Public Accounts Committee

Report on
Combating Organised Crime

Together with the Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee
Relating to the Report and the Minutes of Evidence

Ordered by The Public Accounts Committee to be printed 3 June 2010
Report: NIA 63/09/10R Public Accounts Committee

Session 2009/2010

Seventeenth Report

Membership and Powers

The Public Accounts Committee is a Standing Committee established in accordance with Standing Orders under Section 60(3) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998. It is the statutory function of the Public Accounts Committee to consider the accounts, and reports on accounts laid before the Assembly.

The Public Accounts Committee is appointed under Assembly Standing Order No. 56 of the Standing Orders for the Northern Ireland Assembly. It has the power to send for persons, papers and records and to report from time to time. Neither the Chairperson nor Deputy Chairperson of the Committee shall be a member of the same political party as the Minister of Finance and Personnel or of any junior minister appointed to the Department of Finance and Personnel.

The Committee has 11 members including a Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson and a quorum of 5.

The membership of the Committee since 9 May 2007 has been as follows:

Mr Paul Maskey³ (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)

The Lord Browne ⁹
Mr John Dallat
Mr David Hilditch ⁷Mr Trevor Lunn
Mr Patsy McGlone ^2,6
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Mr Stephen Moutray ¹⁰Ms Dawn Purvis
Mr Jim Shannon ⁵

¹ Mr Mickey Brady replaced Mr Willie Clarke on 1 October 2007
¹ Mr Ian McCrea replaced Mr Mickey Brady on 21 January 2008
¹ Mr Jim Wells replaced Mr Ian McCrea on 26 May 2008
² Mr Thomas Burns replaced Mr Patsy McGlone on 4 March 2008
³ Mr Paul Maskey replaced Mr John O'Dowd on 20 May 2008
⁴ Mr George Robinson replaced Mr Simon Hamilton on 15 September 2008
⁵ Mr Jim Shannon replaced Mr David Hilditch on 15 September 2008
⁶Mr Patsy McGlone replaced Mr Thomas Burns on 29 June 2009
⁷ Mr David Hilditch replaced Mr George Robinson on 18 September 2009
⁸ Rt Hon Jeffrey Donaldson replaced Mr Jim Wells on 18 September 2009
⁹The Lord Browne replaced Rt Hon Jeffrey Donaldson on 19 April 2010
¹⁰ Mr Stephen Moutray replaced Mr Jonathan Craig on 19 April 2010

List of abbreviations used in the Report

List of Abbreviations used in the Report

C&AG - Comptroller and Auditor General

DARD - Department for Agriculture and Rural Development

DEL - Department of Employment and Learning

DETI - Department for Enterprise, Trade and Investment

DFP - Department of Finance and Personnel

DHSSPS - Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety

DOE - Department of the Environment

GLA - Gangmasters Licensing Agency

HMRC - HM Revenue and Customs

IT - Information Technology

NIEA - Northern Ireland Environment Agency

NIO - Northern Ireland Office

OFMDFM - Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister

PSNI - Police Service of Northern Ireland

SOCA - Serious Organised Crime Agency

SSA - Social Security Agency

Executive Summary

1. Organised crime is, and is likely to remain, a major national and international phenomenon from which Northern Ireland is not immune. Tackling it effectively requires close co-operation at all levels, whether locally, nationally and increasingly internationally. The Committee recognises that the primary responsibility for tackling some crimes, such as oils fraud, does not fall to devolved Northern Ireland departments and public bodies. Nevertheless, a number of departments and public bodies do have an important role to play in supporting bodies such as HMRC through the energetic use of their powers to regulate, licence and enforce.

2. It is evident, both from the Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum and the evidence presented by the various witnesses, that organised crime has many facets and its impact on individuals, communities, society and the environment can be, and is, devastating. Human trafficking is a particularly heinous form of organised crime which is growing in Northern Ireland. It causes misery to many, especially vulnerable women and children, who have been falsely enticed here by the prospects of employment, education and a better life, only to find themselves the victims of domestic servitude or sexual exploitation.

3. The high cost of legitimately disposing of waste makes it an attractive area for criminals and unscrupulous individuals to exploit. Illegal dumping has significant environmental consequences as the release of pollutants can continue to be a major environmental problem for many years. It also carries a very significant financial impact, both through loss of revenue and clean-up costs. This is money that is both needed and could better be used for essential front-line services.

4. Oil fraud too has a serious impact on the environment, through the clean-up of residues dumped after fuel-laundering, as well as causing damage to engines, undermining legitimate business and entailing major loss of public revenue supporting expenditure programmes here.

5. Organised crime benefits no one except, in the short-term, the perpetrators. It is a form of fraud that goes to the very heart of public finances and threatens the Executive's overarching aim of achieving "a peaceful, fair and prosperous society in Northern Ireland, with respect for the rule of law and where everyone can enjoy a better quality of life now and in years to come".

6. Vigilance should be the watchword of the public sector and the key message to those involved in organised crime should be that it will not be tolerated and it will not pay. The Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum makes it clear that, in order to counter organised crime effectively, all public sector bodies need to work in partnership, share information and co-ordinate their activities. To do so they need to be briefed on known or suspected organised crime threats against their programmes of expenditure and on ways in which their powers to regulate, license and enforce may play an important role in combating it.

7. The Committee heard positive reports about the co-ordinating role and work of the Organised Crime Task Force and examples of cross-border co-operation, both of which are vital in tackling all forms of organised crime. However, in the Committee's view the work of the Northern Ireland departments needs to be properly co-ordinated through the re-establishment of a mechanism such as the Inter Departmental Working Group on Organised Crime and widening the scope of the Fraud Forum.

8. In addition, it is vital that more is done to raise public awareness; the dangers of organised crime need to be continually highlighted. The principle is, "if it looks too good a bargain, it probably is".

9. On a more positive note, the Committee is encouraged by the work of the Department of the Environment and the Northern Ireland Environment Agency in tackling illegal dumping. The Committee commends the Department's determination to prosecute offenders and its use of confiscation orders to deprive them of assets acquired through criminal acts. This demonstrates what can be done with focus, determination and the necessary funding and sends a clear and unambiguous message of zero tolerance which this Committee supports.

10. Given the major threat posed by organised crime and that a number of recommendations relate to policing and justice, the Committee is referring the Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum and Note to the Northern Ireland Assembly's Justice Committee. The Committee also asks the Comptroller and Auditor General to keep this area under review.

Summary of Recommendations

Recommendation 1

1. The Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum and Note contain a number of detailed recommendations aimed at improving the effectiveness of the public sector's understanding of, and ability to, tackle organised crime. While a number of these are addressed to bodies, such as HMRC, which fall outside the Executive's and Assembly's jurisdiction, many are directed to Northern Ireland departments and public bodies. The Committee recommends that these departments and public bodies give careful consideration to these as well as the Committee's own recommendations.

Recommendation 2

2. Given the major threat posed by organised crime, the Committee recommends that the Department for Justice considers the re-establishment of an Inter-departmental Working Group to promote awareness and greater partnership working in departments and the wider public sector.

Recommendation 3

3. The Committee recommends that the scope of the Fraud Forum is extended to cover organised crime; it is important that fraud investigation officers from all departments and relevant public sector bodies are briefed and informed on the threats posed by organised crime and have an opportunity to seek and share advice and co-ordinate their work.

Recommendation 4

4. The Committee recommends that, in developing policy and bringing forward legislation, departments consider carefully the merits of building in flexibility so that new and emerging threats can be countered quickly. This should include, in the case of drugs, the ability to 'spot-list'.

Recommendation 5

5. The Committee recommends that departments research and consider, in conjunction with the Information Commissioner, how information and data held by them can be best utilised and shared for the purpose of tackling organised crime.

Introduction

1. The Public Accounts Committee met on 22 April 2010 to consider a Memorandum[1] from the Comptroller and Auditor General on "Combating Organised Crime". The main witnesses were:

Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris, Police Service of Northern Ireland;
Detective Chief Superintendent Roy McComb, Police Service of Northern Ireland;
Mr Leo O'Reilly, Accounting Officer, Department of the Environment;
Ms Anne Blacker, Environmental Crime Unit, Northern Ireland Environment Agency;
Ms Fiona Hamill, Treasury Officer of Accounts, Department of Finance and Personnel; and
Mr Kieran Donnelly, Comptroller and Auditor General.

2. In taking evidence on the Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum and accompanying Detailed Note, the Committee focussed on those matters which are the direct responsibility of the Assembly and Executive in terms of:

the nature and scale of organised crime in Northern Ireland;
the impact of particular forms of organised crime on different sectors of the economy and society;
measures taken by Northern Ireland departments; and
additional measures that could be taken to combat organised crime.

The Nature and Scale of Organised Crime
in Northern Ireland

3. Fundamentally, organised crime is all but impossible to quantify with complete accuracy because of its very nature: covert, often sophisticated and professional. However, Appendix 1 provides a broad assessment of the nature and scale of organised crime in Northern Ireland, together with estimated costs and whether the particular crimes are considered to be rising or falling. Responsibility for tackling these crimes is, in many cases, shared, often involving bodies with a UK-wide remit such as Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) and the Serious and Organised Crime Agency, working in co-operation with international as well as local partners. Furthermore, crimes, such as fuel laundering and fuel duty evasion, should not be viewed in isolation as they have an impact on the environment as well as undercutting businesses in Northern Ireland and the revenues on which public expenditure here is funded.

4. The international nature of organised crime is most evident in human trafficking and counterfeiting. The Committee is disturbed by the increasing evidence of human trafficking, a heinous crime which preys on the vulnerability of individuals, often women and children, who are lured by the prospect of a new life, better education and a job, only to find themselves in what amounts to slavery and subject to sexual exploitation. The Committee was told that the sexual exploitation of these individuals is prevalent across Northern Ireland. The Committee welcomes and endorses the introduction of new legislation which will focus on those who use and abuse these vulnerable individuals.

5. The PSNI described how counterfeiting is a major problem involving international and local criminals and poses significant risks to the health and safety of individuals. The Committee is particularly alarmed to hear of the dangers posed by overheating counterfeit electrical goods exploding in the hands of users and the use of carcinogenic substances in counterfeit washing powders. The Committee notes with concern that every fake DVD a person buys, thinking they are getting a bargain, helps to continue human exploitation somewhere in the world.

6. Oils fraud - fuel laundering, stretching and smuggling – has historically been one of the biggest forms of organised crime here. Through work undertaken largely by HMRC, it now appears to be on a reducing trend – showing that organised crime can be countered by determined and focused effort. But it remains a major threat to the environment, legitimate business and the revenue base upon which public expenditure is funded. Northern Ireland departments, notably the Department for Enterprise, Trade and Investment and the Department of the Environment, and district councils have important roles to play in providing essential support to HMRC through their regulatory and enforcement functions. The Committee expects these responsibilities to be actively discharged in co-operation with HMRC.

Risk of money laundering

7. Money laundering is present in much of organised crime, as criminals usually have to find ways of disguising the proceeds of their crime. It is possible that government departments and public bodies may be used for this purpose. The Committee welcomes the assurances given by the Department of Finance and Personnel that departments and their arms length bodies are clear about their responsibilities in relation to money laundering and have appointed Money Lending Reporting Officers where a need has been identified.

Risk to IT systems

8. Technology-enabled crime, such as identity theft, is an area that is expected to grow. It is important, given the significant volume of personal data held and processed by public bodies, that the general public is confident that this is protected and held securely. Evidence to the Committee provides reassurance that the security of personal data is being taken seriously within the Northern Ireland Civil Service through, for example, the appointment of senior information-risk officers, accreditation of networks and encryption of laptops.

9. The Committee is concerned, however, that a wide range of other public sector bodies, for example in the education and health sectors, also hold such information. The Committee seeks an assurance that similar safeguards are in place in all cases where sensitive or personal data is held by public bodies or companies acting on their behalf.

Impact of Organised Crime on Different Sectors
of the Economy and Society

Impact of illegal dumping

10. Illegal dumping is prevalent in every county in Northern Ireland but especially in rural, remote or industrial areas. The problem, which has been previously highlighted by both the Northern Ireland Audit Office[2] and the Westminster Public Accounts Committee[3], arose initially from the differentials in landfill taxes between the UK and the Republic of Ireland. According to the Department of the Environment, the main financial driver for those currently involved is tax avoidance, i.e. disposing of waste without paying landfill tax or any other charges associated with its legal disposal.

11. The financial incentive is significant. At current rates, a potential £65 of tax revenue can be evaded when a tonne of 'active' waste is illegally dumped instead of being disposed of by landfill. With an estimated 1.7 million tonnes of construction, demolition and excavation waste a year being dumped illegally, the revenue lost to Government amounts to tens of millions of pounds a year; this figure does not include loss of earnings to the legitimate waste industry that could have legally dealt with the waste concerned.

12. The Department can only estimate the scale of the problem. Since it started to investigate illegal waste management it:

has successfully secured 381 convictions, which broadly correlates to one per site;
is aware that there are 20 sites containing solely waste from Republic of Ireland amounting to around 250,000 tonnes of municipal-type waste - to put this into context, a small Northern Ireland Council deals with around 10,000 tonnes of municipal waste a year; and
has previously estimated that up to 1.7 million tonnes of construction, demolition and excavation waste (over 40 per cent of the typical annual total of this waste stream produced) each year is illegally dumped.

13. The Department informed the Committee that the large scale illegal dumping of waste from the Republic of Ireland is no longer occurring. The Committee is, however, particularly concerned at the extent of the illegal disposal of Northern Ireland construction, demolition and excavation waste and that this is increasingly being carried out by authorised waste carriers and site operators.

14. The Department advised the Committee that most of the waste illegally managed is considered to be non-hazardous. Nevertheless, there are significant environmental and potential human health impacts associated with it. Evidence to the Committee shows that these are not short-term: illegal landfill presents a long-term pollution problem. As a result the costs of cleaning-up an illegal waste site can run into millions of pounds. For example, the 20 illegal waste sites referred to in paragraph 12, will cost an estimated 85 million euro over the next five years to clear-up. These costs will be shared between the Republic of Ireland government and the Executive with Northern Ireland contributing 15 million euro.

Tackling illegal dumping

15. The Committee is concerned at the Department's slowness to get a grip of this problem when it first manifested itself. The above example also highlights the importance of crime-proofing policies; in this case the potential risks should have been identified when landfill taxes were being introduced and relevant and robust controls put in place to manage these and plug any areas that could have been exploited by organised criminals.

16. However, the Committee welcomes the action now being taken by the Department of the Environment to tackle this problem, such as testing the use of satellite imagery to identify illegal waste sites, and the development of an intelligence-based approach which will allow better targeting of resources on those who are organising the activity.

17. Evidence to the Committee also highlights the success of pursuing legal remedies. In particular, the use of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002, which gave the Department powers to conduct financial investigations and to confiscate assets, is a potentially more effective approach which deprives criminals of any benefit and also deters others. The Department, working with the Serious and Organised Crime Agency, has experienced considerable success, securing almost £1.3 million through the use of confiscation orders over the past three years. The Committee notes that the Department is currently recruiting additional investigation staff. Given the scale of the problem and the long lead-in time to skill-up, it may be several more years before these staff are fully effective. Nevertheless, the Department's actions demonstrate what can be done with focus, determination and the necessary funding.

Tackling extortion

18. The Committee notes the PSNI's assessment that the nature of extortion has changed with less evidence of extortion in the building industry, but evidence of criminals extorting money from fellow criminals (so called "bad-on-bad"). Nevertheless, public bodies must still be alert to it when awarding and managing construction contracts. The Committee is concerned that the Construction Contract Monitor Scheme appears to be costly to operate and the pilot has still to be evaluated. The Committee looks forward to receiving DFP's evaluation of the Scheme.

19. The Committee also notes the growing problem of extortion among minority groups, particularly in the newer immigrant communities, and welcomes the PSNI's consideration of introducing an outreach programme. In the Committee's view it is important that people who arrive in Northern Ireland feel confident to report a crime and ask for help.

Measures Taken by Government Departments
and Law Enforcement Agencies

Raising public sector awareness

20. While a number of positive practical examples of inter-agency and cross-border co-operation were given by the PSNI and Department of the Environment, the Committee believes that much more needs to be done to raise awareness throughout the public sector and encourage greater partnership working.

21. The Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum makes it clear that in order to counter organised crime effectively all public bodies must work in partnership to maximise co-operation and co-ordination. Even where the lead in countering organised crime falls to law enforcement agencies such as the PSNI or HMRC, they will be able to discharge this effectively only if they enjoy the full co-operation of Northern Ireland departments, for example, through effectively exercising their regulatory, licensing and enforcement responsibilities.

Recommendation 1

22. The Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum and Note contain a number of detailed recommendations[4] aimed at improving the effectiveness of the public sector's understanding of, and ability to, tackle organised crime. While a number of these are addressed to bodies, such as HMRC, which fall outside the Executive's and Assembly's jurisdiction, many are directed to Northern Ireland departments and public bodies. The Committee recommends that these departments and public bodies give careful consideration to these as well as the Committee's own recommendations.

23. The Committee endorses the concept of an Inter-departmental Working Group. In the past this Group had been an effective mechanism providing Northern Ireland departments with a link into the Organised Crime Task Force's intelligence on known or suspected organised crime threats and how their powers to regulate, licence and enforce may play an important role in counteracting these threats. However, the Committee is concerned that the existing Group has not met for several years. In effect this has left Northern Ireland departments largely unsighted and uninformed as to the changing threat of organised crime and how they can help counter it. This has, in the Committee's view, resulted in an uncoordinated and disjointed strategic response within departments.

Recommendation 2

24. Given the major threat posed by organised crime, the Committee recommends that the Department for Justice considers the re-establishment of an Inter-departmental Working Group to promote awareness and greater partnership working in departments and the wider public sector.

25. Departments and public bodies are not immune from organised criminal activity; this is evident from a number of the case studies in the Detailed Note accompanying the Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum. However, the Fraud Forum, chaired by the Department of Finance and Personnel, provides an opportunity to brief and inform fraud investigation officers on the threats posed by organised crime. In the Committee's view this is important as it gives these practitioners an opportunity to seek and share advice with each other and to co-ordinate their work.

Recommendation 3

26. The Committee recommends that the scope of the Fraud Forum is extended to cover organised crime; it is important that fraud investigation officers from all departments and relevant public sector bodies are briefed and informed on the threats posed by organised crime and have an opportunity to seek and share advice and co-ordinate their work.

Additional Measures Taken to Combat
Organised Crime

Adequacy of regulation and licensing and raising public awareness

27. The Committee is concerned at the lengthy delay in bringing Northern Ireland's road haulage licensing regime into line with GB and notes that full arrangements will not be in place until 2012. The Committee considers that this delay has impacted adversely on departments' ability to tackle organised crime.

28. Organised crime has the ability to move swiftly to change its focus and exploit new areas for profit. This is particularly evident in the field of drugs and 'legal highs'. In the Committee's view it is important that legislation is designed to be flexible and capable of being put in place quickly to counter new and emerging threats. The Committee noted examples from the USA and New Zealand where legal substances, open to abuse, have been 'spot-listed'[5] through emergency procedures.

Recommendation 4

29. The Committee recommends that, in developing policy and bringing forward legislation, departments consider carefully the merits of building in flexibility so that new and emerging threats can be countered quickly. This should include, in the case of drugs, the ability to 'spot-list'.5

30. A key theme emerging from the evidence presented to the Committee is the importance of pooling information and intelligence if organised crime is to be tackled successfully, along the lines described in the Comptroller and Auditor General's Memorandum (paragraphs 30-34) and Note (paragraphs 4.9-4.16).

31. Organised criminals do not limit their activities so it is possible that they are involved in other areas of fraud. Tackling this requires a joined-up approach through, for example, the intelligent and frequent interrogation of databases for patterns and consistency and the investigation of these. The Committee is also aware of the work being taken forward under the auspices of the National Fraud Initiative; this involves checking the consistency of data held by a number of departments and bodies with a view to detecting fraud. The evidence presented by the Department of Finance and Personnel which has, to date, identified some 750 frauds through participating in the Initiative, demonstrates the effectiveness of such an approach.

Recommendation 5

32. The Committee recommends that departments research and consider, in conjunction with the Information Commissioner, how information and data held by them can be best utilised and shared for the purpose of tackling organised crime.

Annexe 1: Trends in Organised Crime

Annexe 1:
Main types of organised crime; costs and whether rising or falling

Type	Activity	Cost/Loss	Body responsible*	Rising/Falling
Oils	Non UK Duty paid including Fuel Laundering and Cross Border smuggling due to differential duty	£250m	HMRC; DETI; District Councils	ñ
Cigarettes	Smuggling, estimated at 15% of sales in NI of counterfeits	£7m	HMRC; DETI; DHSSPS	ó
Alcohol	Smuggling	Seizure figures only	HMRC; PSNI; DSD	ò
Counterfeiting & Intellectual Property Crime	Faking of goods	£200m	PSNI; DETI; DHSSPS	ñ
Armed Robbery and Cash in Transit	Theft	Number of crimes only known	PSNI	ó
Drugs	Supply of illegal drugs	No reliable measure; £25m possibility	PSNI; NIO; DHSSPS; HMRC; SOCA	ó
Human Trafficking	Migrants for illegal work, including sex industry	No reliable measure	DEL; DARD; GLA; UKBA; PSNI; SOCA; NIO; OFMDFM	ñ
VAT & IT fraud	Carousel fraud; abuse of tax credits	No estimate	HMRC; SOCA	ó
ID theft	Used in illegal activity	No estimate	All departments	ñ
Money Laundering	Hiding the proceeds of crime	No estimate	DETI; SOCA; DFP; PSNI	ó
Extortion1	Extracting money by threats	£10m	PSNI; DFP	ñ
Illegal dumping2	Dumping of waste from (1) the Republic of Ireland due to differential rates of tax; and (2) from construction sites in Northern Ireland	No overall estimate	DOE;NIEA; PSNI; HMRC; NIO	ô
Tax evasion in construction sector	Use of "lump" system; extortion; tax scams	No overall estimate	HMRC; DETI; DFP; PSNI; NIHE;	ó
Social Security	Fraud	£18m per annum	SSA	ò

Source: NIAO Memorandum * see list of abbreviations

Notes:

1. Less evidence of extortion in the building industry, but increasing extortion in other areas, including criminals extorting other criminals ("bad-on-bad").

2. Dumping of waste from the Republic of Ireland is decreasing. In contrast the illegal dumping of waste from construction sites in Northern Ireland is increasing.

Anticipated new areas of increasing organised crime activity

Type of crime	Activity
Foreign National Crime	Crimes brought or managed from 'home', for example human trafficking
Technology enabled	Use of IT; Identity theft

Annexe 2: Information Relating to Recommendation 1

Annexe 2

Summary of the Comptroller and Auditor General's Recommendations relating to Northern Ireland departments and other bodies contained in the Detailed Note accompanying his Memorandum to the Committee of Public Accounts.

(Since these recommendations were written, responsibility for policing and justice has been transferred from the NIO to the Department of Justice, therefore some recommendations may now fall to it.)

THESE ARE Not for Individual Response to the Committee in moR.

Recommendations in Part 1

i. The NIO should lead a review involving HMRC, PSNI, SOCA and appropriate representatives of the criminal justice system to maximise practical co-ordination in relation to oils crime and organised crime more generally (paragraph 1.6.7, page 12).

ii. PSNI and HMRC should take steps constantly to ensure that co-operation remains at a high level (paragraph 1.6.12, page 13).

iii. We note that SOCA can provide national risk assessments on money laundering trends and SAR related issues, including providing alerts on up-to-date criminal financial activity and sectoral threats. Northern Ireland Departments should put in place arrangements to tap into the strategic information held by SOCA (paragraph 1.6.32, page 16).

iv. DFP should invite the PSNI to assess areas of the public sector at risk of money-laundering and ensure the appointment of MLROs accordingly (paragraph 1.6.32, page 16).

v. Professional bodies must remain vigilant and rigorous in enforcing compliance of their members with professional standards (paragraph 1.7, page 17).

vi. Awareness events for professional and business bodies should continue, and consideration be given to extending them on a cross-border basis (paragraph 1.8, page 17).

vii. Greater capability should be developed for evaluating the impact of organised crime, in the public sector in particular. The NIO should consider bringing together experts from the PSNI Analysis Centre with, for example, economists and accountants in the Northern Ireland departments in an ad hoc 'think tank' to resolve the methodological difficulties (paragraphs 1.15-16, page 21).

viii. Ways of forestalling identified growth areas of organised crime should be developed now (paragraph 1.17, pages 21 and 22).

Recommendations in Part 2

i. A statutory power should be considered to enable NIEA to withdraw vehicle operating licenses from those using them for illegal purposes (paragraph 2.2.5, page 27).

ii. NIEA should report findings of illegal dumps on agricultural land to DARD (and other Northern Ireland departments in relevant circumstances) for appropriate investigation (paragraph 2.2.8, page 27).

iii. The NIEA Environment Crime Team requires continuing focused support from senior management in DOE and the wider Civil Service (paragraph 2.2.9, page 28).

iv. DOE and NIEA should take the steps recommended in the CJINI report to ensure that the Agency's enforcement functions are fully supported and integrated with the other work of the NIEA (paragraph 2.2.10, page 28).

v. HMRC should vigorously enforce the new Construction Industry Scheme and adjust it as appropriate in the light of the current effectiveness review (paragraph 2.2.12, page 28).

vi. The impact of the arrangements using the newly conferred powers in relation to regulating and licensing the private security industry should be monitored (paragraph 2.2.15, page 29).

vii. DFP guidance should specify that construction business cases should consider the case for appointing a CCM, bearing in mind factors such as assessed risk and proportionality to the scale of the contract (paragraph 2.2.17, page 29).

viii. The risk of displacement and the effectiveness of CPD's growing focus on both waste disposal and vertical supply chain management, in preventing displacement of extortion to other construction activities, should be monitored (paragraph 2.2.17, pages 29 and 30).

ix. The issue of indemnifying CCMs should be revisited with a view to a positive outcome (paragraph 2.2.17, pages 29 and 30).

Recommendations in Part 3

i. Particular attention should be paid to the three points relating to the operation of the OCTF in paragraph 3.2, page 35.

ii. Central co-ordination amongst, and briefing arrangements within, Northern Ireland departments and public bodies should be reviewed (paragraph 3.3, page 35).

iii. Northern Ireland departments must attach a high priority to countering organised crime (paragraph 3.4, page 35).

iv. The OCTF and IDGOC should review whether their constituent members properly reflect the drive against organised crime in their own business plans, supported by objectives and performance indicators (paragraph 3.5, page 36).

v. The Policing Board and Chief Constable should re-assess the prominence and priority given to combating organised crime in future Policing Plans, not least in supporting the Executive's Programme for Government (paragraph 3.6, page 36).

vi. Departments, the public sector as a whole and private sector interests should adopt and be guided by the principles advanced by the ARA (paragraph 3.7, pages 36 and 37).

vii. There should be an early review by the NIO, OFMDFM and PSNI of whether adequate mechanisms exist between them and Northern Ireland departments to ensure that briefing can be provided to departments, as and when necessary, on developing or emerging threats from organised crime and potential countermeasures (paragraph 3.10, pages 37 and 38).

viii. Appropriate steps should be taken to improve attitudes in Northern Ireland departments towards seeing countering organised crime as a common responsibility requiring co-operation with other departments and law enforcement agencies (paragraph 3.12, page 38).

ix. With a view to fostering better working partnerships between the police and the wider public sector, the NIO and OFMDFM should consider ways to apply relevant provisions of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 in Northern Ireland (paragraph 3.14, page 38 and 39).

x. The availability of resources to counter organised crime should be reviewed by the Chief Constable, the Policing Board and the NIO (paragraph 3.15, page 39).

xi. Local capability for confiscation must be maintained. In addition, the Public Prosecution Service should be appropriately skilled and resourced to discharge its duties in relation to civil confiscation and the question of its access to the Incentivisation Fund resolved in relation to criminal confiscation (paragraph 3.19, page 40).

xii. DFP should examine ways of making more of its potential contribution to combating organised crime (paragraph 3.20, pages 40 and 41).

xiii. North/South mechanisms must be maintained if organised criminals' ability to exploit the border is to be neutralised (paragraph 3.21, page 42).

xiv. The appropriate North/South machinery set up under the Belfast Agreement should be used for systematic reviews to ensure that:

xv. relevant bodies in both jurisdictions are co-operating fully to combat organised crime, and

xvi. relevant policies developed in each jurisdiction are analysed with a view to altering features that might facilitate organised criminal activity (paragraph 3.22, page 42).

Recommendations in Part 4

i. Prosecution and sentencing for organised crime must be such as to exercise a deterrent effect on criminals (paragraph 4.2, page 46).

ii. Regulatory and licensing regimes should be regularly reviewed to determine if appropriate and well-judged assessments have been completed in each area, whether the correct balance has been struck and whether appropriate guidance is in place (paragraph 4.3, page 46).

iii. It is important that proposed developments in certain Northern Ireland department's regulatory and licensing functions be pursued vigorously and as a priority (paragraph 4.4, page 46).

iv. DETI, in conjunction with HMRC and the PSNI, should monitor the effectiveness of the new petroleum retail licensing regime to ensure that it meets the objectives endorsed by the NIAC and IMC (paragraph 4.4.3, page 47).

v. Proposed legislation for strengthening the road haulage licensing regime should be implemented as soon as possible (paragraph 4.4.5, page 47).

vi. The new taxi licensing scheme should be implemented as soon as possible (paragraph 4.4.6, pages 47 and 48).

vii. The new charities regulatory regime, including establishment of a Northern Ireland Charity Commission, should be implemented as soon as possible (paragraph 4.4.8, page 48).

viii. In deciding the way forward on liquor licensing, DSD should consider the concerns raised in paragraph 4.4.9, page 48).

ix. TSS, PSNI and HMRC should review the best deployment of their overall resources and powers in relevant fields with a view to seeing if TSS could enhance its role. If this produced a resource cost, then that should be considered by DETI and DFP (paragraph 4.4.10, page 48).

x. The question of whether the FSA should take over the regulatory function in relation to credit unions should be considered if the growth of credit unions in the Republic of Ireland into mortgage lending were to be replicated in Northern Ireland (paragraph 4.4.11, page 49).

xi. DETI and the PSNI should review whether there should be stricter requirements relating to the preparation of company accounts and qualification standards for book-keepers (paragraph 4.4.12, page 49).

xii. NIO should evaluate the effectiveness of crime proofing, in 12 months time, with a view to making any appropriate adjustments (paragraph 4.5, page 49).

xiii. Efforts by the OCTF and its constituent members to increase levels of public understanding and reporting should be continued, including use of confidential phone lines (paragraph 4.6, pages 49 and 50).

xiv. The NIO should review its response to their consultant's report on public relations initiatives (paragraph 4.7, page 50).

xv. The potential for increased use of data sharing/matching/mining should be fully explored in the ways recommended in paragraphs 4.9 – 4.16, pages 50-53.

xvi. The 'spend to save' principle should be carefully considered in relation to all cases in which additional resources are sought to combat organised crime (paragraph 4.16, pages 52 and 53).

Recommendations not directly applicable to N.I.
Departments or no longer relevant.

Part 1

III. NIO, together with other departments as appropriate, should review the question of adopting the Schengen Agreement's provisions on hot pursuit to reinforce the fight against drugs in particular (paragraph 1.6.24, page 15).

VI. Possible loopholes in arrangements for countering cross-border money laundering should be examined and closed as appropriate (paragraph 1.6.33, page 16).

VII. HMRC should, in due course, evaluate the effectiveness of the Money Laundering Regulations 2007 in reducing abuse of bureaux de change for money laundering (paragraph 1.6.34, page 17).

Part 2

[Evidence provided by the PSNI shows that no one has contacted the extortion helpline since 2007-08 and it may have served its purpose.]

VI. Use of the extortion helpline should continue to be encouraged (paragraph 2.2.14, pages 28 and 29).

[1] The National Audit Office submitted a separate, parallel Memorandum at Westminster, focusing on matters which continue to be the direct responsibility of the UK Government.

[2] Northern Ireland's Waste Management Strategy, HC88, June 2005.

[3] 31st Report, Session 2005-06, March 2006 - Northern Ireland's Waste Management Strategy

[4] See Annexe 2

[5] Spot Listing refers to a new temporary classification of drugs which would enable legal controls on sale and supply to be made where significant public health concerns have been highlighted about a new substance, allowing time for expert input and analysis to be provided to inform decisions on whether a formal classification should be made or not, while addressing immediate public safety risks. This control is also aimed at future trends to stop organised criminals and dealers adjusting substances to get around the law.

Appendix 1

Minutes of Proceedings
of the Committee
Relating to the Report

Thursday, 15 April 2010
Room 144, Parliament Buildings

Present: Mr Paul Maskey (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Trevor Lunn
Mr Patsy McGlone
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Ms Dawn Purvis

Also In Attendance: The Lord Browne

In Attendance: Ms Aoibhinn Treanor (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Phil Pateman (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Danielle Best (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Darren Weir (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr John Dallat
Rt Hon Jeffrey Donaldson MP
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Jim Shannon

2:06 pm The meeting opened in public session.

4. Briefing on the NIAO Memorandum on Combating Organised Crime.

2:20 pm The meeting went into closed session after initial remarks by the C&AG.

The Committee Clerk briefed the Committee on the background and content of legal advice contained in members' packs.

Mr Kieran Donnelly, Comptroller & Auditor General; Mr Brandon McMaster, Director; Mrs Cathy Robinson, Senior Auditor; and Mr Joe Campbell, Audit Manager; briefed the Committee on the report.

The witnesses answered a number of questions put by members.

Agreed: Members agreed to refer the NIAO Memorandum to the Committee for Justice at the conclusion of the Committee's inquiry.

2:53 pm Mr Lunn entered the meeting.

[EXTRACT]

Thursday, 22 April 2010
The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings

Present: Mr Paul Maskey (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
The Lord Browne
Mr John Dallat
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Patsy McGlone
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Ms Dawn Purvis
Mr Jim Shannon

In Attendance: Ms Aoibhinn Treanor (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Phil Pateman (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Danielle Best (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Darren Weir (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Mr Trevor Lunn
Mr Stephen Moutray

2:03 pm The meeting opened in public session.

2. Evidence Session on the 'Memorandum to the Committee of Public Accounts from the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland: Combating Organised Crime'.

The Committee took oral evidence on the above report from:

Mr Leo O'Reilly, Accounting Officer, Department of the Environment (DOE);
Ms Anne Blacker, Head of Environmental Crime Unit, Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA);
Ms Fiona Hamill, Treasury Officer of Accounts, Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP);
Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris, Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI); and
Detective Chief Superintendant Roy McComb, Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI).

2:07 pm Ms Purvis entered the meeting.

2:10 pm Mr Shannon entered the meeting.

3:09 pm Mr McGlone and Mr Shannon left the meeting.

3:12 pm Mr McGlone entered the meeting.

3:25 pm Mr McGlone left the meeting.

3:26 pm Mr Hilditch left the meeting.

4:00 pm Mr McLaughlin left the meeting.

The witnesses answered a number of questions put by the Committee.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to request further information from the witnesses.

[EXTRACT]

Thursday, 29 April 2010
Room 144, Parliament Buildings

Present: Mr Paul Maskey (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
The Lord Browne
Mr John Dallat
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Ms Dawn Purvis
Mr Jim Shannon

In Attendance: Ms Aoibhinn Treanor (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Phil Pateman (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Danielle Best (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Darren Weir (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: Mr David Hilditch
Mr Trevor Lunn
Mr Patsy McGlone
Mr Stephen Moutray

2:07 pm The meeting opened in public session.

7. Issues arising from the oral evidence session on the 'Memorandum to the Committee of Public Accounts from the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland: Combating Organised Crime.'

The Committee considered an issues paper from the oral evidence session on the 'Memorandum to the Committee of Public Accounts from the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland: Combating Organised Crime.'

Agreed: The Committee agreed the issues contained in the paper as discussed.

[EXTRACT]

Thursday, 3 June 2010
Room 144, Parliament Buildings

Present: Mr Paul Maskey (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr John Dallat
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Jim Shannon

In Attendance: Ms Aoibhinn Treanor (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Phil Pateman (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Danielle Best (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Darren Weir (Clerical Officer)

Apologies: The Lord Browne
Mr Trevor Lunn
Mr Patsy McGlone
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Mr Stephen Moutray
Ms Dawn Purvis

2:39 pm the meeting opened in public session.

6. Consideration of the Draft Committee Report on 'Combating Organised Crime'.

Paragraphs 1 – 13 read and agreed.

Paragraph 14 read, amended and agreed.

Paragraphs 15 – 16 read and agreed.

Paragraph 17 read, amended and agreed.

Paragraph 18 – 27 read and agreed.

Paragraph 28 read, amended and agreed.

Paragraphs 29 – 31 read and agreed.

Paragraph 32 read, amended and agreed.

Consideration of the Executive Summary

Paragraph 1 read, amended and agreed.

Paragraphs 2 -10 read and agreed.

Agreed: Members agreed the correspondence for inclusion in the report.

Agreed: Members ordered the report to be printed.

Agreed: Members agreed that the report would be embargoed until 00.01 am on Thursday, 24 June 2010.

Agreed: Members agreed to launch the report with a press release to be agreed at a later meeting, and to participate in a media pre-brief subject to gauging press interest in the matter.

[EXTRACT]

Appendix 2

Minutes of Evidence

22 April 2010

Members present for all or part of the proceedings:

Mr Paul Maskey (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
Lord Browne
Mr John Dallat
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Patsy McGlone
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Ms Dawn Purvis
Mr Jim Shannon

Witnesses:

Ms Anne Blacker		Northern Ireland Environment Agency
Ms Fiona Hamill		Department of Finance and Personnel
Mr Drew Harris Mr Roy McComb		Police Service of Northern Ireland
Mr Leo O'Reilly		Department of the Environment

Also in Attendance:

Mr Kieran Donnelly

Comptroller and Auditor General

1. The Chairperson (Mr P Maskey): I welcome Mr Kieran Donnelly, the Comptroller and Auditor General, who is in attendance with his team from the Audit Office, and I welcome Ms Fiona Hamill, the Treasury Officer of Accounts, from the Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP). I also welcome Lord Browne to his first evidence session of the Public Accounts Committee.

2. We shall hear evidence on the Audit Office's memorandum and the detailed note on combating organised crime. Do any members wish to express an interest in the matter? All members said that they had no interest to declare; I hoped that that would be the answer.

3. We are joined by Mr Leo O'Reilly, the accounting officer for the Department of the Environment (DOE), who is here to respond to the Committee's questions. Welcome, Mr O'Reilly. Please introduce your colleague.

4. Mr Leo O'Reilly (Department of the Environment): Ms Anne Blacker is head of the environmental crime unit in the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA).

5. The Chairperson: We are also joined again by Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris from the PSNI. Drew, you are also welcome. Please introduce your colleague.

6. Mr Drew Harris (Police Service of Northern Ireland): I am accompanied by Detective Chief Superintendent Roy McComb, who is responsible for the organised crime branch in crime operations, on which I lead.

7. The Chairperson: You are both welcome to today's meeting. Ms Fiona Hamill, who is the Treasury Officer of Accounts in the Department of Finance and Personnel, is here to give evidence on behalf of the accounting officer, Stephen Peover, who is out at the moment.

8. People may think that organised crime, because of its criminal nature, has nothing to do with public expenditure. However, it is a form of fraud that, as we have seen from the Audit Office's detailed memorandum, goes to the very heart of public finances and the Executive's Programme for Government. Today's session will differ from conventional PAC sessions as it will be more about information gathering. Nonetheless, we will publish a report when we deliberate after today's meeting and reach our findings.

9. I will pose the first question to Roy McComb. My question will set the scene, and other members will ask questions after that. The Committee needs to get a sense of the scale of the problem, so if we look at table 1 on pages 4 and 5 of the memorandum, we can see that it sets out the main types of organised crime in the North of Ireland and outlines whether those are rising or falling. What is your latest assessment of the steps that the PSNI is taking to assess the harm that is caused by organised crime in the North of Ireland?

10. Mr Roy McComb (Police Service of Northern Ireland): The table gives a fair assessment of the spectrum of organised crime. It is fair to say that, by its nature, organised crime is a pretty insidious activity and, therefore, is difficult to measure accurately. Therefore, the assessments in the table are the best that we can make when working in partnership with the other law enforcement bodies that we are involved with.

11. Although the Police Service leads on a number of matters, such as drugs, extortion and money laundering, we are involved as partners with bodies such as Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC), the Serious Organised Crime Agency (SOCA) and the UK Border Agency. The table represents a fair assessment of the nature of organised crime across Northern Ireland at the moment.

12. I do not feel particularly well qualified to talk about some matters, for example, illegal dumping, but my colleagues will have views on that. However, we work on other matters with the Organised Crime Task Force (OCTF). That work is, in part, how the document came to be compiled. That collaboration and our work with our partners in the Organised Crime Task Force allow us to draw down a lot of information from various people who have different records and different information.

13. I will go through the areas one by one. I am not terribly well qualified to talk about certain areas, such as oils, because the Police Service does not lead on them and does not have a direct involvement. We co-operate with Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs, which specialises in that area, and we support it in dealing with fuel evasion and fuel laundering. Those crimes are not independent crimes that operate without having an impact on other parts of the country. It is probably well known to members that fuel laundering leads to a very detailed level of environmental harm, because the procedures that launderers use to clean the fuel to, apparently, make it legal involve the use of acids and corrosive chemicals. They are not disposed of properly and are dumped in the environment. That has a knock-on effect in other parts of the country.

14. The importation level of contraband cigarettes and counterfeit cigarettes is continuing. The difference is that counterfeit cigarettes are a complete copy of legal cigarettes, whereas contraband cigarettes are simply referred to as "cheap whites", which are, in other words, proper cigarettes that have been brought in from China, Spain or other areas. Alcohol smuggling is not common, but it is often linked to the same people who are involved in cigarette smuggling, because they use the same supply routes to bring the materials into Northern Ireland.

15. Counterfeiting is a difficult area to tackle. People always think that when they buy an item they simply get a bargain. In fact, counterfeiting is very strongly linked to organised crime, and it supports organised crime. For every fake DVD that a person buys, someone, not necessarily in the UK or Ireland but perhaps in China, is being held against their will and is spending 18 or 20 hours copying CDs. Whenever you buy a CD for £3, you might think that you are getting a bargain, but, in fact, you are helping to continue human exploitation somewhere in the world.

16. The organised crime branch leads on the investigation of cash-in-transit robberies, which involve attacks on companies that bring money into banks, post offices and the like. We have a close working relationship with the industry, and we collaborate on making it more difficult for criminals to take advantage of the fact that money is constantly moving around the country. Compared with the same period last year, there has been a little increase in the number of cash-in-transit robberies, but a number of investigations into such robberies are ongoing. The armed robbery of post offices has been identified as a problem, and we are doing our best to address the problem through investigations and by working with the Post Office to make its premises more secure.

17. I take slight issue with the fact that drug-related crime is shown in the table as rising. I am not sure whether that assessment is due to the fact that the memorandum is slightly out of date. Based on seizures and arrests, our assessment is that drug-related crime is declining slightly. However, I will not put too much of a gloss on that. In certain areas, there is a continuing drugs problem. We do not have the level of drugs problems, especially with heroin, that exist Dublin and other parts of the Republic of Ireland, but there is still growth in what are known as "legal highs", such as mephedrone and benzylpiperazine (BZP), which are now illegal. Nevertheless, the market for those types of substances has increased.

18. Human trafficking is slavery by another name, and it should be identified as such. We work alongside the UK Border Agency, and we are part of the Blue Blindfold campaign to highlight the effects of human trafficking in this country. Human trafficking happens, and it is happening in towns and villages around Northern Ireland. It is happening under the watch of people who should be wise enough to see it, but it is not being reported. We are discovering and identifying human trafficking, but it is probable that more of it is happening, so I support the assessment that it is on the rise. However, it is rising from a very low benchmark. By its very nature, it is a difficult crime to measure.

19. I cannot comment on VAT and IT fraud. Identification theft cuts across the knowledge of the Police Service and other Departments, so I will move on. Money laundering is commonly associated with all the crimes that are listed in the table, because, by its very nature, organised crime is about making money. When people have made money, they have to move it on, so money laundering goes hand in fist with the rest of the crimes that are listed in the table.

20. Extortion has changed, not so much in numbers but in type. We see less evidence of extortion in the building industry, but we are seeing more of what we refer to as "bad-on-bad" crime, which involves criminals extorting other criminals, or criminals extorting business people who are not in the building trade. We have conducted a number of investigations recently, and a number are ongoing.

21. I shall defer talking about illegal dumping, tax evasion and social security fraud to colleagues.

22. The Chairperson: Thank you, Roy. You have set the scene well for members to ask questions. A lot of information has been gathered, some of which may be sensitive, but cross-departmental and interagency work is about information sharing. For example, I think that you mentioned that the Organised Crime Task Force worked with Departments such as the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister (OFMDFM). Have you attempted to tackle some of those issues by sharing information with other Departments?

23. Mr McComb: To set the scene, there are three levels to the Organised Crime Task Force. At the top is the stakeholder group, which will be chaired by the Minister of Justice. The middle tranche is the strategy group, and Mr Harris represents the Police Service on that group, and beneath that is a series of working groups, which focus on individual crime types. For example, there is the criminal finance group, a group that deals with robbery, one that deals with legal matters, and a drugs group. They are bespoke entities. There are a number of key workers at that level. Depending on the nature of the crime that is under investigation, Departments are welcome to attend meetings of the various representation levels at each group. However, it would be more appropriate for those at government level to attend meetings of the higher-level strategy groups.

24. The Chairperson: That means that there is scope for information to be shared.

25. Mr McComb: Yes, very much so. The strength of the Organised Crime Task Force is that it builds up the relationship between individual law enforcement government bodies or non-law enforcement government bodies that have a common interest. If wide-scale fraud is being perpetrated across the Province, somebody from outside the Police Service, perhaps, will have a handle on it. If that individual or group has an interest in it or a part to play, we want to be involved with them.

26. The task force allows people to develop relationships, and it allows the building of the trust that is necessary for the proper sharing of information. There are still legal loopholes and proper procedures to be followed, but the first part has been met. We are travelling on the same road, in the same direction and wanting the same thing.

27. The Chairperson: Thank you, Roy. I might come back with some questions later, but I will first open the Floor to questions from members.

28. Mr McGlone: I want to follow up on what you said about extortion. Extortion methods have developed and evolved over a number of years into organised and sophisticated operations on an all-island basis. There are two elements to that. First, an individual may extort money from a businessperson by going to the person and demanding money, or they would accumulate debts and not pay them. By implication, the perpetrator is asking the victim if they know who they are dealing with. By its nature, that type of activity does not recognise borders and, in many cases, plays on the advantages that a border may offer. Will you indicate the level of enhanced or improved co-operation that exists on an all-island basis and, going wider still, internationally?

29. Secondly, and following my former point, is there a sufficient level of resources — that may be the wrong phrase — of a sophisticated type to deal with that problem? In many instances, criminals use sophisticated accounting methods, for want of a better term. Are the mechanisms that can be used to penetrate those methods adequate? Such mechanisms could include forensic accounting, for example.

30. Mr Harris: I will answer that in the context of the all-island co-operation that exists between the PSNI and An Garda Síochána. An intergovernmental agreement, which was signed in 2002, is the basis on which police co-operation is founded. From that, the Chief Constable and the Garda Commissioner can sign off on memorandums of understanding of how we take joint working forward together. We have very good co-operation with An Garda Síochána. We have worked through memorandums of understanding on intelligence sharing and joint investigations, which involve parallel investigations running in both jurisdictions. Decisions have to be made at critical points as to which jurisdiction is the most appropriate to mount a prosecution, how to manage the evidence flow and how that evidence should be passed from one jurisdiction to another. Decisions also have to be made about sharing information that relates to forensic issues.

31. There has to be a real willingness to work together and to recognise that some criminals use the border to facilitate crime to evade either jurisdiction. We are actively working to negate that as far as we can. We can do a lot. For example, the week before last, it was announced that, within the next eight weeks, the PSNI and An Garda Síochána would produce a strategic plan of the next steps that we think it would be appropriate to take. There might be some important legislative issues to consider, particularly in the exchange of evidence across the jurisdictions, so that the process could be speeded up.

32. Beyond those borders, the Serious and Organised Crime Agency, which is a UK-wide body that has a presence in Northern Ireland, is the agency that we use to go further afield into Europe and beyond. They have law enforcement officers in many other countries, embassies and police services. That is the primary route that we use to take inquiries beyond our jurisdiction. That also involves work with either Europol or Interpol. All those systems are tried and tested, and we have used them successfully, working in close collaboration with law enforcement agencies here, in North America and in the rest of Europe.

33. In particular, I highlight the point that the co-operation and sharing of information, resources and intelligence between the PSNI and An Garda Síochána has moved on to the next level. Our relationship would be almost closer than that of two shire forces in England. We closely co-operate and are constantly involved with each other.

34. To address the specialist nature of some of the crime in question, particularly forensic accounting, we can call on the assistance of accounting firms that are qualified to undertake forensic accounting and investigations and then act as our agents in providing and presenting evidence in court. That is a well-trodden path.

35. We also have our own internal financial investigators. We have invested heavily in that through the incentivisation fund, which is the money that comes back to the service having been seized and confiscated as criminal assets. We have primed the pump so that we can do more of that. We have many specialisms in-house, in the organised crime branch and in each of the districts. Each of our policing districts is able to mount local financial investigations. That is important to us. Although we talk a lot about commodities, the common commodity is cash. If you follow the money, it takes you to all sorts of places, revealing the full extent of the criminal conspiracy.

36. Mr McGlone: Are that level of co-operation and those resources shared throughout the island?

37. Mr Harris: An Garda Síochána is also equipped with the same resources, but if a cross-border investigation is involved, we pass across any evidence that we have obtained.

38. Mr McGlone: Let us move to another question. Table 1 on pages 4 and 5 of the memorandum shows the number of armed and cash-in-transit robberies, which appears to be pretty steady at the moment. What are the figures for the past three years for the theft of ATMs, which has increased markedly? To what extent are those thefts linked to organised criminal gangs? What advice has been given to the banking sector to minimise the risks of further thefts and losses?

39. Mr McComb: I will take those questions in reverse order. The level of co-operation with the industry is good. It was a little slower to start than we would have wished when we were dealing with the most recent thefts of ATMs. Banks are private bodies, and they must consider their own options. However, we engaged with them rapidly on this issue.

40. Touching wood, I would like to think that as a result of co-operation between law enforcement, the industry and community groups, we are beginning to turn a corner. Until the end of December 2009, there had been 24 thefts of ATMs across the Province. For the most part, they took place in areas that run parallel to the border and were mostly in Counties Fermanagh and Armagh. We had some in southern County Down and some in the middle of the Province. Since then, we have had only three, and by saying "only three", I do not mean that we are complacent. However, we have operational plans, and we work with the industry to identify the higher-risk ATMs. However, that is based on an assessment rather than on hard evidence. Where we have had clear intelligence about some of these gangs, we have conducted operational activity to try to prevent the robbery and also to catch the gangs.

41. Therefore, dealing with such thefts is a combination of trying to identify the higher risk ATMs and tackling the groups that are involved in that crime. A number of groups were involved in that type of crime, but they have moved on to other types of crime. I like to think that they have been put off for now, but we should not be complacent.

42. The banking industry recognises that it has a service to deliver. It does not serve us well if all ATMs are empty at night, because that affects members of the public. Therefore, the removal of ATMs has an impact on the community. However, the banks have worked alongside our crime prevention officers to identify those ATMs that are considered a higher risk, more vulnerable and at greater risk of being stolen. There has been some operational activity on that.

43. It is important to say that ATMs can be protected by physical means, and the banks have a responsibility for that. It is about target hardening, that is, making the premises on which the ATMs are located, the plinths and the various surrounding facilities much more difficult to access. That is the responsibility of the banks, and the banks understand that. However, that requires a significant financial investment, and it will take time to complete that process. However, we are working very closely with the banks in the interim period, and we have a dedicated structure in place to try to tackle those thefts.

44. Mr McGlone: What advice is the PSNI giving to the banking sector?

45. Mr McComb: We are giving advice about the management of the money in the ATMs. Some of the rural ATMs that were targeted appeared to have, from a policing perspective, an inordinate amount of money in them. However, the banking sector has to make that decision because, if an ATM is placed in the middle of a rural area that is quiet at night and where there is no immediate police presence, it is vulnerable. If that machine contains a huge amount of money, it becomes rich pickings for gangs that have the means and wherewithal to tackle it.

46. Through a process of identifying the higher risk ATMs, various communications have resulted and signs have been put on certain ATMs to say that they are emptied at night or that cash is not available between x and y dates. Therefore, piece by piece, we are trying to reduce the chance of those higher-risk ATMs being stolen. We can provide a policing presence as and when operational circumstances dictate, but that involves collaboration with the banking industry and communities, which can provide the on-the-ground information to prevent the thefts because, ultimately, the community is affected if the ATM is taken and people have no access to a machine for a period of time until it is replaced. The one point I would make is that organised crime is not victimless in any sense. Every piece of organised crime affects somebody in the community to a greater or lesser degree.

47. Mr McGlone: I have a question for Mr Harris. Table 1 of the memorandum mentions intellectual property crime and counterfeiting. Has any assessment been done on that, or is it even possible to make an assessment of the annual value of that type of crime? What is the PSNI doing to combat it?

48. Mr Harris: Intellectual property crime is, in effect, the copying of any saleable property to produce a counterfeit product. That includes CDs and DVDs, clothing and footwear, cigarettes and alcohol and other high-value items such as handbags, hair-styling irons, make-up, power tools, iPods, Wii systems, Sky remote controls and even toothbrush heads for electric toothbrushes. Any item that sells at a high value in shops can be copied. A huge amount of money can be made from that crime.

49. The Organised Crime Task Force has issued an overall response to the issue through the campaigns that it commences each Christmas to raise awareness of the problem of counterfeit goods. The packaging of those goods is always of the highest quality, but the product inside is the cheapest of cheap imitations. All the criminal's investment is in the outside packaging, which, when opened, contains a very poor imitation. Therefore, people are spending money and are paying £10 for a pair of shoes that will last only a few weeks and that are produced at little or no cost.There are a number of routes into countering this trade, the first of which is to investigate where the supply comes from. The products are made in other countries. The Far East often features, but goods also originate in Africa and South America. This business is organised. Suppliers are found, transit routes are opened up and a distribution network in Northern Ireland is established. We try to find the distribution networks. Often the best way to do so is to ask who has cash, what does the intelligence tell us, and where is the money flowing?

50. The products themselves are innocuous: their packaging looks good. We also try to examine the demand for them, through the advertising campaigns. The people who are being defrauded are mostly those on poor incomes. The price of a counterfeit DVD ranges from £3 to £8, but it costs pence to produce. That is a huge mark-up and profit on a very inferior product. The profit used to lie in the mass-movement of DVDs, but, more and more, production is a cottage industry in Northern Ireland and across the island of Ireland. That is where criminals focus their efforts, because the movement of other goods is more difficult.

51. We also find the involvement not just of locally based criminals but of international criminals in the counterfeiting of power tools. Even chainsaws have been brought into these islands by Italian mafia gangs. These gangs see an opportunity to move a product and make money. We depend on the public reporting, for example, chainsaws being purchased out of a car boot. People have to be alert to that sort of thing. It often happens.

52. Counterfeit cigarette smuggling is an all-Ireland operation. The criminal gangs will make every effort and use all possible means of entry — all the ports — to import large consignments of cigarettes. They are then brought to a distribution centre to be spread right across Ireland. Huge profits can be made on those. Therefore, there is a lot of cross-border co-operation among PSNI, HMRC and the Office of the Revenue Commissioners in Dublin.

53. It is impossible to put a figure on the value of the illicit trade. From what we retrieve, we can see the potential of the trade. We know what is needed to produce those counterfeit products. For example, intercepted packages from Hong Kong turned out to contain the pouches for pipe tobacco. We recovered 10,000 tobacco pouches, which were obviously to be filled with the counterfeit product and sold on. Similarly, many thousands of lids for spirit bottles have been recovered, and we have also recovered bottles. From those finds, we know that there is potential for the trade to be huge. However, in view of the scale and the distribution network, it is difficult to quantify. It is, without a doubt, a multi-million-pound operation.

54. Mr McComb: Let me add to what Mr Harris has said. It is just not possible to overestimate the dangers that people in the community face due to counterfeiting. Mr Harris mentioned the iPods, which can be bought at a very low price because they are dodgy. We have evidence that some of them have exploded. You can imagine that someone who, perhaps because of the economic downturn, buys a cheap iPod as a present for their child does not know that, when the counterfeit iPod gets to a certain temperature, it will explode.

55. There are washing powders that are not created by legitimate companies but by huckster markets in the Far East, and they contain all manner of chemicals, some of which are carcinogenic. The risk of washing children's clothes in a carcinogenic substance is obvious. Some razor blades that are assembled could cut the faces off people, never mind cut the hair off their faces. It is very important to recognise the dangers of counterfeiting.

56. Interestingly, I chair the subcommittee on intellectual property crime as part of the Organised Crime Task Force, and, before Christmas, we conducted an educational advertising campaign that was targeted at males between 18 and 25 in and outside pubs and clubs and in areas where we expected a rich flow of people. The outworkings of that campaign were very interesting, if not a bit disappointing. At the end of the campaign, we conducted a research programme to determine the campaign's impact. The first result was that almost everybody understood the link between buying a cheap product, such as a DVD, and organised crime. However, the second finding was that they would not change their behaviour and would still buy cheaper presents. Therefore, we need to break that connection and emphasise that it is not about making a bit of a saving but about stopping such activity and changing behaviours.

57. At the moment, it is not illegal for a person to buy counterfeit products. It is only illegal to be involved in their sale and distribution. We do not want to criminalise individuals who make honest mistakes. However, there is no doubt that some people make very unwise decisions. Someone who buys a gift for their child that explodes in their face two or three weeks later has no comeback. I cannot overemphasise the risks that are posed by counterfeit products across Northern Ireland.

58. Mr Harris mentioned chainsaws. There is something fundamentally wrong when somebody is selling chainsaws from door to door. However, nobody noticed that and wondered whether it was right. No one has ever come to my house to sell chainsaws; it is very much a rural crime. A person with an Italian accent, wearing a leather coat and selling chainsaws should alert somebody.

59. Mr McGlone: I will try to follow that. [Laughter.] I suppose it depends how close a person lives to a forest.

60. Table 2 on page 6 of the memorandum says that IT and human trafficking are potential areas of growth for crime. How prevalent is crime in those growth areas, and what are you doing to combat it?

61. Mr Harris: I will respond to the point about human trafficking. Roy has already touched on that issue. Three years ago, Northern Ireland took part in a UK-wide operation known as Operation Pentameter, and we were unable to detect any sign of human trafficking into Northern Ireland. There were instances in Great Britain but none here.

62. A year later, Operation Pentameter 2 commenced, and we saw our first problem. Indeed, that led to the mounting of Operation Haver, which was conducted between the Garda Síochána and the Police in Wales and which subsequently led to the conviction of a man called Carroll and two of his family members for controlling prostitution and money-laundering offences. We were bitterly disappointed that he was not convicted for human-trafficking offences, although he received very heavy sanctions. However, he was involved in human trafficking. Since then, we have recovered 20 individuals in Northern Ireland who we suspect have been trafficked for the purposes of prostitution, domestic servitude or to work in some form of business. You can see, therefore, that we have a problem.

63. That problem is replicated right across the island of Ireland, and prostitution, in particular, does not respect our border. It surges backwards and forwards, depending on the need and demand for the services of prostitutes. Moreover, there is the whole issue of advertising such services on the Internet. The issue will surface more and more throughout the coming decade because Northern Ireland and the island of Ireland are seen as prosperous places and are, therefore, targets for organised crime groups.

64. Northern Ireland is also seen as a good place to come for education and employment opportunities. Therefore, men, women and children are enticed to make the journey to Northern Ireland on the promise of employment, education and a better life than the one that they have in their own country. In particular, such people come from the Far East and sub-Saharan Africa. On arrival here, having been illegally trafficked onto the island, they find that they have to repay what is, in effect, a debt bond by being forced in to prostitution or some sort of servitude. Worryingly, we rescued a juvenile — a person in their early teens — who had been orphaned and was then trafficked to Northern Ireland. You can see how awful a crime that was. The person was orphaned approximately a year ago, only to find themselves in Northern Ireland, in the most dire and grim circumstances.

65. It is important to point out that that is happening almost under our noses. The brothels are not in places that one might expect them to be. They are in rural areas, among rural communities, and in city- and town-centre apartment blocks. Indeed, they are being set up in plain sight. After we carry out operations and raid places, neighbours say that they wondered why lots of men were coming and going to and from the premises at all times of the night and day. The answer is obvious: the premises were being run as a brothel. Not all brothels involve the heinous activity of human trafficking. Nevertheless, in almost all cases, there is some element of individual coercion. In such circumstances, the police and other agencies always attempt to intervene in order to support those individuals.

66. Last year in Northern Ireland, through the Organised Crime Task Force, we funded support for victims who have been retrieved. They are afforded a 40-day reflection period, in which they are given support from voluntary agencies that are paid to provide those services. That safe environment allows victims to gather their thoughts, assess their circumstances — including even finding out where they are — gain an understanding of the support that is open to them, and find out what will happen next in relation to their health, welfare and education. In addition, they become acquainted with the requirements of our policing response and the prosecution process.

67. The profit that can be made from one prostitute in a year runs to tens of thousands of pounds. Consequently, the flow of money from the prostitution industry is potentially huge, and it requires a money-laundering operation. Our investigations indicate that much of that money leaves our jurisdiction for other countries. Subsequently, through a series of manoeuvres, it is laundered and lost in the international banking system.

68. We face an insidious threat, but we do not face it on our own. In the first place, it is an all-Ireland issue, but we must also be conscious of the flow of people back and forth across the Irish Sea, so we must co-operate closely with our counterparts in the Serious Organised Crime Agency. Human trafficking is a growing problem, which has moved on significantly since the report was published. Per head of population, we retrieve and rescue victims at the same rate as forces in England and Wales, and our response is entirely in proportion and in step with what is being done in similar areas in England. We cannot say that we have any less of a problem here.

69. Mr McGlone: Thank you for that. You said that the wee orphan child who was trafficked into this country was kept in heinous circumstances. What will happen to that child if she was brought from Africa? Will she be deported, and does that mean removing the child from bad to worse? What happens in those circumstances?

70. Mr Harris: No. The United Kingdom has signed a convention to protect the victims of human trafficking. It sets out a series of requirements. The UK Government has exceeded those requirements, and we, in Northern Ireland, have processes in place to support such victims appropriately. A multi-agency approach is taken. That involves social services and other agencies that are properly equipped to look out for the welfare, care and, subsequently, the education of the individual. The question of deportation does not come into it because of the European convention issues.

71. Mr McComb: We cannot go into too much detail because the investigation is ongoing. The child became a ward of court, and the Police Service had to seek the permission of the court, through social services, to interview her. The child was orphaned in the middle of last year and was moved through four countries before she arrived in Northern Ireland. When we recovered her, she did not have a clue which country she was in or where she had been, except that she had been moved four times. I emphasise that this is happening under our noses, day by day by day. It is slavery: an obscene criminal activity that happens in a modern, western, democratised country.

72. Ms Purvis: I wish to clarify a point. The women and children who are trafficked are not involved in prostitution, because the term "prostitution" suggests a willing exchange of money for services. Those women and children are, rather, forced to commit acts against their will and are, therefore, sexually exploited. I do not like to use the term "prostitution" because it suggests a willing trade, and this is not a willing trade.

73. Can a punter be charged with an offence of rape if he uses the services of a woman who has been trafficked?

74. The Chairperson: Let us hear Roy's question too, please, and then the witness can answer both questions together.

75. Mr Beggs: I have been advised that, despite our own procedures at Aldergrove airport, organised criminals get around loopholes in the law. In particular, organised gangs know that if a person claims to be under 18, he or she is not detained as an asylum seeker, but goes to foster care or something appropriate to social services. Then, using a contact number provided beforehand, that person, who is over 18 but has been told to say that he or she is under 18, disappears.

76. Have you figures on the number of people who have used such loopholes in the law? I understand that the authorities in Dublin have wised up to that practice and have put in place procedures to stop it, and, as a result, the supply route now runs through Belfast.

77. Mr McComb: Let me address the latter question first. There is no doubt that organised crime always seeks the weak point of any system. The Police Service of Northern Ireland leads on human trafficking. If someone is identified at a port of entry to Northern Ireland, the United Kingdom Border Agency or UK Border Force leads on the identification of whether the person is a legal immigrant entering the country. Where it has information that the person has been trafficked, the Police Service will step in and take action regardless of age.

78. Mr Beggs: However, the person will not willingly say that he or she has been trafficked.

79. Mr McComb: That is where the professional judgement of people at the ports comes in. For the most part, people who have been trafficked arrive at ports without documentation. They arrive with a very vague story. Any one of us who comes through a port must answer questions on where we have been, where we travelled to and who we are meeting, etc. Therefore, the professionalism of UK Border Agency staff when they speak to and challenge people leads them to assess whether someone has been trafficked. I completely agree that the organised criminal gangs will always try to get around a system. I have no evidence that what you have described is a wide-scale practice, but I would not rule out the possibility of it happening. The police do not control the border around points of entry; that is for another agency, and it might be better placed to see human trafficking. However, when there is evidence of trafficking, the police will investigate.

80. In respect of Ms Purvis's point, I completely accept that, if someone has been trafficked, the issue of consent does not arise. It is statutory rape; there is no doubt about that. However, there is evidence that people engage in prostitution when there is no suggestion of human trafficking. It is a mixed economy. However, I completely support the view that the problem is one of sexual exploitation. It is a double exploitation of people's liberty, because they are taken from their homes and moved across countries, and consent does not come into it; it is purely rape.

81. Mr Harris: Prosecution for that crime may be difficult. There are proposals to create a new statute, which would make it an offence for someone to pay for sex with a person whom they believe to have been trafficked or to be under some form of duress. That is important, because we know that — for want of a better term — "punters" have paid for sex, have been introduced to the individual and then declined to have sex with them because they have been worried about the age or state of the individual. They could recognise straight away that the person was in distress. However, that is almost a one-off story. Other punters are ignoring those signs, and the criminal law will catch up with that quite soon.

82. It is important we do not have an environment here that allows loopholes to be opened up as regards that form of serious crime. Trafficking is, in effect, a form of slavery, and the police must have open to them every avenue to prosecute those who organise it and who benefit from the funds, as well as those who are wilfully blind to it. It is important to get the message out because it is almost certain that those crimes are currently happening somewhere in Northern Ireland and that people have suspicions that they are happening.

83. Mr Hilditch: I have a couple of questions for Ms Hamill. Paragraph 1.6.32, which is on page 16 of the detailed note, recommends that Northern Ireland Departments put in place arrangements to tap into strategic information that is held by bodies such as SOCA and the PSNI. Given DFP's role in relation to fraud and protecting the public purse, what steps has it taken to co-ordinate the implementation of those worthwhile recommendations?

84. Ms Hamill: Is that in relation to money laundering?

85. Mr Hilditch: Yes; it makes recommendations such as the introduction of officers to deal with money laundering and various things like that.

86. Ms Hamill: On the introduction of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and the Money Laundering Regulations 2007, DFP alerted accounting officers to their responsibilities when they are carrying out relevant business and if they think that they have a matter of potential concern. Moreover, the issue of money laundering is discussed at the fraud forum reasonably regularly. Most recently, in June 2009, the fraud forum received a presentation from the PSNI's economic crime bureau.

87. Most Departments handle minimal amounts of money. Those that do handle money have clear policies and clear guidance on how their staff should respond, for example, when people come to Translink with large amounts of cash to book coaches for societies, and Departments are clear about their requirements to report any receipt over £1,000. That guidance is currently in place.

88. Mr Hilditch: The same paragraph sets out the arrangements for reporting suspicions of money laundering. How well do those arrangements work in practice, and are you aware of how many public bodies have appointed money-laundering reporting officers?

89. Ms Hamill: I do not have those exact figures.

90. Mr Hilditch: Are they obtainable?

91. Ms Hamill: They are obtainable. Only three Departments indicated to me in advance of today's hearing that they receive large amounts of money reasonably frequently. They all understand their responsibility to report significant receipts. Furthermore, the Departments' external auditors have responsibilities under the legislation, and we have not been advised by them of any risks. However, I will get those figures for the Committee.

92. Mr Hilditch: I appreciate that.

93. The Chairperson: It would be useful to have that information.

94. Mr Shannon: Ladies and gentlemen, it is good to see you here. Today's subject matter is very sobering, and some of the issues that we have heard about so far are quite disturbing.

95. Assistant Chief Constable Harris, is it fair to say that all counterfeit goods originate in China? We have heard about modern technology and the fact that some computer firms have withdrawn services from China. We are aware that people can make counterfeits goods there and bring them here. Is anything being done at a higher level between the Governments? I know that it is not always easy to deal with China on many issues, but is it possible to increase co-ordination between the police forces on counterfeiting?

96. Mr Harris: It is not entirely fair to place all the blame on China. It is, undoubtedly, one country where counterfeit products are made, but the problem extends to Africa and South America. The criminal gangs operate a business and, therefore, always aim to find the cheapest place to make products at any given time.

97. Our experience of working with the authorities in China has been very good, and we have received every possible assistance and practical co-operation from them on any investigation. Because of its international element, that co-operation is conducted through the Serious Organised Crime Agency. I am not sure what happens between the Governments, but, on law enforcement, we receive assistance from the embassy in London and, subsequently, from the regions that we deal with in China. The Chinese authorities have always been very positive and forthcoming with all the practical assistance that one could reasonably expect.

98. Mr Shannon: I am encouraged to hear that good news. My questions are for Fiona, and they follow on from David Hilditch's questions.

99. I am concerned that the nature of modern technology means that scams can take place that can involve those who are looking for another way to con the public and make them pay for something inferior. Paragraph 1.17, which is on pages 21 and 22 of the detailed note from the Northern Ireland Audit Office, refers to new areas into which organised crime is moving and, in particular, the exploitation of information technology.

100. What steps has the Northern Ireland Civil Service taken to address that, or to ensure that its IT systems, those of the public bodies for which it is responsible and those of firms that provide services to the public sector, are protected against identity theft? From what I am told, that is clearly an important issue. What is the Department doing about that?

101. Ms Hamill: I can answer for the NICS, but I should say up front that I cannot speak about the IT policies applied by other public bodies. I hope that the IT policies of those bodies reflect the standards of the NICS, but I will have to come back to the Committee on that.

102. What we call the information assurance policy of the Northern Ireland Civil Service is in line with the national UK information assurance policy. UK Government policy on the security of data and information systems is set at a national level.

103. The definition of data assurance is that we have to be confident that the information systems will protect the information that they handle, functioning as they need to, when they need to and under the control of legitimate users. Below that a comprehensive set of rules and recommendations has been established on IT vetting, how IT systems must be built from a security point of view and how they must be accredited before they join networks. They must be accredited in Departments, before one system joins the main network and both networks join the NICS backbone and the public service network.

104. Very formal rules exist that ensure that breaches of classified data or electronic attack, such as hacking attempts and viruses, must be reported nationally, not just locally. Increasingly, cryptography is used, as are encrypted laptops and IronKey security. Across the NICS, the kind of actions that are being taken include the roll-out of encrypted laptops to staff and the use of encrypted media devices for the transfer of media so that any data transfer is done securely. At the same time, online data awareness among staff is promoted. Senior information-risk officers are appointed for any system that holds important data. There are board-level reporting mechanisms, and accounting officers are personally responsible and report on their arrangements in their statements of internal control.

105. Mr Shannon: My second question is about the one thing that you did not mention in your response, so it is probably a good time to discuss it now. How many laptops, notebooks or BlackBerrys have been lost or stolen from the Department over the past three years? In your response, you outlined what preventative measures are taken. However, if such machines are stolen, lost or inadvertently misplaced, or whatever way you want to describe it, access to them is available to criminals. How many of those lost contained data that are useful to organised criminals?

106. Ms Hamill: I apologise. I tried to get that information for this meeting; it was being gathered for me, but it was incomplete. I will provide it to the Committee. There have been a number of instances, some of them well publicised, where stolen laptops held personal data. I will gather that information and send it on to the Committee.

107. Mr Shannon: I will not labour the point, but I asked because we have heard about lots of incidents, mostly on the UK mainland, involving officials leaving laptops, BlackBerrys or notebooks on the train. Somebody then finds the device and the information that it contains. Do those who have responsibility for such equipment realise just how important it is? It is not something that one just walks away from and forgets about. Is that point underlined regularly?

108. Ms Hamill: The point is underlined and reinforced heavily. In fact, before I left the office today, an official DFP reminder was circulated stating that although 93% of DFP staff have completed the required information security training, a small subsection have yet to do it. Those people will be identified formally to their line managers to ensure that they complete that training by 30 April. Staff understand the security risk that is associated with assets such as laptops and BlackBerrys. Password protection is maintained at the highest level possible, particularly now that laptops come with IronKey encryption. One piece of equipment will not work in isolation from the other. If a laptop is lost without its encrypted IronKey, it will not work, and vice versa for information that is on a lost IronKey. Nonetheless, there are cases in which a laptop or BlackBerry has been lost with its IronKey. I will gather information about that for you.

109. Mr Shannon: Will you also indicate what disciplinary action, if any, has been taken against those who have lost, misplaced or inadvertently set aside a laptop, notebook or BlackBerry?

110. Ms Hamill: Yes.

111. Mr McLaughlin: My questions are for Mr O'Reilly. I had to give up my opportunity to question the PSNI, but you are very welcome. That is a first-time experience for me.

112. Mr O'Reilly, paragraphs 2.2.1 to 2.2.10 of the detailed note deal with the serious issue of illegal dumping. My first question has a number of parts and is quite detailed, so I suggest that you consider replying to the Committee in writing. We would like your latest assessment of the extent of the problem, setting out, for example, how many sites we are talking about, where they are located, what is the estimated tonnage of waste in them and where the waste originated. Although the report acknowledges that illegal dumping is an all-island problem, involving mainly cross-border domestic waste, is there any experience of waste being imported from outside the island of Ireland? Finally, how much tax revenue is being lost each year? If you have not managed to take a note of all that, to enable you to reply, we can write to you about it. We want your up-to-date assessment. Is that OK?

113. Mr O'Reilly: Yes. Do you want me to respond now?

114. Mr McLaughlin: You may want to say something now.

115. Mr O'Reilly: I shall give you a brief preliminary answer, but we will provide you with written information as requested. The report is relatively up to date about the extent of the problem, particularly where illegal waste imports are concerned. The situation in Northern Ireland was particularly bad a few years ago, resulting in the identification of 20 illegal waste sites, which we estimate hold between 250,000 to 300,000 tons of waste and possibly include some of the subsoil that has been affected. Those 20 sites are located throughout Northern Ireland. I shall get back to you with the estimated lost tax revenue. We have, however, identified the cost over the next five years of cleaning up just those 20 sites, and it is a significant figure.

116. Mr McLaughlin: I was going to discuss that.

117. Mr O'Reilly: It will run to some £85 million. That figure alone, covering a series of events that occurred over a couple of years, gives you an idea of the extent of the problem. As identified, it is an all-Ireland problem, and we can come back to discuss the reasons for that. However, the bags that contained waste that have been found here have been identified as coming from elsewhere on the island. Anne Blacker will elaborate on Ireland and Northern Ireland receiving waste from elsewhere.

118. Ms Anne Blacker (Northern Ireland Environment Agency): In the time that I have been involved in this matter, I am not aware that there has ever been a significant issue about waste being illegally imported into Northern Ireland to the extent that we have needed to take enforcement action. However, we will provide the Committee with some more detail on that issue.

119. Mr McLaughlin: The cost and tax differentials on the island provide the rationale for such activity. That is why we are at the receiving end.

120. Mr O'Reilly: It does to an extent. I would highlight a couple of important points. There was, and remains, a differential in the landfill levy — what we here call the landfill tax — of £18 a ton: it costs £30 in the South and £48 here. However, it is important to distinguish between that differential and those in, for example, diesel revenues, which, because of the differential between taxes that are charged on red or green diesel and white diesel, significantly drive fuel laundering.

121. Nevertheless, we do not think that the tax differential as such is a major driver, because the individuals who are involved will not pay tax, regardless of where they dump the stuff. The idea is to get rid of the waste without paying landfall tax or any of the other charges that are now associated with its legal disposal. The incentive is to dispose of the waste in an illegal site without having to pay any of the charges that would be applied by, for example, a council here in Northern Ireland if the waste were being disposed of legally.

122. I will ask Anne Blacker to supplement my second key point, which concerns the different arrangements North and South for the disposal of biodegradable municipal waste — in other words, our domestic waste. In Northern Ireland, waste is managed and disposed of through district councils; there is no private sector involvement in that process. There is no incentive for the driver of a bin lorry in Coleraine to take that waste to an illegal site, because doing so is of no benefit to him or her. In the South, however, one of the incentives is that private companies often manage the disposal of biodegradable municipal waste; therefore, there is a greater potential or incentive for that waste to find its way to places other than legal landfill sites.

123. Ms Blacker: The broad, historic situation is that there has been disposal of municipal waste, which is the type that we all put in our bins, from the Republic of Ireland in Northern Ireland. There has been and is significant illegal disposal and treatment of waste that is produced in Northern Ireland. As Mr O'Reilly said, because of the way that it is collected and controlled, that does not include our municipal waste.

124. Illegal practices feature heavily in construction, demolition and excavation waste. The environmental impact of both is serious, but that is probably best known as being the case for the municipal waste, which looks bad and has a bad odour. However, construction and demolition material, which includes wood, plastics, building chemicals and so on, also breaks down, releasing polluting liquids and gases.

125. There is also an economic impact, particularly on the legitimate Northern Ireland waste industry, which regularly complains to us about its being outcompeted by the undercutting activities of those in the illegal trade, who do not face the same costs.

126. The driver for that in both parts of the island appears to be that European legislation means that dealing with waste legally — by recycling or landfill — is becoming a very costly business that creates a driver for organised crime to find, as our PSNI colleagues said, a chance to make relatively easy money.

127. Mr McLaughlin: Thank you; that is very helpful.

128. I see from paragraph 2.26 of the detailed note that the Environment Agency has received almost 7,000 reports since December 2003 about suspicious activity and illegal sites. Apart from those, what other intelligence systems does the agency deploy to identify potential sites?

129. Ms Blacker: The agency gets information from a range of sources, including those from industry, PSNI colleagues and other law enforcement agencies. To manage all that, the agency has recently invested in an intelligence management system for the environmental crime unit. That system is the same that most police forces in the UK utilise. As you can imagine, with over 6,000 pieces of information, it is quite difficult to get a mental picture of what is a very complex illegal trade. The system will allow the unit not only to store the information but to analyse it and target its resources on the most serious offences, the repeat offenders and those who are involved in several different illegal operations. Returning to some of the earlier questions, that database is confidential, as the information on it is very sensitive. However, the agency is content that it is being adequately looked after in the Department.

130. Mr McLaughlin: Has the agency carried out a formal risk assessment about the type of sites that are most likely to be used for illegal dumping? Are routine checks carried out on, for example, old quarries to ascertain what type of dumping may have been carried out?

131. Ms Blacker: That has not been done in such a structured manner. The expertise that has been built up in the unit is sufficient to predict to an extent where likely risks exist.

132. As our PSNI colleagues explained, because the activity is covert, it is difficult to carry out a scientific analysis and predict where the dumping might be occurring. We have been involved in various projects to use satellite imagery to identify areas where illegal waste has been deposited, and we have had varying rates of success with that. We are collaborating with the European Space Agency on a project to use satellite imagery. We hope that that will help us to identify illegal sites that are still or have been operating and that we will then be able to take action.

133. Mr McLaughlin: That sounds quite significant and comprehensive. Of the illegal sites that have been discovered, is there any evidence that disused quarries have a particular attraction?

134. Ms Blacker: Disused quarries and agricultural land that is of poor value, such as wetlands and rough grazing areas, are commonly used sites. Abandoned and worked out quarries can also be included in that.

135. Mr McLaughlin: I suppose that there will always be resource issues, but are you content that you have sufficient resources?

136. Ms Blacker: The extent of the problem is such that I will probably never be content enough to say that I have sufficient resources. However, we are moving towards an intelligence-based approach to dealing with illegal dumping, and although activity to date has focused on the after-effects of the dumping, it is hoped that we will now be able to focus on those who are organising the activity. That means that our resources will be targeted more effectively.

137. Mr O'Reilly: The issue of resources obviously comes to me. There are different levels of resources, and human beings are important in the work. The unit currently consists of 24 investigative staff. The need for a further 14 members of staff was identified some time ago, and the Department is in the process of recruiting those staff members now.

138. The second level of resource is the skills that those people have, and, in the past, the unit has invested quite heavily in training those individuals. In fact, the Police Service provides that training. That recruitment and training are on the plus side, but on the minus side, it takes time to skill people up to do that work. Indeed, some people say that it can be up to five years before someone is fully skilled as an investigator.

139. The third level of resource, as Anne mentioned, is IT-type support and backup. Anne's assessment is fair, and she is right to say that she will never be satisfied and will always like more resources.

140. Mr McLaughlin: You mentioned quite a frightening figure for clear-up costs. Paragraph 2.2.7 of the detailed note tells us that, in some individual circumstances, it can cost tens of millions of pounds. Why is it so expensive, and has any waste been found to be toxic?

141. Ms Blacker: The word "toxic" is a very broad term, and we all probably automatically think of a bottle that illustrates a skull and crossbones to signify immediately that the product is poisonous. Waste that breaks down when it is placed in a landfill site produces polluting material that has the potential to cause environmental damage. Therefore, in the broadest possible terms, the result of waste being illegally infilled without the proper controls is toxic.

142. Mr McLaughlin: Could we have some detail on that for our report? It might be of assistance to people who read the report to enable them to recognise the difference between their understanding of the word "toxic" — something like the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles idea — and its true meaning. However, I am sure that people do not completely understand the insidious part that you described.

143. Ms Blacker: Part of the problem is that, unlike the situation with an ordinary, traditional pollution incident, waste continues to break down for decades. Therefore, the situation involves not merely one awful incident that is over and gone but rather an insidious release of materials. It costs so much to deal with that, because legal land filling, which comprises the main chunk of the cost, is very expensive. The government drive is to divert waste from landfill sites and to recycle and reuse it.

144. Unfortunately, the waste that we are talking about has reached the stage where nothing can be done with it, except to dispose of it in a landfill site. That costs money. Moreover, the material breaks down and releases pollutants, and the engineering of its physical removal costs money. We need to consider what vehicles can be used to transport the waste to ensure that we do not worsen the problem. That all adds to the cost. As far as we can establish, the average landfill cost in Northern Ireland for what is legally referred to as "non-hazardous waste", which is bin-type waste, is about £75 a ton. Therefore, it does not take a significant amount of waste to result in a significant cost. At some sites, there are 20,000 or 30,000 tons of waste, and that will have contaminated a volume of the land underneath and around it. Therefore, a bigger volume of material than the original waste must be treated as waste.

145. Mr McLaughlin: Will you come back to us with figures on how much you have spent to date on clear-up costs and how much you expect to spend to clear up the sites that you have identified? How many of those sites have clear-up bills that are over £1 million? That information is important to our report.

146. Mr Beggs: My questions are to Mr O'Reilly and follow on from the previous questions. Paragraph 2.2.7 of the detailed note shows that the Northern Ireland Environment Agency has had some success with prosecutions and has achieved some 60 convictions with fines that total £275,000. However, you gave us figures of 200,000 to 300,000 tons and said that the landfill tax down South can be €200 or €300 a ton. Have I picked that up wrong?

147. Ms Blacker: There might be a slight mistype in the report. The landfill levy in the Republic is, I think, now €30 a ton.

148. Mr Beggs: I was referring to the report.

149. Ms Blacker: In its heyday, and when that report was produced, the landfill cost in the Republic was €250 to €300 a ton.

150. Mr Beggs: Thank you for that correction. However, even at that figure, 200,000 tons at €20 a ton creates an immense profit compared with the size of the fines. What is the probability of organised criminals being caught and profiteering from waste? Are the fines sufficient to deter them? Do you have any sense of that situation at the moment?

151. Mr O'Reilly: If we translate fines into penalties for waste-related crimes, there are what we would understand to be conventional fines. In the six years from 2003 and 2009, the agency secured fines in excess of £1 million against offenders, and, in the past 12 months, it secured fines totalling £149,000.

152. However, I contrast that figure with the amount of money that the Environment Agency, with the support of the Serious Organised Crime Agency, has been able to secure in confiscation orders. That comes to almost £1·3 million over the past three years. That highlights that we can approach the matter conventionally through the courts and through fines. However, a method that is equally effective, if not more so, is the use of confiscation orders. Where a case has been taken successfully through the Crown Court, the agency can pursue a confiscation order. This is ultimately an economic crime, and there are assets to be gained.

153. Another form of penalty is the ability to stop and seize the vehicles that are suspected of carrying illegal waste. The agency has taken recent actions in that respect and has been successful in establishing its legal authority in the courts. Where it suspects that vehicles are being used for illegal purposes, it can impound the vehicles concerned, pending investigation. The Waste and Contaminated Land (Amendment) Bill, which is currently before the Assembly, further seeks to confirm the capacity of the agency to confiscate vehicles in such circumstances.

154. Mr Beggs: I am very conscious of the Waste and Contaminated Land (Amendment) Bill. However, as I understand it, an Order was passed three years ago that would have enabled you to bring forward such legislation. Why has it taken three years to introduce this legislation, which will ensure that you can take a more proactive approach to seizing vehicles?

155. Mr O'Reilly: A power was included in the 1997 Order —

156. Ms Blacker: The Waste (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Order 2007 gave us some power to deal with vehicles. We want the most effective outcome. The Department wants such activity to be deterred to such an extent that it stops, and, rather than examining and giving back a vehicle once it has been seized, the Department wants to retain that vehicle until there is an outcome from the courts. To ensure that the legislation adequately covered that situation, that element was included in the new amendment Order to make it a good and strong power.

157. Mr Beggs: Are you saying that the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997 was not sufficiently strong? Why did it take three years —

158. Ms Blacker: I am sorry; you may have misheard me. The amendment Order of 2007 introduced powers to deal with vehicles, and those powers are now to be amended.

159. Mr Beggs: I see.

160. Mr O'Reilly: Whenever the agency has used such powers, it has been subject to strong legal challenge from the individuals who are affected. Recently, the Court of Appeal made a judgement in the agency's favour. However, that came after a prolonged period of dispute and processing that appeal through the courts. A case had been taken against the agency in the first instance, and the agency was unsuccessful. However, we took it to the Court of Appeal, and we were more successful in establishing the agency's right to seize, retain and impound vehicles that are used for transportation of illegal waste.

161. Mr Beggs: Are you satisfied that you now have sufficient powers to deal with the matter? Have there been instances of re-offending? Do you think that the cumulative power of the law is now sufficient to deal with the problem, or are the profits still encouraging organised criminals to become repeat offenders?

162. Ms Blacker: Yes and no. The organised crime that is involved in illegal dumping is very dynamic, and as the agency gets better legislation and becomes more sophisticated, so too will organised crime, because there are profits to be had. The agency has worked very closely with its policy colleagues on both pieces of legislation to make them as strong as possible, but, apropos Mr O'Reilly's comments, the profits are so high in illegal dumping that those involved can afford the best legal representation and will challenge every action that the agency takes. However, the only way to test the legislation is through that process.

163. Mr Beggs: Assistant Chief Constable Harris, the cost of clearing illegal waste will fall, ultimately, to the ratepayers or will be paid for from Northern Ireland's block grant. Are you confident that there is sufficient public support in the reporting of the illegal movement of vehicles? I have done some calculations, and some 8,000 lorries are involved in dumping illegal waste, which would comprise a very large volume of heavy-goods vehicles on isolated rural roads. One would think that someone must see it.

164. Mr Harris: It probably is seen. However, because of the large amount of heavy-goods traffic around Northern Ireland, I am not sure that people draw the conclusion that those lorries are being used for illegal dumping. You could say the same thing about laundered fuel that is transported in curtain-sided lorries, yet we very rarely receive reports of suspicious movement.

165. Recently, and in response to the report, the PSNI has worked out a memorandum of understanding, which allows the police to share information on organised crime with Anne Blacker and her team. I hope that that arrangement is working well.

166. Part of the problem is that the criminals do not have job descriptions. The dumping of illegal waste is where the money is at the moment. However, at another time, it will be in something else, and those involved in it are also involved in the movement of high-value plant equipment or laundered fuel. Therefore, they are very much targets for the police, and we do anything that we can as regards collaborative enforcement action.

167. Mr Beggs: It is important that the public makes the connection between organised crime and illegal waste. The public must bear the cost, and it is in the public's interest to co-operate and report suspicious activities.

168. Mr O'Reilly, I also see from paragraph 2.2.7 of the detailed note that the Northern Ireland Environment Agency has financial investigators in addition to the organised crime branch in the police and SOCA. Why did you feel it necessary to appoint your own financial investigators? Have you assessed whether they are a worthwhile asset, or are you providing a duplication of services?

169. Mr O'Reilly: The Department is not providing a duplication of services. As I explained before, the financial investigation of the proceeds and assets that flow from criminal activity is the most effective way of deterring it in the future. Benefit can certainly be derived from that with regard to serious and organised crime, and that is the main reason why the Department has trained its support staff in that area.

170. In an ideal world, there would be adequate and sufficient resources everywhere to deal with all aspects of those problems. The Department felt that there was scope to use financial intelligence officers to investigate the benefits accrued from illegal waste, in addition to prosecuting people for waste crime per se, or for transport infringements for moving the waste around. We felt that we had to add a further strand to our activities.

171. Ms Blacker: The NIEA, under the Department of the Environment, is one of the organisations to which the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 gives the power to conduct financial investigations into money laundering and to confiscate assets. As we have said, the scale of the problem is such that nearly every piece of waste crime, whether or not it is regarded as organised crime, involves financial benefit. Our workload in that area is sufficient to merit its own staff. To date, our successes confirm that, as we had hoped, that is an effective tool for depriving criminals of any benefit and for deterring others.

172. We no longer find that landowners are willing to take loads of waste from the Republic of Ireland on to their sites. That is not to say that the criminals involved are not going somewhere else or doing something different, but I believe that our use of the powers granted under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 has helped to radically reduce people's willingness to become involved in that criminality.

173. Mr Beggs: Where do the proceeds from assets that are confiscated by your officers go? Do they go back to the Department for reinvestment or to the Treasury? What happens to them?

174. Ms Blacker: When there is a criminal conviction in the Crown Court for an offence for which the penalty can be acquisition, we can ask the court to allow us to carry out a financial investigation and, subsequently, to impose a confiscation order. Once that order is imposed, the convicted person has a time limit in which to pay. The person pays the Home Office, and 20% of the value of that order comes back to NIEA through the incentivisation scheme to which we have already referred. We can direct that money into the prevention and detection of crime.

175. Mr Beggs: I come back to the fact that the NIEA has its investigative officers and the police have theirs. Is that a sign that the agency attaches a higher priority for investment in that area than the police do and that the level of investigation that you wanted was not being provided? Why does NIEA not just leave investigations to the police?

176. Ms Blacker: The Department must acknowledge that the criminal activity is being carried out under a regulatory regime for which it is the enforcement authority. Therefore, we are obliged to deal with it as part of our regulatory and enforcement role. In fact, the PSNI is carrying out some confiscation investigations because we do not have enough staff to deal with the number of investigations that we would like. Our staff are shadowing the police investigations, and we are grateful for that assistance.

177. Mr Beggs: Finally, how soon do you think you will have additional powers to search and seize and impose clean-up costs?

178. Ms Blacker: Is that a reference to the new Order that we anticipate?

179. Mr Beggs: Yes.

180. Ms Blacker: To my knowledge, that should be in place early in 2011. The various powers will then come into play via commencement Orders.

181. Mr Beggs: Why does it take so long? Everything seems to take so, so long.

182. Ms Blacker: I am not an expert, but I think that the legislative process imposes requirements that cannot be pressed.

183. Ms Purvis: Assistant Chief Constable Harris, since the extortion helpline that was established in 2007, how many people have contacted it? As a result, how many people have been charged and, more importantly, prosecuted?

184. Mr Harris: I do not have exact figures for the use of the helpline. However, we sense that the targeting of the construction industry by those involved in the crime has diminished. We have a 100% conviction rate for the cases that we have taken on. We have been very successful. In the 2009-2010 financial year there were only 10 arrests compared with 18 in the previous year. That is not to say that the crime has gone away; it has changed shape as these things sometimes do. We now find that people who are involved in other illegal activity, such as drug dealing, find themselves subject to extortion or "tiger" kidnapping. That is sometimes known as "bad-on-bad" crime, and it can involve extreme violence, including murder. We are very concerned about that development. There has not been a homicide here, but a symptom of that sort of criminality is that it continues to ratchet up until extreme violence is meted out.

185. We are anxious about how to respond and target the gangs that are involved. They pretty much comprise the same individuals who engage in other violent crimes such as cash-in-transit robberies and "tiger" kidnap offences. The problem of extortion still exists but not so much against the traditional targets in the construction industry. The profits from that industry tend to be slow-burning. The gangs are far more interested in cash-in-transit robberies, "tiger" kidnaps and the "bad-on-bad" activity that generates an immediate windfall of tens of thousands of pounds. The crimes and the mindset have changed.

186. Ms Purvis: It is unlikely that the individuals who engage in the "bad-on-bad" activity that you referred to will even use the helpline.

187. Mr Harris: No. [Laughter.]

188. Mr McComb: They might ring to report that their drug money has been stolen.

189. Ms Purvis: They might squeal on themselves. Is there any evidence to suggest a growth in extortion among ethnic minority communities? If so, what can be done to encourage reporting of that?

190. Mr McComb: The short answer is yes. We have encountered extortion of members of the newer, non-indigenous communities, not necessarily because of their background but because many of them are involved in catering businesses and have been targeted because of that. However, there is also evidence that communities are attacking each other. They have brought an understanding and culture from other parts of Europe where that behaviour is much more common, and they are willing to tackle members of their own community and extort considerable sums of money from them.

191. We are considering the introduction of an outreach programme whereby we will translate appeals for information into different languages to show those communities that we take the issue seriously and that victims do not have to wait in silence. We have had some success recently and have had the full support of the people from newer communities who had been targeted. However, that success did not come through the extortion helpline. Despite our advertisement of that helpline time and time again, it has not reached the tipping point where there has been a groundswell of information. We still receive reports but not necessarily through the extortion helpline.

192. Ms Purvis: Given that you are looking at other methods, is the extortion helpline a bit redundant now?

193. Mr McComb: It may have served its purpose. However, I am always keen to find other ways to tap into hidden crime. Organised crime, by its nature, exists beneath the surface, and we need to work as hard as possible to tap into those deep wells of information. In response to the primary point about newer communities, we must ensure that people who arrive in Northern Ireland feel confident enough to phone the Police Service to report a crime and ask for help. That, perhaps, is not their experience in other countries.

194. Ms Purvis: I want to ask Fiona a follow-up question. Bearing in mind what Mr McComb and Mr Harris have said about the decline in extortion in the construction industry, I notice that paragraph 2.2.16 mentions the model that was adopted and the appointment of construction contract monitors for public contracts. What overall impact has that scheme had, and is there any evidence that the appointment of monitors has simply moved the problem to other contracts or areas?

195. Ms Hamill: I cannot advise the Committee about displacement. The construction contract monitoring scheme responds to intelligence from the PSNI about specific risks in a geographical area or to a particular contract. The scheme allows for the introduction of a construction contract monitor to watch the project and look for evidence of organised criminal activity and to report such activity, if identified, to the appropriate authority.

196. Ms Purvis: Has DFP measured the impact of the scheme?

197. Ms Hamill: The scheme is only a pilot. It is the second iteration in a pilot exercise. The scheme is running in only a small number of contracts. To date, we have found one instance of issues around waste disposal. We have not seen anything in the other contracts, probably because once the gangs involved in organised crime become aware that their operation is being monitored, they move away.

198. Ms Purvis: They become displaced.

199. Ms Hamill: Yes.

200. Ms Purvis: Paragraph 2.2.17 states that construction contract monitors can be expensive and that Departments may not use them because of that. Does DFP require that all business cases for capital projects consider the arguments for and against, and the costs of, appointing a monitor? Does DFP accept that those costs are legitimate, or does it consider the arguments on individual risk-assessment basis?

201. Ms Hamill: DFP requires that all construction contracts from August 2007 include enabling clauses for the appointment a construction contract monitor. That is a requirement, so the ability to appoint a monitor exists. As I said, the decision to appoint a monitor is based on intelligence that the construction contract monitoring steering group receives.

202. There are issues about the funding. It can cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to have a construction monitor in place for the duration of a contract, and the costs may not necessarily be proportionate to the size of the contract; it is to do with the identified risk. The construction contract monitoring process is in its pilot stage and is under review. The steering group wishes to raise with the procurement board the issue of costs and how those are funded.

203. Ms Purvis: When the pilot is complete, may the Committee see an assessment of it?

204. Ms Hamill: Certainly.

205. Ms Purvis: Paragraph 20 of the memorandum deals with briefing and co-ordination. How is DFP briefed on the work of the Organised Crime Task Force and the interdepartmental working group?

206. Ms Hamill: DFP's role in tackling organised crime is to set the ground rules for the administration of public money and to provide advice and guidance to Departments about that. We have taken a clear lead on some matters relating to organised crime, such as fraud, which we talked about today, whistle-blowing policies in public bodies, and IT security, which we also talked about. We have also taken the lead where there was an appropriate requirement for legislation. DFP also holds fraud events. DFP's basic work on fraud and IT security puts in place strong controls and barriers that are the first line of defence against organised crime. We believe that that goes a significant way to protecting the public service.

207. The PSNI is part of the fraud forum. However, the fraud forum and DFP do not officially consider organised crime to be their responsibility. Organised crime has been a matter for the Organised Crime Task Force within the Northern Ireland Office, and it will now be the responsibility of the new Department of Justice

208. Ms Purvis: The memorandum talks about a recommendation for central co-ordination and briefing arrangements within Departments, agencies and public bodies. Are you saying that DFP is not briefed on the work of the Organised Crime Task Force and the interdepartmental working group?

209. Ms Hamill: There have been no meetings of the interdepartmental working group for several years.

210. Ms Purvis: Are there plans for it to meet?

211. Ms Hamill: The interdepartmental group on organised crime was established by the Secretary of State during a period of suspension of the Assembly. The roles and responsibilities were not allocated to any Department on restoration of the Assembly.

212. Ms Purvis: Does DFP not think that there is a role for co-ordination?

213. Ms Hamill: The Organised Crime Task Force has the lead on organised crime. It was part of the Northern Ireland Office and is now part of the new Department of Justice. Our colleagues in the new Department of Justice may want to consider that matter going forward.

214. Ms Purvis: Will you suggest that to the Department of Justice?

215. Ms Hamill: Do you want DFP to make that suggestion?

216. Ms Purvis: It is one of the recommendations.

217. Ms Hamill: It is one of the Audit Office's recommendations, but I see it as a recommendation to the Executive.

218. Ms Purvis: OK; we will follow up on that.

219. Paragraph 3.20 of the detailed note identifies a number of areas for further action, particularly in relation to the fraud forum. Does DFP have any plans to widen the scope of the fraud forum? How do you see that developing in relation to organised crime?

220. Ms Hamill: To be honest, we do not have any plans to widen the scope of the fraud forum. The fraud forum is there for the fraud investigation officers in the Department. It is there to co-ordinate the work of practitioners and to give them an opportunity to seek advice and share advice with one another. The fraud forum looks after the memorandum of understanding on fraud matters between Departments and the PSNI as regards how far we take fraud investigations before we hand them over to our colleagues in the PSNI.

221. The fraud forum is a practitioner-focused forum. If we were to widen its strategic scope, there would have to be a change of those who attend. I would be concerned that that would fundamentally weaken our controls in relation to fraud. There is no intention to widen the scope of the fraud forum. I acknowledge that the Audit Office has expressed views that there needs to be more co-ordination and briefing in that area, but I do not think that the fraud forum is the appropriate format for that.

222. Ms Purvis: That gives me the sense that the fraud forum is more concerned with internal processes and mechanisms. It suggests that Departments feel that they are impervious to organised crime from outside. I do not understand why you do not feel that it is necessary to broaden the fraud forum.

223. Ms Hamill: Strong anti-fraud measures across all Departments and all business activities go a long way to protecting against any crime, including organised crime. The fraud forum was established specifically for the practitioners who look after that work. That is those practitioners' skill area, and that is where they have responsibilities.

224. The Organised Crime Task Force provides the strategic focus for organised crime. My colleagues from the PSNI have referred to the special work streams that sit below the Organised Crime Task Force and in which they engage with the appropriate colleagues to deal with specific threats. That is the right framework going forward. Departments that face specific risks engage directly with the necessary bodies on a bilateral basis. Examples of that include the Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) on waste, the Central Procurement Directorate on construction contracts and the Social Security Agency.

225. Ms Purvis: I have a difficulty with that because you already said that your Department does not receive briefings on the work of the Organised Crime Task Force. It seems to me that this is not co-ordinated or joined up properly. There seems to be a disconnect.

226. Ms Hamill: I accept that criticism. I suggest that the Department to lead policy should be the new Department of Justice.

227. Ms Purvis: In paragraph 3.7 of the detailed note the principles that would contribute to the fight against organized crime are discussed, for example, vigilance and awareness. Can I ask you and Mr O'Reilly what steps you have taken within your respective Departments to promote and implement them? You refer to some specific measures and techniques: database interrogation, data sharing and matching and data mining.

228. Ms Hamill: In databases and database sharing, DFP took a lead role with their colleagues in the Northern Ireland Audit Office in ensuring that we got the appropriate legislative cover in the Serious Crime Act 2007 to allow participation in the national fraud initiative, which allows the Comptroller and Auditor General to exercise his role to extract data from Departments and to look for data-matching issues that may cause concern. That information is then passed back, and Departments then investigate those duplications to look, for example, for frauds and errors. DFP is responsible for a significant volume of data. The latest information that I have from my Department on that exercise is that 91,000 matches have been identified. Of those processed to date, some 750 frauds have been identified as a result.

229. Mr O'Reilly: In respect of my Department and the way that it links into others, the rising profile of waste crime has created across the Department a greater awareness of such crime and of the interactions and interrelationships between the different types of crime.

230. In a sense, we had the benefit of a review that was carried out by the Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland in 2007. That review focused specifically on my Department because of its interaction with several areas of law enforcement. It looked carefully at the way in which the Department delivered in those, and one of its recommendations was the creation of the environmental crime unit, which was set up in December 2008. It also highlighted the need for a greater awareness in the Department of the interaction among its Environment Agency's work on environmental-related crime, transport-related crime, which is looked after by the Driver and Vehicle Agency, and planning enforcement activity, which can sometimes link in to raising awareness of other types of criminality.

231. Anne has highlighted the investment that we have made in a new intelligence database in the NIEA. We have the benefit of the Criminal Justice Inspection report, and we are keeping a close watch on how we create interaction within the Department across the areas that I have mentioned.

232. As the report highlights, responsibility for this cuts across all Departments. A notable example is the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, which has responsibility for fuel oils and the registration of fuel-oil retailers, etc. That, in turn, provides a significant source of data as to which outlets are selling fuel oils, what volumes they are selling and, by definition, how that relates to their legal supply of fuel oils. Another is example is the Department of Social Development, which has responsibilities, along with local government, for the licensing of premises to sell alcohol. That can also lead to interrelationships with crime and, sometimes, organised crime.

233. My Department has responsibility for taxi licensing, which can sometimes provide, if not a major source of organised crime, a potential means of money laundering in the sector. I give those examples to show the enormous scope that exists for co-ordination and co-operation. In my Department, there is a greater awareness of it, but I cannot claim that we are achieving the highest possible levels of co-ordination. Through the NIEA, we participate in some of the co-ordinated work streams of the Organised Crime Task Force, particularly on criminal financing. The report rightly highlights the potential for greater co-ordination in all those areas.

234. Ms Purvis: Assistant Chief Constable Harris, bearing in mind what Fiona Hamill said about developing and emerging threats, what steps has the PSNI taken to ensure that public sector bodies and Departments are given timely briefings on such threats?

235. Mr Harris: We work mainly in partnership with the Organised Crime Task Force, with the majority of briefings taking place at stakeholder group level. We meet with representatives of the business community in forum to update them on crime patterns and threats from criminality. We then deal in a bespoke manner with specific industries, including the banking and the cash-in-transit industries. Our relationship with other elements of the public sector is intelligence driven.

236. Many organised crime gangs focus on habitual activities, such as fuel laundering, dealing in counterfeit products, including counterfeit cigarettes, as well as cigarette smuggling, because they can make a lot of cash. The OCTF oils expert group works across the public sector on fuel industry regulation, the movement of fuels and so forth. Its work involves co-ordinating cross-border work with the authorities in Dublin to maximise control of the whole industry, thus reducing opportunities to commit fraud through fuel laundering.

237. Similarly, we have a legislative forum to try to address cross-border disparities between law-enforcement powers and sanctions. Therefore, at various levels, we are harmonising systems and attempting to close loopholes. All that involves ongoing work across the public sector, including our work with the Public Prosecution Service and, in turn, the Irish Director of Public Prosecutions on prosecutions and, if necessary, law reform.

238. I think that we have a very good system of dealing with the organised crime threat that we face. Intelligence comes into the system from various sources, not just the police but HMRC, SOCA and the business, construction and banking industries. That allows us to assess the threat from organised crime in Northern Ireland. From that, we determine where we feel that threat will go. Human trafficking is an example. Two and a half or three years ago, it was unheard of and we were not alive to it as a threat. Now, the situation is entirely different. Support mechanisms are in place, enforcement mechanisms are geared up and we have looked at best practice across the world in dealing with the matter. We have also carried out multi-agency work to support victims.

239. That illustrates how we can react, and, in some ways, we have seen similar changes in extortion. As paramilitary groupings have closed or wound down their operations, the nature of extortion in Northern Ireland has changed in the way that I described earlier. We held a series of awareness events with professional bodies, including those that are involved with financial institutions and money service bureaux. Unfortunately, a guy whom we subsequently arrested for dishonesty offences was sitting with one of our information packs, but there you go.

240. Ms Purvis: Does the present system produce the best co-operation and co-ordination? For example, the police work with the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to provide services for women who have been trafficked, and they also work with the Department of the Environment and other Departments. Do you think that the system would benefit from an interdepartmental working group through which information and briefings could be shared easily, or are you content with what is presently in place?

241. Mr Harris: Perhaps something could be done on how organised crime creates public harm in the widest sense. Drugs create harm to health, and the millions of counterfeit cigarettes that are imported into Northern Ireland each year, which are sold at an almost full mark up, close down opportunities through the loss of revenue and jobs. That revenue becomes criminal funds when it could be put into public services. However, the real threat from organised crime is when the amount of money sloshing around in criminal finance is such that it begins to corrupt professional groups and public officials. There are plenty examples of that from across the world.

242. There is an awareness beyond what the police are doing to combat organised crime on the wider implications of that crime are for society. For example, drug misuse is an enforcement issue for the police, while for others it is a health and an education issue. Much of the crime that we see, particularly the violent crime, is as much a health as a crime issue for the police.

243. Northern Ireland now has its own Minister of Justice in a devolved Executive, and the police are looking forward to developing partnerships with other elements of the public sector. The work of the Organised Crime Task Force has shown the advantage that Northern Ireland has over other jurisdictions. It is of such a size that you can get to know all the key players and start to develop the necessary trust. The memorandums of understanding on the sharing of information are easy enough to draw up, and, after that has been done, we can start to make a real impact. For other jurisdictions, the scale is too large. For example, in England and Wales there is no equivalent of the Organised Crime Task Force, and my counterparts there do not have access to HMRC, SOCA or other agencies in the same way that I do. We must take advantage of the size and scale of the Administration in Northern Ireland in our attempts to combat organised crime. Organised crime is a big problem, but it is a finite problem, and there are plenty of ways to deal with it that we have not yet explored.

244. Lord Browne: Mr O'Reilly, paragraph 4.6 on page 49 of the detailed note concerns the current underreporting of organised crime activity, particularly extortion. It suggests that the approach of the NIEA to tackling organised crime may provide a useful model for other agencies. I assume that that initiative to relates to the illegal dumping of waste. If that is the case, will you outline the key elements of the initiative, particularly in the relationship between NIEA and SOCA? Furthermore, do you consider the initiative to have been successful?

245. Mr O'Reilly: The origins of that initiative were twofold. The first was circumstantial and came from the awareness a few years ago of the scale of illegal dumping and the massive implications that it has not only for our environment but for our direct public expenditure position. The second factor was that there was a healthy awareness of waste crime across the community in Northern Ireland. People are very aware of it, will report it and will raise concerns about it with their elected representatives. In a sense, those two issues were highlighted to the Department. Therefore, we introduced a crime e-mail address and phone number to provide opportunities for members of the public, elected representatives and others to report incidents of environmental crime at all levels, not only serious organised crime but instances of one-off fly-tipping and so on. If such crimes are not reported quickly, they can, by their nature, sometimes be difficult to follow up.

246. As I said, the other incentive was to avoid the scale of the cost implications for the Department and others. That is usually portrayed as loss of revenue to the Exchequer, but, in this case, the cost is to departmental expenditure limit (DEL) and the Northern Ireland block. Although the Government in Dublin will carry a substantial part of the £85 million that I mentioned, the cost to us will, nevertheless, be in excess of £10 million. That £10 million will not be available for other services.

247. We are pleased with the progress that has been made so far on the methods of reporting. However, we hope that the increased powers that we will receive will enable us to enhance the use of that intelligence and to, for example, feed the intelligence that we receive from individual reports into the new IT system that Anne mentioned. Do you want to add anything, Anne?

248. Ms Blacker: Lord Browne asked how the relationship with the Serious Organised Crime Agency arose. Initially, we uncovered that situation, and I have to say that must do is a great master. It became clear that normal environmental enforcement throughout the UK is done to achieve compliance and not to deal with organised crime. It was clear that normal approaches would not work. We made contact with the Assets Recovery Agency, as it was known then, via the Organised Crime Task Force, which we have, historically, had good communication with.

249. Lord Browne: Did you carry out an advertising campaign to make people aware of the confidential telephone line?

250. Ms Blacker: The advertising has been limited. When the Department first took on regulatory responsibility, there was a great deal of television advertising, such as the Wake up to Waste campaign, and duty of care legislation was introduced. Although that did not directly relate to illegal dumping and organised crime, it seemed to trigger recognition in the public mind, and we received a lot of reports. We still receive reports from individuals who are worried about the implications of reporting and whether we will publicise their details. Over a period of years, we have built up confidence to assure people that, if they are good enough to lift the phone and speak to us, we will not divulge their details. We continue to work on that, and we are keen to explore, as resources permit, other means to increase public support and reporting.

251. Lord Browne: Have you shared your experience with other agencies and worked together to try to improve the situation?

252. Ms Blacker: We work with the Environment Agency of England and Wales, the Scottish Environment Protection Agency (SEPA) and the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the Republic of Ireland, all of which have similar environmental crime units. The proceeds of crime legislation is more advanced here, but those other areas are introducing similar pieces. All the jurisdictions have regular meetings to exchange intelligence, best practice and experience.

253. Lord Browne: In response to an earlier question, you mentioned the seizure of vehicles. Until now, you have operated under somewhat outdated EU regulations, and there was an anomaly whereby the vehicles of hauliers who delivered their own goods could be stopped but not be seized. The rest of the United Kingdom addressed that matter some 10 years ago in 2000, but we have been rather slow to do that here. I know that we have recently introduced the Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act (Northern Ireland) 2010, but there was a 10-year delay in doing so. Can you assure me that the 2010 Act will be implemented? Given that it has received Royal Assent, how long will it take to be activated?

254. Mr O'Reilly: The Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Bill received Royal Assent 22 January 2010 and has come into operation. As for the reasons for the disparity in approach in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK to the licensing of haulage vehicles and the differential between owner users and those who have vehicles for commercial gain, the background note told me that that differential started in 1965. Therefore, that situation goes back quite a while. However, as the Committee knows, we have brought the basic statutory framework into line with the position elsewhere in GB, and that also brings us into line with better practice in Europe.

255. It will take time to take the actions that are required to move from the present arrangements in which about 20% of hauliers are licensed to the position of having 100% of hauliers licensed. The first key step is to set up a transport regulator's office in the Department. The initial team for that has been in place since 1 April 2010. It will take time to put in the IT systems that will enable us to maintain a database of licensed operators, but we intend to have the full arrangements in place by 2012, and we want the office to be more fully staffed by 1 April 2011.

256. Mr Dallat: It seems that I am the sweeper up, if you pardon the pun. We heard about the high level of co-operation between An Garda Síochána and the PSNI, but surely the policies are not crime proof to begin with — a coach and horses can be driven through most of what we are discussing. There are differentials in the cost of waste disposal, differing rates of VAT North and South, and we have just heard that the legislation is different in different parts of Britain. What action is being taken to ensure that the Government and their agencies do not actually create the opportunities for crime and then set up awfully sophisticated bureaucracies to catch the criminals?

257. Mr O'Reilly: An obvious way in which the Government can create opportunities to allow crime to occur is to have measures such as differential tax rates and varying charges on diesel. That begs the question of whether would there be a better way of facilitating people in the agriculture and other industries to avail themselves of lower levels of tax on diesel than having red, green and white diesel. That could remove an opportunity for crime.

258. To an extent, particularly on this island, differential tax regimes can attract organised crime and benefit trade in the North and South. However, on the wider question, that is something about which Departments, including OFMDFM, are aware. We have put in place guidelines for Departments to use when they are developing policies. In fact, one of the strands includes a crime-impact assessment.

259. The Waste and Contaminated Land (Amendment) Bill was the subject of a crime-impact assessment to ensure that, at a simple level, the provisions for penalties were correct and, at another level, to ensure that we did not inadvertently facilitate or promote new opportunities for crime by introducing some new tax, charge or administrative arrangement. That can sometimes, but not always, be anticipated, because people have a fair level of ingenuity in those areas.

260. That immediately comes to mind as an area for which we were making policy, laws, regulations and introducing charges at the same time as recognising the need to raise awareness of the potential of those well-meaning regulations to create opportunities for ordinary and organised crime.

261. Mr Dallat: Of course, those who are involved in crime will always size up the level of resistance. I will not get too specific, but Anne Blacker will know what I am talking about when I say that an illegal site can be given permits and made legal. The complaints then start flowing in, but we know that the resources are not there to send down people from Belfast every weekend to deal with a pong. Similar to those who are involved in similar planning issues, the people concerned have sized up everybody. They know the measure of the agency's clout, and it is not there.

262. Ms Blacker: I know the site to which you refer, but I am not sure whether it is appropriate for me to name it in front of the Committee, so —

263. Mr Dallat: No; such sites are protected all the time. They cannot be named, there is a hush about them and not a word is said.

264. The Chairperson: We are dealing with a specific issue, so I would rather that you did not mention the site.

265. Ms Blacker: Any business that has an opportunity to make money by not complying with legislation has a choice. Some businesses and individuals will choose to comply. In the same way, I choose to pay the tax on my car, but someone else might not. Some businesses will make the other choice and will not comply. As I explained, the people who are involved in illegal waste activity will challenge our actions and legislation. We are bound by the legislation, and we have to work on the basis of evidence. Where we can find the evidence, we will proceed. Unfortunately, where we cannot find the evidence, we cannot proceed. However, we will try to find evidence if it exists.

266. Mr Dallat: That answer was absolutely honest. All action has to be matched to resources, but public confidence is fundamental to all that. That is why we have an Environment Agency and a Public Accounts Committee. Clearly, if public confidence does not exist, the resources that are needed have to be found in some way. That is why I often wondered why the Environment Agency did not scream from the rooftops that it was under-resourced. Are you constrained by the fact that you are just an agency of the Department of the Environment?

267. Ms Blacker: All I can say is that, in heading up the crime unit, I have never felt constrained by being part of a Department in the actions that I have been able to take.

268. Mr Dallat: That is fair enough. That answer suits me fine, because it means that you take total responsibility for everything that is not right.

269. I cannot really blame you for this, and I do not want to blame the PSNI either, but there are occasions where heavy fines — thousands of pounds — were imposed on polluters of rivers, for example. The money was never collected, because the PSNI could not find the people who owed it. Is there sufficient co-ordination among the different agencies to ensure that the criminal hands over the money or does the time?

270. Mr Harris: There is an ongoing review of the system of fines and their retrieval right across Northern Ireland. We are different from Great Britain and other jurisdictions in that we have a pretty antiquated system. It probably has not moved on much in the past 100 years, although I hesitate to say that. The idea of there being a constable with warrants of default is a very antiquated way to look at retrieving money in days when we have bank transfers, credit cards, bank cards and bank accounts, which are readily accessible by electronic means. All that is being reviewed. We have a very labour-intensive system that is almost based on somebody counting out cash and being given a receipt. That is not very fit for purpose, but a lot of work is being done to try and bring that process up to speed.

271. It is important to highlight that, as well as there being fines, financial investigations are undertaken that draw down on profits. That is a very important element of our work. It is essential to get behind the fines and into the profits. At the end of the day, the people concerned operate a business, and we want to make it unprofitable for them.

272. Mr Dallat: That is fine. Paragraphs 4.9 to 4.16 of the detailed notes refer to data exploitation and suggest that the spend-to-save principle could apply in that area. In other words, if money is invested in the technology that we talked about earlier, it is likely that there will be a return. Do you have an assurance from DFP that the money that is required to invest in data collection to catch the people who are involved in organised crime will be forthcoming?

273. Mr O'Reilly: Obviously, DFP has a finite amount of money to spend. However, the types of technology that you identified, such as data-collection systems, require relatively small amounts of money. Certainly, as I highlighted earlier, those costs are relatively small when compared with the cost of environmental crime. DFP has a role to play in allocating resources to Departments. However, other Departments have a role to play in effectively using those resources and trying to prioritise initiatives. It is relatively easy to say that DFP should give us more money; Departments might want to say that anyway. However, I recognise that it is our responsibility to target our resources as best we can to achieve more widespread savings for public funds.

274. Mr Dallat: Are you telling the Committee that there is a focus on achieving that and a determination to do so?

275. Mr O'Reilly: DOE has a major focus on that activity and area of work, not least because it sees the direct cost on the public purse of not getting it right and of failing to enforce those issues effectively.

276. Mr Dallat: Therefore, the message coming from today's hearing is that organised crime does not pay, that the various agencies are geared up to ensure that information is shared and that the resources are available to stamp it out.

277. Mr O'Reilly: Organised crime certainly costs. Inevitably, it has paid, and probably will continue to pay, in the short term, at least for individuals who are able to exploit the various loopholes that exist in elements of society and in legal frameworks. However, in the area that we are responsible for, the aim is to curtail the benefit as far as possible. We have some evidence that we have been having an impact over the past few years on the specific measure areas that the Environment Agency has been dealing with.

278. Mr Dallat: Is there no level of tolerance?

279. Mr O'Reilly: There is no level of tolerance. However, I suspect that organised crime will always be an issue and that there will be a need for continuing high-level vigilance.

280. The Chairperson: Mr Beggs has a supplementary question, so I ask the witnesses to keep their responses as brief as possible. We want to get this session wrapped up shortly.

281. Mr Beggs: Table 1 in the memorandum indicates that the estimated cost/loss of the supply of illegal drugs is £25 million. Gangs that are involved in organised crime have been supplying illegal drugs. However, I fear that they have also been involved in the supply of legal highs. Mephedrone was added to the list of illegal drugs recently. I know from listening to my constituents over recent weeks that that drug has wrecked lives. Young people have dropped out of college, lost their jobs and used what limited assets they have to feed their addiction to that drug. The problem is also costing the Health Service money through the provision of mental-health services. I take it that that figure does not include all those other costs and that those are just the profiteering costs? After reading about the drug and getting more information about it from local people, I am concerned that international criminal gangs appear to be supplying what is a designer drug. Is that the case?

282. Mr McComb: Mr Dallat made the point about how crime proofing something can inadvertently create another drug. A chemist, in his wisdom, simply changed the chemical structure of an illegal substance by adding a C, a H or an O — I am no chemist — to make it a legal substance. It takes a number of weeks to identify that that has happened, and then the chemist will change the structure again. One is always trying to get one step ahead of the curve.

283. Mr Beggs: Is there a need for the legislators to get wise to that problem? Instead of just banning a family of drugs, perhaps there should be a move towards creating a spot-listing system, as has happened in the US and New Zealand. Everyone knows that 1g packs of bath salts will not be going into a bath. A spot-listing system could stop what you described at a very early stage. If a substance has been legal for several months, the addiction has been fed and spread. Young people may think that a substance is OK because it is legal, and they may get a taste for it or even get hooked on it. Should we have some system of spot listing the abuses of international labs that are waiting to distribute the next designer drug that can get around current law?

284. Mr McComb: Interestingly, mephedrone was banned last Friday, and, no later than the weekend, there were reports of a new drug called sparkle, which is just another derivative of ecstasy. There is an argument for taking a much more holistic approach and saying that an illegal substance should be identified and action taken more instantly. I am aware that a national review of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 is ongoing to try to resolve some of the issues that you raised. The appendix to the current list of controlled drugs grows day by day because of the growth of the industry. People with a good education in chemistry can create a new designer drug, but the legislation takes that bit longer.

285. The frustration for law enforcement is that we see people in possession of something called plant food, for example. You and I know that it is mephedrone and not plant food. It is sold in head shops that, although legal, are on the very thin crust of legality. However, until the law permits law enforcement to take action, we will always be hampered. We are able to look at the situation, but we are not able to do much about it.

286. Mr Beggs: I feel strongly that that should be one of our recommendations. We need to get wise on this issue and be ahead of the game in what the criminals are doing.

287. The Chairperson: We will discuss that and the other recommendations.

288. You will be glad to hear that there are no more questions, as it was a long session. There is a great deal of public interest in organised crime and the public sector, so dealing with those two areas needs to be married up. Some good work has been done, and there is some still to be done. We will receive more information from all of you, and we may request further information in writing. For now, I thank Roy, Drew, Leo, Anne and Fiona for their patience. Thank you very much for what was a very informative session. I also thank Hansard.

Appendix 3

Correspondence

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010 to
Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris

Room 371
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Tel: (028) 9052 1208
Fax: (028) 9052 0366
E: pac.committee@niassembly.gov.uk
aoibhinn.treanor@niassembly.gov.uk

23 April 2010

Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris
Chief Constable's Office
PSNI Headquarters
Knock Road
Belfast
BT5 6LE

Dear Drew,

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Thank you for your participation in the Committee's evidence session yesterday.

I would be grateful if you could provide the following information to the Committee relating to the confidential extortion helpline:

1. The number of people who have contacted the extortion helpline since 2007-08 and as a result how many people have been charged with extortion and the number of successful prosecutions of those charged.

I should appreciate your response by 07 May 2010.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Maskey sig
Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010
to Ms Fiona Hamill

Room 371
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Tel: (028) 9052 1208
Fax: (028) 9052 0366
E: pac.committee@niassembly.gov.uk
aoibhinn.treanor@niassembly.gov.uk

23 April 2010

Ms Fiona Hamill
Treasury Officer of Accounts
Department of Finance and Personnel
Room P4, 3rd Floor
New Building, Rathgael House
Balloo Road
Bangor
BT19 7NA

Dear Fiona,

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Thank you for your participation in the Committee's evidence session yesterday.

As agreed at that session, the Committee would like to request some further information from you, as listed below.

How many public bodies have appointed Money Laundering Reporting Officers;
Confirmation from the Department that the IT systems in operation within all public bodies for which it has responsibility are consistent with the Information Assurance Policy that is in effect within the NICS;
How many laptops/notebooks and blackberries were lost or stolen from departments in the last three years; how many of these contained data that would be useful to organised criminals; and an overview of the disciplinary action, if any, taken against staff who were responsible for the devices;
A copy of the Department's assessment upon completion of the Construction Contract Monitors pilot project.

Please liaise with the Committee Clerk should you wish to discuss any of these points.

I am also copying this letter to Mr Stephen Peover, Accounting Officer, for his information.

I should appreciate your response by 7 May 2010.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Maskey sig
Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010
to Mr Leo O'Reilly

Room 371
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Tel: (028) 9052 1208
Fax: (028) 9052 0366
E: pac.committee@niassembly.gov.uk
aoibhinn.treanor@niassembly.gov.uk

23 April 2010

Mr Leo O'Reilly
Accounting Officer
Department of Environment
Clarence Court
10-18 Adelaide Street
Belfast, BT2 8GB

Dear Leo,

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Thank you for your participation in the Committee's evidence session yesterday.

As agreed at the session, the Committee would like to request some further information from you, as listed below.

1. Paragraphs 2.2.1 to 2.2.10 of the Northern Ireland Audit Office detailed note addresses the issues of illegal dumping. I should be grateful if you would provide the Department's latest assessment of the extent of illegal dumping including:

a. the number and location of sites;

b. the estimated tonnage of waste and where it originated;

c. whether any of the waste was imported from outside the island of Ireland;

d. and your estimate of the tax revenue lost each year.

2. The current costs incurred by the Department on clear-up and how much is expected to be spent to clear up all sites.

3. The number of sites that will require a spend in excess of £1 million per site to clear up.

4. Clarification of the respective impacts of toxic and environmentally polluting waste.

Please liaise with the Committee Clerk if you wish to discuss the above.

I should appreciate your response by 07 May 2010.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Maskey sig
Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee

Correspondence of 27 April 2010 from
Detective Chief Superintendant Roy McComb

D/Chief Superintendent
Head of Organised Crime Branch
Crime Operations
C1 Organised Crime Branch
Knocknagoney House,
29 Knocknagoney Road,
Belfast, BT4 2PP

Tel (028) 9092 2400

Our Ref: OCB/586/10

27 April 2010

Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee
Room 371
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Dear Mr Maskey

RE: PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

I refer to your letter dated 23 April 2010 to Assistant Chief Constable Harris. The information you require is as follows:

1. The number of people who contacted the extortion helpline since 2007/08 is none;

2. As a result no one was charged with extortion; and

3. The number of successful prosecutions of those charged is none.

I hope this is of assistance.

Yours sincerely

Roy McComb
D/Chief Superintendent

Correspondence of 10 May 2010
from Mr Leo O'Reilly

Clarence Court
10-18 Adelaide Street
Belfast
BT2 8GB

Telephone: (028) 9054-0002
Facsimile: (028) 9054-0092
Email: leo.oreilly@doeni.gov.uk

Our reference: PSE: 143.10

10 May 2010

Mr Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Dear Mr Maskey

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Thank you for your letter dated 23 April 2010, seeking further information on aspects of my Department's involvement in combating organised crime.

In response to the Committee's queries, we would advise as follows:

1. Paragraphs 2.2.1 to 2.2.10 of the Northern Ireland Audit Office detailed note addresses the issues of illegal dumping. I should be grateful if you would provide the Department's latest assessment of the extent of illegal dumping including:

a. the number and location of sites;

Since starting to investigate illegal waste management, NIEA's Environmental Crime Unit (ECU) has secured 381 convictions. The number of illegal waste sites is not recorded per se, but the number of convictions broadly correlates with the number of sites where illegal waste is present that we have detected and have achieved conviction in court. The Department recognises that this is only an estimate of the scale of the problem, the activity being covert and often carried out in rural, remote or industrial areas.

Sites are located in all counties of Northern Ireland, however at present NIEA does not record site locations on a map-based system.

The Department observes that the large scale illegal dumping of waste from the Republic of Ireland (ROI) is no longer occurring. At present, the illegal management of Northern Ireland (NI) construction, demolition and excavation waste is increasingly being carried out by business entities who hold permissions to operate e.g. waste carriers and site operators.

However, the Department acknowledges that there is potential for significant financial gain in many areas of waste management and we remain vigilant to other areas apart from illegal dumping of waste.

Recent developments include the large scale storage of waste vehicle tyres (which net an illegal operator around £1.50 to £2.00 per tyre). Two well-publicised fires have occurred in Londonderry recently.

The collection and processing of waste fuel oils is also an area of increasing concern – we have good working relationships with HMRC and sit on a cross border fuel subgroup of the Organised Crime Taskforce in this regard with a number of joint operations having been carried out recently.

b. the estimated tonnage of waste and where it originated;

Due to a range of practical and operational constraints, NIEA has not recorded the tonnage of waste at each site in the 381 convictions quoted above. It is therefore not possible to provide a total tonnage of illegally landfilled waste in Northern Ireland.

However, we know that the 20 sites containing solely waste from ROI represent around 250,000 tonnes of municipal-type waste. To put this in context, a small NI council would deal with around 10,000 tonnes of municipal waste per year.

NIEA has previously estimated that up to 1.7 million tonnes of construction, demolition and excavation waste (42.5% of the typical annual total of this waste stream produced) per year is illegally dumped. Again, we realise that, due to the nature of the activity, this is merely an estimate; however, it gives an indication of the scale of the problem.

c. whether any of the waste was imported from outside the island of Ireland;

Our current knowledge does not suggest that there is organised crime involvement in importation of waste into Northern Ireland from outside the island of Ireland.

d. and your estimate of the tax revenue lost each year.

Tax revenue for legal landfill includes landfill tax (which is currently £48 per tonne of 'active' waste). In the early years of investigations the rate of landfill tax was £12 in 2002 and rose year on year. It is not always possible to determine when waste was deposited and therefore the amount of tax revenue potentially lost.

However, for each tonne of illegally deposited waste deposited at current rates, £48 of landfill tax is not paid by a legitimate site operator, VAT at 17.5% on the gate fee charged by the landfill site plus landfill tax. For non-hazardous waste in Northern Ireland at present this would be in the region of a further £17 per tonne of waste. In summary a potential £65 of tax revenue can be evaded when a tonne of waste is illegally managed if it should have been disposed of by landfill.

2. The current costs incurred by the Department on clear-up and how much is expected to be spent to clear up all sites.

At present the Department does not carry out waste removal at illegal sites – the Department's view is that the waste should be removed by those who were responsible for the deposit in accordance with the 'polluter pays' principle.

NIEA currently makes use of notices (under Article 27 of the Waste and Contaminated Land (NI) Order 1997) to direct the keeper of illegal waste to remove it. The use of this power is in the process of being legally challenged by judicial review and we await the outcome of this ongoing case.

The exception to this is the repatriation of waste from the Republic of Ireland under the terms of an agreement between the jurisdictions to remove waste from NI under the Transfrontier Shipment of Wastes regime.

This relates to the removal of approximately 250,000 tonnes of biodegradable waste and contaminated substrate for legal landfill in the Republic of Ireland (RoI). ROI are funding the full costs of disposal and the remaining costs (excavation, transport and site works to prevent pollution) are being split 80:20 between ROI and NI.

The total cost of this project is likely to be up to 15 million Euro. NIEA is exploring the potential use of Serious Crime Prevention Orders introduced by the Serious Crime Act 2007 as a means of dealing with illegally deposited waste without incurring public expenditure

It is noteworthy that the definition of "Serious Crime" in the Act includes offences under Article 4 of the Waste & Contaminated Land (NI) Order 1997, the ECU's principal regulatory responsibility.

The Act was part of the Government Strategy (detailed in a Government Green Paper in 2006) to combat Organised and Financial Crime. A key measure in the Act is a Serious Crime Prevention Order. These orders will be used against those involved in serious crime and the purpose of their terms will be to protect the public by preventing, restricting or disrupting involvement in serious crime. They will be made on application to the High Court, or the Crown Court upon conviction, and breach of the order will be a criminal offence.

These orders hold out the prospect of a new kind of regulatory regime, flexible and risk based, imposing no burdens at all on legitimate companies but a proportionate and highly targeted burden on specific organisations for which there is already good evidence of complicity in criminal activity. With many of these businesses straddling the legitimate and illegitimate economy, there should be a good prospect of these orders succeeding in prompting many businesses to leave the criminal field, faced with the restrictions and the reputational risk which these orders would impose. If the businesses continued to be complicit in organised crime, the restrictions imposed should make them more vulnerable to law enforcement action.

As a Serious Crime Prevention Order can contain prohibitions, restrictions or requirements, possible uses of the Act could be an Order prohibiting a person or business convicted of operating an illegal waste business from further participation in the business or an Order requiring a person or business to remediate an illegally landfilled or polluted site. Furthermore, if a person fails to comply with an Order they can be ordered to forfeit property involved in the offence.

3. The number of sites that will require a spend in excess of £1 million per site to clear up.

The current NIEA working estimate for removal and legal disposal of non-hazardous waste is in the region of £250 per tonne for site works, transport, excavation, legal disposal costs etc. This suggests that sites containing more than 4,000 tonnes of waste would cost at least £1 million. It must be stressed that this is an estimate and that many operational issues could influence the overall cost.

As stated in 1b above NIEA has not recorded the tonnage of waste at each site for which it has secured a conviction, and it is therefore not possible to estimate the number of sites that will require in access of £1 million to clear up.

Clarification of the respective impacts of toxic and environmentally polluting waste

The majority of waste that is found illegally dumped in Northern Ireland falls into the band that is termed 'non-hazardous' by waste legislation. This includes household-type waste that has originated from ROI and also the majority of construction, demolition and excavation waste that is commonly detected and which has been generated in Northern Ireland.

There are several environmental and potential human health impacts associated with the illegal management (including burning) of non-hazardous waste.

At the simplest level, the deposition of waste on top of an area of land can damage habitats for living organisms.

Non-hazardous waste breaks down or rots (known as biodegradation) in landfill conditions. This process continues for decades in large masses of waste and generates polluting liquid (known as leachate) and landfill gas for the duration of the time it takes to break down completely. This means that illegal landfill presents a long-term pollution problem.

Leachate can be several times stronger in its organic composition than sewage and is capable of contaminating surface and groundwater. It also contains all the products of waste decay and can have metals, oils and other substances present in varying amounts depending on the composition of the original waste.

Landfill gas is comprised of oxides of carbon and methane. It also contains a range of very strongly smelling compounds in small amounts, but commonly it is detected as very unpleasant smells in the vicinity of waste – not unlike that associated with a household waste bin. Landfill gas is a greenhouse gas and is explosive in nature due to its methane content.

Illegal waste operators will often set fire to waste in order to reduce its volume before burying the residue. The resultant smoke is polluting in nature and recent tyre fires in Londonderry illustrate the impact on human health that such smoke can have.

Thus, although most illegal waste in Northern Ireland is legally defined as 'non-hazardous', this is a technical distinction, as this waste can still cause significant damage to the environment and human health.

A small amount of illegal waste found in Northern Ireland is legally defined as hazardous. For example, discarded asbestos material is hazardous due to its toxic and carcinogenic properties. Likewise, acidic fuel laundering waste is hazardous due to its irritant or corrosive properties.

Yours sincerely,

Leo O'Reilly sig
Leo O'Reilly

Correspondence of 11 May 2010
from Ms Fiona Hamill

Fiona Hamill
Treasury Officer of Accounts
Central Finance Group
Room P3
Rathgael House
Balloo Road
Bangor
BT19 7NA

Tel No: 028 91858128 (x 68128)
email: fiona.hamill@dfpni.gov.uk and
jill.downie@dfpni.gov.uk

11 May 2010

Mr Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Northern Ireland Assembly
Public Accounts Committee
Room 371
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Dear Paul

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Thank you for your letter of 23 April in which you request some further information following the Committee's Evidence Session on 22 April. I apologise for the slight delay in responding but this was due to the need to request information from all NI departments. The information requested is provided below.

How many public bodies have appointed Money Laundering Reporting Officers?

Finance Directors have informed me that six Money Laundering Reporting Officers (MLROs) have been appointed in the following public bodies

Department for Social Development (including the Social Security Agency).
Northern Ireland Housing Executive.
Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA) has two MLROs, one for DVA Testing and one for DVA Licensing.
Northern Ireland Environment Agency
Planning Service

Where MLROs have not been appointed in public bodies, this is because it was considered that the business conducted by those public bodies did not fall into 'relevant business' as defined in Article 2 of the Money Laundering Regulations 2003 and/or that the bodies were not identified as being at risk of being used to launder money. From the supplementary information provided, Finance Directors make it clear that departments and their arm's length bodies are mindful of the need to minimise any opportunity for individuals or organisations to use them as a conduit for money laundering.

Confirmation from the Department that the IT systems in operation within all public bodies for which it has responsibility are consistent with the Information Assurance Policy that is in effect within the NICS.

I can confirm that the IT systems in operation within all public bodies for which the Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP) has responsibility are consistent with the Information Assurance Policy that is in effect within the NICS. In addition, where DFP and its agencies process, store and transmit sensitive or protectively marked data, this is subject to an Accreditation process that complies with HMG Security Policy Framework (SPF) and staff have been made aware of relevant Information Assurance policies and procedures.

How many laptops/notebooks and blackberries were lost or stolen from departments in the last three years; how many of these contained data that would be useful to organised criminals; and an overview of the disciplinary action, if any, taken against staff who were responsible for the devices?

The total number of laptops/notebooks recorded by NI departments as lost or stolen over the period 1 April 2007 to 31 March 2010 is forty two. Of those forty two, twelve were stolen during the recent incident at Royston House, the building in which DFP's Central Human Resource team is located. The total number of blackberry devices recorded as lost or stolen over the same period is eleven.

In the Royston House incident, a small number of laptops contained some personal data. However, immediate action was taken to minimise the loss and subsequent PSNI investigation reports indicate that the data was not compromised. In relation to other incidents within the NICS, departments have not identified any incidents where stolen computers contained data that would have been useful to organised criminals. More generally, the maximum permitted classification of the data being transferred or stored in the main NICS network is 'restricted' which limits the impact of data loss or unauthorised access and the network is fully accredited to run at this level. A specific confidential network, with appropriate additional security protection is in place for use by the Department of Justice. Blackberries are encrypted devices and the data contained on them is not accessible to unauthorised users. In addition, the laptops/notebooks of all priority users within the NICS are now encrypted and the roll-out to the remainder of users is due to be completed by the end of 2010.

Regarding the issue of disciplinary action, with the exception of one case where a formal written warning was issued, disciplinary action was not considered appropriate. In the Royston House incident, the laptops were secured or locked away and, as the theft was the result of a break-in, a subsequent investigation found that disciplinary action was not justified.

The NICS takes data security very seriously and as a result of two Data Protection Reviews conducted in 2007 and 2008 NI departments have implemented a series of recommended actions designed to mitigate against possible future data loss. In addition to the encryption exercise outlined above, this work has included:

securing removable media (introducing secure USB sticks);
developing an online Data Protection awareness training package for staff; and
developing appropriate guidance on the use and security of laptops (10 Key Rules and Laptop Policy),

All NICS staff have been informed that sensitive or personal data must not be stored on a laptop, mobile phone or removable media unless it is encrypted.

A copy of the Department's assessment upon completion of the Construction Contract Monitors pilot project currently.

The Construction Contract Monitor (CCM) pilot has not yet been completed. The future operation of CCM, including funding options, will be reviewed by the Procurement Board in June 2010. Once the CCM pilot has been completed, an assessment will be undertaken and this will be provided to the Committee.

I trust this is helpful

Yours sincerely

Fiona Hamill sig
Fiona Hamill

Correspondence of 27 May 2010
from Mr Leo O'Reilly

Clarence Court
10-18 Adelaide Street
Belfast
BT2 8GB

Telephone: (028) 9054-0002
Facsimile: (028) 9054-0092
Email: leo.oreilly@doeni.gov.uk

Our reference: PSE: 163.10

27 May 2010

Mr Paul Maskey
Chairperson
Public Accounts Committee
Parliament Buildings
Belfast
BT4 3XX

Dear Mr Maskey,

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Further to my letter of 10 May 2010 I wish to clarify two points that were referred to:

In paragraph 1 (b) and 1 (d) we referred to the estimated tonnage of waste illegally deposited and described the loss in tax revenue resulting from the criminality – the relevant parts of both paragraphs are reproduced below for ease of reference

a. "the estimated tonnage of waste and where it originated;

b. and your estimate of the tax revenue lost each year.

In summary a potential £65 of tax revenue can be evaded when a tonne of waste is illegally managed if it should have been disposed of by landfill."

In order to further clarify this information would wish to add that the total loss of revenue to HMRC cannot be reliably calculated by multiplying £65 per tonne by the estimate of 1.7 million tonnes illegally disposed of each year. The reasons for this calculation not being appropriate include the limited confidence level on the tonnage estimate, that fact that an un-identifiable proportion of illegally dumped waste could have been recycled rather than landfilled, that an unknown percentage of the waste is inert and would not attract the tax quoted and a range of factors associated with clandestine activity such as this. However, using these figures a 'worst case' estimate would be in the region of £110 million per year in tax, which does not include loss of earnings to the legitimate waste industry that could have legally dealt with the waste concerned.

2. "The current costs incurred by the Department on clear-up and how much is expected to be spent to clear up all sites.

The total cost of this project is likely to be up to 15 million Euro."

I would like to clarify that the total cost of this project has been estimated at 85 Million Euro and that the 15 million Euro quoted above represents the anticipated Northern Ireland contribution.

Yours sincerely,

NIA Image
Leo O'Reilly

Appendix 4

List of Witnesses
Who Gave Oral Evidence
to the Committee

List of Witnesses Who Gave Oral Evidence
to the Committee

1. Mr Leo O'Reilly, Accounting Officer, Department of the Environment (DOE);

2. Ms Anne Blacker, Head of Environmental Crime Unit, Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA);

3. Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris, Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI);

4. Detective Chief Superintendant Roy McComb, Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI);

5. Mr Kieran Donnelly, Comptroller and Auditor General; and

6. Ms Fiona Hamill, Treasury Officer of Accounts.

Public Accounts Committee

Report on Combating Organised Crime

Session 2009/2010

Seventeenth Report

Membership and Powers

Table of Contents

Report

Appendix 1:

Appendix 2:

Appendix 3:

Appendix 4:

List of Abbreviations used in the Report

Executive Summary

Summary of Recommendations

Recommendation 1

Recommendation 2

Recommendation 3

Recommendation 4

Recommendation 5

Introduction

The Nature and Scale of Organised Crime in Northern Ireland

Risk of money laundering

Risk to IT systems

Impact of Organised Crime on Different Sectors of the Economy and Society

Impact of illegal dumping

Tackling illegal dumping

Tackling extortion

Measures Taken by Government Departments and Law Enforcement Agencies

Raising public sector awareness

Recommendation 1

Recommendation 2

Recommendation 3

Additional Measures Taken to Combat Organised Crime

Adequacy of regulation and licensing and raising public awareness

Recommendation 4

Recommendation 5

Annexe 1: Trends in Organised Crime

Annexe 1: Main types of organised crime; costs and whether rising or falling

Source: NIAO Memorandum * see list of abbreviations

Notes:

Anticipated new areas of increasing organised crime activity

Annexe 2: Information Relating to Recommendation 1

Annexe 2

Recommendations in Part 1

Recommendations in Part 2

Recommendations in Part 3

Recommendations in Part 4

Recommendations not directly applicable to N.I. Departments or no longer relevant.

Part 1

Part 2

Appendix 1

Minutes of Proceedings of the Committee Relating to the Report

Thursday, 15 April 2010 Room 144, Parliament Buildings

4. Briefing on the NIAO Memorandum on Combating Organised Crime.

Thursday, 22 April 2010 The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings

2. Evidence Session on the 'Memorandum to the Committee of Public Accounts from the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland: Combating Organised Crime'.

Thursday, 29 April 2010 Room 144, Parliament Buildings

7. Issues arising from the oral evidence session on the 'Memorandum to the Committee of Public Accounts from the Comptroller and Auditor General for Northern Ireland: Combating Organised Crime.'

Thursday, 3 June 2010 Room 144, Parliament Buildings

6. Consideration of the Draft Committee Report on 'Combating Organised Crime'.

Consideration of the Executive Summary

Appendix 2

Minutes of Evidence

Appendix 3

Correspondence

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010 to Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010 to Ms Fiona Hamill

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010 to Mr Leo O'Reilly

PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Correspondence of 27 April 2010 from Detective Chief Superintendant Roy McComb

RE: PAC Evidence Session on Combating Organised Crime

Correspondence of 10 May 2010 from Mr Leo O'Reilly

1. Paragraphs 2.2.1 to 2.2.10 of the Northern Ireland Audit Office detailed note addresses the issues of illegal dumping. I should be grateful if you would provide the Department's latest assessment of the extent of illegal dumping including:

a. the number and location of sites;

b. the estimated tonnage of waste and where it originated;

c. whether any of the waste was imported from outside the island of Ireland;

d. and your estimate of the tax revenue lost each year.

2. The current costs incurred by the Department on clear-up and how much is expected to be spent to clear up all sites.

Report on
Combating Organised Crime

The Nature and Scale of Organised Crime
in Northern Ireland

Impact of Organised Crime on Different Sectors
of the Economy and Society

Measures Taken by Government Departments
and Law Enforcement Agencies

Additional Measures Taken to Combat
Organised Crime

Annexe 1:
Main types of organised crime; costs and whether rising or falling

Recommendations not directly applicable to N.I.
Departments or no longer relevant.

Minutes of Proceedings
of the Committee
Relating to the Report

Thursday, 15 April 2010
Room 144, Parliament Buildings

Thursday, 22 April 2010
The Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings

Thursday, 29 April 2010
Room 144, Parliament Buildings

Thursday, 3 June 2010
Room 144, Parliament Buildings

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010 to
Assistant Chief Constable Drew Harris

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010
to Ms Fiona Hamill

Chairperson's Letter of 23 April 2010
to Mr Leo O'Reilly

Correspondence of 27 April 2010 from
Detective Chief Superintendant Roy McComb

Correspondence of 10 May 2010
from Mr Leo O'Reilly

Correspondence of 11 May 2010
from Ms Fiona Hamill

Correspondence of 27 May 2010
from Mr Leo O'Reilly

List of Witnesses
Who Gave Oral Evidence
to the Committee

List of Witnesses Who Gave Oral Evidence
to the Committee