PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
Thursday, 24 January 2008
Room 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr John O’Dowd (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Trevor Lunn
Mr Ian McCrea
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
Ms Dawn Purvis
In Attendance:
Mrs Cathie White (Assembly Clerk)
Mrs Gillian Lewis (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mrs Nicola Shephard (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Ricky Shek (Clerical Officer)
Apologies:
Mr John Dallat
Mr Patsy McGlone
The meeting opened at 2.00pm in public session.
The Chairperson welcomed Mr Ian McCrea as a member of the Committee. Mr McCrea confirmed that his interests are:
- Member of Cookstown District Council.
- Member of Cookstown District Policing Partnership.
- Member of NI Local Government Association.
- Member of NI Local Government Association, RPA subgroup.
- Member of Apprentice Boys of Derry.
2.02pm Mr McLaughlin joined the meeting.
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Apologies.
Apologies are listed above.
The Chairperson welcomed Mr Ricky Shek to the Committee staff.
2.04pm Ms Purvis joined the meeting.
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Minutes of the meeting on 17 January 2008.
Agreed: The minutes were agreed.
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Matters arising.
The Committee noted papers received from the Accounting Officer, Department for Regional Development on the governance arrangements in Northern Ireland Water.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward the papers to the Committee for Regional Development.
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Consideration of Memorandum of Response on the Committee’s Report on Northern Ireland’s Road Safety Strategy.
Members considered the response to the Committee’s report on Northern Ireland’s Road Safety Strategy. Witnesses attending were Mr John Dowdall CB, Comptroller and Auditor General (C&AG), Ms Ursula Moyna, Audit Manager, and Mr Joe Campbell, Audit Manager, NIAO.
Agreed: Members agreed to obtain an update on the progress against the Department’s response to the Committee’s recommendation in twelve months.
Agreed: Members agreed to write to the Secretary of State reminding him that the Committee is awaiting a response from the Policing Board.
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Consideration of Committee Draft Forward Work Programme.
Members discussed the draft forward work programme for the period April-July 2008 and considered the updated list of reports provided by Northern Ireland Audit Office (NIAO).
Agreed: Members agreed to postpone consideration of the NIAO Report ‘The PFI Contract for Northern Ireland’s New Vehicle Testing Facilities’.
Members discussed two Memoranda of Response, namely, The Management of Substitution Cover for Teachers and Improving Numeracy and Literacy in Schools.
Agreed: Members agreed to postpone asking for an update report on the Memorandum of Response Improving Numeracy and Literacy in Schools until just before summer recess.
Agreed: Members agreed that a letter would be sent to the relevant Accounting Officer asking for an update report on the Memorandum of Response The Management of Substitution Cover for Teachers just before Easter recess.
Agreed: Members agreed the draft forward work programme and for it to be placed on the internet.
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Briefing on the NIAO Report ‘Older People and Domiciliary Care’.
Mr John Dowdall CB, C&AG, Mr Kieran Donnelly, Deputy C&AG, Mr Sean McKay, Director of Value for Money, and Mr Joe Campbell, Audit Manager, briefed the Committee on the NIAO Report, ‘Older People and Domiciliary Care’, and answered members’ questions.
2.22pm The meeting went in to closed session.
Agreed: Members agreed to update the question rota to include Mr Ian McCrea.
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Memorandum of Response: The Use of Operating Theatres in the NI Health and Personal Social Services.
Mr John Dowdall CB, C&AG, Mr Kieran Donnelly, Deputy C&AG, Mr Terry Woodhouse, Audit Manager, and Mr Joe Campbell, Audit Manager, briefed the Committee on an update paper in respect of the Memorandum of Response ‘The Use of Operating Theatres in the NI Health and Personal Social Services’, and answered members’ questions.
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Issues arising from oral evidence session on the NIAO Reports Northern Ireland Resource Accounts – Northern Ireland Child Support Agency Client Funds Account 2003-04 – 2006-07.
Members discussed issues relating to the evidence session.
3.00pm Mr Hamilton left the meeting.
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Any other business.
Mr Ciaran Doran, Deputy Treasury Officer of Accounts (TOA), and Mr John Dowdall, C&AG, briefed the Committee on Change in Audit responsibility arising from Companies Act 2006 – Consultation with PAC under Audit and Accountability (NI) Order 2003.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that Department of Finance and Personnel (DFP) proceed to make the necessary Statutory Rule (SR) in the agreed timescales and that the list of bodies specified in the paper should constitute the list included in the SR.
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Press Release.
Members considered a press release in relation to the launch of the Committee’s Report on Use of Consultants.
Agreed: Members agreed the press release.
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Consideration of the Committee’s Draft Report on Job Evaluation in the Education and Library Boards.
Members considered the draft report paragraph by paragraph. The witnesses attending were Mr Kieran Donnelly, Deputy C&AG, Mr Sean McKay, Director of Value for Money, Mr Brian Gardiner, Audit Manager, and Mr Joe Campbell, Audit Manager, NIAO.
The Committee considered the main body of the report.
Paragraphs 1 – 10 read and agreed.
Paragraph 11 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 12 read and agreed.
Paragraph 13 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 14 read and agreed.
Paragraph 15 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 16 – 17 read and agreed.
Paragraph 18 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 19 – 24 read and agreed.
Paragraph 25 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 26 read and agreed.
Paragraph 27 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 28 – 35 read and agreed.
Paragraph 36 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 37- 38 read and agreed.
Paragraphs 39 – 40 read, amended and agreed.
4.06pm Mr Lunn left the meeting.
Paragraph 41 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 42 – 47 read and agreed.
The Committee considered the Executive Summary of the report.
Paragraphs1 - 12 read and agreed.
Agreed: Members ordered the report to be printed.
Agreed: Members agreed that the letter from the Accounting Officer, Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure, together with the Chairperson’s letters requesting additional information and Mr Will Haire’s responses would be included in the Committee’s report.
Agreed: Members agreed to embargo the report until 00.01am on 14 February 2008, when the report would be officially released.
Agreed: Members agreed that they would consider whether to hold a press conference when the Clerk has gauged press interest in the report.
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Any other business.
The Chairperson informed the Committee that Mr John Dowdall CB, C&AG and Mr David Thomson, TOA, will brief the Committee on Excess Votes at the meeting on 7 February 2008.
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Date, time and place of next meeting.
The next meeting will be held on Thursday, 31 January 2008 at 2.00pm in the Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 4.17pm.