider the full effect on the public purse should that issue not be addressed. Is it possible to find out what the cost will be to the Health Service and other services, and to the public purse in general, if the many problems created by homelessness manifest themselves later in people's lives? A few pounds spent wisely on insuring that those problems are dealt with now could mean major savings to the public purse in the future.

I hope that at the various stages of the Bill, particularly at Committee Stage, an undertaking will be given to consult with the homelessness agencies that have worked so hard to try to deal with these problems. We can benefit from their experience and ensure that this legislation is as effective as possible.

I thank Members for their interest and for the points that they have made. My officials and I wish to ensure that the Bill is effective, and I look forward to working with the Committee on the later stages of the Bill. The new arrangements will be supported by resources already deployed in this area of work, and by resources transferred from the Department for Social Development in relation to benefits.

We anticipate providing around an additional £500,000 in the coming financial year in preparation for the legislation. Further resources are likely to be needed as more young people become eligible for the new arrangements.

Under the Executive's programme and the social inclusion community regeneration fund, to which Ms Ramsey referred, some £1·2 million is being provided to develop leaving and aftercare schemes over three years, including the current year. Although not directly connected, this will include befriending and mentoring schemes and supported board and lodging schemes to provide young care leavers with a greater choice of accommodation and support and advice on health matters, to develop drop-in centres and to engage volunteers, including former care leavers, to raise awareness of leaving and aftercare services.

We will be consulting on regulations and guidance, and I assure Members that we want to include organisations connected with and working on behalf of the homeless as part of the consultation. The personal adviser will provide a key link between a young person, social services and other agencies and will have an important role in preparing the pathway plan. The detailed functions of the advisers will be addressed in the regulations and guidance that we will consult on. The pathway plan will be agreed between the personal adviser and the young person, and the Department will provide detailed guidance on how this will be conducted. Training for personal advisers will be part of the implementation process and the overall strategy for implementation, and will be drawn up by the interdepartmental group that I referred to earlier.

We intend to establish monitoring arrangements through the regional implementation group involved in the development of regulations and guidance, and it is envisaged that the voluntary sector will have a role in monitoring the operation of the new legislation. We recognise the concerns about variation between trusts, and the new legislation will be an opportunity to ensure a much higher degree of uniformity, so that the same level of support will be available in all areas.

I hope I have addressed the points raised by Members - I am not clear if others had issues that they wished to raise. My officials will also study this and provide any outstanding answers.

Oral Answers to Questions

The First Minister and the Deputy First Minister

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Question 6, in the name of Mrs E Bell, and question 11, in the name of Dr Birnie, have been transferred to the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and will receive written answers. Question 9, in the name of Ms Lewsley, question 10, in the name of Mr Dallat, and question 16, in the name of Mr McGrady, have been withdrawn and will receive written answers.

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1.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if any researchers commissioned by the Office have had preliminary access to the 2001 census statistics; and to make a statement.

(AQO 1016/01)

No researchers had, or will have, any preliminary access to the 2001 census statistics. Census statistics are not made available before official release. The 2001 census returns are in the latter stages of processing, and it is planned that the first results will be published in August 2002 in parallel with the results for England, Wales and Scotland. Census reports will be laid before the Assembly in accordance with statute.

Will the Deputy First Minister comment on research evidence, produced by Dr Shirlow recently and commissioned by the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, which exaggerates the number of people who allegedly fled from housing estates in Belfast as a result of sectarian violence? Will he also comment on the First Minister's call for a referendum, which gives the impression that he saw hopeful signs in preliminary research?

Officials immediately contacted Dr Shirlow about the reports. He said that he had been reported incorrectly and undertook to correct this in subsequent media interviews.

Dr Shirlow's work, which has been queried and contested by Mr McElduff, was not commissioned by the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. It was commissioned by the Belfast Partnership Board, and it focused on north Belfast in 1999. The project commissioned by the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister looked at different parts of the city: Short Strand and Ballymacarrett, and was from September 2001 to February 2002.

I do not believe that the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party - who made his point in that capacity - was saying that he had access to statistics. Many political representatives have speculated on what the census might reveal, not least members of Mr McElduff's own party. I prefer to concentrate on the politics of consensus rather than the politics of the census.

Will the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister say how many census forms were issued and how many were returned? I am aware that some forms were not returned because people felt that the form contravened confidentiality. How accurate will the 2001 census statistics be as a result?

Questions on the conduct and details of the census fall to the Minister of Finance and Personnel. I am tempted to respond, as the person who was Minister of Finance and Personnel at the time of the census. We were content that we had a high rate of return. Various actions were taken to follow up in cases where forms were not returned. That was the subject of various answers in the House and various indications to the Committee for Finance and Personnel.

Does the Deputy First Minister agree that speculation on the census outcome is based more on party political scaremongering than hard fact? Does he therefore agree that such speculation is unhelpful and is a distraction?

In my previous reply I referred to the difference between the politics of consensus and the politics of the census. There is not much point in speculating as to what the census figures will reveal. It is also important that we do not lose sight of the important range of information that the census will give us, and it is unfortunate that people seem to look at the census information only in relation to one subject - religion.

People are extrapolating their own political calculations and assessments from that. We should do the census the honour of waiting for the information it gives us, rather than speculating on those results.

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2.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to detail the issues on the agenda for the next meeting of the Executive.

(AQO 1015/01)

The next meeting of the Northern Ireland Executive is planned for 28 March. It is not our policy to disclose in advance the issues that will be raised at Executive meetings.

Does the First Minister intend to raise the issue of a border poll at the next Executive meeting, given that that has recently received some press speculation in this country? Does he agree that the best way to proceed would be to hold it now, rather than to link it to anyone's party-political election campaign? Then we can reaffirm the existence of the border, as opposed to putting in place institutions that deny and demean the existence of the border.

I do not intend raising that issue at an Executive meeting now, because it is a matter for the Secretary of State. I am sure that the parties represented here are perfectly capable of making their own representations to the Secretary of State.

With regard to the Member's point, I agree that it would be desirable to put an end to political speculation and scaremongering as soon as possible. In the circumstances, the Member will agree with me that the best and earliest practicable opportunity will be May of next year.

With regard to the effective meeting and working of the Executive, can the First Minister tell us the requirements of the ministerial code regarding one Minister's criticising another? Did he comply with it when, as First Minister, he criticised Colleagues? Will he take an early opportunity to apologise to them for his breach of the code?

I am satisfied that I acted entirely in accordance with the nature of my role and the code.

I am sure that many Members are aware that the First Minister will normally act in the capacity of his role - that role being the Ulster Unionist Party leader, as opposed to the First Minister. Given his recent disgraceful and partisan comments - particularly those about the South of Ireland, which have received worldwide attention - will he confirm whether this matter was raised at the Executive meeting this morning? Alternatively, since he is supposed to represent most of the people here in his capacity as First Minister, does he intend to raise it at a future meeting of the Executive?

Proceedings at Executive meetings are confidential. Consequently, it would be improper for me to make any reference to what was said round the table. It would be equally improper for anyone at that meeting to brief or give interviews to the press about the subject matter. I am sure that the Member would entirely agree with me on that point.

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3.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister what plans it has to address important issues being raised by the European Convention recently established under the chairmanship of Giscard d'Estaing.

(AQO 1062/01)

The European Convention held its first meeting in Brussels on 28 February, and it is expected to continue its work for about a year. The Convention will inform the thinking of heads of government at the intergovernmental conference in 2004. We attended a Joint Ministerial Committee meeting in London on 7 March and agreed arrangements for briefing the devolved Administrations and for contributing Northern Ireland views to the development of the UK position in the Convention. There should also be scope for conveying Northern Ireland views to the Convention through the Committee of the Regions and the Convention's parallel forum. We are closely following the work of the Convention and the wider debate on the future of Europe. Consideration is being given to the best means of developing that debate here to ensure that we fully address those issues of particular relevance to us.

Will the Deputy First Minister assure us that the Assembly will have a maximal input, and in particular, that the Committee of the Centre will be able to make a full contribution to the European Convention?

Through its parallel forum the Convention has invited substantive contributions for the attention of its members. Those will deal with the future of the European Union and reform of the treaties and, particularly, with the issues addressed in the Laeken declaration. It is intended that organisations not directly represented in the Convention, including sub-national and regional authorities, will contribute to its work in that way. In addition to that, we will take into account the views of Members of the Assembly, and particularly the Committee of the Centre, when putting a Northern Ireland dimension to the Convention, the parallel forum or the UK Government.

Will the Deputy First Minister say what efforts are being made to liaise with other devolved Administrations to ensure that regional voices are heard at the Convention?

The First Minister and I attended a Joint Ministerial Committee meeting in London on 7 March. We discussed with representatives of the Welsh and Scottish Administrations how best to work together on that. That was also subject to wider discussion in the Joint Ministerial Committee with Ministers of the UK Government. We are aware of various mechanisms that other regions are using - the so-called "constitutional" regions - to consider the work of the Convention and how best to influence it. We will further consider how to track and contribute to that work.

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4.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister what representations have been made to HM Government to tackle the practice of selling smuggled fuel, which is both damaging to our economy and a major loss of revenue for the UK Exchequer.

(AQO 1025/01)

Primary responsibility for dealing with illegal smuggling activities lies with Customs and Excise. Ministers here have made representations to the Treasury on several occasions during the past year about fuel duties and smuggling. The then Deputy First Minister and I raised this at a meeting with the Chancellor in January 2001 and at our follow-up meeting with the head of Customs and Excise. Sir Reg Empey and Mr Mallon wrote to the Financial Secretary in October 2001 again pressing that further reductions in fuel duty would be welcome along with continuing attempts by Customs and Excise to combat illegal fuel smuggling, which damages legitimate fuel retailers and is a source of income for paramilitary groups.

It is important that every effort be made to tackle smuggling head on and to address the fuel duty differential between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. We welcome the recent discovery by customs officers and the guards outside Dundalk of what appears to be the largest diesel-washing plant ever encountered. That shows the extent of the threat posed by that illegal trade to security, the environment and the Exchequer.

I take a close interest in the misuse and smuggling of fuel because of the damage it causes to legitimate petrol retail outlets in Northern Ireland. I discussed the matter last week with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) at Westminster and the Comptroller and Auditor General, Sir John Bourne, in the context of the ongoing PAC inquiry there.

With reference to smuggled fuel, does the First Minister welcome the Secretary of State's appointment of Prof Goldstock as a special adviser on organised crime, and what representations will he make to the professor about the appalling level of organised crime in Northern Ireland?

I congratulate the Member on the work of the PAC on that and on discussing it with his opposite number across the water. It is important that people realise that this problem is not confined to Northern Ireland. The equipment and technology used to wash diesel and to make it available on the black market exists in GB too, and there is reason to suspect that the gangs engaged in that business here have extended their operation across the water as well. It is important that that degree of co-operation exists.

At the same time, I welcome the appointment of Prof Goldstock; he will complement the work of the Northern Ireland Organised Crime Task Force. He is a distinguished expert on crime, with extensive experience gained from his 13 years as director of the New York State Organised Crime Task Force. One hopes that the appointment will highlight how far organised crime and racketeering have infiltrated society, and how society as a whole needs to respond to it. It is not enough to leave the matter to the police or to Customs and Excise. All civil society has a responsibility to deal with organised crime.

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5.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if it intends to give a lead role in European affairs to one of the junior Ministers.

(AQO 1014/01)

We recognise the increasing importance of European matters in much of the Executive's business. It is important that the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister shows clear ministerial drive to draw together and implement an Executive-wide approach to maximise its role. The two junior Ministers have played a central role in the process and in developing a strategy to provide a co-ordinated cross-departmental approach to the European Union. Such an approach should also incorporate the views of Northern Ireland representatives on European bodies and the wider community.

A coherent and co-ordinated approach will facilitate us in our aim of ensuring that Northern Ireland takes its place as an active region of Europe, and that it participates appropriately and effectively. Any future changes in ministerial roles and responsibilities will be communicated to the Assembly.

How does the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister reconcile that reply with the ever expanding and ever more costly all-Ireland bodies and harmonisation activities? How can that be reconciled with last week's outburst by the First Minister, especially when he has pledged, through the Belfast Agreement, to create union with the European Union member state that he has criticised?

I am not sure that I can reconcile the question with the issue under discussion. The Member has made several points. In my reply to the original question, I emphasised how the Executive deal with European Union matters and I stressed the need to address all those issues in the interest of Northern Ireland. Equally, we pursue all our responsibilities and all the opportunities that arise under the Belfast Agreement in the area of North/South co-operation, not only through the implementation bodies' work, but in the other sectoral fields of the North/South Ministerial Council and, indeed, more widely. That includes dealing with some of the implications of European Union issues, which is something on which the First Minister and I have previously reported. We have reported on such matters as the institutional format and various plenary meetings of the North/South Ministerial Council. It is precisely in the context of many of the European Union issues that have been generated that it makes sense to co-operate and co-ordinate thoughts and approaches with the South.

I welcome the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister's emphasis on the importance of European affairs to Northern Ireland. I also note, however, that the Programme for Government gives a commitment to the establishment of a European Union forum. What consideration are the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister giving to the monitoring of the European Convention, which has already been established and which was referred to earlier, and to mirroring the National Forum on Europe, which has been set up in the Republic? Can the Deputy First Minister offer a timescale for the establishment of a European Union forum?

In an answer to a previous question, I said that we hoped to track the work of the European Convention fully. We have already been exploring, with other regions, how we might best influence the Convention's work. That was discussed at the Joint Ministerial Committee meeting earlier this month.

The Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is committed to ensuring that a wide range of sectors in Northern Ireland society have the opportunity to influence European Union policy, and that includes the work of the European Convention. We are considering how best to achieve that. We do not want to restrict the contribution that interested parties could make to the European Convention because there are many other wider issues as well. The Member rightly refers to the commitment to a forum in the Programme for Government, and we hope to set out our plans in greater detail in the next couple of months.

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7.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister what contacts it has had with other Departments regarding the issue of traveller contact sites.

(AQO 1060/01)

The Minister for Social Development is responsible for policy on traveller sites. The Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister has had contact with his Department on some related issues, including responsibility for transit sites, provisions outlined in the draft housing Bill and illegal encampments.

In Omagh there are two permanent accommodation traveller sites, one in Ballyinamullan and one in Tattykeel. However, occasionally we have a problem with transit travellers who come to the Gortrush industrial complex. Will the Minister agree to expedite proceedings to address the problem of establishing transit traveller sites in provincial towns such as Omagh, or other towns across Northern Ireland, which have this problem?

As I have stated, traveller accommodation is a matter for the Department for Social Development. The Minister for Social Development is minded to transfer responsibility for traveller transit sites to the Housing Executive, and provision to facilitate this has been made in the draft housing Bill. The First Minister and I agree with this approach, and we were eager to see it. It is important to ensure that appropriate and sufficient accommodation is provided for travellers throughout Northern Ireland.

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8.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister whether a formal reply has been made to the review of the Parades Commission.

(AQO 1029/01)

We have not jointly replied to the review on the Parades Commission.

Does the First Minister agree that the improvement of community relations and the economic regeneration of Northern Ireland will be helped only by a complete and robust review of the Parades Commission legislation? Does he agree that the current legislation should be replaced with a fair and common sense approach based on proper respect for the principles and human rights contained in articles 9 and 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights?

I would add article 17 to that catalogue. These are matters to be addressed, but the first points that the Member made about what could be achieved in tourism, economic matters and community relations show the prize for everyone in Northern Ireland if we can find a way of resolving this issue so that it does not continue to pour so much poison into community relations and to damage in so many ways prospects for the development of tourism. Whether the review on community relations can contribute to achieving that goal is another matter, but it is not something that we can hive off to other people. We all ought to be aware of what could be achieved, particularly with regard to community relations, if our society could come to an accommodation on how to deal with the issue.

Is it not amazing that Mr Trimble, the First Minister, has stated today that the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister has not put in a response to the review? He then says that the matter will have to be dealt with. If the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister cannot agree a response, there is little hope for an agreed response in Northern Ireland. Surely their failure in this instance is evidence of a failure of their Office to operate, and their inability to work together, to bring forward issues.

I find it difficult to treat that "crocodile tears" question in any way seriously. There is a serious issue here. The Member knows very well the extent to which the issue is divisive. I stated in my response to Mr Dalton's question the desirability of getting our society to resolve the matter. Mr Poots cannot sit on the sidelines on it.

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