The Minister stated that the movement of all susceptible animals in Northern Ireland had been banned, except of those going directly to the slaughterhouse. Can she confirm that a slaughter of sheep took place yesterday? Just yesterday, sheep were being transported through the village of Augher in County Tyrone.

I would also like to know what the Minister has recommended to the RUC. Is she in favour of the security forces patrolling the Northern Ireland side of the border? There are quite clear distinctions between security measures on the two sides. People going across the border into the Republic of Ireland are having their cars searched quite rigorously - even bottles of milk are being taken from them. I would like to know what the Minister has recommended in relation to the people coming across the border into Northern Ireland.

I do not think that Members expect me to have knowledge of every movement of animals in Northern Ireland. Authorised movement of animals is allowed from farm to slaughterhouse, and that is taking place. That is essential to maintain the food supplies.

In relation to the RUC and patrolling, I assure the Member that my Department liaises daily with the RUC and the army so that they are aware of what is required. They are taking their own operational decisions, which clearly would not be a matter for me as Minister of Agriculture. We are also co-operating fully with the Department of Agriculture and Food in the South on a daily basis, and on Tuesday of last week the RUC intercepted two illegal movements of animals in the south Armagh area. Since then, another movement of animals has been intercepted by the RUC - [Interruption].

Order.

This turned out to be a legal movement. I give this information to emphasise that it is not what you see that counts, but what is happening.

I am grateful to the Minister, and I join her in paying tribute to her staff at the Newry office. Given the public statement by the Irish Republic's Defence Minister, Mr Michael Smith, and the accurate and highly commendable public comments of Mr Fee, can the Minister explain why there is still no large-scale RUC presence in south Armagh to help prevent the illegal movement of livestock, either across the border or within the area? Can she assure us that she will actively pursue the provision of an aid package for all those affected by this crisis, including owners and employees of livestock marts?

I have already replied to the Member's questions on RUC presence in the area and assistance to those affected by the crisis. I do not think it would be wise to repeat myself.

Obviously, I want to secure full compensation for everyone, but there are several obstacles, including restricted resources and EU rules. However, I noted the Prime Minister's comments last week with regard to this matter.

I compliment the Minister and her officials on their very strong, effective and immediate action in all quarters. As the Minister has said, such activity is progressional, and cases must be prioritised according to how serious they are.

Further to her response to Mr Kennedy's question, we are aware of the dramatic economic effect of BSE and other marketing problems on the farming industry. If compensation for those affected by this situation is not handled properly, it will almost be the nail in the coffin.

I draw the Minister's attention to the statement last Friday by the Minister of Agriculture for France, Jean Glavany, that he was contributing £168 million over and above the compensation already being given to French farmers, albeit in respect of BSE. Interestingly, he indicated that the European Commission had given its approval for these plans for compensation in France and said that that this might herald a

Under pressure from the French producers, M Glavany has made this additional allocation. In view of the economic problems that our farming community and its ancillary industries are going to experience, will the Minister take on board this new dimension and pursue the national Government at Westminster and the European Commission for substantial additional funding for all aspects of the farming industry?

I have not seen the report that Mr McGrady has referred to, but I am very anxious to know if M Glavany has EU approval for state aid in this situation. I would welcome any possibility of securing aid at national level for our hard-pressed farming community and the industry as a whole.

I sympathise with Mr McGrady's views, and I am very aware of the short-term problems that the present situation creates for many people in the industry. I hope to have a meeting with the banks and the grain people, today or tomorrow, to discuss possible measures for easing the current situation for those with cash-flow problems.

A Cheann Comhairle, I acknowledge the Minister's statement and note that the she has received no complaints about intimidation from her officials.

The British supermarket-driven cheap food policy has made a cesspool of the agriculture industry in Britain, and the Minister has been pursuing a regional agricultural opt-out policy. In view of this, is she completely satisfied that all ports and points of entry are properly inspected and are enforcing a thorough disinfecting policy? Has the Minister banned all agricultural products from entry into the North? Will the Minister consider authorising information advertisements, similar to those produced in the South, in all papers and nightly television information programmes on this horrendous foot-and-mouth disease? Will the Minister concede that there are agricultural, economic and health imperatives for total North/South co-operation on agriculture?

We will look at issues such as the cheap food policy in the future. However, my whole focus at this point is, and will remain, on keeping foot-and-mouth disease out of Northern Ireland. I am not considering other issues.

The ban on agricultural products and live animals from Britain covers all cloven-hoofed animals which are susceptible to the disease. As for products, only those which have been heat-treated to a certain standard and certified by the relevant Departments both here and across the water can be brought in. All other products are banned.

Mr Doherty asked me to concede that North and South should work together on agriculture. He will be aware that I have had several North/South agricultural meetings with the Minister in the South, Joe Walsh. We have a process in place which is aimed at having joint strategies for animal disease in the North and South of the island. This is extremely important; we have already recognised that, and the process is well advanced. We are in constant liaison with the Department in the South; in fact we have been in contact on a half-hourly basis since the threat of disease came in. Clearly it is recognised on all sides of the House that there is no political implication in the co-operation which has taken place and which will continue. It is common sense because agriculture is a main industry in both North and South. We have many converging interests, and we will continue to work on that front in the confines of the North/South Ministerial Council.

I welcome the Minister's apparently belated support for the RUC. It has been reported that many people are involved in this organised activity - not just a few individuals. Given that information, will she now call unequivocally on the constituents of south Armagh to co-operate fully with the RUC and supply the information necessary to bring to justice those guilty of illegal sheep trading?

I thank the Member for his question. Again, I regret the political point-scoring. My party's position has always been absolutely clear. We have always supported the police service in the impartial carrying out of its duties, and we will continue to do so.

The Member asked about the illegal activities that led to the difficulties we now face. My Colleagues and I have made it very clear, and I presume that everyone in the House will concur, that co-operation with the police is essential to enable us to get to the bottom of this. We must thus ensure that those responsible are brought to justice and that this sort of activity is stamped out.

I thank the Minister for her statement. However, I regret that she was not more explicit in her support for her Colleague Mr Fee, who seems to have done more than anybody else in Northern Ireland to clarify the true nature of the problem we have in isolating this disease.

Will the Minister's Department take immediate steps to publicise widely the precise nature of the disinfecting procedures for vehicles and people, and particularly the type of disinfectant that is effective? Will she ensure that enough disinfectant is available in Northern Ireland? Will she also ensure that advice is given on the length of matting required to disinfect vehicles' wheels? I was pleased to see that we have such matting at the Massey Avenue entrance to this Building this morning, but the wheels of a four-wheel-drive vehicle are probably wider than some of the matting. It is important that this be dealt with precisely and in detail.

As for compensation, it is critical at this stage that measures be taken to ensure that farmers and other people can purchase the necessary disinfectant and matting.

It is very difficult to convey information to every person in Northern Ireland. However, the information the Member refers to is available on the Department's website (www.dardni.gov.uk). Not everyone has access to a computer, and I would appreciate the help of MLAs and others who have access to the website to convey the information contained there around their areas.

Last week I was made aware that disinfectant might run out, and I took the precaution of speaking to my Chief Veterinary Officer. He assures me that ample disinfectant will be available. The list of approved disinfectants will also be available on the website, and the Department will publicise it as far as possible. Specific issues, such as the matting at the entrance to this Building, will be examined.

I congratulate the Minister and her Department on the way in which they have handled the foot-and-mouth issue since the scare first arose in Northern Ireland.

May I ask the Minister if it is proposed to hold a meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council to examine the issue in detail so that she and her counterpart in the South, Minister Joe Walsh, can co-ordinate effectively every aspect of animal protection on an all-Ireland basis?

Perhaps the Minister could give consideration to a public information video that could be broadcast on BBC and UTV, similar to the video that RTE is currently running nightly.

As far as I remember, the next meeting of the North/South Ministerial Council is scheduled for 21 March 2001. Given the current situation, I intend to try to bring that meeting forward because we could usefully discuss several matters, particularly in relation to animal health. There is constant contact between my Veterinary Sevice and the veterinary department in Dublin on all relevant issues.

The idea of a video is an excellent suggestion and something we can consider. Today I am chairing a cross-departmental meeting; an emergency Executive meeting is scheduled for tomorrow, and that is something we could consider when co-ordinating our efforts.

The belief is that the staff delayed preventing import of products from Great Britain at Northern Ireland ports and airports. How long did the Department wait after the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease on the mainland? In the light of the current crisis, can the Minister inform the House if she or her Department has considered what steps can be taken to ensure that the standards of farm produce, whether beef, lamb or pork, are identical standards to those of our Northern Ireland produce? Will there be provision for a greater inspection of imports in the immediate future?

Moreover, can the Minister confirm if the permits needed to move livestock from the UK mainland to Northern Ireland can be made foolproof? If animals are cleared by inspection and deemed fit for transport to a Northern Ireland abattoir, will that be their destination? Can the Minister confirm that they will not end up as breeding stock on a farm here? The Minister mentioned the 100% compensation for animals that have been subject to compulsory slaughter. Can she provide a breakdown of the compensation figure involved per bovine animal, sheep or pig?

I have had some difficulty following the questions.

I think you have answered the majority of them already.

Mr Deputy Speaker, you are quite right.

I reiterate that there was no delay in introducing a ban on products coming in from Great Britain. On that very evening animals that were on the high seas were turned back at the port, so there was no delay.

So far as I am aware, I have dealt with all of the Member's questions. I am not sure that I quite understood one question, but the 100% compensation is for all animals slaughtered as a result of the crisis, whether sheep, goats, cattle or pigs.

I remind Members that we only have an hour for this debate and ask them please to keep their questions short.

I thank the Minister for her statement this morning and give credit to Ms Rodgers for leading the Department through very difficult times. I have two questions.

On the point raised by my Colleague, David Ford, does she accept that there was no criticism on our part over her absence from the Assembly last Monday and Tuesday? We accept that she was engaged in vital discussions elsewhere.

I have just asked Members not to repeat questions. We have already dealt with that; please get on.

We remain concerned that in an era of joined-up government, which was not mentioned earlier, no other Minister was available to speak on her behalf.

Mr McCarthy, I am stopping you because that has been dealt with at least twice on other occasions. Please get on with your question. If you have got a question, ask it.

Will the Minister tell us why there was no Minister in the Assembly last week to speak on her behalf? Will she tell the Assembly the total number of animals slaughtered so far in the Meigh area and throughout Northern Ireland?

On the Meigh farm that had a positive test, 21 animals were slaughtered. I do not have the exact figures in front of me for the adjoining herds, and if I did, I would have to tally them. However, I shall let the Member have the numbers as soon as possible. With regard to my unavailability to make a report to the House, I am not sure, Mr Deputy Speaker, what the procedure - [Interruption].

You do not need to answer that; you have already done so.

I am not sure what other procedure there could have been. All I can say is that I could not be here.

I also thank the Minister for the strong steps that have been taken to deal with the crisis. This matter should be above political points-scoring, so will the Minister confirm that the absence of any North/ South Ministerial Council meeting has not inhibited her, or her officials, from dealing with the crisis as effectively as possible? Moreover, while effective measures of the most stringent kind are necessary, does she agree that a balance has to be struck between those measures and what can only be described as ill-informed hysteria, which often undermines the attention people pay to really effective measures? Does she agree that suggestions that a ring of disinfectant be put around Belfast City Hall are examples of hysteria?

I thank the Member for his question.

In answer to the last part, I must say that I do not think that it is hysteria. Perhaps members of the public are a little over-anxious to make sure that they do everything possible. There is anxiety and recognition that this could be a very serious crisis for our agriculture industry. I do not complain if there has been over-reaction. It is understandable in the circumstances. As I have already said, we will be giving clearer guidelines so that people recognise the risks. Mr McCartney will recognise that even people from the country come into Belfast to shop, and they do go into the City Hall from time to time. There is no such thing as being absolutely certain.

On the issue of the North/South ministerial meeting, I make the point to Mr McCartney, who was not in the Chamber for my statement - I do not know how long he has been in the House -

What about the Minister's claim that this debate was not about party point-scoring? Will she answer the question asked?

I asked Mr McCartney that because I am not sure whether he has heard these points already. The fact that we have a devolved Government has been crucial in the present situation because we have been able to take immediate action to protect Northern Ireland, which we would not have been able to do otherwise, and which we did, despite resistance from some quarters.

In relation to the North/South Ministerial Council, we have established links between the two Departments of Agriculture, which are dealing with animal health on the island as a whole, and this is very important for the long-term implications. On the issue of short-term implications, however, we have not had a meeting in the middle of this crisis for the simple reason that we have been focusing on what needs to be done immediately by both Departments in this emergency. It would have been daft for officials to have spent time dealing with the papers necessary for setting up a North/ South Ministerial Council meeting at this time. We have been dealing with the situation in practical ways, and that there is now such contact between the North and the South and between Ministers has been very helpful.

The last question is from Dr McCrea. Please be brief, as there is less than half a minute left.

The Minister said that some of the remainder of the consignment of animals was deposited in the Republic of Ireland as well as the original ones. Can she tell us why it has been declared that we have foot-and-mouth disease here, while the same has not been declared of the Irish Republic? The Irish Republic slaughters its animals, yet no such declaration has been made. Does the Minister realise that when this crisis is over, there will be major implications if that situation is permitted to last?

Time is up.

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Given the seriousness of this matter, can the Chair not allow the exchange to be extended, by leave of the House, in the interests of the many Members who still have pertinent and serious questions to put?

I understand the problem, but the Standing Orders are quite clear. One hour is the length of time that was decided by the Standing Orders Committee. Any change would have to be made by that Committee.

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can the House not give leave to suspend Standing Orders and allow more time?

I understand that if a motion were to be made to that effect it could be considered by the House.

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is the practice in Westminster - and surely ought to be the practice here - that if a Member is permitted to ask a question, it may be answered.

Those are interesting points, but I think that they would require a motion to be put down for debate, whatever happens in Westminster.

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You said that if a motion were put down, and leave of the House were given to extend the debate, then the debate would be extended. May I verbally propose an extension of the debate for 30 minutes with leave of the House now, or must that be put down in writing in advance?

It would have to be on the Order Paper as a proper motion. There would be no point in having Standing Orders that could be voided at any time.

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Can the Business Committee or the Procedures Committee consider that matter? The debate continued for an hour, there are still many questions to be put. How can this situation be dealt with?

I am certain that the Business Committee will look at this and make a recommendation. But the rule is the rule. We have heard, at some length and frequently, about the necessity of observing rules, not only with regard to foot-and-mouth disease, but also concerning the conduct of the Assembly.

Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You said that I was making an interesting point. I put it to you that, under Standing Orders, if the Chair has permitted a question, surely it should be answered by the Minister. If that is not permitted, or no answer will be given, why allow a question to be asked in the first place?

If the Minister, in her wisdom, decided to reply, that would be permissible. Minister, can you recall the question?

No.

I drew the Minister's attention to the part of her statement where she pointed out that animals in contact with infected animals were transported for slaughter in County Roscommon within six hours. She also said that the remainder of the consignment was deposited in another holding in south Armagh before being taken to the Republic of Ireland. Therefore there are animals there.

Why is it that we have declared an incident of foot-and-mouth disease for that consignment of animals, and the Irish Republic has not? The Irish Republic slaughters its animals, but made no declaration. We slaughter our animals and we make a declaration. Does the Minister not realise that there are serious implications for the future of our industry if that situation remains?

This has gone on much too long. I am going to bring it to a halt. If you wish to have an answer from the Minister, perhaps she will give you a written answer.

That is ridiculous. I have asked the question twice.

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In Westminster, where they have Standing Orders such as we have -

Mr McCartney, we are not in Westminster. We are at Stormont, in Northern Ireland.

It is a serious matter for my constituents.

We are dealing with our own Stormont Government at the moment. I am suggesting - indeed, I am requiring - that we move on to the next motion. I have received notice from the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment -

Are you refusing to take a point of order?

I have already taken the point of order.

You have not taken my point of order.

You gave me your point of order.

No. Are you taking the point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, or not?

Give me your point of order again.

My point of order is that it is established practice, and also the practice here, that where there is no clear convention or rule here, the Standing Orders of Westminster will be followed as a precedent.

I have referred, at least twice, to the fact that we have Standing Orders that I am observing. The Minister would be permitted, if she so chose, to answer the question despite that.

She was stopped - you stopped her.

Now we have moved on. A quarter of an hour has been taken out of the next important debate, and I am going to call on the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment.

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have tried several times to make this point of order, but your attention was directed elsewhere. What recourse do Members have when only some parts of a multiple question are answered?

Many people have not been called to speak. Today, some people who were lucky enough to be called used the opportunity to ask four, five or six questions. That is the problem. If people were to ask the question that is important to them we could get much more into these one-hour discussions.

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I trust that you and your colleagues will direct the House so that Members understand the procedures when Standing Orders are not clear. The Speaker has told Members that when Standing Orders are not clear - Mr McCartney is absolutely right - we are governed by the procedure in Westminster. If that is not so, let us -[Interruption].

Members should not be shouting. The Speaker has ruled that this is the case. Are Members overruling the Speaker? The Speaker cannot be overruled. I want to know -[Interruption].

It is time to move on. Standing Orders are clear, and I insist that they will operate today. I call the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment.

We will have an opportunity to table a motion against that?

There is no doubt that you will.

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Energy

I wish to make a statement on energy - a subject in which there is keen interest. That has been clearly demonstrated by the Assembly's debate on electricity costs and by the volume of questions and correspondence on energy issues which crosses my desk. As I said in the debate in November, I am surprised at the proportion of my time that is taken up by energy matters, considering the market is privatised.

This statement is timely. Energy issues affect each of us, our constituents and our environment. We must address problems such as continuing high electricity prices. We all have a responsibility to practice energy-efficiency. That is all the more so in Northern Ireland given the relatively high electricity prices here. There are current developments in the energy field that merit serious debate across the economic and social spectrum.

Various consultation documents on energy issues have been published over the past two years and others will appear over the next few months. The Enterprise, Trade and Investment Committee has begun an inquiry into energy, and my Department has set a Programme for Government target of producing an energy strategy by the end of the year. In achieving the target, I intend to take full account of the Committee's inquiry report and will provide opportunities for wide participation in considering proposals that emerge to shape and finalise that strategy.

The past 10 years have seen very significant changes in the energy scene. In the early 1990s, the small Northern Ireland energy market was isolated from the main gas and electricity networks in Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland, and it served a population of 1·5 million. Northern Ireland Electricity (NIE) was the only supplier and distributor of electricity.

Northern Ireland was almost totally dependent on imported oil and coal for its energy needs, and was fully dependent on both - but primarily on oil - for its electricity generation. There was a small liquid petroleum gas (LPG) market and environmental issues were beginning to emerge.

Unlike other parts of the United Kingdom, Northern Ireland had no supply of natural gas, there was no nuclear source, and the supply of renewable sources was negligible. There were extensive lignite reserves estimated at 1000 million tonnes but those had not been developed. Those reserves constituted the only known indigenous energy resource, and hydrocarbon exploration had not identified any commercially exploitable quantities of oil or natural gas.

Electricity generation depended on imported fuels - 70% on oil and 30% on coal. Comparable statistics for the United Kingdom as a whole were 8% for oil, 70% for coal, 20% for nuclear power, and 2% for hydro-power. Most energy usage in Northern Ireland was in the domestic sector, and solid fuels - bituminous and smokeless in more or less equal measure - served 69% of that sector, compared with 11% in the United Kingdom as a whole.

Because Northern Ireland had an isolated, primarily oil-dependent, electricity system, its costs were high. Some things never change, I hear Members say. At that time, the average cost of electricity was about 15% higher than in Great Britain and 9% higher than in the Republic of Ireland. Northern Ireland paid more for certain categories of smokeless fuels than other regions in the United Kingdom. As a result, over 7% of average gross weekly household income in Northern Ireland was spent on energy, compared with less than 5% in the United Kingdom as a whole.

The publicly owned NIE was privatised, with the four power stations - two oil-fired, one coal-fired, and one dual coal-fired/oil-fired - being sold to three private companies in April 1992. The remaining transmission, distribution and supply responsibilities were transferred to a new company, NIE plc, which was floated on the Stock Exchange in June 1993. The largest power station, at Ballylumford, was sold to British Gas on condition that the station would be converted from oil- to gas-fired. This conversion was completed in 1996. The power stations were sold on the basis of long-term generation contracts with NIE. The contracts guaranteed the stations' payments for being available to meet any demand as well as meeting the costs of generation. More about these contracts later. Regulation of the industry became the responsibility of the Office of Electricity Regulation (OFFER), subsequently renamed the Office for the Regulation of Electricity and Gas (OFREG), a non- ministerial Government Department.

The pace and significance of recent changes in the energy sector have been considerable. Today's market is very different from that of 10 years ago. Northern Ireland is no longer isolated. It is part and parcel of a much larger European market with a continuing agenda for a single, liberalised energy market in electricity, gas and renewables. I recently announced a joint study of the energy markets North and South with my counterpart in the Republic of Ireland, Mrs Mary O'Rourke TD, and intend to use the findings of that study to ensure that we can deliver an all-island solution firmly within a European market.

We should consider what is now in place - industry restructuring and privatisation with independent regulation; gas interconnection between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom; the conversion of Ballylumford to gas firing, and - with construction of an even more efficient plant under way - the much-needed reduction of our dependence on oil-fired generation. We also have the establishment of a natural gas industry in the Greater Belfast area, with its beneficial impacts on the environment; the continuing important contributions of the coal and oil industries in providing consumers with the widest possible fuel choice; the implementation of the Electricity Liberalisation Directive by April 2001 - two years earlier than required by the European Commission - enabling our largest consumers to get the best price for their electricity; and increased North/South interconnection, which will not only stimulate that liberalised market but also assist the progressive development of an all-island trading system.

Further to this, preliminary studies have been undertaken into the possible extension of the gas market, both North/ South and to the north-west. There have been two Northern Ireland Non-Fossil Fuel Obligation, (NFFO) Orders, which have resulted in contracts for some 32 megawatts of renewables, and there has been sustained promotion of both combined heat and power (CHP) and energy efficiency. Moreover, the welcome arrival of natural gas - albeit so far only in the Greater Belfast area - has given industry a much greater opportunity than was previously possible to consider and introduce CHP. Collectively, these developments have brought substantial benefits to the consumer and to our environment.

All this has been achieved through close collaboration between the public and private sectors. I want to pay particular tribute to the degree in which the various private sector interests have co-operated together with OFREG and with the Department, in delivering a much more coherent energy framework upon which to build. The consumer has also been well represented through the General Consumer Council and the Northern Ireland Consumer Committee for Electricity.

Where do we go from here, and how do we build upon this framework? First, we should perhaps remind ourselves of the role of Government. My Department's objective is to achieve a secure, diverse, competitive and efficient energy market. We are no longer the provider; our responsibility now is to set the strategic context and framework within which industry operates in a manner that ensures benefits for the consumer and the environment. In doing this, we work closely with the regulator. Part of this year's agenda will be to look at the powers of the regulator and decide whether those are sufficient to ensure that we achieve our objective.

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