COMMITTEE FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT  

OFFICIAL REPORT
(Hansard)

Draft Mesothelioma, etc. Bill

Members present for all or part of the proceedings:
Mr David Hilditch (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Mickey Brady
Mr Thomas Burns
Mr Jonathan Craig
Ms Anna Lo
Mr Fra McCann
Miss Michelle McIlveen

Witnesses:
Ms Margaret Ritchie ) Minister for Social Development
Mr Gerry McCann ) Department for Social Development
Mr John O’Neill )

The Deputy Chairperson (Mr Hilditch):
I welcome the Minister and her departmental officials, Mr John O’Neill and Mr Gerry McCann, who will brief the Committee on the draft mesothelioma, etc., Bill.

The Minister for Social Development (Ms Ritchie):
I am pleased to have the opportunity to meet the Committee about this important Bill. My officials briefed the Committee on the proposals for the Bill on 17 April 2008, and I propose to introduce First Stage of the Bill to the Assembly on Tuesday 20 May 2008.

In light of our earlier useful discussion on the options for the Committee’s scrutiny of future parity Bills, I know that Committee members are aware of the constraints of parity, both about what is operationally possible, given the common computer systems, and, crucially, the substantial funding that we receive from Great Britain to enable us to pay benefits.

The Bill provides for lump-sum payments to be made to those suffering from diffuse mesothelioma without the need to establish an occupational link, or, indeed, any causal link. I am sure that everyone will agree that it is a particularly awful disease. Given that it has a long latency period, but life expectancy is short following its diagnosis, the aim of the Bill is to provide payments within a matter of weeks of diagnosis.

When a person dies before a payment is made, that person’s dependants will be able to claim under the scheme. The scheme is expected to benefit those who cannot claim compensation, including women who were exposed to asbestos from washing their partners’ clothes, those who were self-employed and those who cannot establish any occupational or causal link. That means that everyone who has contracted or contracts mesothelioma will be eligible for a lump-sum payment within a matter of weeks of diagnosis.

The Bill provides for payments under the Bill and the Pneumoconiosis, etc., (Workers’ Compensation) ( Northern Ireland) Order 1979 to be recoverable from subsequent civil compensation. Any moneys recovered will be ploughed back into the scheme with the aim of funding higher payments in the future.

The amount payable under the scheme is expected initially to be set at approximately £6,000. As money starts to be recovered from civil compensation, it is hoped that the payments will increase in the coming years to match the amount payable under the 1979 Order, which is currently approximately £18,000.

Any person who has already received civil compensation, compensation under the 1979 Order or who receives compensation from this Bill will not be eligible for a further lump-sum payment under the Bill.

The Bill provides for the appeals system, which applies to social security benefits, to apply to the determination of claims by the Department under the Bill, which gives a claimant a right of appeal to an appeal tribunal and a subsequent right of appeal to a commissioner on a point of law.

The Bill has been the subject of a full equality impact assessment, which did not identify any adverse or potentially adverse impacts.

Although the proposals will particularly benefit those who are unable to establish an occupational link — for example, a woman who contracted diffuse mesothelioma from washing her partner’s clothes — the Department has concluded that the proposals will not have significant implications for equality of opportunity.

It is necessary to seek accelerated passage of the Bill under standing order 40 because the main purpose of the Bill is to get faster compensation to sufferers of mesothelioma. That is important, given their short life expectancy from diagnosis, which, on average, is approximately nine months.

Subject to the Assembly’s approval of the Bill, our aim is to maintain parity of timing with Great Britain and to make the first payments by October 2008. Were the Bill to be subject to the full legislative procedure, there can be no guarantee of it completing its passage through the Assembly and receiving Royal Assent in time to allow payments to be made by October 2008.

The consequence of accelerated passage not being granted is that there could be a significant delay in making payments to sufferers in Northern Ireland of what is a terrible disease. In the circumstances, that would be difficult to justify, and I, as Minister, would not want to have to do so.

I trust that I have adequately outlined the purpose of the Bill and why we need to seek accelerated passage. We have already discussed at length the handling of future parity Bills, and we will consider any future Bill on its own merits when considering the use of the accelerated passage procedure. Therefore, the granting of accelerated passage for this Bill would not be taken as establishing a precedent.

For the reason that I outlined, I hope that the Committee will support my request for accelerated passage. Thank you, Deputy Chairperson and members of the Committee. I am sure that you all recognise the difficult and pressing issues, such as the nature of the illness and the short life expectancy after diagnosis that lead me to request accelerated passage.

Mr Craig:
I, for one, fully agree with the Minister. Unfortunately, several of my colleagues were diagnosed with the illness, and the Minister is correct that the time from diagnosis to death is extremely short. I agree with her that the quicker the Bill goes through, the better for all concerned, and she has my full backing.

I listened carefully to what the Minister said about the Bill. I welcome the fact that the scope of the Bill is extended to incorporate the secondary cases of which we are all aware. Will the Bill, as the Minister hinted, raise payments to levels similar to those under the Pneumoconiosis, etc., (Workers’ Compensation) ( Northern Ireland) Order 1979?

The Minister for Social Development:
I acknowledge your comments, and I agree that the sooner payments can be made, the better it will be for sufferers from mesothelioma and their families, who are in great distress. John will describe the technicalities associated with the level of payment.

Mr John O’Neill (Department for Social Development):
We are considering an initial payment of approximately £6,000. Under the 1979 Order, the payment would be £18,000, but no additional money is available. Therefore, money must be recovered through civil compensation. The arrangement with Great Britain is to pool the money recovered from GB and Northern Ireland so that the money will be available immediately to make all the payments in Northern Ireland.

When the Department estimated how much would be recovered in Northern Ireland, it was thought that there could be a shortfall. That would have meant that we would not have been able to pay out the same amount in Northern Ireland, but the pooling arrangement allows us to draw on the money recovered in Great Britain to ensure that we can. It is hoped that the money from civil compensation recovery will increase to enable us to raise the level of payment, under this proposal, to £18,000, to match the current level in the 1979 Order.

The Minister for Social Development:
My officials worked closely with the Department for Work and Pensions to secure the pooling arrangement that will ensure that people in Northern Ireland will be able to receive the same rate as those in Great Britain. Urgency is the crucial consideration.

Mr Brady:
I thank the Minister and her officials for their presentation. I agree with Jonathan that the Bill deserves to receive accelerated passage, because the illness has a long incubation period but a short life expectancy after diagnosis. As someone who is still in learning mode in the Assembly, it strikes me as interesting that this Committee has dealt with several requests for accelerated passage. However, when the Minister of the Environment requested accelerated passage for the Local Government (Boundaries) Bill, many of your colleagues and other parties were extremely exercised, and they spent a long time arguing against it. Is a trend developing?

The Minister for Social Development:
I am sure that you are making a purely political point, Mr Brady.

Mr Brady:
Absolutely not.

The Minister for Social Development:
You are turning my argument back on me, and you are free to do so, because we live and operate in a totally democratic system. However, social security legislation is unique because of parity with Great Britain.

Mr Burns:
I thank the Minister for attending today. Mr O’Neill mentioned an initial payment of £6,000 to people diagnosed with mesothelioma. What additional weekly payments would they receive?

Mr J O’Neill:
Mesothelioma is an industrial disease; therefore, industrial injuries disablement benefit is payable to those with an occupational link. Depending on the level of disability, the individual concerned may be entitled to disability living allowance or attendance allowance, having taken the mobility component or the care component into consideration.

Mr Burns:
I agree with Jonathan. The benefits are time-limited between diagnosis and time of death, and people are not able to do very much for themselves. The quicker the benefit is given to those people, the better.

Mr J O’Neill:
The sum of £6,000 is intended to help that person in the remaining period of his or her life. More money may come along later as the result of a civil claim, but those claims take considerably longer than nine months. The idea is to make some cash available to the individual concerned as quickly as possible, so that problems of recovery, and so on, can be sorted out while the civil claim is being processed by the courts.

The Minister for Social Development:
The fundamental point is that no one in a state of medical distress as a result of this condition should go without the entitlements that they deserve.

The Deputy Chairperson:
I thank the Minister and her officials for their attendance this morning.

The Minister for Social Development:
Thank you, Mr Deputy Chairperson, and members. As always, I look forward to our discussions. I am sure that members will not disagree that our purpose is to have the fullest discussion, participation and engagement possible. Those are the very elements of a democracy.

The Deputy Chairperson:
Are members content to permit accelerated passage for the draft mesothelioma, etc., Bill?

Members indicated assent.