PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
THURSDAY, 21 JUNE 2007
ROOM 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present: Mr John O’Dowd (Chairperson)
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr John Dallat
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr David Hilditch
Mr Patsy McGlone
Mr Mitchel McLaughlin
In Attendance: Mrs Debbie Pritchard (Principal Clerk)
Mrs Cathie White (Assembly Clerk)
Mrs Gillian Lewis (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mrs Pauline Hunter (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr John Lunny (Clerical Officer)
Apologies: Mr Willie Clarke
Ms Dawn Purvis
The meeting opened at 2.03pm in public session.
1. Apologies.
Apologies are detailed above.
2. Minutes of the meeting on 14 June 2007.
Agreed: The minutes were agreed.
2.05pm Mr McLaughlin joined the meeting.
3. Matters arising.
Members noted the response from the Editor of Debates to the Clerk’s correspondence enquiring if the Official Report of proceedings for the Committee’s oral evidence sessions could be made available any earlier.
Agreed: Members agreed to continue to hold oral evidence sessions in the Senate Chamber on Thursday afternoons.
Mr John Dowdall, C&AG, briefed the Committee on a paper explaining the background to Ministerial Directions and answered members’ questions.
4. Briefing on the NIAO Report ‘Outpatients: Missed Appointments and Cancelled Clinics’.
Mr John Dowdall, C&AG, Mr Barry Edgar, Assistant Auditor General, and Mr Sean McKay, Audit Manager, briefed the Committee on the NIAO Report, ‘Outpatients: Missed Appointments and Cancelled Clinics’, and answered members’ questions.
2.20pm Mr McGlone joined the meeting.
2.24pm The meeting went into closed session.
2.29pm Mr Craig joined the meeting.
The C&AG briefed the Committee on the rules relating to supplementary written evidence as detailed in ‘A Guide to Scrutiny of Public Expenditure’, section 3, paragraph 10.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk would inform the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety that additional evidence would not be accepted in advance of the evidence session next week.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk would write to the Treasury Officer of Accounts to ask him to emphasise to Departmental Accounting Officers the rules relating to supplementary written evidence as detailed in ‘A Guide to Scrutiny of Public Expenditure’.
Members discussed two different formats of briefing papers for oral evidence sessions.
Agreed: Members agreed that the new format would be used for the forthcoming oral evidence session.
The C&AG briefed the Committee on the forthcoming NIAO Report ‘Job Evaluation in the Education and Library Boards’.
5. Issues from oral evidence session on the NIAO Report ‘Springvale Educational Village Project’
Members discussed obtaining the views of the community partnership boards and Belfast Institute of Higher and Further Education (BIFHE) on the Springvale Educational Village Project. Mr John Dowdall, C&AG, Mr Robert Hutcheson, Director of Value for Money, and Mr Alan Orme, Audit Manager, attended as witnesses.
Agreed: Members agreed to seek the views of the three partnership boards, and BIFHE.
Members discussed the attendance of different witnesses for the oral evidence sessions.
Agreed: Members agreed that, when they had agreed their forward work programme for the next session, the Clerk would inform the relevant Accounting Officers of the expected dates for the oral evidence sessions, and would also request the names of the witnesses who would attend. The forward work programme would then be updated with this information for the first meeting of the new session in the autumn.
6. Consideration of Draft Committee Report ‘The Upgrade of the Belfast to Bangor Railway Line’
Members considered the draft report paragraph by paragraph. The witnesses attending were Mr John Dowdall, C&AG, Mr Eddie Bradley, Director of Value for Money, and Mr Paul Craig, Audit Manager.
The Committee considered the main body of the report.
Paragraph 1 read and agreed.
3.31pm Mr Hilditch left the meeting.
Paragraphs 2 – 8 read and agreed.
Paragraphs 9 and 10 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 11 – 17 read and agreed.
Paragraph 18 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 19 read and agreed.
Paragraph 20 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 22 – 25 read and agreed.
3.40pm Mr McGlone left the meeting.
Paragraph 26 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 27 read and agreed.
Paragraph 28 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 29 read and agreed.
Paragraph 30 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 31 and 32 read and agreed.
Paragraph 33 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 34 – 36 read and agreed.
3.58pm Mr Dallat left the meeting.
Paragraphs 37 – 38 read and agreed.
Paragraph 39 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 40 read and agreed.
4.00pm Mr Dallat rejoined the meeting.
Paragraphs 41 – 44 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 45 – 48 read and agreed.
Paragraph 49 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 50 read and agreed.
Paragraph 51 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 52 – 54 read and agreed.
Paragraph 55 read, amended and agreed.
4.20pm Mr Dallat left the meeting.
Paragraph 56 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 57 – 63 read and agreed.
Paragraph 64 read, amended and agreed.
4.25pm Mr Dallat rejoined the meeting.
Paragraph 65 read and agreed.
Paragraph 66 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 67 and 68 read and agreed.
Paragraph 69 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 70 and 71 read and agreed.
4.35pm Mr Beggs left the meeting.
Paragraph 72 read, amended and agreed.
The Committee considered the Executive Summary of the report.
Paragraphs 1 – 4 read and agreed.
Paragraphs 5 – 7 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraph 8 read and agreed.
Paragraphs 9 - 11 read, amended and agreed.
Paragraphs 12 – 16 read and agreed.
Paragraph 17 read, amended and agreed.
Agreed: Members ordered the report to be printed and agreed that the Chairperson would agree the final draft of the Committee’s report.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk’s letters to Mr Gerry McGinn asking for additional written information and Mr McGinn’s reply would be included in the Committee’s report, together with a list of projects costing over £1million; the remaining papers will be laid in the Assembly library.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Chairperson would agree the Minutes of Proceedings to allow an extract to be included in the Committee’s report.
Agreed: Members agreed to embargo the report until 12 noon on Thursday, 5 July 2007, when the report would be officially released at a press conference.
Agreed: Members agreed to consider who should be invited to the press conference and who should receive a pre-released copy of the report.
4.51pm The NIAO officials left the meeting.
7. Any other business.
Members noted correspondence from Mr Edward Cooke relating to the Domestic Rating System within Northern Ireland.
Agreed: Members agreed that the correspondence should be forwarded to the Committee for Finance and Personnel as this issue falls within its remit.
Members noted a letter from Ms Felicity Huston, Commissioner for Public Appointments for Northern Ireland and an email from the Principal Clerk relating to a previous briefing paper which Ms Huston provided to the Committee.
8. Date, time and place of next meeting.
The next meeting will be held on Thursday, 28 June 2007 at 2.00pm in the Senate Chamber, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 4.53pm.