ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 27 JANUARY 2009
ROOM 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr John O’Dowd
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
In Attendance:
Mrs Nuala Dunwoody (Clerk Assistant)
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Lynn Gray (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
Mr Victor Hewitt (Specialist Adviser)
Apologies:
Mr Danny Kennedy
The meeting opened at 11.06am in public session.
1. Apologies
Apologies are detailed above.
2. Chairperson’s Business
Members noted a consultation document by the Northern Ireland Court Service on proposals for court hearing centres at Bangor, Larne, Limavady, Magherafelt and Strabane.
Agreed: Members agreed that the document should be drawn to the attention of the Specialist Adviser.
3. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 13 January 2009
Members agreed the Minutes of Proceedings of the meeting held on 13 January 2009, as amended.
11.11a.m Mr O’Dowd joined the meeting .
4. Matters arising
Members noted that the Chairperson had participated in the debate, in plenary, on Monday 19 January 2009 in relation to reducing the number of government departments.
5. Correspondence
5.1 The Chairperson advised Members of correspondence from the Northern Ireland Policing Board; the Northern Ireland Court Service; and An Garda Siochana, which acknowledged receipt of the Committee’s report
5.2 Members noted a letter from the Chairperson to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, reminding them of the standing invitation for them to appear before the Committee during its consideration of the Category Two List of Issues.
5.3 Members noted letters which re-extended ‘observer status’ to those parties represented in the Assembly but not, presently, represented on the Committee, when the devolution of policing and justice is under consideration.
5.4 Members noted correspondence regarding a forthcoming visit by a delegation of senior figures from the Bosnia and Herzegovina judiciary to Parliament Buildings, and which invited Members to attend a meeting with the delegates at 2pm on Wednesday 4 February 2009.
Agreed: The Clerk was asked to ascertain if the planned session was exclusively to discuss the work of the Committee.
5.5 Members noted correspondence to the Secretary of State, and to those organisations currently providing the range of policing and justice services in Northern Ireland, requesting financial information.
5.6 A letter from the Northern Ireland Court Service was tabled for the attention of Members.
Agreed: Members agreed to deal with the letter during its consideration of the Category Two List of Issues.
11.17am Mr Hamilton left the meeting .
6.Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Partnership
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
Ian Paisley Jnr
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
11.17am Mr Hamilton rejoined the meeting .
6.1 Briefing Paper 23/08/09 – Specialist Adviser
Members noted a Committee briefing paper on the proposed work plan of the Specialist Adviser.
11.20am Mr Hewitt joined the meeting.
The Chairperson welcomed the Specialist Adviser, Mr Victor Hewitt, to the meeting, and invited him to brief the Committee.
The Specialist Adviser briefed the Committee on:
- His role as a Specialist Adviser to the Committee;
- His initial assessment of the financial implications of devolving policing and justice into the Northern Ireland public expenditure block in the context of the Barnett Formula; and
- the impact of proposed efficiency cuts.
This was followed by a question and answer session.
Agreed: Members agreed that all correspondence relating to the financial implications of devolving policing and justice should be sent to the Specialist Adviser as a matter of course.
11.26am Mr Hamilton left the meeting .
11.29am Mrs Hanna joined the meeting .
There was further discussion with the Specialist Adviser.
The Chairman thanked the Specialist Adviser for his presentation to the Committee.
11.37am Mr Hewitt left the meeting.
11.37am Mr McCartney left the meeting .
11.38am Mrs Hanna left the meeting .
6.2 Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Fifth Revision – Initial Consideration of the Category Two List of Issues
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 2 List.
6.2 A. Is there a need to endorse Recommendation 22 of the Committee’s original report (that the post of Attorney General should be a full time role, at least initially)?
There was some discussion on Issue A.
Agreed: Members agreed the post of Attorney General should be a full time post, at least initially.
11.39am Mr McCartney rejoined the meeting.
6.2 B. Who might be responsible for appointments to the judiciary?
There was some discussion on Issue B.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
6.2 C. What should be the relationship between SOCA and the Security Services and the Minister/Department/Assembly?
There was some discussion on Issue C.
11.47am Mr Hamilton rejoined the meeting.
11.51am Mr Attwood joined the meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
6.2 D. What needs to be done to ensure the maintenance of existing North/South policing and justice arrangements?
There was some discussion on Issue D.
Agreed: Members agreed that Issue D should be merged with Issue E.
6.2 E. Is there a requirement for a Justice Sector of the North South Ministerial Council?
There was some discussion on Issues D and E.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed, in principle, to invite the NIO to give oral evidence on a range of memoranda of understanding and protocols in late February 2009.
Agreed: Members agreed that the NIO should provide information on a range of memoranda of understanding and protocols in advance of the proposed oral evidence session.
Agreed: The Clerk was asked to explore the possibility of officials from the Department of Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights giving oral evidence to the Committee.
6.2 F. What is the extent of the financial provisions for a department which would exercise the range of policing and justice functions?
There was some discussion on Issue F.
Agreed: Members agreed to return the issue once all written responses were received from the Secretary of State and those organisations currently providing the range of policing and justice services in Northern Ireland, and the Specialist Adviser had made a further presentation to the Committee.
6.2.G What, if any, consideration should there be of the Ashdown Report on Parading?
There was some discussion on Issue G.
Agreed: Members agreed that Issue G should be merged with Issue L.
12.12pm Mr Hamilton left the meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Chairperson should write to Lord Ashdown, seeking an indication on when his report was likely to be published.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk should write to the Chief Constable of the PSNI, seeking an estimate on the costs of ‘policing’ parading in Northern Ireland in the last five years, up to 2007/2008.
6.2.H In the context of Recommendation 26 of the Committee’s original report, to which Department should the Public Prosecution Service be attached?
There was some discussion on Issue H.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
6.2.I In the context of Recommendation 27 of the Committee’s original report, about examining the independence and accountability of the Public Prosecution Service, before, and following devolution, what consideration should be given to this matter, pre-devolution?
There was some discussion on Issue I.
Agreed: Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed to address Issues J, K and M at the next meeting of the Committee.
11. Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 11.00am in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.38pm.