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TWENTY EIGHTH MEETING OF THE HIGHER AND FURTHER EDUCATION, TRAINING AND EMPLOYMENT COMMITTEE AT 1.30 PM AT EAST ANTRIM INSTITUTE ON THURSDAY 12 OCTOBER 2000 1. Apoloogies PRESENT: Dr E Birnie (Chairman) IN ATTENDANCE: Mrs E Sung, Ms A Colville, and Mr C Jones.
Joan Carson, William Hay. Members attending but leaving early: John Kelly, Roger Hutchinson (2:20pm).
2.1 Draft Minutes of Meeting on 3 October 2000 Agreed. Proposed: Mervyn Carrick. Seconded: John Dallat.
2.2 Draft Minutes of Meeting on 5 October 2000 Agreed. Proposed: Roger Hutchinson. Seconded: Joe Byrne.
3.1 Forward Work Programme Noted. The next meeting on Thursday 19th October will be in open session at Nortel and will include an evidence session from the CBI to be recorded by Hansard. Members should arrive no later than 1:45pm. Names of witnesses will be included in folders, along with a map and sample questions from Assembly Research.
Agreed. Chairman will draft a paper detailing the areas of enquiry to follow during the session.
4.1 Review of Deprivation Indicators Noted. Briefing paper from NISRA on the ongoing review of deprivation indicators for Northern Ireland, to be published in Spring 2001 was briefly discussed. There had been serious criticisms of the consultation process, especially at the lack of involvement of the community sector, during public meetings held as part of the review.
Agreed. Assembly Research will be asked to provide a paper on how TSN has been factored into funding for the current approach. Members would examine the research, before deciding whether further briefing was appropriate.
4.2 Correspondence (a) Response from Minister re PFI Agreed. Committee may wish to pursue PFI later in their Work Programme, as it has major implications for the budget in the long run. In the interim, the Department would be asked to provide as much financial information as possible to break down public and private responsibilities in the 3 major PFIs which have been undertaken so far.
(b) New Deal Noted. Composite letter on New Deal to include all issues raised so far by Members was currently being drafted, and would be forwarded for the Chairman’s agreement by the start of next week.
(c) Letter from Chairman, Finance Committee Letter from the Chairman of the Finance Committee giving his Committee’s judgement on how the budget for the Programme for Government will be handled by Committees and the Assembly, was tabled.
Noted. The Finance Committee had no direct role at present and, on this occasion, the HFETE Committee should deal directly with the DHFETE. Agreed. Chairman to write to the Chairman of the Finance Committee, requesting his permission to directly approach the Minister for Finance and Personnel.
Noted. The Committee had previously passed responsibility for consideration of the technical aspects of Statutory Rules to the Examiner of Statutory Rules, leaving the Committee to consider the broader principles. The Examiner had already considered six Statutory Rules made by DHFETE and had been satisfied with the technical aspects, apart from a misprint in SR 240 which he did not consider to be misleading. A briefing by the Assembly’s Legal Adviser on the Committee’s responsibilities had already been deferred due to the extended deliberations on Student Finance. This would be rescheduled for after the Halloween Recess. Agreed. Clerk to write to the Department asking that, in line with normal practice, the Committee is given the opportunity to consider proposals for Statutory Regulations at pre-drafting stage. Following prolonged discussion, Members decided that they had no objections to Statutory Rules 240/2000 and 261/2000, which should be forwarded to the Business Office. Members agreed that they should briefly examine the remaining 4 Statutory Rules. These would be forwarded for final discussion at the meeting on 19 October. Noted. The Committee also has to consider legislation on Part-Time Workers, which ceases to have effect if not passed, by way of confirmatory resolution of the Assembly by 1st January 2001. This was important legislation, especially for Northern Ireland given the number of part-time workers here. Agreed. The legislation would be sent to Members again for consideration. Additionally, a short paper would be prepared detailing consultations and how the legislation was handled in the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments. As the Committee would have to complete their consideration of this legislation by mid-November, a briefing from officials, along with a briefing from an advocate of the legislation (eg ICTU) should be arranged for the meeting on 9 November.
6. Student Finance (Open Session) Noted. The draft report on Student Finance, proposed by the Chairman, was brought up and read, paragraph by paragraph.
Agreed as amended. Amendments are detailed below. Page 2 – at Recommendation 5, add "the Chancellor should give consideration to tax incentives, especially to SMEs." Recommendations 6 and 7 to be amalgamated and the maximum amount of the set contribution to the NISEF (£3150) to be added. Page 3 – Recommendation 18 to be revised in the light of the Minister’s statement on 9 October in the Assembly on additional places. Page 8 – Final paragraph to be removed and inserted as the third paragraph at Page 10. Page 11 – Second paragraph – include comparison between the average family size in Northern Ireland and Great Britain. Page 13 – First paragraph – insert details of the Committee’s grant proposals. Page 16 – Figures on mature students to be included as a footnote. Page 19 – Fourth paragraph – insert: "All Members have concerns about the administration of student loans. Some Members objected to the use of debt in principle." Include footnote regarding NUS/USI concerns in respect of Islamic students. Page 22 – Delete second paragraph. Third paragraph to be reworded to address the disparity with GB. Add footnote on concerns re Foundation Degrees. Page 24 – Insert further three paragraphs as agreed. Page 28 – Second paragraph to be reworded as agreed. Agreed.
Proposed: Esmond Birnie Seconded: Monica McWilliams. The Report and its Annexes, including amendments agreed today, should be submitted for formal publication, with a provisional publication date of 20 October. Minutes of today’s meeting would be approved by the Chairman before including in the Report, along with a preface giving the Committee’s membership and Terms of Reference. The research papers already circulate to Members would be published as Volume 2 of the Committee’s Report. The Chairman would decide on whether a press launch would be beneficial and finalise a Motion for Debate to be forwarded to the Business Committee for consideration on 17 October. Chairman will write to the Minister to arrange a meeting at which he and the Deputy Chairman would give an advanced copy of the Report to the Minister.
Noted. Mrs Nelis expressed concern that Sinn Fein Committee members had been misrepresented in the local media, in that they had not "threatened" to issue a minority report. The Chairman reiterated his advice to Members to exercise restraint in interviews with the media, and to be aware of the danger of being misquoted.
Noted. Members considered the draft paper reflecting the Committee’s view on which of the Department’s proposed bids should have priority. Agreed. The paper, agreed as amended, should be forwarded to the Minister as soon as possible. The paper should be annotated to show that the bids did not currently reflect the monies needed to implement the Committee’s proposals on Student Finance.
8.1 Press Notice Noted. Press Notice issued in advance of today’s meeting was included for information.
8.2 Date of Next Meeting Thursday 19 October at 1:45 pm at Nortel. The Chairman would agree a Press Notice to be issued in advance of the meeting, which should include reference to the fact that the meeting was at Nortel at the request of the CBI. Monica McWilliams gave her apologies in advance. Noted. Forms to claim mileage for Committee meetings to be included in next week’s folders. Meeting concluded at 5:20 pm.
Esmond Birnie ESMOND BIRNIE |