ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 09 FEBRUARY 2010
ROOM 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present: Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr Declan O’Loan
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
In Attendance: Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Vincent Gribbin (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Tara McKee (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
The meeting opened at 11.08 am in public session.
1. Apologies
Mr John O’Dowd
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 2 February 2010
Members agreed the Minutes of Proceedings of the meeting held on 2 February 2010, as amended.
3. Matters arising
Members deferred discussion on the Local Government (Disqualification) (Amendment) Bill until item 7 on the agenda.
4. Chairperson’s Business
Members noted the Ministerial Statement on the Agreement at Hillsborough Castle planned for 3.30 pm and the Chairperson confirmed that he would be called on by the Speaker, as Chair of the Committee, to put a question.
5. Correspondence
Incoming correspondence
Members noted:
- A letter of thanks, dated 28 January 2010, from Sir Patrick Cormack, Chairperson of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee.
- An acknowledgement, dated 1 February 2010, from the First Minister and deputy First Minister about the Efficiency Review Panel.
11.13 am Mr O’Loan joined the meeting.
6. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters – Category Two list of issues
This session was recorded by Hansard.
6.1 The Chairperson declared the following interest:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Alex Attwood
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
Declan O’Loan
- Member of the Ballymena District Policing Partnership.
Ian Paisley Jnr
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Thirty first Revision – Consideration of the Category Two List of Issues
6.2.A Is there a need to endorse Recommendation 22 of the Committee’s original report (that the post of Attorney General should be a full time role, at least initially)?
There was some discussion on Issue A.
Agreed: Members agreed to write to the First Minister and the deputy First Minister to re-extend the invitation for them to appear before the Committee, as soon as possible, to discuss the role of the Attorney General, and other matters.
11.16 am Mr Attwood joined the meeting.
6.3.B Who might be responsible for appointments to the judiciary?
There was some discussion on Issue B.
Agreed: Members reaffirmed their earlier decision that appointments to the judiciary would continue to be dealt with through the current legislation.
6.4.C What should be the relationship between SOCA and the Security Services and the Minister/ Department/Assembly? (See also Category One List N - What needs to be done to ensure that attention is given to having appropriate measures in place to address issues such as the role of the security services?).
There was some discussion on Issue C.
Agreed: Members agreed to write to the Secretary of State to invite him to appear, urgently, before the Committee, and to request the provision of all drafts, or redrafts, of agreements, concordats, protocols and MoUs associated with the devolution of policing and justice powers, to the Committee, in advance of his attendance.
6.5.D What needs to be done to ensure the maintenance of existing North/South policing and justice agreements, and is there a requirement for a Justice Sector of the North South Ministerial Council?
There was some discussion on New Issue D.
Agreed: Members could not reach consensus on the issue of a Justice Sector of the North South Ministerial Council.
Agreed: Members agreed to write to the Secretary of State to invite him to appear, urgently, before the Committee, and to request the provision of all drafts, or redrafts, of agreements, concordats, protocols and MoUs associated with the devolution of policing and justice powers, to the Committee, in advance of his attendance.
11.21 am Mr McFarland left the meeting.
6.6.E What is the extent of the financial provisions for a department which would exercise the range of policing and justice functions? (See also Category One List Issue I - How, and when, should the financial negotiations with the NIO be conducted, and by whom? See also Category One List Issue J - Should any budget be ‘ring-fenced’?).
There was some discussion on New Issue E.
Agreed: Given the calls for the First Minister and deputy First Minister and the Secretary of State to appear before the Committee, Members agreed to seek, from them, further clarification on financial issues during the planned evidence sessions.
11.24 am Mr McFarland rejoined the meeting.
11.26 am The Chairperson left the meeting and the Deputy Chairperson assumed the chair.
6.7.F What, if any, consideration should there be of the Ashdown Report on Parading, and is there a need for further clarity of the powers to be devolved, and, if so, should they include matters relating to the Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1989, flags and symbols and recruitment to the PSNI?
There was some discussion New Issue F.
Agreed: Members could not reach consensus on this issue.
Agreed: Given the calls for the First Minister and deputy First Minister to appear before the Committee, Members agreed to seek, from them, further clarification on this issue.
11.31 am Mr Hamilton joined the meeting.
11.45 am The Chairperson rejoined the meeting and assumed the chair.
6.8.G In the context of Recommendation 26 of the Committee’s original report, to which Department should the Public Prosecution Service be attached? (See also Category One List Issue G).
There was some discussion on New Issue G.
Agreed: Members requested that the Committee Clerk prepare a briefing paper summarising the position of each party in time for consideration at the meeting on 16 February 2010.
6.9.H In the context of Recommendation 27 of the Committee’s original report, about examining the independence and accountability of the Public Prosecution Service, before, and following devolution, what consideration should be given to this matter, pre-devolution?
There was some discussion on New Issue H.
Agreed: Members considered that this issue was adequately dealt with in the Agreement at Hillsborough Castle on 5 February 2010.
6.10.I In relation to Recommendation 30 of the Committee’s original report, who should undertake the advisory role in relation to the appointment of the Police Ombudsman? (See also Category One List Issue G).
There was some discussion on New Issue I.
Agreed: Members agreed to consult their respective parties and revisit the issue at the Committee meeting on Tuesday 16 February 2010.
6.11.J What procedures and protocols will there need to be between the Minister, an Assembly Committee and any newly established department and its associated agencies? (Additional question introduced to Category Two List, following a decision, on 25 November, to re-locate it from Category One List Issue O).
There was some discussion on New Issue J.
Agreed: Members reaffirmed their earlier decision that the procedures and protocols between the Minister, an Assembly Committee and any newly established department and its associated agencies should be the same as those which currently exist for other Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive.
6.12.K What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee; and would the Minister be required to bring significant, or controversial, matters to the Executive Committee?
There was some discussion on New Issue K.
Agreed: Members considered that this issue was adequately dealt with in the Agreement at Hillsborough Castle on 5 February 2010.
12.00 pm Mr O’Loan left the meeting.
7. Forward Work Programme
Members discussed the Committee’s Forward Work Programme.
Agreed: Members agreed to seek to publish a report on the devolution of policing and justice matters in the week commencing 1 March 2010 and, in order to expedite matters, it may have to schedule additional meetings in order to complete its report on the devolution of policing and justice matters.
Agreed: Members further agreed to discuss the Local Government (Disqualification) (Amendment) Bill prior to 9 March, 2010.
12.06 pm Mr Kennedy rejoined the meeting.
8. Any other business
There was no other business.
9. Date, time and place of next meeting
The Committee agreed that the next meeting would take place on Thursday, 18 February 2010 at 9.30 am, in the Senate Chamber.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.12 pm.