Northern Ireland Assembly
Tuesday 29 May 2001 (continued)
Two stages in the timetable will help to draw the process together. First, it would be helpful if the Committees could give their preliminary views for consideration to the Committee for Finance and Personnel by 6 July. Secondly, if that Committee could provide me with some views by the end of August, it would be possible to take them into account when the Executive are considering the proposals for the Programme for Government and the draft Budget in early September. Neither deadline is a guillotine on the work, as there will be scope to hear more from all Committees at later stages. Contributions at the times I have mentioned would, however, be particularly useful. Between the end of August and mid-September, the Executive's work will concentrate on developing and refining draft proposals for the Programme for Government and the Budget, with a view to introducing these documents in draft to the Assembly in late September. That would fulfil the desire expressed by the Committee for Finance and Personnel in its report last year. If the draft Budget were introduced in late September, rather than mid-October as last year, that would offer more time to Committees for consultation on and consideration of the proposals. They will also have the benefit of the earlier material in the Executive's position reports. Comments could be channelled through the Committee for Finance and Personnel. As at the stages before and during the summer, I shall rely on that Committee to assist by working with the other Committees and channelling views to me. A further key stage of the work between 24 September and December will be consultation on the equality implications of the proposals. We intend to prepare the way for this by making the Executive's position reports widely available, so that those who wish to contribute will have information before the presentation of the draft Budget. During that period, the Assembly Committees will also consider the proposals for the Programme for Government and the public service agreements. The Executive will need to review the Budget in the autumn and decide on any revisions, depending on the views expressed in response to the draft Budget. Before that stage is reached, it should be possible to have a full debate on the draft Budget on foot of a motion from the Committee for Finance and Personnel. The Executive will thus be able to reflect more fully on Assembly views than was possible last year. I would like to hear further from the Committee for Finance and Personnel on the precise sequence of events. As last year, however, it might be best if the Committee were to report to me after that Budget debate. The Executive could then reflect on that report in its review of the Budget, which will also be informed by the concurrent work on the Programme for Government. The intention is that all the strands of work I have mentioned, including the views of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, the reaction to the equality consultation and the Executive's review of these and other relevant factors will come together in a statement to the Assembly on the revised Budget in early December, leading to an Assembly debate and vote by 10 December. The Assembly should note that there is no Treasury spending review this year. In some respects, this year's work will be a transition to the spending review of 2002. That will see the completion of the changes to resource budgeting. As we consider the issues in this cycle, we can draw on an extensive range of material which includes the public service agreements as set out in the Programme for Government, the details of the Executive programme funds and especially the indicative plans for 2002-03 and 2003-04 as shown in the Budget presented to the Assembly last December. Given the transitional nature of this year's arrangements, we do not anticipate a major recasting of the Budget, but we will need to address some key issues; hence, the approach that I have described today. Some business must be done in June on the Estimates and the Budget (No 2) Bill for 2001-02. However, that is separate from the Budget process for 2002-03 that is beginning today. There will be Programme for Government and pre- Budget statements in June on the main issues that must be addressed for 2002-03. Preliminary financial information will be supplied to the Committee for Finance and Personnel and other departmental Committees, and I shall seek the views of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, which will reflect the views of other Committees as well as its own, by the end of August. The Programme for Government proposals and the draft Budget will be considered by the Executive in early September and introduced to the Assembly in late September, after which the Committee for Finance and Personnel will take evidence from the Department of Finance and Personnel and other statutory Committees on the draft Budget. There will be consultation on the equality implications of the Programme for Government and the draft Budget, and there will be a substantive debate on the draft Budget in November, as part of the Committee for Finance and Personnel's work to collate and channel comment on the Executive's proposals. Our aim is that the revised Budget will be announced to the Assembly in early December and debated and voted on a week thereafter. I hope that Members find the explanation of the intended procedures and timetable helpful as an indication of what is planned and that it will inform Committees' planning of their programmes. The Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr Molloy): Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I welcome the Minister's statement; it launches the Budget debate. I hope that all Committees will take up the debate with their Department. Can the Minister assure Members that the statutory departmental Committees will be given adequate time to consider all the stages of the financial process? There was some slippage this year. In future, we should start the process again at the end of a term. Committees must be able to scrutinise the proposals with their own Department. That has not happened as early this year as we would have liked. Why has that consultation not happened? Were Ministers directed to consult their Department on the proposals? Will Committees have the opportunity to scrutinise the Supply resolution to ensure that it reflects each Department's needs? Members should be given the opportunity for a debate in October. The date for the debate has moved to November, but the Committee has made it clear that it wants a debate in October, to give it enough time after the debate to produce a report and consult the other Committees. Mr Durkan: I acknowledge the Committee's input to our proposals on timetable and procedures. Neither the Executive nor the Department of Finance and Personnel is applying time constraints. I said last year that Committees did not need to wait for me to fire a starting gun to begin consideration of their Department's spending plans. I know that people have a particular interest in seeing which bids succeed and which fail. However, I hope that the departmental Committees will develop the role that they have to play in contributing to the thinking of Departments. Committee involvement should also help to ensure that Departments make sound plans to underpin bids. Departmental Committees can make a contribution towards that work, even outside the Budget cycle. 11.30 am I agree with the Chairperson of the Committee that the full debate, on a motion tabled by the Committee for Finance and Personnel, should take place in adequate time before the Committee is due to give a report to me. The precise timing and sequence of events needs to be resolved. The Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr Leslie): I thank the Minister for his detailed statement and for the enthusiasm that he and his Colleagues have displayed for what is potentially a hypothetical exercise. The exercise provides the right template for the future, although the plans for the future might be delayed. Resource account budgeting is new to all of us. Does the Minister intend to offer a tutorial about the structure of the new accounts? To the best of my knowledge the record of assets that is held by Departments is not ready yet. The new accounts system will have a significant part to play in future planning for Departments, and I hope that it will improve the planning for capital expenditure. When will the figures be available? Mr Durkan: I thank the Member for his compliments. I believe that we will use the procedure, and I hope that we do so constructively. The Member's points about the implications of resource accounting and budgeting are well made. One of our aims is to use the system to enable better planning for the Executive. I would be happy to consider how to format tutorials on resource account budgeting. We could provide seminars on a request basis for different Committees or by organising parties or Committee Chairpersons. We might consult with the Committee for Finance and Personnel on how best to provide the information. The published accounts will be available in October 2002. The Valuation and Lands Agency has a role in the ongoing work on assets. When we have further information on the matter we will make that available to the Committee for Finance and Personnel. Mr ONeill: I welcome the Minister's statement. Does he agree that his statement is further evidence of devolution of power's working? That process that we have discussed demonstrates the opportunity for the people of Northern Ireland to influence the allocation of resources through the MLAs of all parties. Members work closely together on Committees, although some people say that that is not the case. Our Committee had expressed some concern about the timetable, but I welcome the detail of the programme. We are somewhat reassured, although still a bit concerned, about the amount of time that is available. However, the system is a good step forward, and the template should enable progress. Mr Durkan: I welcome the comments from the Chairperson of the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure. Through this timetable we have tried to give the Committees more time not only to consider the draft Budget, but also for input and reflection prior to Executive consideration. That is noticeably different to what happened last year. We want to ensure that through the Committees, MLAs can make a contribution on spending plans in advance. Committees should not have to wait until the draft Budget is available and then work in a purely reactive way. Committees have already done a range of work involving different service areas and programmes, and they have comments on those issues. There is no reason why those comments on spending plans for next year should not have been communicated to the individual Departments. I hope that Committees will welcome the greater amount of time made available to them by this timetable, and that they also recognise the sound material that is already available to them on which they can base their contributions. Mr Close: I have been particularly critical of the process over the last couple of years. However, I must give credit where it is due. The Minister's statement gives us the opportunity and the ability to move forward in a more efficient manner. As has already been mentioned, the Budget is the most important issue that can come before the House because it affects everyone in Northern Ireland. It is important that the procedures are right so that the right expenditure is in the right areas for the people we represent. Inevitably this is a race against time, and it is important that we get off to a good start. Can the Minister assure the House that through negotiations with his Colleagues on the Executive, the necessary information will be made available to the respective departmental Committees so that initial comments channelled into the Finance and Personnel Committee by 6 July will be meaningful and constructive and will give us the tools to advise him correctly as Minister? Mr Durkan: I concur with Mr Close's comments about the importance of getting Budget procedures right, not only for the Assembly's own conduct, but also, more importantly, for the good of the services to the community which this Assembly is responsible for providing. I reiterate that the Committees already have a considerable amount of relevant information for next year. They know where the indicative allocations lie in the revised Budget announced in December 2000. They have material about the public service agreements and the Programme for Government's targets, and also the supplementary information that has since emerged about the Executive programme funds. The Committees have also been informed by their own work in exploring different issues. In June the Committees will have the benefit of a statement on the Programme for Government that will be followed by a pre-Budget statement, again on behalf of the Executive. The Committees will receive position reports for their respective Departments, and the Committee for Finance and Personnel will receive the entire compendium of position reports affecting all Departments and the Executive as a whole. The Committees will have that information as soon as it is cleared by the Executive. With this information the Committees will be able to give feedback to the Committee for Finance and Personnel before the Executive even considers a draft Budget, and in many cases before I, as Minister, have had Budget bilateral meetings with my fellow Ministers. Rev Robert Coulter: Part of my question has been answered, but I too welcome the statement from the Minister. Can the Minister tell us what arrangements are in place to ensure that departmental statements will be with Committees in time for a full and adequate consideration of the issues involved? Mr Durkan: Obviously the position reports first have to clear the Executive. There will be an Executive meeting on 14 June, and that is when we expect them to be agreed. The following week those position reports will be made available. We cannot do it any sooner than that, because we must ensure that they are first cleared by the Executive. In addition, they need to be in similar format, because presenting very different types and styles to Committees would make their job harder - and certainly make the job of the Committee for Finance and Personnel harder. I recognise that given the date set for the Assembly recess it is asking Committees to engage in some concentrated effort to get preliminary reflections back to the Committee for Finance and Personnel by 6 July, but that is something that Committees can and should do. We always recognised that once we had the target of trying to introduce the draft Budget as soon as possible after the recess, we were going to have to work at some lick to get some consideration of it before the recess. Ms Hanna: I too welcome the Minister's statement and particularly his giving increased opportunities for consideration by the Committees. Will the Minister say when he expects the needs and effectiveness reviews to be completed, and can he assure us that the improvement that has been started today will continue? Mr Durkan: The needs and effectiveness reviews were announced to the Assembly on previous occasions, not least at the time of the statement on the Executive programme funds, which also addressed issues outstanding from the monitoring round. We want to use these reviews to help ensure that we are putting adequate resources, appropriately targeted, into the particular services that will be the subject of those reviews and inform our wider approach to negotiations with the Treasury on Barnett. Work is already underway on those reviews. We will certainly be trying to ensure that when we are doing the Budget work in September we will be doing some of that work in the light of the information coming from those reviews. Mr McFarland: Earlier in the year the Minister announced that his Department and the Economic Policy Unit were to help the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to try to devise a system for tracking funds. Does the Minister now have the information that will allow his Department and the Health Committee to properly scrutinise the health budget? Mr Durkan: Obviously this is a bit beyond the timetabling for next year's Budget, but that work is ongoing, as is work on the needs and effectiveness reviews. When the work is concluded the Executive will consider relevant papers from the Economic Policy Unit and me, and information will then be made available to the relevant Assembly Committee. Mr Byrne: I welcome the statement by the Minister and particularly the timetable that has been set out for the compilation of the Budget for next year. If this process is engaged in properly by all involved, can the Minister confirm that it could result in an integrated approach to Budget planning and a real start to the process of delivering joined-up Government? Mr Durkan: If we undertake this timetable and Committees use the opportunities, both before the recess and afterwards, to take advantage of the longer time available for dealing with the draft Budget, we can make a significant improvement to the procedures that have gone before. 11.45 am It will make a qualitative difference to the Budget that we have. I issue the health warning that because next year will see a spending review and we already have our amounts fixed for the year, there is not going to be the same latitude available to make significant changes. Nevertheless, if we use the new procedures and the more comfortable time frame now available, in future years when we have wider issues for determination we can ensure that the Assembly has as big an influence on the Budget as it wants. Mr Savage: I too welcome the statement from the Minister. I congratulate him on the work that he has done over the past months on planning and preparation for the future. Budgets are very important, but there are other things which are equally so. I want to draw peoples' attention to one thing. A couple of weeks ago - [Interruption] Mr Speaker: Order. I remind the Member that this is an opportunity to ask questions of the Minister; it is not an opportunity for Members to make statements. Mr Savage: A number of weeks ago, the First Minister handed you a letter, a very important letter. We may plan whatever - [Interruption] Mr Speaker: Order. The question must be relevant to the statement and not to any extraneous matter such as a letter that I may have received. Mr Savage: The various Committees have been asked to bring forward proposals by a certain date - 6 July was mentioned by Mr Durkan. Where will the information go if the Assembly does not exist? Mr Speaker: That is well outside the bailiwick of the Minister. The Member has mentioned 6 July - whether a particular Minister resigns does not affect the Assembly per se at that point. To move outside the statement to ask broader political questions is not a proper use of the House's time. We must leave it there. Trustee Bill: Consideration StageMr Speaker: No amendments have been tabled to the Bill. The Chairman of the Finance and Personnel Committee, Mr Molloy, said that he wished to speak briefly on clause 1. I do not see him here. I propose, by leave of the Assembly, to take the remaining clauses en bloc, followed by the four schedules en bloc and the long title. Hearing no objection I shall proceed in that fashion. I see that Mr Molloy has appeared again. Clause 1 (The duty of care) The Chairperson of the Finance and Personnel Committee (Mr Molloy): A Cheann Comhairle, I apologise as I was called out by the Clerk. Before addressing clause 1, I would like to take the opportunity to thank the organisations that took the time to write to us, setting out their views on the Bill. I also thank the Minister and ask him to pass on the Committee's appreciation to the Office of Law Reform and its officials who assisted the Committee in its detailed consideration of the clauses. The Committee received advanced briefings on the Bill from officials at the Office of Law Reform, and that enabled us to complete the Committee Stage of the Bill in the period set down in Standing Orders. The Committee met on eight occasions. Four of those meetings took place before the Bill was introduced to the Assembly. I thank my Committee Colleagues for their work in dealing with the Bill within the set time. The Committee agreed that clause 1 should be recommended to the Assembly for approval. Go raibh maith agat. Mr Durkan: I am pleased that the Committee is content with the Bill. I acknowledge the work that the Committee did on the Bill before it came to the Assembly. I note the thanks expressed by the Chairman on behalf of the Committee, and I will be happy to convey them. Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 2 to 46 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedules 1 to 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Long title agreed to. Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Speaker. Family Law BillMr Speaker: No amendments have been tabled to the Bill. I therefore propose, by leave of the House, to group the five clauses followed by the long title. Hearing no objection, I will proceed in that fashion. Clauses 1 to 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Long title agreed to. Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Speaker. Child Support (Collection and Enforcement and Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001Child Support (Information, Evidence and Disclosure and Maintenance Arrangements and Jurisdiction) (Amendment) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001Child Support (Maintenance Calculation Procedure) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001
The Child Support (Maintenance Calculations and Special Cases) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2001The Child Support (Variations)
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