Oral Answers to Questions

First minister and Deputy First Minister

I shall give advance notice that the first question to the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure will not be taken. Members may be aware that Mrs Nelis's husband has been seriously injured, and she is unable to attend today.

1.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if it intends to introduce a "publican's defence" clause into the single equality Bill.

(AQO 831/01)

7.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister what assessment can it make in relation to the concerns raised by the Federation of Retail Licensed Trade and Northern Ireland Hotels Federation about their statutory duty to "preserve order" on their premises and about the draft single equality Bill; and to make a statement.

(AQO 840/01)

We wish to take question 1 and question 7 together.

No decisions have been taken as to what provisions will be included in the single equality Bill. A policy paper setting out our proposals will be issued for consultation by the end of the year. Many licensees contend that an exemption is needed in anti-discrimination law to protect them against claims of discrimination in which they state that they are acting to preserve order as required by licensing laws. We shall take those views into account when forming our proposals.

I am encouraged by that response. By way of assistance, I suggest that the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister give serious consideration to including, in the single equality Bill, section 15(2) of the Equal Status Act 2000 in the South of Ireland. That might help to alleviate the problem.

Do the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister recognise the need for some degree of mediation or arbitration to be facilitated when there is a dispute over admission, rather than it ending up in court, as happens at present? That is unsatisfactory and somewhat expensive.

The Member has asked us to consider section 15(2) of the Republic of Ireland's Equal Status Act 2000, which provides an exemption from anti-discrimination law for action taken by, or on behalf of, those who are licensed to sell alcohol when they are acting in good faith to ensure compliance with the licensing laws. The Republic of Ireland has a general provision, similar to that in our current legislation, which provides that nothing in the Equal Status Act 2000 shall be construed as prohibiting any action taken under any enactment. When forming our proposals, we shall consider the impact of the exemptions in the Republic and the experiences there.

The Member said that he was encouraged by my response. We shall take those issues into account. However, that will not predetermine our conclusions. I do not want anything to be misunderstood or misrepresented. It would be wrong for me to speculate on any measure that might be taken on mediation at this stage in advance of court action. However, we accept the Member's point.

Question 7.

The Minister has already made it clear that he is grouping questions 1 and 7 together, and has had leave to do so. This is your opportunity for a supplementary question - if you wish to take it.

That was a misunderstanding.

Does the Deputy First Minister acknowledge that members of the Northern Ireland Hotels Federation and the Federation of Retail Licensed Trade wish to ensure that no one would be discriminated on grounds of religion, sex, political opinion or disability, and does he acknowledge that there is concern at the number of weak cases supported by the Equality Commission? I understand that about 80% of such cases have been lost, and others have been settled out of court to avoid legal costs.

Will he advise the House what financial penalty exists for those who take costly legal cases without having supporting evidence?

We are aware of the representations that have been made by the licensed and hotel trades. As I have said, we shall consider all the relevant issues as we prepare the single equality Bill. However, I am not in a position to speculate on any issues pertaining to the Equality Commission's possible involvement, under the single equality Bill, in any cases that may be taken. We are looking at what the single equality Bill should provide for, and our focus should be on those legislative arrangements.

Will the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister accept that the proposed single equality Bill will put publicans under intense pressure to stop unruly elements from creating havoc on their property? It should be made clear that publicans should have the right to bar anyone. For example, someone wearing a Celtic top who walks into a bar full of Rangers supporters could, and probably would, lead to a breach of the peace.

Order. I am referring to the Chamber, not to the job of publicans.

The Member's reference to the single equality Bill as it stands is somewhat erroneous. As has been indicated before in the House in answers from the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, the single equality Bill has not yet come before the House. In relation to the matters under discussion, we have to take account of the requirements under licensing legislation that publicans ensure good order on their premises. We want to be certain that we take care to ensure that there are no breaches of the peace. We also want to make sure that the single equality Bill will be effective as an equality measure and will provide for common sense legislation in respect of all other considerations.

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2.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister plan to tour West Tyrone soon.

(AQO 825/01)

We have no plans to make a joint tour of West Tyrone in the near future.

I am slightly disappointed. Should the First Minister decide to visit West Tyrone, he will find that Ulster Unionists there are focused on their Unionism, despite being the minority community in the west. Indeed, the First Minister should also know that, during any visits that I make to Ulster Unionist Party groups in West Tyrone, I and they do not waste our time discussing any form of united or agreed Ireland, as some others have suggested.

In the event of a visit to West Tyrone, will the First Minister give me an assurance that he will take time to address the concerns of groups representing victims of terrorism in the west? Republican terrorists are still actively targeting members of those groups.

I am glad to receive the assurance from the Member that in his branches and association, local Unionists are not discussing any form of united or agreed Ireland. I was astonished at the claim made by a leading member of the DUP that that was happening. I wonder whether he has any evidence, and whether he would care to produce it. I dare say it is like so many things that we hear from that quarter - assertions without evidence.

Victims' groups and individual victims from West Tyrone have played an important role in research recently carried out into service provision for victims. Officials from our Victims Unit have visited a number of victims' support groups in the area during the past year and assisted with a variety of issues. A capacity- building programme to help victims' groups increase their expertise in seeking and securing funding was recently completed, and several groups in the area participated.

On the question of the continuing targeting of individuals by paramilitary organisations, I am sure that Members will join with me in congratulating the police and security forces on their success in the neighbouring area of Coalisland this morning.

Hear, hear.

I have noted with some concern in recent weeks that questions of a very open kind have been tabled concerning constituencies. The supplementaries to those questions seem to bear little relation to the constituency concerned, which must disappoint the constituents. However, there is another dilemma about such questions open to the constituency alone. If there are only two further supplementaries, I am in the invidious position of discriminating against some Members or parties from that constituency, and it is not the Speaker's place to do so.

I shall look carefully at the matter of open questions on constituencies, especially when they are not followed by supplementaries that are truly relevant. On this occasion, I shall permit all the parties that are represented in that constituency to have a supplementary question.

I am glad that the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister have no intention of touring the constituency of West Tyrone. They should now be aware of the insult that they delivered to the Unionist community last week when they both displayed Republican tactics by boycotting and abstaining from the vote on the provision of a memento for the primary schoolchildren of West Tyrone to mark the Golden Jubilee. Will the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister take this opportunity to apologise?

Order. I rule the question out of order, since the Member clearly ignored what I expressly said.

I assure the Speaker that my question is on a bread-and-butter issue. Given the high levels of unemployment in West Tyrone, can the Minister assure us that all industrialists - [Interruption].

Order.

May I start again, Mr Speaker? Given the high levels of unemployment in West Tyrone, can the Minister assure us that all industrialists who are interested in setting up in Northern Ireland are being encouraged to visit West Tyrone, and that they are being given every incentive to locate there? I particularly refer to my home town of Strabane, which has been plagued with high levels of unemployment for years.

Order. That is a question for the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment. However, as the First Minister appears to be ready with a response, I would hate to deprive him and the House of delivering it.

When questions of an open character are tabled, the Office looks around the horizon - from a West Tyrone perspective, in this case - to ensure that there are answers for likely questions. In this case we are similarly positioned. I have been informed by the IDB that it takes a keen interest in these issues, and 14 of the 16 inward investment projects initiated during 2000-01 were in New TSN areas.

Since April 1999, the IDB has introduced 36 potential investors to West Tyrone, and it has secured new inward investment courtesy of a £1·2 million project by Fabplus. The company will manufacture sprinkler systems in Strabane creating 30 jobs. I am sure the Member is familiar with the project. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment is focused on that, and it is one of its principal concerns.

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I am pleased to be associated with the First Minister's rejection of the hollow claims made by the DUP. When the First and Deputy First Minister consider a visit to West Tyrone, will they seriously consider visiting Castlederg, which has a tense community relations problem that we are endeavouring to resolve? I feel that a visit from the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister would go some way to helping to resolve that tension.

I am familiar with Castlederg, having been there on several occasions. I am aware that, during the course of the troubles, the village of Castlederg has experienced a significant number of fatalities - of murders. I suspect that if that were calculated on a per capita of the population basis, Castlederg would emerge as one of the worst affected parts of Northern Ireland.

Against that background, I am not surprised that there are some feelings and tensions in the area. It is our hope that those tensions will be ameliorated as we see progress towards establishing a commitment to exclusively peaceful and democratic means, through the continued operation and success of this institution. In the long run, that holds the best hope for the entire community, including the people of Castlederg. We shall consider the matter that the Member has mentioned.

Further to that, I invite the Minister - [Interruption].

This is an opportunity for the Member to put question 3, which stands in his name.

3.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if it will consult with President Mary McAleese on an honours system that would be appropriate and fitting for Irish nationally- minded citizens.

(AQO 843/01)

We have no plans to consult President McAleese on that issue.

I wish to record my great disappointment that the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister has consistently underplayed the North/South element of the Good Friday Agreement. I ask the Minister to work with President McAleese to ensure that the profile of the President's Award - the challenge to the young people of Ireland between the ages of 15 and 25 - is increased in the North, because the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is not doing anything to ameliorate the cold house for Nationalists in the North.

I reject any allegation that the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is in any way undercommitted to North/South arrangements. On previous occasions, we have answered questions on the institutional format, and we have made it clear that we are committed to ensuring that the North/South arrangements work in a full and effective way across a range of issues. Those include looking at - as we did in the institutional format - extending areas that would come under formal co-operation and, therefore, the accountability mechanisms that attach to the North/South Ministerial Council. To develop matters in those ways hardly implies a lack of commitment.

The Irish Government have considered the matter of honours on several occasions, going back to 1930. It has always been felt that any honours system could be introduced only on a cross-party basis. It has been the subject of discussion in the Dáil, including during the current session, and the matter is one that the Government and other parties are addressing. An honours system, as such, is not a matter for the President, and I hope that the Member recognises the significance of article 40 of the Constitution of Ireland, because I certainly do.

With respect to any other issues, our Office remains open, positive and encouraging to anyone interested in promoting activities in, or participation from, Northern Ireland.

I am speaking as an Irish nationally- minded citizen - that is honour enough in itself, and I seek no further reward or award. However, does the Minister agree that there is a place for a system to recognise the efforts of citizens on this island - their efforts to improve the quality of life and to create an egalitarian society - but that in the past some of those honours and award systems have been abused, and have been used solely to award the great and the good and the rich and the powerful? Any future system should recognise that even modest efforts by people throughout society provide a rich and powerful contribution to the cause of peace, prosperity and stability in the country.

The Republican and socialist tradition has been to oppose any system that might extend privilege or patronage. However, many people realise that it is appropriate to find ways to recognise contributions made to society. Many countries, including republics, have systems that recognise citizens' outstanding contributions and dedication.

Should the Irish Government introduce a system to recognise and reflect such contributions, many in the House and elsewhere would be happy to welcome that move. From another perspective, many people appreciate honours that are conferred differently.

Will the Minister take note of how many Irish nationally-minded citizens have been honoured by Her Majesty the Queen recently and have been glad to receive her honour?

Order.

I have no problem in noting that people have received honours under the British honour system, be they Nationalist-minded or Unionist-minded. They are entitled to accept or decline any honour offered to or conferred on them.

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4.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to make a statement on business transacted at the previous meeting of the Executive.

(AQO 833/01)

The previous Executive meeting was held on 14 February 2002, and a copy of the press release issued following the meeting has been placed in the Assembly Library.

I note the terse way in which the First Minister answered that question, given that a fortnight ago Mr Haughey refused to give any indication of business to be tabled for the next Executive meeting. I suppose the fact that the Executive have announced that a press release has been made available is something for which to be grateful.

Is the First Minister aware that anyone who can read English or Welsh can access the National Assembly for Wales web site and print out minutes of its Cabinet meetings? On 19 June 2001, in answer to a supplementary to my question about freedom of information, the then Deputy First Minister advised the Assembly that

Will the Minister advise the House when something is going to be done about freedom of information and stop muttering platitudes?

I am happy to inform the Member that Northern Ireland will be included in the UK freedom of information legislation, and it will be implemented here. On Mr Ford's general point, there is a need for confidentiality with regard to discussions in the Executive. The discussions regularly refer to policy issues, which would not be appropriate to publish.

Will the Minister comment on the Welsh situation?

I cannot comment on the discussions in Wales. Wales is an entirely different case as the extent of devolution is narrower there. It would be more to the point if a similar practice obtained in Cabinet discussions in London, Scotland or Dublin. That is not the case. The Member's question is misconceived.

In order to throw more light on the matter, can the First Minister outline the major issues that have come before the Executive since he and Mr Durkan took office in November?

Several major issues have come before us during recent weeks and months, and those are mainly in the public domain. One matter was mentioned in the rather terse press release that was issued last Thursday, which said that

It is difficult to conceive of an issue of greater importance to the Assembly and all the Departments. The spending review 2002, which will culminate in whatever decisions the Chancellor makes in the summer, is crucial. The Assembly would regard the Executive as highly remiss if they did not consider the matter, the approaches that they will make and the preparations for it. Moreover, the Assembly would regard the Executive as extremely foolish if they were to consider those matters in the full glare of publicity.

Will the First Minister tell us whether the Executive, having met on 14 February, two days after the Secretary of State called for Sinn Féin to join the Northern Ireland Policing Board, discussed the aforementioned issue? Does he agree that the absence of Sinn Féin from the Policing Board has enabled discussions to proceed without the poison that that party normally injects into public bodies, which makes it hard to reach resolutions on difficult issues? Will he tell the House whether he agrees with the call from the Irish Prime Minister that further concessions should be given to Sinn Féin to entice its members on to the Policing Board?

I am not sure if the Member's last point is accurate, but I dare say he would not allow the detail of what was or was not said to interfere with his comments.

Of course the Policing Board was not discussed at the Executive's meeting. The Executive discuss Executive business, which relates primarily to matters that are devolved to the Assembly. As the Member mentioned the matter, I am sure that, like most people in Northern Ireland, he is pleased both with the way in which the Policing Board has operated so far and with the broad party consensus that exists on it among the Member's party, the SDLP and my party. We all congratulate the DUP on the positive role that it has played and lament the fact that it has not been equally positive elsewhere.

5.

asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister how it intends to utilise the Executive Office in Brussels to assist Assembly Members and Statutory Committees in their business.

(AQO 834/01)

The new office in Brussels is a valuable resource, not only for the Executive but for Northern Ireland as a whole, and its facilities should be available to a broad range of interests. Specifically, the Brussels office will assist Assembly Committees in conducting inquiries that have a European dimension.

To date, the Committee for Enterprise Trade and Investment, the Committee of the Centre and the Committee for Regional Development have used the office during visits to Brussels. Officials based in the office assisted those Committees by arranging meetings with relevant contacts in Brussels and by providing advice on the organisation of the visits. The Committee for Finance and Personnel has approached the office about a further visit in the spring, and the Brussels office will welcome any other Statutory Committee that wishes to visit. The office will also assist Committees by providing factual information on request about European Union institutions, procedures, policies and laws. Individual Members who visit Brussels may wish to contact the office for advice and information about the facilities available.

It is good to see that so many Committees have been using the office. Are there any plans for the Agriculture Committee to use it? We all know how important agriculture is to the Province, and I would welcome the Committee's having an opportunity to use the office.

I mentioned the Committees that have already been in contact with the office. They have either already used it or are planning to do so. The Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development was not one of those that I mentioned. The Committee must determine whether it wants to visit Brussels, and, if so, whether it wants to avail itself of the useful facilities that the office provides.

In the run-up to the establishment of the office in Brussels did the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister have any contact with the Northern Ireland Centre in Europe? I understand that it did not. If that and various other reports on the office are examples of its networking abilities, it could become a costly and futile initiative.

The Northern Ireland Centre in Europe ceased to operate in Brussels some time ago, which I regret. It would have been helpful to see a more seemly transition between the arrangements that the Northern Ireland Centre in Europe was providing and the current arrangements through the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Brussels.

We now need to progress on that basis, to maximise the potential benefits of the Office of the Northern Ireland Executive in Europe and also to maximise the effectiveness of our dealings with European issues here. The Executive and a range of Departments are dealing with European issues in a detailed and technical manner, and we must also involve other local groups and interests. The Northern Ireland Centre in Europe can contribute to that.

I regret that some Members were unable to put further questions today, owing to a particularly large number of questions, including supplementary questions. The time for questions to the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is up.

Culture, Arts and Leisure

There will now be questions to the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure. I remind the House that question No 1, in the name of Mrs Nelis, has been withdrawn. She cannot be present today as her husband has experienced an accident.

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2.

asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure what steps have been taken by his Department to preserve and protect the cultural heritage of East Belfast.

(AQO 829/01)

I want to begin by acknowledging the rich and diverse range of cultural heritage in East Belfast such as its world-famous shipbuilding heritage, HMS Caroline, Craigavon House, and the great writer CS Lewis - to name but a few. The preservation and protection of the area's cultural heritage are matters for bodies from both the public and independent sectors. The Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure's primary role is to provide jointly, with the Department of the Environment, the strategic framework for the preservation of the cultural heritage of the whole of Northern Ireland. At a local level, the cultural forum that my Department established to bring together a range of relevant public bodies has already provided direct assistance to district councils preparing cultural strategies in the context of local integrated plans.

Order. It is difficult to hear the Minister over the conversations that are taking place in the Chamber.

The Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure is working with the National Museums and Galleries of Northern Ireland and Belfast Industrial Heritage, among others, to preserve and promote East Belfast's unique industrial heritage through the creation of a museum of sea and sky. The Titanic will be one of the key themes. The Department of the Environment has already listed some of the historic buildings and dock installations in the area known as Titanic Quarter. I hope that East Belfast will play a full role in the Imagine Belfast bid for the city to be named European City of Culture 2008, which has received significant funding from my Department. The competition closes next month, and Belfast has a strong case.

I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. However, is he aware of public concern over the disposal of Ormiston House, the home of Viscount William James Pirrie, who built the Titanic, of Little Lea, the boyhood home of CS Lewis, and of Cabin Hill, where the first Northern Ireland Cabinet met? Is he fully aware of the proposed development of the Cherryvalley nursery, which threatens the whole river corridor in that historic area? Will he bring his considerable influence to bear on the requisite authorities to ensure that public concerns on those issues are finally allayed?

I am aware of some of those issues. However, preservation of historic buildings, such as Ormiston House and Cabin Hill, is outside my remit. Those are listed buildings under the Environment and Heritage Service, which is a section of the Department of the Environment. Protection of those buildings would therefore be its responsibility.

My Department could, however, become involved in the future use of those houses in a heritage role, it that were proposed. As things stand, the matters that the Member mentioned are primarily for the Department of the Environment, the Planning Service and the Environment and Heritage Service.

3.

asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure what action he is taking to increase salmon stocks in the River Bush.

(AQO 851/01)

The Department has been aware for some time of concerns over the decreased number of salmon returning to the river as a result of the reduction in the numbers of adult fish returning to spawn in the river. That reflects a general trend of falling stocks across the north Atlantic.

Several measures have been pursued in the last few years to increase stocks, and more are planned this year. First, the river will be stocked annually with hatchery- reared smolts. Those ranch salmon provide good angling on the lower stretches of the river, although they are not allowed to migrate upstream to spawn, as they may detrimentally affect the international salmon research project that is being undertaken on the river.

Secondly, a programme of increased in-river stocking with hatchery-reared salmon fry and parr is scheduled to commence in spring 2002. That will yield increased numbers of smolts going to sea, which should increase the number of adult fish returning to the river.

Thirdly, the marine survival of salmon is a major concern. To help to address that locally, I recently obtained £1·5 million from the Executive programme fund for a voluntary scheme to buy out coastal commercial salmon netting entitlements. That should increase the number of adult fish returning to Northern Ireland river systems, including the River Bush.

Finally, a river warden has been recruited specifically for the River Bush to tackle poaching problems and to assist in upgrading habitat to provide additional spawning opportunities for returning fish. Those measures show that the Department is implementing major measures to increase stocks in the River Bush.

Are the interests of tourism, the River Bush or anglers served by scientists continuing to develop fin clip numbers between Bushmills hatchery and the river mouth, whilst continuing to neglect the restocking of the river to any significant degree by introducing wild salmon fry?

In 1983-84, wild salmon stocks in the River Bush were at a record low. Could the actions that were taken to correct the situation then be employed now, as stocks are at an all-time low, just as they were in 1983?

Although I do not have the exact figures for 1983, I know that stocks, particularly wild salmon, are declining. Several measures are in place to try to address that, of which buying up nets is one. The continuous angling development programme, which follows on from the salmon enhancement programme, is designed specifically to carry out improvements in the habitat. The salmon management plan, a scientific programme that sets spawning targets in the catchment area to ensure that the spawning levels are maintained, is a further relevant measure. There are also restrictions on exploitation.

Bag limits have been introduced. From 1 June 2002 until the end of the season, a limit of two fish a day will be permitted. Prior to that, all fish caught will be returned. I mentioned the role of the warden on the river. There is also the River Bush project, which is an internationally- renowned scientific project to examie the marine survival of salmon. The River Bush is used as an index river in that project. A great deal of work is ongoing.

Those measures are designed to address a combination of factors, which means that wild salmon stocks are reducing. It is estimated that they have reduced by around 50%. That fills us with concern, and we want to address the matter. However, the unknown factor of the ability of salmon to survive in the north Atlantic is outside our control. Evidence suggests that matters such as temperature increases and pollution are also having a seriously adverse effect.

I welcome the Minister's initiative to support the salmon population. He will be aware that a slurry or silage effluent spill can undo much good work with one blow. Several technological advances have been made in the reprocessing of farm waste. Would the Minister's Department support initiatives advanced by the farming community to introduce some of those methods in Northern Ireland?

The short answer is yes. It is no secret that pollution presents a major problem, not only in the numbers of fish that are killed but in the damage that it causes to the habitat. The Department would support all reasonable measures proposed by the farming industry or by any sector to deal with slurry waste entering and polluting the river systems.

On a positive note, no fish were killed in the River Bush last year. However, as Mr Leslie is aware, other rivers were not so fortunate.

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4.

asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure, pursuant to AQO 399/00 and AQO 420/01, to give an update on plans by the NI Sports Council to recognise darts as a sport.

(AQO 848/01)

The Sports Council's officers' recognition panel met on 3 December 2001 and reaffirmed previous decisions that darts is not an activity that they wish to formally recognise as a sport. I refer the Member to the answer given to AQO 420/01 on 26 November 2001, and repeat that darts has not so far been recognised as a sport, on the grounds that it involves insufficient physical activity. Recognition per se would not lead to funding; it would simply allow access to funding. In the circumstances, I suggest that funding by sponsorship should be pursued.

Through you, Mr Deputy Speaker, and in the immortal words of John McEnroe "you cannot be serious". The Minister rightly defined sport as "all forms of physical activity". Does he not agree that darts, insofar as it concerns the body as opposed to the mind or the spirit, relates to throwing, which is a physical exercise. In some games a ball is thrown; a punch is thrown in boxing, and those are recognised sports. Dart players throw darts. Should the Minister not take up this discriminatory ruling and pursue it with the full vigour of his office to ensure that those who participate in the worthy sport of darts - tens of thousands of players in Northern Ireland - get the recognition that they duly deserve? In so doing, he might request action -

Mr Close, you come very close to making a speech.

My earlier question referred to equality and discrimination. Surely to goodness the Minister would not wish to see action taken through the equality Bill?

It is not the first time that the Assembly has heard Mr Close's impassioned plea on behalf of darts. I could throw "You cannot be serious" back to him.

Would that be a physical throw?

Or a rhetorical one, whichever Mr Close wishes. I appreciate the case that he makes, but it is out of my hands. The sports councils of Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales come together and determine whether a sport is recognised. They have met several times to discuss the issue of darts, and each time, darts has been recognised as a game, a pastime or a hobby - but not as a sport. The game is played in any pub in the land and it is enjoyed by many. However, the central thrust seems to be that a sport has access to lottery funding. I reiterate that an activity's recognition as a sport does not guarantee its funding. There are other criteria, not least of which are sporting priorities.

However, there are other avenues of funding to pursue. It would be wrong of me to ask the Sports Council to skew the criteria that it uses to define a sport - that is to say as a sufficient physical activity - in order to allow darts access to another funding stream. Sponsorship from brewery companies is a ready source of funding.

5.

asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to outline (a) his policy on the use of tobacco advertising and sponsorship in motorcycling; and (b) any discussions he has had with the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety on the issue.

(AQO 849/01)

Ideally, I would like tobacco advertising and sponsorship of motorcycling to be eliminated. However, I recognise that the sport needs that advertising and sponsorship to survive. Unfortunately, alternative sponsorship is rare, and that is why motorcycle sport continues to rely almost exclusively on tobacco sponsorship.

Responsibility for any decision to ban or restrict tobacco advertising and sponsorship in sport lies with the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety. Although I have not had any discussions with Minister de Brún, I know that a private Member's Bill that will extend to Northern Ireland is moving through the legislative process.

The Minister's acceptance of tobacco sponsorship and his dealings with the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety disappoint me. I specifically mentioned motorcycling because of that sport's recent acceptance of sponsorship from the tobacco industry. My concern applies to all sports that accept sponsorship from that source.

Does the Minister agree that, in view of the 3,000- plus deaths in Northern Ireland from tobacco-related illnesses and the enormous unnecessary costs to the Health Service - [Interruption].

There is a good deal of background conversation, which makes it difficult for me to hear the Member. I remind Members that, if they wish to hold a prolonged conversation, there are many other rooms in the Building.

Does the Minister agree that, in view of the 3,000-plus smoking-related deaths in Northern Ireland and the enormous unnecessary cost to the Health Service, his Department should take remedial measures to stop the promotion of tobacco and other health-damaging products during sporting activities?

Tobacco sponsorship has all but disappeared, and motorcycling is the last sport to avail of it. I would support a ban on tobacco advertising, provided that there were some lead-in time to allow the sport to seek alternative funding. As things stand, if a ban were introduced tomorrow, that would have a major effect on motorbike racing; for example, short- circuit motorbike racing would face great difficulties and could disappear.

The Westminster Government introduced a Bill to ban all tobacco advertisement and sponsorship by July 2003. That Bill was overtaken by the general election. However, the private Member's Bill, which replicates the Government's Bill, is working its way through Westminster. It will set a deadline of October 2006 for the ban of all tobacco advertising.

The Government's original Bill had derogations for snooker and Formula 1 racing. We do not have Formula 1 racing in Northern Ireland, and little snooker is played. The private Member's Bill would end the derogations. Therefore, the Member has referred to a process that is already under way and that may take care of the problem that he identified. If it does not, the issue can be debated again in the House. However, it is a matter for central legislation. It is important to have a standardised means of addressing such issues in the United Kingdom.

I would support - and I doubt whether anyone in the House would oppose - such a ban.

I have been a reformed smoker for some 20 years. Does the Minister agree that cigarette sponsorship of any sport undermines the campaign to improve the health of our citizens? Will he ensure that the Westminster legislation is relayed to the Assembly so that it can lend its support to that initiative?

I am happy to circulate the details of the proposed legislation to Members.

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6.

asked the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to detail any discussions he has had with his counterparts in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland regarding a joint bid to host the European football championship in 2008.

(AQO 850/01)

There has been no formal contact with either Scotland or the Republic of Ireland at ministerial level on this issue. This is a matter for the football authorities concerned, and the Irish Football Association (IFA) has consistently indicated that it has no plans to seek involvement in a joint bid because of the lack of suitable facilities. Given those circumstances, it would have been inappropriate for me to intervene.

The establishment of a national stadium is a key issue that is central to such a bid and to the development of a soccer strategy in Northern Ireland. Following the end of the strategy's consultation period on 31 January, I will consider the issue more closely with the other sports that may be involved.

It is disappointing that nothing is happening at this stage. Does the 2008 championship not represent what is possibly the last opportunity to get a national stadium under way in Northern Ireland? Given the affection that Members on the Minister's side of the House have for Scotland, and the affection that Members on the other side of the House have for the Republic - although some follow Glasgow Celtic - is it not time that we made the most of the opportunity to join with the bid that is being submitted by the two other football associations?

First, I do not regard this as the last chance to establish a national stadium. It would not be right to expend considerable sums of money and resources that we do not have simply to race to join in with a soccer tournament. The IFA is football's governing body, and this matter is its responsibility. The Scottish Football Association (SFA) approached the IFA, which stated that it was unable to make a joint bid because it did not have the adequate facilities.

The criteria for the bid must also be considered. Eight stadiums, each with 30,000 seats, are required. Scotland would provide six stadiums; it already has four stadiums and it will upgrade a further two. The Irish Republic, which is joining the bid, would provide two stadiums. The last date for joining the bid is the end of February, so the timescale has been too tight. In addition to that, while I do not wish the bid to fail, there is no guarantee that the joint bid by Scotland and the Irish Republic will succeed in 2008. They face stiff competition.

This opportunity will arise every four years. We will become better informed as to how to make progress through the process of considering the establishment of stadiums, the soccer strategy, and the needs of other sports, whose strategies will help us to determine their needs. A substantial investment would be needed. A brand-new 30,000-seater stadium would cost some £60 million. The cost of land and site works, and running costs of about £2 million a year would be added to that. The refurbishment of the existing Windsor Park and support for other existing stadiums would be a much cheaper option.

We must ask the sports involved whether this is how they would want us to spend £60 million. Refurbishment seems to be the best way to achieve such facilities at the lowest cost, while dealing with the needs of the sports involved. This matter involves football, but it also concerns rugby, Gaelic football and athletics. Those sports' long-term needs must also be addressed.

The Minister's answer was so thorough that I will have to change my supplementary question. In the light of the difficulties that the Department is facing, and as a goodwill gesture, will the Minister consider inviting the increasingly successful Republic of Ireland World Cup team on a courtesy visit to Northern Ireland to promote some of the work that we are trying to achieve through the soccer strategy?

Such invitations are a matter for the Irish Football Association (IFA), but I will certainly take the suggestion on board and will discuss that matter with the IFA. The IFA is constantly looking for international teams to visit Belfast. The facilities at Windsor Park preclude some teams from playing here, but the hosting of major international matches at Windsor Park is the best and surest way to ensure that the Northern Ireland team reaches the required standard to take part in the next Union of European Football Associations (UEFA) European championships in 2004.

Can the Minister confirm that last week a spokesman for the IFA gave a frosty reception to any suggestion of involving the IFA? Can he also confirm that UEFA's rules clearly state that it will not accept a bid from more than two countries?

I am not aware of any such statement from the IFA. However, I can confirm that the IFA indicated to the Scottish Football Association that an expression of interest would be forthcoming, but that the IFA was not able to go forward because it considered the prospect of participating in a joint bid to be impractical due to the lack of appropriate facilities. If my understanding of the situation is wrong, I will try to find out more and write to the Member on the matter.

I do not believe that there is any limit on the number of partners in a bid. There can be more than two - in fact, UEFA was looking for partnership bids rather than single-country bids. I understand that one of the strongest bids being put forward for the 2004 rounds comes from Scandinavia, which includes Denmark, Sweden and Norway in a joint bid.

Does the Minister agree that Windsor Park can continue to be the national stadium, and that the soccer strategy that is being presented for consideration by the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure and the Department should be in place before any new national stadium goes ahead?

I agree. The football and Gaelic sports strategies are being finalised, and we must also examine the strategies for rugby, athletics and other interested sports. There is no reason to rule out the redevelopment of Windsor Park. The resource implications of such matters must be considered, and it is a question of whether it will be more cost-effective to invest in the refurbishment of existing facilities to bring them up to the required standard or to build new facilities - I have given you a flavour of the amount of money that that will involve. The redevelopment of existing sites will probably be a much cheaper option, but that matter will be finalised later.

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