COMMITTEE FOR JUSTICE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
THURSDAY, 01 JULY 2010
ROOM 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Lord Morrow MLA (Chairman)
Mr Raymond McCartney MLA (Deputy Chairman)
Mr Jonathan Bell MLA
Mr Tom Elliott MLA
Mr Paul Givan MLA
Mr Alban Maginness MLA
Mr Conall McDevitt MLA
Mr David McNarry MLA
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín MLA
Mr John O’Dowd MLA
In Attendance:
Mrs Christine Darrah (Assembly Clerk)
Mrs Roisin Donnelly (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mr Vincent Gribbin (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mr Joe Westland (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Kevin Marks (Clerical Officer)
The meeting commenced at 1.40 p.m. in public session.
The Chairman welcomed Mr Paul Givan to his first Justice Committee meeting following his appointment as a member of the Committee.
The Committee noted Mr Givan’s entry in the register of Members’ Interests.
1. Apologies
There were no apologies.
2. Draft minutes of the meetings held on 21 and 24 June 2010
Agreed: The Committee approved the draft minutes of the meetings of 21 and 24 June 2010.
3. Matters arising
The Committee considered a letter from the Department of Justice outlining options for engaging on the Budget 2010 process during the summer recess.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to receive information on Budget 2010 by correspondence during the summer recess and to schedule a briefing for the first meeting on 9 September.
Agreed: The Chairman would call an earlier meeting if required to deal with any urgent matter.
4. Introduction with the Attorney General for Northern Ireland , Mr John Larkin QC
The Attorney General for Northern Ireland, Mr John Larkin QC and Mr Maurice Dowling and Mr Eamonn McConville from the Office of the Attorney, joined the meeting at 1.48 p.m.
The Attorney General introduced himself to the Committee, outlined his role and responsibilities and answered questions from Members on issues including his accountability and relationship with the Executive, his relationship with the Public Prosecution Service and accountability arrangements for it.
2.42 p.m. Mr Elliot left the meeting.
The Chairman thanked the Attorney and his officials for their attendance.
5. Briefing by Assembly Researchers on the European Commission Work Programme 2010 and relevant Justice issues and the Cost per Prisoner Place
Tim Moore, Senior Assembly Researcher and Ryan Molloy, Assembly Researcher joined the meeting at 2.43 p.m.
Tim Moore and Ryan Molloy, outlined the key points in their research paper on the European Commission Work Programme 2010 and relevant Justice issues and answered questions from Members.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that Assembly Research and Library Services would monitor developments in relation to the relevant EU Justice initiatives.
Tim Moore and Ryan Molloy outlined the key points in their research paper on the Cost per Prisoner Place and answered questions from Members.
The Chairman thanked Mr Moore and Mr Molloy for the briefing and they left the meeting.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to request further information on the staff to prisoner ratio in England.
6. Briefing on the Policing Architecture Protocol
David Hughes, Head of Policing Policy and Strategy Division and Tim Logan, Head of Strategy and Support Branch, joined the meeting at 3.02 p.m.
The officials briefed the Committee on the latest draft of the Policing Architecture Protocol and answered questions from Members on issues including the need for a Protocol, the role of the Committee and the Policing Board in the scrutiny of the policing budget and the views of the Policing Board on the draft Protocol.
The officials agreed to reflect the issues raised by the Committee in a revised draft of the Protocol and provide further information on the Policing Boards’ views.
3.10 p.m. Ms Ní Chuilín left the meeting.
3.13 p.m. Mr Elliott rejoined the meeting.
3.30 p.m. Mr Elliott left the meeting.
The Chairman thanked the officials for the briefing and Mr Logan left the meeting.
7. Briefing on the Department of Justice proposed Programme for Government Addendum
Gareth Johnston, Head of Justice Strategy Division, Department of Justice, Colin McConnell, Head of Operations in the Prison Service, and George Keatley, Head of Business Operations in the Courts and Tribunals Servicejoined the meeting at 3.31 p.m.
The officials provided information and clarification on issues raised by the Committee during its consideration of the draft Programme for Government Addendum at the meeting on 24 June 2010 and answered questions from Members on issues relating to the key goals and objectives including the targets and the statistical information on which they were set.
During the question and answer session officials agreed to provide the Committee with further information.
3.55 p.m. Mr McNarry left the meeting.
The Chairman thanked the officials for the briefing and they left the meeting.
Agreed: Following a discussion during which a number of Members raised concerns and reservations regarding some of the key goals and targets in the draft Programme for Government addendum, the Committee agreed to give further consideration to the matter, if necessary at a meeting during the summer recess.
8. Justice Bill - Departmental Briefing on Legal Aid Reform Proposals and Remuneration for VHCCs and Standard Fee Cases in the Crown Court
Robert Crawford, Head of Public Legal Service Division in the NI Courts and Tribunals Service, Angela Ritchie, Business Manager of Civil Legal Aid and John Halliday, Business Manager of Criminal Legal Aid joined the meeting at 4.15 p.m.
The officials briefed the Committee on the Legal Aid Reform proposals to be included in the Justice Bill relating to a new means test for the grant of criminal legal aid, recovery of defence cost orders and the contingency legal aid fund and answered questions from Members on issues including planned research on the Means Test proposal and the need for and timing of an Equality Impact Assessments.
The officials agreed to brief the Committee on the outcome of the research relating to a new means test as soon as it was available.
Mr Crawford briefed the Committee on remuneration for Crown Court Cases and the proposed introduction of the Graduated Fees Scheme and outlined the current position in relation to the negotiations with the Law Society and the Bar Council on Very High Cost Cases.
4.21 p.m. Ms Ní Chuilín rejoined the meeting.
4.45 p.m. Mr Maginness left the meeting.
4.47 p.m. Mr Bell left the meeting.
4.55 p.m. Mr McCartney left the meeting
The evidence session was recorded by Hansard.
The Chairman thanked the officials for the briefing and they left the meeting.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that, if the Department was in a position to produce a consultation paper on a new system, the matter could be placed on the agenda for any meeting scheduled to take place during summer recess.
9. Consideration of policy proposals for inclusion in the Justice Bill
The Committee considered a briefing paper summarising each of the key elements for possible inclusion in the Justice Bill and highlighting issues raised by Committee Members during the briefing sessions and any further information /response provided by the Department of Justice.
The Committee also considered a further briefing paper from the Department of Justice on the proposals to extend rights of audience for solicitor advocates in higher courts.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that further consideration of the key issues should take place during the Committee Stage of the Justice Bill.
10. EU Directive on Combating the Sexual Exploitation of Children – Opt In Decision
The Committee considered a letter from the Minister of Justice regarding correspondence from the Lord Chancellor seeking agreement to the UK’s opting in to the proposed EU Directive on Combating the Sexual Exploitation of Children.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Minister of Justice indicating it was supportive of the intent of the Directive and the intention to opt in.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to request further information on the proposed Directive and any likely impact issues relevant to Northern Ireland.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to request that it be kept informed of any developments/modifications in relation to the draft Directive.
11. SL1 – Proposal to make a Statutory Rule – The Police Pension (Amendment) Regulations ( Northern Ireland) 2010
The Committee considered a proposal to make a Statutory Rule to amend existing regulations which deal with police officer pensions and retirement benefits.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to reschedule the matter for the first meeting in September and request that officials attend to answer any questions that may arise.
12. Chairman’s Business
i The Committee considered a paper regarding the handling of any Freedom of Information (FOI) requests received.
Agreed: To enable governance arrangements to be met the Committee agreed to delegate authority to the Chairman and Deputy Chairman to submit, during periods of Assembly recess, views on the releasing or withholding of the information in any non-routine/contentious FoI requests received.
ii The Chairman advised Members that the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Health had indicated that legislation was required to address a legal loophole that had come to light following a recent court case involving individuals who were found unfit to plead.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Minister of Justice seeking clarification of which Department would take responsibility for the legislation and the likely timescale.
iii The Chairman advised the Committee that the Director of the Public Prosecution Service had requested a meeting with the Chairman and the Deputy Chairman to discuss the relationship between the Committee and the PPS and the Clerk would take forward the necessary arrangments.
13. Correspondence
i The Committee considered correspondence from the Department of Justice in response to its request for further information on a number of police pensions amended following appeal against injury award review decisions.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Justice expressing its concern regarding the inadequacy of the information provided.
ii The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Justice regarding the re-modelling of the Vetting and Barring scheme and the impact on AccessNI.
iii The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Justice regarding the Pyrotechnic Articles (Safety) Regulations 2010 being made by the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills.
iv The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Justice providing further information on the number and location of sex offenders permanently residing in Northern Ireland and arrangements for monitoring and tracking them.
v The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Justice regarding a proposed consultation on proposals for achieving best evidence in criminal proceedings.
vi The Committee noted the findings and recommendations of the Initial Report on the Review of Police Injury Award Arrangements.
vii The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Justice on performance figures for AccessNI.
viii The Committee noted correspondence from the Department of Justice regarding information requested on Security Funding.
ix The Committee considered correspondence from the Department of Justice regarding a draft consultation paper on Sentencing Guidelines Mechanisms.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that consideration of the draft consultation on Sentencing Guidelines Mechanisms should be scheduled into the Committee work programme in September.
x The Committee noted correspondence from the Policing Board outlining the rationale for the decision regarding the implementation date for successful police injury review appeal decisions.
xi The Committee noted correspondence from the Lord Chief Justice’s Office enclosing the report of the Sentencing Guidelines Working Group.
xii The Committee considered a report by the Criminal Justice Inspection for Northern Ireland on the deduction of avoidable delay within the Criminal Justice System in Northern Ireland.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that arrangements should be made for the Chief Inspector to attend a meeting in September to outline his key findings and recommendations and Departmental officials should also attend to outline the action being taken in response.
xiii The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister regarding the Ministerial Sub-group on Children and Young People
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Justice requesting information on the aspects of the action plans relevant to justice issues.
xiv The Committee considered a request from the Children’s Law Centre to meet the Committee to discuss issues regarding children’s rights within the Criminal Justice System.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that an informal meeting with representatives of the Children’s Law Centre should be arranged.
xv The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for the Office of First Minister and deputy First Minister regarding the United Nations Convention on the rights of a child.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Justice seeking views on the issues raised.
xvi The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister regarding the European Commission’s communication on the rights of the child.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Department of Justice seeking views on the issues raised relating to justice.
xvii The Committee noted correspondence from the Committee for the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister regarding the European 2020 Strategy and the European Commission Work Programme.
xviii The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for Health, Social Services and Public Safety seeking views on the Safeguarding Board Bill and requesting that correspondence on the matter be forwarded to the Minister of Justice.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Minister of Justice requesting information on the relevant issues.
xix The Committee considered correspondence from the Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure requesting that correspondence on Accessibility of Local Government Art be forwarded to the Department of Justice.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to forward the correspondence on Accessibility of Local Government Art to the Department of Justice.
14. Any Other Business
The Committee discussed issues for inclusion in its Autumn Forward Work Programme.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that visits to H.M. Prison Magilligan and/or Hydebank Young Offenders Centre should be included in the work programme.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that, time permitting, further consideration would be given to the consideration of Criminal Justice and Mental Health issues, possibly in conjunction with the Health Committee.
15. Date and Time of next Meeting
The next meeting will be held on Thursday 9 September 2010 at 2.00 p.m. in Parliament Buildings or on an earlier date if the Chairman decides it necessary.
5.31 p.m. The Chairman adjourned the meeting.