COMMITTEE FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
OFFICIAL REPORT
(Hansard)
Welfare Reform Bill
22 January 2009
Members present for all or part of the proceedings:
Mr David Simpson (Chairperson)
Mr David Hilditch (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Billy Armstrong
Mr Thomas Burns
Mr Jonathan Craig
Ms Anna Lo
Mr Fra McCann
Miss Michelle McIlveen
Mr Alban Maginness
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín
The Chairperson (Mr Simpson):
We will move now to the Department for Work and Pensions’ White Paper on welfare reform. The Committee Clerk will take us through the key issues outlined in a briefing paper that he has prepared for the Committee.
The Committee Clerk:
The members’ information packs contain a copy of the White Paper, and a lengthy briefing paper. I intend, for members’ information, to touch on just the key points that it contains.
Members will recall that the Committee considered the Green Paper on welfare reform in October 2008. Following that consultation, the White Paper has been published. It contains a long list of new measures. The Welfare Reform Bill will, of course, be subject to amendment during its passage through Westminster.
A Northern Ireland version of the Bill is expected to come before the Assembly in the autumn. The Department for Social Development may come to brief the Committee on that next month. I intend, for members’ information only, to cover some of the key points in the White Paper. The reason for that is because some of the issues in the White Paper will appear in the media; therefore, this briefing is to inform members’ understanding, and I hope that it will be helpful.
The White Paper is organised into chapters. The first chapter that I shall deal with is about benefit reform. The Department for Work and Pensions ultimately wants one working-age benefit. For the present, however, there will continue to be two benefits: jobseeker’s allowance, and the employment and support allowance. Income support is to be phased out, except for carers. That is a change from the Green Paper: carers will be largely exempt from these reforms. There is to be a wide-ranging review of housing benefit, and there is no more detail available on that at the moment. There is a long list of other changes, which I have laid out in my briefing paper.
The second key issue concerns devolving control of the welfare state. The Department for Work and Pensions believes that control of the welfare state can be devolved to service providers and to the regions. The implications for parity and for Northern Ireland are unclear, because the White Paper makes no mention of Northern Ireland. It is intended to allow private employment service providers to devise and provide more employment services in what are called pathfinder regions. Private employment service providers could, I believe, also mean voluntary and community groups providing employment and such services.
In response to the Gregg Review, there will be a new Pathways to Work programme; trials of a new discretionary authority for job centre advisers; and sanctions for lone parents with children aged between three and six years old. In addition, there will be trials in what are called trailblazing public bodies, which will allow disabled claimants more control over their benefits and services.
The next key area is entitled ‘Personalised conditionality and support’. Again, in response to the Gregg Review, the Department for Work and Pensions has set out a new categorisation of benefit claimants. Category 1 are those who are “work ready” — that is, who are just out of work and who might experience sanctions if they do not go looking for work. Category 2 is the “progression to work” group — those who will need support and who will be sanctioned if they do not undertake work-related activity. Work-related activity means, for example, individuals dealing with any health problems that might prevent them from taking up employment, dealing with childcare issues, or looking for work itself. The third category, to which the Department has not given a name, will be for those for whom work-related activity would be optional. I take that to mean carers, lone parents with children under a year old, and those in the employment and support allowance support group, as it is called.
The next chapter of the White Paper is entitled ‘No one written off’. The Department for Work and Pensions believes that, in the 1980s, people became detached from work, and thus became unemployable. Therefore, it intends to introduce a programme of interviews at regular intervals, skills health checks, work capability assessments and work-focused health checks. The White Paper states that declared or suspected drug users will be required to undertake treatment, and additional support measures will be provided for people with fluctuating mental-health problems in order to help them back to work.
The last chapter of the White Paper to which I shall refer is entitled ‘More support, higher expectations’. The Department for Work and Pensions is to introduce work-for-your-benefit schemes in pilot areas. The schemes will be full time and mandatory for those who have been unemployed for a long time. Sanctions for not attending mandatory appointments will begin with a minimum of two weeks’ loss of benefit, which is a change from the present situation when sanctions can entail losing one or two days’ benefit. There will also be harsher sanctions for fraud, and sanctions will be introduced for behaving violently towards job centre and benefits office staff.
The Department for Social Development has not yet set out its views on those proposals. The Committee may wish to question the Department on that when its officials come to brief members in February. The Department has indicated informally that a Northern Ireland version of the Bill could be expected in the autumn, which might be very different, bearing in mind that the current Bill will have to go through Westminster.
The Chairperson:
A lot of amendments are, obviously, expected to the Bill because it contains a lot of radical change.
Mr F McCann:
That Bill will, obviously, have a dramatic impact on claimants across the board, regardless of their mental state or ability to work. The Committee had the Law Centre do some work for it recently, some of which contradicted much of what the Department was saying. Would the Committee be jumping the gun if it were to ask the Law Centre to do some work with regard to the issues outlined in this briefing paper in order that we are forewarned about some of the major pitfalls that we might encounter?
The Chairperson:
I do not think that the Committee would be jumping the gun in doing that. I believe that we could definitely get the Law Centre to carry out some research.
Ms Ní Chuilín:
The Committee should avail itself of as much advice and assistance as possible in order to help it to respond to the issues in the White Paper. As the Committee Clerk said, there is absolutely no reference in the White Paper to here. I, too, suspect that parts of the Welfare Reform Bill will be amended because of the ongoing increases in unemployment figures.
I know that the Department for Employment and Learning received correspondence about the steps to work programme. However, when one hears reference to involving the community and voluntary sector, that pushes buttons with us, and one thinks that that is a good thing, but, obviously, not at the expense of public service being eroded. However, what happens in such cases is that work is contracted out and people from Australia and America come over and bid for the contracts. However, that not only undermines any kind of community response, but undermines our own public services.
With regard to the talk about sanctions, or potential sanctions: if they are going to employ sanctions here, they are going to have to employ parity in its true form, which means that childcare and other such issues definitely need to be explored. Therefore, the Committee’s preparation would be helped by getting advice on such issues.
The Chairperson:
Are members content that the Committee tries to get the Law Centre to do some work on this matter in order to provide us with more in-depth knowledge?
The Committee Clerk:
If I may suggest that the Committee waits for the Department to come before it in February, because the Bill will have been amended at Westminster. I think that the Department will want the Bill to have at least a Second Reading before it comes before the Committee, because parts of the Bill about which members might be concerned might very well drop off. That being the case, if members are content, perhaps we should wait until nearer the time when departmental officials are due to come before the Committee before we approach the Law Centre.
The Chairperson:
That is a valid point and a good idea, because parts of the Bill could have dropped off by then.
Ms Lo:
Just to be clear, will this Bill require accelerated passage in order for parity to be attained? The Assembly has so often been pushed into that process.
The Chairperson:
Accelerated passage probably will be sought.
Ms Lo:
At this stage, therefore, we need to exert as much influence as possible on the legislation as it goes through Westminster in order that we can include issues that are relevant to Northern Ireland.
The Chairperson:
However, are you happy enough about the approach: the Committee waiting until the Second Reading of the Bill before getting departmental officials in for a briefing, and then getting some work done by the Law Centre?
Ms Lo:
Yes, I am happy with that.
Mr A Maginness:
When will the Bill get its Second Reading?
The Chairperson:
I understand that it will be in early February. Therefore, are members content with the approach outlined?
Members indicated assent.
The Committee Clerk:
Is the Committee also content for the Committee Clerk to write to the Minister to ask her to keep the Committee informed about the equivalent Assembly Bill and the programme for its enactment?
Members indicated assent.
The Chairperson:
OK, and I take it that all members will have read the White Paper in time for that meeting so that they can ask questions on it. I know that you will sit up all night to have a go at it.