ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 12 MAY 2009
ROOM 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr John O’Dowd
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
In Attendance:
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Tara McKee (Clerical Supervisor)
Mr Christopher McNickle (Clerical Officer)
Mr Tim Moore (Senior Researcher)
Ms Ruth Barry (Researcher)
Apologies:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Danny Kennedy
The meeting opened at 11.04am in closed session.
1. Apologies
Apologies are detailed above.
2. Chairperson’s business
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Chairperson should write to the organisations currently providing the range of policing and justice services in Northern Ireland, to invite them to verify the financial information provided in the earlier written, and oral, evidence.
11.07am Mr Maskey joined the meeting .
3. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 5 May 2009
Members agreed the Minutes of Proceedings of the meeting held on 5 May 2009.
4. Matters arising
Members noted a response from the Secretary of State, to the Committee’s letter of 27 th April 2009, in relation to Memoranda of Understanding and Protocols, the Ashdown Report, visits to other legislatures, and financial matters.
Agreed: Members agreed to forward a copy of the Secretary of State’s response to the Specialist Adviser, for comments.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Chairperson should write to the Secretary of State to request details of the indicative contents of the Justice Agreement, and to enquire about who was involved in developing the Memoranda of Understanding, Protocols, and ‘letters between the two Governments’.
5. Correspondence
Members noted a letter to the Director of Clerking and Reporting, following his presentation to the Committee on 5 May 2009.
Members noted a letter to the Secretary of State in relation to Memoranda of Understanding and Protocols.
Members noted a memo from the Clerk of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, relating to the financial implications of devolving policing and justice matters.
6. Visits to other legislatures
The Clerk updated Members on the progress of arrangements for the Committee’s proposed visits to other legislatures.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to proceed with a visit to Dublin on 10 and 11 June 2009, and visits to London and Edinburgh on 16, 17 and 18 June 2009.
7. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
7.1 Research Paper – The Attorney General for Northern Ireland
The Deputy Chairperson welcomed Tim Moore and Ruth Barry, Assembly Research Services, and invited them to brief the Committee on a research paper on the Attorney General for Northern Ireland.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to request a further research paper on the comparative roles, remits and relationships of the Attorney General in England, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland.
The Deputy Chairperson thanked Mr Moore and Ms Barry for the presentation.
11.45am Tim Moore and Ruth Barry left the meeting.
7.2 Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Tenth Revision – Consideration of the Category Two List of Issues
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, Members declared the following interests:
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Board
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 2 List.
7.2.C What should be the relationship between SOCA and the Security Services and the Minister/ Department/Assembly? (See also Category One List N - What needs to be done to ensure that attention is given to having appropriate measures in place to address issues such as the role of the security services?)
There was some discussion on Issue C.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue following an update from the Secretary of State, on the various Memoranda of Understanding and Protocols.
7.2.D What needs to be done to ensure the maintenance of existing North/South policing and justice agreements, and is there a requirement for a Justice Sector of the North/South Ministerial Council?
There was some discussion on Issue D.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to revisit the issue following consideration of the response from the Secretary of State in relation to any North/ South justice arrangements which may be in place, at the point of devolution.
7.2.E What is the extent of the financial provisions for a department which would exercise the range of policing and justice functions? (See also Category One List Issue I - How, and when, should the financial negotiations with the NIO be conducted, and by whom?
There was some discussion on Issue E.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue again following a further presentation by the Specialist Adviser.
7.2.F What, if any, consideration should there be of the Ashdown Report on Parading, and is there a need for further clarities of the powers to be devolved, and, if so, should they include matters relating to the Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1989, flags and symbols and recruitment to the PSNI?
There was some discussion on Issue F.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue following an update on when the Ashdown Report might be published.
7.2.G In the context of Recommendation 26 of the Committee’s original report, to which Department should the Public Prosecution Service be attached? (See also Category One List Issue G)
There was some discussion on Issue G.
Agreed: Members agreed to consider the issue further, following visits to other legislatures.
7.2.H In the context of Recommendation 27 of the Committee’s original report, about examining the independence and accountability of the Public Prosecution Service, before, and following devolution, what consideration should be given to this matter, pre-devolution?
There was some discussion on Issue H.
Agreed: Members agreed to include Issue H as a substantive item for discussion at the Committee meeting on 19 May 2009.
7.2.I In relation to Recommendation 30 of the Committee’s original report, who should undertake the advisory role in relation to the appointment of the Police Ombudsman? (See also Category One List Issue G)
There was some discussion on Issue I.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
7.2.J What procedures and protocols will there need to be between the Minister, an Assembly Committee and any newly established department and its associated agencies? (Additional question introduced to Category Two List, following a decision, on 25 November, to re-locate it from Category One List Issue O)
There was some discussion on Issue J.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue at a future meeting, and following visits to other legislatures.
7.2.K What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee; and would the Minister be required to bring significant, or controversial, matters to the Executive Committee?
There was some discussion on Issue K.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
8. Any other business
12.04pm Mr Paisley Jnr joined the meeting.
There was some discussion on the programme of future meetings and when the Committee might publish its next report.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Chairperson should write to the First and deputy First Minister, and the Minister of Finance and Personnel to suggest that 9 June 2009 might be a suitable date for a presentation by the Specialist Adviser, in closed session.
9. Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 19 May 2009 at 11.00am, in Room 135, Parliament Buildings.
The Deputy Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.07 pm.
Mr Raymond McCartney
Deputy Chairperson, Assembly and Executive Review Committee
19th May 2009.