ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 28 APRIL 2009
ROOM 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr John O’Dowd
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
In Attendance:
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Tara McKee (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
Mr Victor Hewitt (Specialist Adviser)
Apologies:
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Alex Maskey
The meeting opened at11.06am in closed session.
1. Apologies
Apologies are detailed above.
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 21 April 2009
Members agreed the Minutes of Proceedings of the meeting held on 21 April 2009.
11.08am Mr Attwood joined the meeting
3. Matters arising
3.1 Attorney General
The Chairperson advised Members that a research paper on the respective roles of the Attorney General and/or Advocate General in other legislatures, and their relationships with the relevant Scrutiny Committees, had been commissioned.
11.12am Mrs Hanna and Mr McFarland joined the meeting
4. Presentation by the Specialist Adviser
The session was recorded by Hansard
11.14am Mr Hewitt joined the meeting
The Chairperson welcomed Mr Hewitt to the meeting and invited him to brief the Committee on the budgetary pressures of devolving policing and justice matters as represented in his draft report.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
The Chairperson thanked the Specialist Adviser for the briefing.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the Specialist Adviser should do further work on the draft report.
Agreed: Members agreed, as a first step, to reflect on the draft paper by the Specialist Adviser within their respective political parties. The Committee further agreed to consider a revised draft report at a future meeting of the Committee, in closed session.
Agreed: Members agreed, as a second step, to advise the First Minister and deputy First Minister, and the Minister for Finance and Personnel, of how it planned to proceed with its consideration of the draft report and to invite the First Minister and deputy First Minister, and the Finance Minister, to attend a future meeting of the Committee, in closed session, at which the Specialist Adviser would make a presentation on his revised draft report.
12.01pm Mr Hewitt left the meeting
12.03pm The meeting opened in public session
12.03pm Mr McCartney, Mr Hamilton and Mr Paisley Jnr left the meeting
5. Correspondence
5.1 Members noted a letter to the First Minister and deputy First Minister in relation to the Efficiency Review Panel.
5.2 Members noted a response to the leader of the Progressive Unionist Party, in relation to Multiple Mandates.
5.3 Members noted a letter to the Secretary of State in relation to Memoranda of Understanding and Protocols; the Ashdown Report; visits to other legislatures; and financial issues.
5.4 Visits to other legislatures
Agreed: The Committee agreed to write to the Minister for Justice, the Chairperson of the Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights Committee, and the Garda Commissioner in relation to a possible visit in late May, or early to mid June 2009.
12.05pm Mr McCartney and Mr Hamilton rejoined the meeting
6. Devolution of Policing and Justice
6.1 Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Eighth Revision – Consideration of the Category Two List of Issues
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, Members declared the following interests:
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Board
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 2 List.
7.2.C What should be the relationship between SOCA and the Security Services and the Minister/ Department/Assembly? (See also Category One List N - What needs to be done to ensure that attention is given to having appropriate measures in place to address issues such as the role of the security services?)
There was some discussion on Issue C.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue following an update from the Secretary of State, on the various Memoranda of Understanding and Protocols.
7.2.D What needs to be done to ensure the maintenance of existing North/South policing and justice agreements, and is there a requirement for a Justice Sector of the North/South Ministerial Council?
There was some discussion on Issue D.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to revisit the issue following a response from the Secretary of State in relation to any North/ South justice arrangements which may be in place, at the point of devolution.
7.2.E What is the extent of the financial provisions for a department which would exercise the range of policing and justice functions? (See also Category One List Issue I - How, and when, should the financial negotiations with the NIO be conducted, and by whom?
There was some discussion on Issue E.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue again following a further presentation by the Specialist Adviser.
7.2.F What, if any, consideration should there be of the Ashdown Report on Parading, and is there a need for further clarities of the powers to be devolved, and, if so, should they include matters relating to the Public Processions (Northern Ireland) Act 1989, flags and symbols and recruitment to the PSNI?
There was some discussion on Issue F.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue following an update from the Secretary of State on when the Ashdown Report might be published.
7.2.G In the context of Recommendation 26 of the Committee’s original report, to which Department should the Public Prosecution Service be attached? (See also Category One List Issue G)
There was some discussion on Issue G.
Agreed: Members agreed to consider the issue further, following visits to other legislatures.
7.2.H In the context of Recommendation 27 of the Committee’s original report, about examining the independence and accountability of the Public Prosecution Service, before, and following devolution, what consideration should be given to this matter, pre-devolution?
There was some discussion on Issue H.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
7.2.I In relation to Recommendation 30 of the Committee’s original report, who should undertake the advisory role in relation to the appointment of the Police Ombudsman? (See also Category One List Issue G)
There was some discussion on Issue I.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
7.2.J What procedures and protocols will there need to be between the Minister, an Assembly Committee and any newly established department and its associated agencies? (Additional question introduced to Category Two List, following a decision, on 25 November, to re-locate it from Category One List Issue O)
There was some discussion on Issue J.
Agreed: Members agreed to revisit the issue at a future meeting, and following visits to other legislatures.
7.2.K What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee; and would the Minister be required to bring significant, or controversial, matters to the Executive Committee?
There was some discussion on Issue K.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
12.27pm Mrs Hanna left the meeting
8. Forward Work Programme
Members considered a briefing paper by the Committee Clerk.
Agreed: Members agreed to concentrate, exclusively, in the meantime, on matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice matters.
9. Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11.00am, in Room 21, Parliament Buildings, initially in closed session.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.40 pm.
Mr Jimmy Spratt
Chairperson, Assembly and Executive Review Committee
5 th May 2009.