Social Security Fraud Bill: Consideration Stage

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

The Committee has some concerns about clause 1 and the obtaining of information. However, before addressing these concerns, I thank the Minister, his officials, Committee members and the Committee staff for their contributions to the production of the Committee's report.

Clause 1 amends and adds to the investigator's powers that are provided for in a number of sections in the Social Security Administration (Northern Ireland) Act 1992. Along with clauses 2, 3, 4 and 5, it deals with the broad issue of obtaining and sharing information.

The Committee is concerned with the wording of subsection (2)(c) and the implications that it might have for honest, ordinary people who are in receipt of benefit. The possibility of infringing human rights was raised in the course of our discussions. The Committee considers that the provisions of the subsection might be seen as giving investigating officers too much power to look at an individual's financial affairs, especially before clearly establishing whether there are any grounds for believing that there may be fraudulent activity. However, the Committee accepts that the Bill provides for a code of practice that staff would have to adhere to and that the code may well deal with the points raised by it. Nevertheless, the Committee believes that it would be helpful if the Minister gave some assurances to the House.

Can the Minister confirm that the powers of investigation will be used sensitively, and exercised only after careful consideration by senior managers? In cases with grounds for suspecting organised attempts at major fraud, will the use of these powers be monitored for the purpose of conducting a review of the workings of the code of practice within three years of its introduction, and will the findings of that review be reported to the Assembly?

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. The Committee Stage of the Bill was valuable, and a number of issues that concerned the Committee were raised. These concerns, as the Chairperson pointed out, are still present. I have spoken before, both in Committee meetings and in the House, about the difficulty of obtaining benefits. We have received numerous complaints from people in the Six Counties about the way in which they are treated in social security offices. The criminalisation of people who are genuinely in need of benefits is widespread. We are now bringing in a Bill that will give the Department for Social Development more draconian powers to investigate individuals and the right to look at bank accounts with neither the permission of the person under investigation nor the need to notify them. That is absolutely disgraceful.

The entire system is geared to saving money. That may result in those who are the most vulnerable and in need being denied their entitlement to benefits - entitlement, not privilege - and there seems to be little that the Social Security Agency is prepared to do about it. Instead, we put thousands of pounds into investigating fraud, while many more thousands are not paid to those who are entitled to them. We talk about providing work for those who can do it and benefits for those who cannot, but in practice we do our best to deprive many people of the benefits that they are entitled to and need desperately.

The Committee saw the draft code of practice that was prepared on the basis of one that exists in England. Can the Minister assure me that the code of practice here will be drawn up locally and take our circumstances into consideration?

Unionist Members - and some others - seem to think that any deviation from legislation passed in London results in a weakening of the Union. The circumstances in Belfast, Derry, Tyrone and Fermanagh are different from those in Birmingham and Manchester. We should not be afraid to draw up legislation to suit our needs, rather than running, lemming-like, to copy every piece of legislation passed in England. Go raibh maith agat.

The comments made by the Chairperson of the Social Development Committee reflected accurately the views of the Committee. However, it should be recognised that the Committee did not feel that any amendments to clause 1 were necessary. Several Committee members, including myself, asked the Department's officials what they meant by the phrase "reasonable grounds". Despite what Members have said today, the Department is not being given carte blanche to plunder bank accounts or inquire into people's private affairs. In answer to a question that I posed, a departmental official made it clear that the phrase "reasonable grounds" meant that there must already be some evidence of fraud and that officials would have to examine utility bills and other information to prove that fraud was being committed.

The House must bear in mind the fact that £73 million is lost every year because of social security fraud. Most people who claim benefit are honest and are not trying to claim money to which they are not entitled. Therefore, it is incumbent on the Department to deal with fraud, so that people who claim benefit are not all tarred with the same brush. The Social Security Fraud Bill makes provision for the Department to do that.

The Bill is parity legislation. It has been said that we should not slavishly follow what happens at Westminster, but we are the net recipients of some £3,000 million in benefit payments every year. I am sure that some Treasury officials would love us to break parity, so that they could deal with Northern Ireland locally. Benefit rates in Northern Ireland could then be adjusted, and new benefit rates would not apply here. Parity legislation protects benefit recipients.

The Committee considered the Bill in detail, and officials came along to answer our questions. We raised some concerns, and - rightly - we asked what certain parts of the Bill meant. The proof of how the Committee felt about the Bill can be found on page 8 of the report, in our conclusions and recommendations. We agreed unanimously - I emphasise that we were unanimous - that the clauses of the Bill should stand. Following our investigation, during which we received explanations and assurances from departmental officials, we agreed that the Bill was necessary if we were to stop money that could be used to deal with social problems going to people who are not entitled to it.

I accept what Mr Wilson said about parity legislation. However, some of the legislation that covers Northern Ireland is completely different from that in the rest of the UK, particularly legislation that deals with human rights and equal opportunities. I expressed my concerns in Committee about the ability to delve into people's backgrounds on a whim. An official from the Department for Social Development told the Committee that the Department must carry out investigations, and that to pry into people's bank accounts, their private lives and their utility bills was a necessary part of that. There was no mention of a person's right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. I have grave reservations about that aspect of the legislation. We accept that social security fraud occurs and that it must be eliminated. However, we hope that the Department shows as much resolve in ensuring that other errors are stamped out.

Last year, the Comptroller and Auditor General told us that Social Security Agency offices did not communicate with each other. When the Department received a form that stated that a claimant was in receipt of other benefits, employees did not check to find out if that was the case.

Departmental irregularities exist that account for many errors in the system. During the Committee Stage consideration of the report, I asked the departmental official about benefit uptake. He said that the Department had no money to spend on benefit uptake because it was too busy chasing fraudsters. The shoe must be worn on both feet. If we are going to go after fraudsters -

Will the Member give way?

I am almost finished.

The official said that a code of practice would be introduced. However, I am not convinced that that code of practice will protect the individual. We would like the Department to do all that it can to pursue individuals who have committed fraud, but to invade an individual's privacy is not necessarily the right approach. Article 8 of schedule 1 to the Human Rights Act 1998 states that

"Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life".

The Article accepts that the state has the right to investigate wrongdoings, but can we decide if a person is guilty of wrongdoings on the basis of an anonymous, and perhaps malicious, phone call? We must take account of such issues and ensure that they are written into the code of practice before we give our full support to the Bill.

In accepting that this is parity legislation - and to some extent it is a done deal - perhaps the Westminster Government should take into account the Northern Ireland's special circumstances. Last year, Committees debated the issue of criminal assets recovery, but this legislation does not make provision to share information with any agency, were one to be established. I accept that it is parity legislation, although I support it with great reluctance.

Will the Member give way? Is he giving way or sitting down?

Members must realise that this is not the Second Stage of the Bill, in which its principles can be debated. Members who wish to table amendments to the Bill should do so. Amendments are not necessarily tabled so that the House can divide and an amendment can be passed. They can be tabled as probing amendments in order to create a debate on the issue and to receive a ministerial response. The amendment can then be withdrawn, which is a perfectly proper way to proceed.

The opportunity to speak on the motion that the clause stand part of the Bill is proper in only two circumstances. One is to give the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee a technical opportunity to provide feedback. The other is in circumstances in which Members wish to vote against the motion that the clause stand part of the Bill, and thereby use it as a mechanism to wreck a Bill. It would be a device for wrecking a Bill, if Members wanted to do that.

I urge Members not to treat this debate as a secondary debate, or as an opportunity to make specific points that would be better made by tabling an amendment that could then be debated and receive a ministerial response. There would then be no need for the House to divide, because the Member could simply withdraw the amendment. That is the proper way to proceed. As yet the Assembly has not accumulated enough experience in legislation to be familiar with all the possibilities. I am simply drawing these opportunities to Members' attention for the future.

I thank the Chairperson of the Social Development Committee, Mr Cobain, for his broad support of the Bill. I reiterate what I have said in the House on previous occasions, and place on record my appreciation of the constructive attitude that he has adopted throughout and the assistance he has given. I acknowledge the Committee's concern about aspects of the obtaining and sharing of information provisions in the Bill, and I hope to be able to allay those concerns.

First, the Committee has recommended that the Assembly should seek assurances that the operation of safeguards relating to the obtaining and sharing of information will be subject to rigorous management checks. I am happy to provide such assurances, and can confirm that my Department will ensure that only authorised officers may make requests for information under those powers, and that they have received full training in their correct application. The number of authorised officers will be strictly limited, and they will be located in the central unit of the Department's benefits investigation service. Authorised officers who obtain information from organisations in the public and private sectors are bound by law to observe confidentiality and security at all times.

The procedures to be followed are set out clearly in the code of practice, and will be subject to rigorous management checks to ensure that they are followed correctly. Any enquiry made without good reason could lead to disciplinary action against the officer concerned. The Department's internal audit team, which is independent and entirely separate from the investigative process, will provide an extra tier of assurance. They will audit procedures to ensure that all management checks are carried out thoroughly and regularly. Periodic reports will be provided to senior managers.

Secondly, in cases where there is only a believed intention to commit a benefit offence, the Committee has suggested that the powers of investigation should be exercised only in cases of suspected organised attempts at major fraud. A wide variety of frauds are perpetrated against the benefit system. These range from the person who does not tell the Department that he has started work, or who fails to declare savings or capital in a bank or building society, to the highly organised criminal gangs involved in counterfeiting or stealing instruments of payment and running false identity frauds. The Department needs to be able to use the powers provided for in the Bill in all appropriate cases, not only in cases of organised major fraud. How the Department can use the powers is governed by a code of practice. The main requirement is that there should be reasonable grounds for suspecting that a person is committing a benefit offence or contravening social security legislation. In all cases, an authorised officer must be wholly satisfied that there is a convincing logical basis for suspecting fraud and that other, less intrusive, means have been considered and ruled out before making the decision to obtain information from a third party.

The confidentiality statement on claim forms for all benefits will clearly tell the claimants that information provided may be checked with third parties, including banks. Anyone expressing dissatisfaction about the way that an authorised officer has used the powers, or the unreasonableness of the authorised officer's actions when obtaining information, can make a complaint. The complaint procedure will be set out in the code of practice.

Members recognise the benefits of the long-established policy of parity. As people in Northern Ireland pay the same rates of income tax and national insurance contributions as those in Great Britain, they are entitled to enjoy the same rights and benefits as people in Great Britain. Parity, however, is a two-edged sword. Rights to benefits have to be matched by obligations to society. If it is right that we should enjoy the same rights and benefits as people in Great Britain, it is equally right that we should play our part in tackling the problem of benefit fraud. This is particularly so given, as I explained to the Assembly before, our dependence on subsidy from Great Britain to keep our social security system afloat. It would be patently wrong to deny my Department this useful tool in tackling fraud and to allow benefit fraud to continue when perpetrators in Great Britain can be investigated.

The Committee recommended that the code of practice should be reviewed within three years of its publication and the outcome reported to the Assembly. The Department will continually monitor the use of the powers, and benefit investigation services will report regularly to senior managers on the position. I assure Members that the Department will review the code of practice within three years and report the outcome to the Assembly.

Members have voiced some concerns. My Department is concerned about the uptake of benefits. It is important that people get the benefit they are entitled to, and my Department has committed resources to ensure that that happens. Fraud is not investigated simply because of a mysterious, miscellaneous or unknown phone call - it may be used as evidence, but it is not taken as the sole source for an investigation.

I thank Mr Sammy Wilson for his comments. He has been positive and sees exactly what we are trying to achieve through the legislation. Danny O'Connor voiced concerns about human rights. My Department is equally concerned, but we have adequately addressed that particular matter. The European Convention on Human Rights provides for instances where human rights have to be restricted, where such measures are necessary to deal with issues of public policy such as fraud.

I reassure the House and the Member that the matter has been dealt with. It is something that we are all concerned about, and it is not the intention, either wilfully or unknowingly, to infringe people's human rights. I acknowledge that people do have human rights. I also assure Mr O'Connor that my Department spends money on benefit uptake. He said that we were too busy investigating fraud and that we had neither the time nor the resources needed for benefit uptake. That is not the case. We put many resources into ensuring that people take up their benefits.

I have dealt with the code of practice, and I give the necessary assurance to the House as to the way forward.

That concludes the Consideration Stage. The Bill now stands referred to the Speaker.

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Industrial Development Bill: Committee Stage (Period Extension)

There being less than five minutes until we interrupt for Question Time, I do not propose to proceed with the next item of business, which would be the votes on the amendment and the substantive motion on the Human Rights Commission which were debated last week. As there are likely to be votes requiring record, that would take around 20 minutes, thus delaying Question Time.

Oral Answers to Questions

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Enterprise, Trade and Investment

Question No.3 has been withdrawn.

1.

asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, in light of the recent terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and the already evident onset of recession, to give his assessment as to whether the consequent volatility in world markets will have an adverse effect on business and industry in Northern Ireland.

(AQO 165/01)

No country can insulate itself from world economic events. The global slowdown, together with the terrorist attacks in the United States, have already begun to adversely affect Northern Ireland's foreign direct investment, trade and tourism. However, trade with Great Britain, and the continued strength of public expenditure, will offer some protection against the slowdown. My Department is continuing its efforts to attract investment and to promote trade and tourism.

What percentage of Northern Ireland's economic output does the Minister estimate to be dependent on foreign firms? What effect does he believe that the continuing political instability here is likely to have on existing and future inward investment? The loss of hundreds of high-skill jobs has been forecast by the local aerospace industry, and British Airways has announced plans to withdraw from the Belfast to Heathrow route. What strategies does the Minister intend to implement to deal with the consequences of those announcements, which have dealt a severe blow to the economy of Newtownabbey?

I am conscious of the impact of those events in the Member's constituency. That area, and other areas where Short Bros plc has bases, will be affected. Foreign companies in that category employ almost 70,000 people in Northern Ireland, which is a huge percentage of our workforce. At present, the United States and the Republic of Ireland are our principal employers. A total of 146 American firms operate in Northern Ireland, and they employ more than 22,000 people. About 16,500 are employed by the 165 firms from the Republic of Ireland. At a glance, this shows roughly where the strength lies.

There is no doubt that if we are not careful we could severely disadvantage ourselves. The employees of Bombardier Shorts, for example, tend to be highly skilled; therefore, should it become necessary in the long term, they would find it easier to come by other jobs. However, it is unclear what the downstream effects will be. My Colleague, Dr Farren, said earlier that a more sober assessment could not be made until we have detailed knowledge of the figures.

Does the Minister accept that it is not only international terrorism that has caused economic instability in Northern Ireland, but that our economy is affected by acts carried out by local terrorists? Does not the Minister find it disturbing that while the Government of the United States has been declaring war on terrorists, the US ambassador to Dublin attended this weekend the annual conference of IRA terrorists? Political representatives of several international terrorist groups, which the US Government have supposedly declared war on, had also been invited.

I said in an earlier response that I could make no distinction between an attack on the World Trade Centre in New York, an attack on Canary Warf, or an attack on Great Victoria Street. There is no fundamental difference. The principle is exactly the same. There now appears to be an artificial differentiation between terrorism and international terrorism.

Terrorism is international by definition. The terrorist material used here for over 30 years originated outside Northern Ireland. A significant percentage of it came from the United States, and an even greater percentage was financed by donations from people in the United States. The Member referred to the conference in Dublin at the weekend; I look forward with interest to seeing how that circle is squared. One of the resolutions passed at that conference castigated the Government of the United States for its involvement in Colombia. I found that one very hard to figure out. I will be amazed if the diplomat concerned can square that with the President's onslaught on international terrorism. I will be interested in his response.

2.

asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to detail the progress his Department has made on reducing electricity prices for domestic and business consumers.

(AQO 160/01)

My Department and the regulator are continuing to advance measures aimed at establishing the conditions for significant reductions in the price of electricity. The principal focus is on introducing increased competition, consumer choice and liberalisation into the market, and on interconnection with other competitive markets.

The Minister's response is disappointing. We had a major debate on 6 November 2000, asking the authorities and the Executive to intervene in the contracts with NIE. Households in Northern Ireland enjoy 15% less home income than homes in Great Britain, but they pay 20% more for domestic energy. Will the Minister accept that the public is becoming fatigued as it waits for progress on this issue?

I accept that the public is becoming fatigued. The contracts that the Member referred to are legally binding documents, which were entered into freely by the then Government and by various companies. The regulator has tried, over a prolonged period, to deal with this matter by persuasion. We have managed to buy down a certain percentage of the contracts with the £40 million that was given to us by the Chancellor some years ago. That took place within the last couple of months.

Contracts are contracts. Companies will not give them up voluntarily. The alternative is a buyout, which is a hugely expensive exercise. It means, in effect, the floating of a public bond. We are examining that option very closely. We are getting professional help, and the Department of Finance and Personnel is also involved. Let us be under no illusion, however. These contracts were entered into in 1991, and getting out of them will be very expensive. I have always believed that until we tackle that issue - and we must - everything else will be minimised. I hope that when the time comes, and if the Assembly is given the opportunity to deal with the matter, we will have all-round support, because it is not going to be cheap.

Other measures are being taken. The Member will be aware that the cost of fuel affects the cost of energy. We have an inefficient system using old equipment from the 1960s and 1970s. A new, state-of-the-art, gas-fired power station is being built at Ballylumford, which will use less gas to generate the same amount of electricity.

As a result of decisions taken by the Executive the week before last, we should have a state-of-the-art power station at Coolkeeragh, which will also provide cheaper electricity per unit cost. From January 2002 we hope to operate the interconnection from Scotland, which will bring more competitively priced electricity onto the market. The regulator is also conducting reviews into the transmission side of NIE's activities, and I hope that a combination of all these factors will ensure reasonably priced electricity. am acutely aware that they place Northern Ireland at a competitive disadvantage.

I listened to the Minister's answer with interest. In his initial response he mentioned that we had to get more competition into the market, and he has just elaborated on that. We also need more demand. It would be fairly straightforward to get competitive generation if we had an increase in demand. There may well be other fuels to be used in generation apart from those that he has mentioned.

Does the Minister anticipate a significant increase in demand to help him get out of this dilemma, and does he have any other sources of fuel in mind?

There are indications about what demand levels may be. Demand will not grow dramatically, and consequently - and especially if we run into any economic downturns - we will find it more difficult to get more competition into the market. When the interconnector comes on-stream in three or four months time we will have adequate generation capability. However, time marches on, and one of the power stations, Belfast West Power Station, is reaching the end of its useful life. Within the next year or so it may be dropping out of the system. There is also an application before me for another power station to be built at Kilroot in addition to the one already there.

Three sources of fuel come to mind. The first is the proposal to convert Kilroot power station to use Orimulsion, although that has significant environmental implications. The second involves the prospect of generating electricity using lignite, and the Member will be well aware of that in his own constituency. The third is the growth of renewable energy sources, particularly wind power. These three routes are still open to us, and I am conscious that there is a need for us not to be overdependant on one fuel; that has been our mistake in the past.

4.

asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to detail what progress has been made on the North/South gas pipeline, with specific reference to (a) the provision of pipeline infrastructure; (b) the linkages to towns en route; and (c) the work on Coolkeeragh combined cycle gas turbine power station.

(AQO 162/01)

7.

asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment if he will make a statement on the extension of the natural gas pipeline to the north-west.

(AQO 175/01)

I will take questions 4 and 7 together.

The Executive recently approved financial support for a Bord Gáis/Questar proposal for a gas transmission pipeline from Gormanstown, County Dublin, to Antrim, where it will connect with a pipeline to the north-west. The total grant package for this project will be up to £38 million, of which the Irish Government will contribute IR£10 million. Any linkages to towns en route will be a matter for the private sector. Consent for the construction of a combined cycle gas turbine power station at Coolkeeragh has now been granted, as has planning permission for the project.

After the initial period of capital investment, can the Minister estimate the effect that the North/ South gas pipeline is likely to have on the cost of power to industry, which is currently much higher here than in other parts of the UK?

There are a couple of issues involved. First, I am pleased with the Executive's decision because it offers choice. We are at a competitive disadvantage as most of our major competitors in the Republic, Great Britain or mainland Europe have access to natural gas. There are some industrial projects that would not have been possible otherwise, and, due to our high energy costs, the provision of natural gas to potential industrial users, not least in the Member's own constituency, will help their competitive advantage in the long term.

The Executive's decision creates the pipelines - the motorway - for the product to travel along. However, getting it to the towns and industrial users requires a further exercise, which the regulator will be shortly undertaking, to seek expressions of interest from people who wish to distribute the product into towns along the route.

The contract for the pipeline will specify that pressure reduction stations must be located no less than 5km from town gates. That means that, as far as possible, the facilities will be available to most of the major towns on the route of the line. It will then be up to the private sector to come forward with proposals to distribute the gas to all users. Through that mechanism further competition will be possible and, as the market grows, costs should reduce.

I am sure the Minister realises that I submitted my question before the Executive made their decision - a decision that I, like other Members, warmly welcome. Now that the go-ahead has been given, have the Minister and the Department worked out a time scale for the progress of the project and particularly for the development of the new power station at Coolkeeragh?

I thank Mr Neeson for his continued support for the natural gas pipeline. I can give him details of some time scales. The Electricity Supply Board of Ireland, which will be the operator at Coolkeeragh, believes that it can be competitive provided it gets into the marketplace. The contract will require gas to be at the end of the pipe by late 2004. Shortly thereafter Coolkeeragh will be able to generate electricity and sell it. Three quarters of its generating capacity will come on to the open market, and one quarter will probably be contracted. That will bring about 275 megawatts on to the open market.

Distribution of gas to the towns en route cannot take place before that because the infrastructure will not be there. However, the distribution will be market-led, and the regulator will seek interest from potential developers who wish to get a licence to distribute the gas. It will be up to the market to decide when that should be. The terms of a licence will be time specific, so people will not be permitted to get licences and not use them. Licences will be time limited to ensure that the fuel is distributed as widely and as quickly as possible.

I welcome the recent initiative to bring gas to the north-west. However, it is vital that an area of high unemployment such as west Tyrone, which includes Omagh and my home town of Strabane, has an alternative source of energy to attract inward investment. I appreciate that one cannot pressurise a company to locate in any area, but if the proper energy infrastructure is not in place, that area will not be an attractive place for investment. Will the Minister assure the House that he and the Executive will do their utmost to extend the gas line to west Tyrone?

I am aware that there used to be a gas industry in the Strabane area. The infrastructure will not be too far from Strabane as it will be in the Londonderry area and move on to Letterkenny. Ultimately, it will be necessary for a company to come forward with a proposal to allow the distribution of the product. Several Members from West Tyrone have raised that matter, so I am aware of the situation.

The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment would like to see maximum distribution throughout Northern Ireland, but one must be realistic. It is an expensive infrastructure project, and there must be at least a minimum point of demand to make it feasible. However, the Department is aware of overarching issues such as TSN that will have to be taken into account, and we will be considering those in the area of telecommunications.

I am reluctant to give the Member an undertaking that cannot be delivered. I am, however, aware that he and other Members are anxious to see the product distributed as widely as possible throughout Northern Ireland. I share that anxiety, and we will have to see what operators come forward with and react accordingly.

5.

asked the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to detail the steps he has taken to provide employment opportunities in the Down District Council area.

(AQO 188/01)

My Department, through its agencies, is committed to supporting and developing business in the Down District Council area by encouraging new business start-ups, promoting jobs by inward investment and safeguarding existing jobs. LEDU is also working in partnership with the local council and enterprise agencies to develop enterprise business development initiatives.

Like my Colleague Mr Byrne, I am disappointed that the Minister has not answered the question. Can he tell the House how many visits there have been to the Down District Council area by prospective employers over the past four months? What support will the Minister and his Department give to the private sector to provide office accommodation to attract office- based employment?

I cannot advise the Member of the number of visits that have taken place in the past four months; however, I will reply to him in writing. I can tell him that since April 1996 there have been 32 visits to the Down District Council area by potential investors. That information should be available to him as a member of the council.

It is not the normal practice of my Department to support the construction of office accommodation. Various planning issues are involved. There is also the secondary issue of whether IDB-owned land should be used for office accommodation, other than for ancillary offices for industrial work on an IDB/LEDU site. Building office accommodation would represent a significant departure from practice. There are, however, expressions of interest before the IDB for the use of certain IDB-owned sites in the Down District Council area. Those are receiving attention. The Department recently issued a development brief for the construction of a unit or units of approximately 15,000 square feet at Down Business Park, and we should have a response to that within the next few weeks.

In the Down District Council area, in Killyleagh and Saintfield in the Strangford constituency, there are many hundreds of people who have experience in the textile spinning industry. Sadly, we lost the spinning plant in Killyleagh. I am aware that incentives will vary according to the nature of a project. However, will the Minister, in principle, assure the people of Killyleagh and Saintfield and similar rural towns that there will be greater incentives to go to such towns rather than to the Greater Belfast area?

In the Programme for Government and in the New TSN proposals, large areas of Northern Ireland outside the Greater Belfast area are included. In the past year the IDB had a target of 75% of new jobs delivered for TSN areas: it achieved 76%. That covered all of Northern Ireland.

There was significant lobbying about the situation in Killyleagh and Saintfield - not least from the Deputy Speaker and Members. Significant numbers of people in those areas found themselves victims of the huge downturn in the textile industry. The Department did not sit idly by. The Kurt Salmon report has been published, and we have adopted its recommendations. The industry has formed a small company to deliver that policy in conjunction with my Department. I am confident that, as the policy progresses, there will be an opportunity for restructuring and upskilling in the textile trades.

Killyleagh and Saintfield are not included in the New TSN area proposals, therefore, they do not receive the specific advantages that New TSN areas do. However, when this issue arose in the Ards and North Down boroughs, which were badly affected by textile cuts, the Department gave assurances that everything possible would be done to ensure that the areas received inward investment. That has certainly been achieved in the Ards area in the last two years.

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