I thank the Minister for her encouraging answer. As she may know, the reason that I asked that question was that I have been approached by a number of patients who have been on the waiting list for one or two years. The Minister has answered the question, but, for the record, does she agree that such waiting times are unacceptable?

We have said that everything must be done to ensure that we tackle the considerable question of waiting lists and waiting times in the specialities. This is no exception. However, consultant neurosurgeons represent only one element of the service provided, albeit a critical element. They depend on adequate support from anaesthetists, nurses and technical colleagues in providing the service. They also need adequate access to theatre facilities. Currently the five consultants in post have limited theatre access due to deficiencies in support staff. That is another element that we will be addressing urgently.

The Minister is aware of the dangerous situation that we have in neurosurgery in the Royal Victoria Hospital, which is also the main trauma hospital for Northern Ireland. Does she accept that additional to, and closely identified with, the shortage of neurosurgeons, is the necessity for appropriately trained post-neurosurgery intensive-care nurses? We should bear in mind that some patients have recently been sent home with brain tumours - gliomas - because the proper capacity in the hospital was not there either in neurosurgeons or appropriately trained intensive-care nurses.

Order. I am going to have to ask the Minister to reply in writing to the Member, should she choose to do so.

I have already replied.

The time is up for questions to the Minister.

Will you take a point of order now or after the next set of questions?

I will take it after the next set of questions. I do not normally take points of order during Question Time, though I did make a point to Members during the last set of questions. That is why we went over the 30 minutes, though not as far over as Dr Hendron might have liked.

TOP

Finance and Personnel

1.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel, in respect of the review of rating policy, to detail (a) the current position of the review (b) when the review will be finished and (c) what consultation will take place on this issue.

(AQO 401/01)

5.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to provide an update on the review of rating policy, including the extent of the consultation process with district councils and other interested groups or individuals.

(AQO 412/01)

With your permission, Mr Speaker, I will take questions 1 and 5 together. The stage-one report covering analysis, issues and options, which is being drafted by an interdepartmental working group, will be finalised for consideration by the Executive in December. Following agreement on options to be considered, impact analysis will start before public consultation begins in around February 2002. The final report is due in July 2002.

Can the Minister give an indication that, whatever the outcome of the review, the least well-off in our society will be protected in the matter of paying rates?

The existing rate rebate scheme, as part of the social security system, already ensures that the impact of rates is lessened for those in the lower income bands, including a great number of those on fixed incomes in receipt of state pensions. I recognise, however, that many individuals who would not necessarily be considered as well off fall just outside the parameters of the rebate scheme as it currently exists. The review will address that difficult problem directly. The question of equity within the system is central to the review process.

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Will the Minister consider compensatory measures for those citizens living west of the Bann - where there is a marked deficit of services - in any new rating review?

The review of rating policy will examine how the rating system is structured and how rates are levied. It will try to ensure that equity is more strongly reflected in the new regime. However, when looking at rate levels, as they are levied across council districts, analysis shows that high rates tend to occur in district council areas that are more affluent while low rates tend to occur in less well-off areas. Departments and councils organise and provide services in different ways, and therefore there is no means of directly relating rates to local services.

Everyone welcomes the review of rates in Northern Ireland. However, it is important to consult with various agencies about the rates review. Will the Minister tell the House what groups and agencies he has been consulting in Northern Ireland?

An interdepartmental working group is involved in the review. Options emerging after the first stage will be subject to public consultation, and there will be no limit to the groups and agencies that may be consulted. All the groups on the Department's consultation list for the equality scheme will be canvassed for their views, given that part of the focus will be on issues of equality and targeting social need. However, it will be an open and public consultation, and the Committee for Finance and Personnel will be fully involved.

What consultation has taken place in relation to the general grant that is available to district councils? Does the Minister realise the extra burden that that will put on councils - particularly those in the west - as they will have to raise rates to keep level with existing services because of the reduction in the general grant?

This question relates to the Budget rather than the rating policy review. If the Chairperson's question is about whether there should be a review of how the resource grant is structured and how it is allocated, because the reduced funding envisaged for it in the draft Budget is having an impact on less well-off councils, then that is a matter for the Department of the Environment. That Department presides over the resource grant regime.

2.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to detail any discussions with the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety concerning the review into trust board deficits; and to make a statement.

(AQO 375/01)

I met with the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety in February, specifically to discuss this matter. It is a significant issue, which has been covered in other budgetary discussions since then. It has also been considered by the Executive, as reflected by our decisions in February, June and July.

The Minister referred to the joint committee set up in February to review the situation. Through that committee, will he and the Minister of Health address the injustice and lack of parity in services rendered by trusts? This comes about because some trusts stick to their budgets and do not create deficits: they achieve this by cutting back on services in their localities. Other trusts exceed their budgets, create deficits, and give a better service. When does the Minister anticipate that action will be taken on this, and when will the reports come from the joint committees?

The review of trust deficits has been completed, and its work was the basis for the decisions taken in June and July and the subsequent announcements and discussions in the House previously. The question of the pattern of trust deficits, and the fact that not all trusts recorded deficits, is one that Members have previously addressed. It is a question that the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety have been interested in.

It is not for me as Minister of Finance and Personnel to go into the details of specific trust decisions, or of how some trusts have taken steps to avoid deficits, whereas others have incurred deficits because of certain pressures and demands. Trusts with acute services seem to have had particular difficulty in avoiding deficits. That reflects the pattern of the pressures that those trusts are under. More detailed consideration is for the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety and her Department, and not for me.

I listened to the Minister's answer very carefully. Will he indicate what issues were raised during his meetings with the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety? Did they discuss the transfer of patients on the closure of a hospital, or indeed from one board area to another, and the financial pressures that creates for a trust? That was the case when the South Tyrone Hospital was closed, and patients were transferred to the Tyrone County Hospital.

The Member's question should be answered by the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety. Questions at this level of detailed service spend are not directly within my bailiwick as Minister of Finance and Personnel. Members will be aware, however, that allocations have been made in monitoring rounds in order to make good some of the pressures manifested as a result of previous decisions in relation to the South Tyrone Hospital.

3.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what action he proposes to take to increase the allocation of resources to marginalised communities.

(AQO 403/01)

We are addressing the needs of marginalised communities in several ways. New targeting social need (TSN) is a policy theme that cuts across all areas of activity by trying to use more of our existing resources to benefit people in greatest objective social need, including those identified by the new Noble indicators.

All Budget proposals are evaluated for their New TSN implications. The Executive are considering the future priorities that should be addressed through the promoting social inclusion aspect of New TSN, and will be announcing new priorities shortly. The social inclusion Executive programme fund has been designed to focus resources on actions against poverty, as well as on community relations and cultural diversity. In addition, social integration, inclusion and reconciliation are key priorities of the new Peace II programme.

New TSN is one of the horizontal principles identified in the Northern Ireland community support framework. It is embedded in, and will be delivered through the implementation of, building sustainable prosperity and Peace II.

Does the Minister agree that given the level of poverty in communities, and the importance of education and health in increasing life chances and quality of life in marginalised communities, the current health and education budgets are inadequate and need to be addressed?

The health and education budgets are both the subject of Executive priority consideration, as reflected in the draft Budget. That is reflected in the fact that those two Departments have received the most significant uplifts on their newly projected allocation for next year, as opposed to what was in last December's indicative allocation for next year. How Departments best target their allocations to meet their New TSN and equality obligations is a matter for the Departments themselves.

4.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what steps he has taken to ensure the development of a human rights culture within his Department.

(AQO 402/01)

The Department of Finance and Personnel promotes awareness of human rights issues to all its staff, through tailored training courses and monitoring of case law. Central Personnel Group, given its central role, has also initiated Northern Ireland Civil Service- wide specialist training for senior Civil Service staff. Business areas in the Department have carried out assessments of legislation and procedures, and audits of policies to ensure compatibility with the Human Rights Act 1998.

I thank the Minister for his answer. Will he explain to the House how promoting the human rights ethos will affect decisions on, for instance, the relocation of Civil Service jobs to allow people access to jobs closer to home? Will promoting human rights have an impact on that sort of decision?

Some of the issues mentioned by Mr C Murphy are more relevant to equality considerations and New TSN policies than to human rights as under the Human Rights Act 1998. As previously stated, equality, New TSN, the regional development strategy, efficiency and costs, for instance, are informing the work on the accommodation policy strategy review.

6.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what action he proposes to take to help alleviate the disruption caused to the legal profession as a result of the computerisation of the land register.

(AQO 409/01)

The land register has significantly increased productivity in the past year as a result of computerisation. However, an estimated 25% increase in the workload in some areas has meant that backlogs and registration delays have not improved over that time. I have asked land registrars to make proposals for substantially reducing the backlog over the next 12 months and, as part of those proposals, to consider the possibility of delaying any further extension of compulsory first registration until the backlog is reduced. That would be of considerable benefit to the legal profession. Those proposals are to be submitted to me in the next few days.

The Minister will be aware that he has had representations from the Law Society of Northern Ireland on this and that it is not only solicitors who suffer from the disruption but mortgage lenders and other financiers too. There is a backlog with proof of title for home-buyers in County Down especially, where it appears to be worse than anywhere else. It would be appreciated if easing that backlog could be speeded up.

I am aware of the representations from the Law Society of Northern Ireland, and the Committee for Finance and Personnel has also relayed details of them to me. Not all the problems are as straightforward as some of those lobbying would suggest. If all the information received by land registrars, including information from the legal profession and others working in the property field, was accurate, delays and time spent on the misplaced activity sometimes involved would be reduced.

However, the land registrars appreciate the needs of their customers and know that their customers are not only those in the legal profession. They have already made good some of their commitments in recent months to secure improvements in the short term. The focus now is on trying to ensure that underlying improvements last for the longer term.

7.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what steps he intends to take to secure further resources under the Barnett formula.

(AQO 385/01)

Officials are examining the effects of operating the Barnett formula under the resource accounting and budgeting system and discussing them with the Treasury. The case for assessing the needs of public expenditure is being examined in the context of the six needs and effectiveness evaluations being undertaken in Departments. As already stated, the 2002 spending review sets the context for negotiations on the Barnett formula with the Treasury.

I think that I have been headed off at the pass, but nonetheless I want to ask the Minister two questions.

In the future, will he perhaps consider publishing a "fool's guide" to the Barnett formula, as it is a complicated and mysterious method of establishing our Budget? Can he give more detail on how the change to resource accounting and budgeting will affect the formula, and how the six needs and effectiveness reviews will be used to support all the Barnett negotiations?

I think two questions became three; that is inflation for you. I wish the Barnett formula would work like that and give us more at the end than it started out offering.

To take the last point first, the work on the needs and effectiveness evaluations will provide the most basic and essential information for any negotiations we have with the Treasury. They are aimed at providing a clear and realistic assessment of our needs. We need to reflect that clearly in negotiations with the Treasury, and to seek a move to funding allocations which also reflect that need. In the context of the negotiations that we will face, we have to show that we are properly addressing the effectiveness issues as well. The needs and effectiveness evaluation exercises will throw up questions and issues for us as far as our own decisions and allocations are concerned, as well as issues that we will want to talk to the Treasury about.

Regarding the impact of resource accounting and budgeting, a significant issue - probably the most significant issue in respect of Barnett - is the question of capital charges and depreciation costs. Where those have been taken account of previously, as part of annually managed expenditure, they did not impact on the funds that were within our discretion under the departmental expenditure limit. With resource accounting and budgeting, they now will.

We have a very high capital base here compared to England. For example, many roads in England belong to local authorities and do not count in the departmental expenditure limits. Here, they will. Water and sewerage are not owned by central government in England and do not count under the departmental expenditure limits in resource accounting and budgeting. Here, they will. Even on the impact of resource accounting and budgeting alone, we have a significant case to argue for modification to the Barnett formula.

Regarding the publication of a "fool's guide" to the Barnett formula, we will try to produce further information and advice on its operation, not just for Members but for wider public interests. People see different reports in various magazines and periodicals that slice the issue and represent it differently.

Does the Minister agree, or will he at least consider the possibility, that if the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety were divided in two - one Department for health, and another for social services and public safety - we could perhaps attract more funding through the Barnett formula?

There is no relationship between the number and functional responsibilities of Departments and the Barnett formula. I refer again to the point about water and sewerage, which do not count towards public expenditure in Britain. What we receive from the Barnett formula does not include an allocation for water and sewerage, so we have to make provision for that out of our own resources. Commitments such as that further squeeze the Barnett formula, and for those reasons we have to look to what it is we are going to do for ourselves through rates and revenue-raising. There is more work for us in analysing those issues than there is in restructuring Departments or reallocating responsibilities, as that will make no impact on what the Treasury allocates to us.

8.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what steps he has taken to ensure that departmental procurement enhances the objectives of tackling social and economic marginalisation.

(AQO 405/01)

Although current procurement policy is driven by value for money and delivery against price, the integration of social and economic considerations in procurement offers the potential to ensure that that important activity is managed in a way that promotes and is consistent with our wider policy objectives.

I commissioned a review team to look at procurement, and it has made several recommendations. I have invited comments on the recommendations from external stakeholders by 30 November. After that date, the Executive will make a final decision.

Will the Minister give a personal commitment that social and economic issues will be kept at the centre of any departmental procurement procedures and that equality requirements will be adhered to? Go raibh maith agat.

Following on from the implementation review, one of our public procurement aims is to reduce the transaction costs so that we can re-deploy savings into vital areas of expenditure, not least to support broader social and economic policy. Although the policy of value for money will run through all areas of procurement, like letters through a stick of rock, it is also possible to achieve other multipliers, not only in the Executive's social and economic policy, but in the environmental area.

I am committed to ensuring that public procurement achieves best value for money and also contributes to social and economic policy objectives. The workings of our procurement policy will support the course of action that we take in relation to our valid economic regional objective of improving our small- to medium- sized enterprises (SMEs). We are concerned about targeting social need, tackling long-term unemployment and trying to improve working opportunities for people with disabilities. Such initiatives, as well as good environmental standards, are supported by our policy of procurement activity.

9.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel what progress has been made regarding the Senior Civil Service review.

(AQO 382/01)

The first meeting of the review team took place on Monday 5 March. Since then, the team has considered and analysed a wide range of issues and undertaken a programme of consultation with key stakeholders and other interested parties. It is anticipated that the team will submit its report to me by mid-December, before the Executive make a final decision.

Will the Minister expand on his answer and give some detail on how wide-ranging the review will be? What level of consultation will take place?

The terms of reference for the review were deliberately broad to maximise the opportunity provided by such a review. Its four aims are: to ensure that current practices and procedures for appointment to and promotion within the Civil Service facilitate the business objectives of Departments and Ministers; speedily to enhance representation in the Senior Civil Service; to address and identify obstacles to fair participation by all sectors of the community; and to match best practice in other major public-and private-sector bodies. To ensure that those aims are addressed, the review team has consulted with 39 organisations or groups that represent the voluntary and public sectors, as well as the business community. That work is almost complete. The organisations and groups consulted included Executive Committee members, the Committee for Finance and Personnel, the Equality Commission, trade unions and other groups identified in section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998. There may be further consultation on specific measures, depending on proposals that emerge from the review.

10.

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel when the accommodation review will be completed.

(AQO 383/01)

I anticipate a completion date of April 2002 for the Government accommodation review. The timetable incorporates proposals for the submission of an interim report by the consultants at the end of November.

After April 2002, who will decide which functions will be decentralised or relocated?

The consultants who are undertaking the review can only make recommendations. Once the review report is produced, the Executive will have to reach consensus on any accommodation implementation plan, taking into account the overall financial implications. That will involve value for money considerations and a range of other relevant policies, including equality, New TSN and the 2025 regional development strategy. It will fall to the Executive to bring forward proposals for the Assembly's approval. For the information of some Members, I should clarify that it is not a matter for the Department of Finance and Personnel to determine by directive what branch or division will move where. All Members should be aware that Departments have their own rights and responsibilities in those areas.

Questions 11 and 12 have been withdrawn and will receive written answers from the Minister.

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