ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 9 DECEMBER 2008
ROOM 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr John O’Dowd
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
In Attendance:
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Lynn Gray (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
Apologies: None
The meeting opened at 11.05am in public session.
1. Apologies
There were no apologies.
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 2 December 2008
Agreed: The Committee agreed the minutes of the meeting held on 2 December 2008.
3. Matters arising
3.1 The Chairperson advised Members that a Committee Briefing Paper on the appointment of a Specialist Adviser would be dealt with as a substantive item during the detailed consideration of matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice.
3.2 Members noted correspondence from the Chairperson to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, which re-iterated the Committee’s desire to have clarity on the issues raised in previous letters on the 19 and 24 November, 2008 respectively.
On a proposal from Mr Attwood, that the Committee should express its dissatisfaction at the failure of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to respond to the letters of the 19 and 24 November, respectively, and to the further reminder of 3 December 2008:
Question put: That the Committee should express its dissatisfaction at the failure of the First Minister and deputy First Minister to respond to the letters of the 19 and 24 November, 2008 respectively, and to the further reminder of 3 December, 2008.
The Committee divided, Ayes 4; Noes 7.
Ayes |
Noes |
Alex Attwood Carmel Hanna Danny Kennedy Alan McFarland |
Jimmy Spratt RaymondMcCartney Simon Hamilton Nelson McCausland Alex Maskey John O’Dowd Ian Paisley Jnr |
The proposal accordingly fell.
There was some discussion on the subject of calling the First Minister and deputy First Minister to reply to Committee correspondence of 19 and 24 November 2008, and the further reminder of 3 December 2008.
3.3 Members also noted that the Chairperson had written, again, to request a reply from the Secretary of State on the issues raised in previous correspondence on 20 November and 3 December, 2008 respectively.
4. Correspondence
Members noted the response from the Secretary of State, dated 3 December 2008, which was tabled for the attention of Members.
Agreed: Members agreed to deal with the letter as part of the substantive discussions and consideration of matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice.
5. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Partnership
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
Ian Paisley Jnr
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
5.1 Members considered the response from the Secretary of State and there was some discussion.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Chairperson should write to the Secretary of State to:
- indicate that the Committee did not wish to create a parallel process on finance, but that it intended to involve itself in the detailed consideration of adequate funding for policing and justice;
- request that all drafts on memoranda of understanding and protocols, which were to be provided to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, should be shared, simultaneously, to the Committee;
- advise of the possibility of the Committee calling NIO officials to give oral evidence before the Committee.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk refer the question of a possible role for the Committee for Finance and Personnel to that Committee.
Agreed: Members agreed to hold an additional meeting on 15 December 2008 at 10.00am.
5.2 Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Third Revision
Agreed: The Committee agreed to take the views of each party, in turn, on the unresolved issues in the Category One List of Issues, as represented in the Committee Briefing Paper - 11/08/09 (Third Revision).
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 1 List.
5.2.C What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee; and would the Minister be required to bring significant, or controversial, matters to the Executive Committee?
Agreed: Members agreed the revised wording of Issue C.
There was some discussion on Issue C.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit Issue C at a Committee meeting at 10am on Monday 15 December 2008.
5.2.E What would be the arrangements for appointing, removing and/or replacing a Minister?
Question put: That the arrangements for removing and/or replacing a Minister would be by cross community vote?
The Committee divided, Ayes 6; Noes 4.
Ayes |
Noes |
Jimmy Spratt Raymond McCartney Simon Hamilton Nelson McCausland Alex Maskey John O’Dowd |
Alex Attwood Carmel Hanna Danny Kennedy Alan McFarland |
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the arrangements for removing a Minister would be by cross community vote.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that the arrangements for replacing a Minister would be by cross community vote.
The Committee acknowledged that there were other circumstances by which a vacancy might arise including, for example, if the Minister were to resign or (in relation to Issue D) the Minister did not stand, or failed to be elected, in the Assembly elections scheduled for 2011.
5.2.G What would be the structure of the Policing and Justice Department, and what functions should be placed there and/or OFMDFM?
There was some discussion on Issue G and recommendation 24 of the Committee’s original report.
Agreed: Members agreed that relevant submissions and oral evidence, from the original report, and relating to the Public Prosecution Service should be provided to Members.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit Issue G at a Committee meeting at 10am on Monday 15 December 2008.
5.2.H What arrangements need to be in place to ensure that Members of the Statutory Committee for any new department should not sit, simultaneously, on the Policing Board or any District Policing Partnership, at the point of devolution?
Members noted the terms of a Committee Briefing Paper which contained legal advice on the options for giving effect to recommendation 28 of the Committee’s original report and there was some discussion on Issue H.
Agreed: Members agreed that, in the meantime, there should be a convention which would be respected by the political parties, and the matter should be referred, formally, to the Committee on Procedures for the purposes of providing ‘certainty’ through Standing Orders.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Clerk should write to the Clerk of the Committee on Procedures, to give an indication of this Committee’s intentions.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit Issue H at a Committee meeting at 10am on Monday 15 December 2008.
Agreed: Members agreed to consider an initial draft report, in closed session, at 2.00pm on Monday 15 December, 2008.
5.3 Committee Briefing Paper 14/08/09 (Revised)
Committee Briefing Paper 14/08/09 (Revised), on the appointment of a Specialist Adviser, was tabled for the attention of Members.
Agreed: Members agreed the Terms of Reference for the appointment of a Specialist Adviser.
Agreed: Members agreed to form a Sub-Committee to handle the processes relating to the appointment of a Specialist Adviser.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Sub-Committee would consist of Mr Spratt; Mr McCartney; Mr Attwood; and Mr McFarland.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Sub-Committee would analyse any applications received, and bring a recommendation to the Committee in due course.
6. Committee Briefing Paper 15/08/09 – Forward Work Programme
Members considered a Committee Briefing Paper, which contained a draft Forward Work Programme.
Agreed: Members agreed the proposed Forward Work Programme.
7. Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Monday, 15 th December 2008 at 10.00am in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.37pm.