COMMITTEE FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT  

OFFICIAL REPORT
(Hansard)

Child Maintenance Bill

5 June 2008

Members present for all or part of the proceedings:
Mr Gregory Campbell (Chairperson)
Mr Mickey Brady
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr Fra McCann
Miss Michelle McIlveen
Mr Alban Maginness

The Chairperson (Mr Campbell):
We will now move on to the issue of accelerated passage of the Child Maintenance Bill. Last week, a number of members expressed concerns about the request for accelerated passage. I asked the Committee Clerk to request a resumé from the Department. The Committee Clerk will now give us that resumé, in lay person’s terms, and then we will open up the discussion and come to a conclusion.

The Committee Clerk:
The situation is that if a parent with care cannot show good cause for not claiming child maintenance, his or her benefit is reduced by £24·20 a week. Under the proposed new legislation, the requirement to claim child maintenance would be removed, and the reduced benefit direction would no longer apply.

If the Assembly does not grant accelerated passage, the reduced benefit direction will apply here until the law here is changed. That means that from July 2008, parents with care here who cannot show good cause for not claiming child benefit will have their benefits reduced by £24·20 a week — they will be £24·20 a week worse off than their counterparts in GB. To avoid that loss, and to keep parents here on a par with those in GB, the Bill must pass through the Assembly before the summer recess. It is obvious that that will not happen if the Bill has to go through a Committee Stage. Although it will be the Assembly that ultimately decides whether the Bill will be granted accelerated passage, the Committee’s view will carry some weight on the Floor.

The Chairperson:
This is a difficult position. The Committee has expressed its concerns to the Minister for Social Development about accelerated passage on several occasions. Indeed, last week, I raised the issue of the number of times that the Minister had requested accelerated passage. We have a straightforward choice. If we agree to accelerated passage, flawed as the process might be, it means that those who are eligible for child maintenance will not lose out in that period of no less than three months, but perhaps longer, if we had to go through a full Committee Stage in the autumn. If we support the request for accelerated passage for the Bill, and it proceeds, it will bypass or short-circuit the normal parliamentary procedures, but the payments will be made in line with the arrangements in GB from 1 July.

The Committee Clerk:
We are not sure about the exact date in July.

The Chairperson:
We have little choice here. I am open to a proposal.

Mr Hilditch:
In light of what we have just been told, I propose that the Committee supports the Minister’s request for accelerated passage for the Bill.

Miss McIlveen:
I second the proposal.

Mr Brady:
I still have reservations. I believe it depends on the number of people who will be affected. Those people whose benefit will be reduced should have some redress in the form of a review or an appeal. There would not be many people affected, unlike the Welfare Reform Bill. I have serious reservations about aspects of the Child Maintenance Bill, and I feel that it should be the subject of a more detailed debate; but that is for the Committee to decide.

The Chairperson:
We must be clear about this matter.

Mr A Maginness:
I understand my colleague’s reservations. I am not sure if he is going to put the matter to a vote, but even if only a few people are adversely affected, that is too many for me. I do not want the Committee to make a decision that will effectively deprive vulnerable people of at least £24 a week, which is a considerable amount of money to a person receiving benefits or on a low income. I do not believe that we should impose additional hardship on people because of some procedural fixation. I appeal to colleagues to be sensible about the matter. We can make protests or criticise the Department about the Bill, but at the same time it is important to assist those who are vulnerable. We should permit accelerated passage process to commence.

Mr F McCann:
That may be the case, and there will be no disagreement on that, certainly not from Mr Brady or myself. However, the difficulty still remains. Quite a number of issues about people’s rights were raised at the Committee meeting last week. This morning, I read that the Joint Committee on Human Rights had previously raised concerns about some aspects of the Bill. This is not about depriving people of money; it is about getting it right, and protecting the thousands of people who will be impacted by the passage of the Bill. I must say that it was Alban who, at the same stage during the passage of the Welfare Reform Bill, was one of the people who castigated us for daring to raise our amendments during a session of the Assembly because the Committee had agreed to accelerated passage for that Bill. The Committee needs to take on board all of the difficulties and problems that this Bill may have in store for people and raise those issues when the Bill comes before the Assembly.

The Chairperson:
To avoid any doubt, the Committee has made known to the Minister, on a number of occasions, that it dislikes requests for support for accelerated passage. Last week, I asked her how many occasions that happened, and I think the answer was four: is that correct?

The Committee Clerk:
Yes.

The Chairperson:
That is four occasions in twelve months. We dislike the principle of accelerated passage, and, to be fair to the Minister, she said that she dislikes it as well, and wants to move away from it. In principle, the Committee wants to get the Minister to the position where she will not, on any occasion, come to the Committee for support for accelerated passage of any Bill, so that we can have the required time to scrutinise, and go through all of the Committee procedures to ensure that Bills have been adequately scrutinised and properly vetted through parliamentary procedures. That is the position at which we want to arrive. That point has been well made.

The position today is that if, in an endeavour to get to that situation, we do not support the request for accelerated passage, then our failure to do so, regardless of the pedantic nature of the process, will mean that a small number of people will be deprived of benefits. That is the position. I do not say that in a pejorative way, but that is the position. If we vote in that way, a small number of people will be deprived. It may well be for legitimate reasons, for reasons that we have spelt out to the Minister, but that will be the reality.

The proposal is that we support the Minister’s request for accelerated passage —

Mr Brady:
I will make one final point, because I think that it needs to be emphasised. Surely the issue of people’s benefit being reduced highlights the fundamental flaw in the child support legislation, because what has happened, and has happened from day one, is that the caring parent, the parent who is actually looking after the children, is penalised — not the father or partner who has gone off and who is refusing to pay maintenance. The situation, in which the person who is looking after the children and has all the financial burden of that is penalised, while the other person gets off with it, is ridiculous. I have reservations about that, but I will go with the decision of the Committee.

The Chairperson:
This session is being recorded, so everyone’s comments will be recorded for the Minister to take into account. However, the proposal is that we support the Minister’s request —

Mr A Maginness:
On a point of order, Mr Chairman, may I ask if the vote that is taking place here —

The Chairperson:
Assuming that we have a vote —

Mr A Maginness:
There may not be a vote. I will reserve my comment for when there is a vote to be taken.

The Chairperson:
The proposal is that the Committee supports the request from the Minister for accelerated passage for the Child Maintenance Bill. There being no other proposals at the moment, are members content to proceed?

Members indicated assent.

The Chairperson:
In that case, we will have a vote. Alban, you said you wanted to make a comment before the vote is taken.

Mr A Maginness:
Is a vote in Committee decided on cross-community support or on a simple majority?

The Chairperson:
Simple majority — the Committee has had only one vote in 12 months. There being dissent on the matter, we will have a vote.

Question That the Committee supports the Minister’s request that the Child Maintenance Bill is granted accelerated passage put.

The Committee divided.

AYES

The Chairperson, Mr Craig, Mr Hilditch, Miss McIlveen, Mr A Maginness.

NOES

Mr Brady, Mr F McCann

Question accordingly agreed to.