ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 21 OCTOBER 2008
Room 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr John O’Dowd
Mrs Dawn Purvis – at the invitation of the Committee.
In Attendance:
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Miss Aoibhinn Treanor (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Carla Campbell (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Lynn Gray (Clerical Supervisor)
Mrs Fiona O’Connell (Researcher)
Apologies:
Mrs Carmel Hanna
The meeting opened at 11.07am in public session.
Agreed: Members agreed to suspend the meeting for approximately thirty minutes at 1pm.
1. Apologies
Apologies are detailed above.
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 14 October 2008
Agreed: The Committee agreed, as amended, the minutes of the meeting held on 14 October 2008.
3. Matters arising
3.1 Standing Committees
Agreed: Members agreed that the Chairperson should write to all Party Whips regarding representation on the Assembly’s Standing Committees.
3.2 Dual Mandates
Members noted that the Minister for the Environment had not yet responded to the request for a meeting to discuss legal advice relating to ending dual mandates.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Chairperson should speak to the Minister of the Environment with a view to getting agreement to an early meeting.
3.3 Efficiency Review Panel
Members noted that OFMdFM had not yet responded to the request for a meeting with the First Minister and deputy First Minister about the Efficiency Review Panel.
3.4 Invitation to the First Minister and deputy First Minister
Members noted further correspondence from the Chairperson to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, inviting them to appear before the Committee to provide clarity on matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice and there was some discussion.
Mr. Attwood proposed
That, under the terms of Standing Order 59 (2)(a), the Committee considers exercising its formal powers under Section 44 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
The Committee divided, Ayes 3; Noes 7.
Ayes |
Noes |
Alex Attwood |
Jimmy Spratt |
The motion fell.
11.24am Mr Attwood left the meeting.
3.5 Correspondence from the Alliance Party
Members noted a letter, tabled, from the Leader of the Alliance Party in relation to the Committee’s offer of ‘observer status.’
Agreed: Members agreed that a response to Mr Ford’s letter was not necessary.
3.6 Letter to Mr James Allister, QC, MEP
Members noted a letter, tabled, from the Clerk to Mr James H Allister, QC, MEP, in relation to the Committee’s Inquiry/Report.
4. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
11.45 am Mrs Purvis joined the meeting.
The Chairperson welcomed Dawn Purvis to the meeting.
In relation to the matter of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:
-
Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Policing Board
Ian Paisley Jnr
- Member of the Policing Board
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Partnership
4.1 Forward Work Programme
Members considered, but were unable to agree, a draft forward work programme.
Agreed: Members requested the Clerk draft an alternative work programme for consideration, to include proposals for meetings of the Committee on Mondays and Tuesdays.
Members agreed to a request to have television coverage of ongoing business in the Chamber broadcast during the Committee meeting.
11.52am Mr Hamilton and Mr Kennedy left the meeting.
4.2 Research Paper
Members noted a supplementary briefing paper from Research Services on the recommendations of Criminal Justice Inspection Northern Ireland.
11.54 am Mr Attwood rejoined the meeting.
4.3 Issues to be resolved within the Committee, pre-devolution
Members noted a list of issues to be resolved within the Committee, pre-devolution, as represented in Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09.
Agreed: Members agreed, generally, to allow up to twenty minutes discussion time, initially, on each issue on the Category 1 List.
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 1 List.
4.3.A On the basis that there should be a single Department with a single Minister, what would be the method for election/appointment of the Minister?
Agreed: There was some discussion and Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
Agreed: The Committee agreed to provide Mrs Purvis and representatives of all the political parties in the Assembly, but not represented on the Committee, with a copy of the letter of the 28 th July 2008 from the First Minister and deputy First Minister.
12.31pm Mrs Purvis left the meeting.
12.32pm Mr Hamilton rejoined the meeting.
12.33pm Mr McCausland and Mr Paisley Jnr left the meeting.
4.3.B Will the Policing and Justice Department be additional to the existing eleven Departments?
Agreed: There was some discussion and Members agreed that the Policing and Justice Department should be additional to the existing eleven Departments.
12.37pm Mr McCausland rejoined the meeting.
4.3.C What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee?
Agreed: There was some discussion and Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
4.3.D Would the appointment of a Minister be an interim arrangement until the next Assembly election?
Agreed: There was some discussion and Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
4.3.E What would be the arrangements for removing, and/or replacing, a Minister once appointed?
Agreed: There was some discussion and Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
12.49pm Mr Hamilton left the meeting.
4.3.F What would be the name of the Department?
Agreed: There was some discussion and Members agreed to return to the issue at a future meeting.
4.3.G What would be the Structure of the Policing and Justice Department, and what functions would be placed there, and/or OFMdFM?
Agreed: Members agreed to defer discussions on this issue until after lunch.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.52pm.
The Chairperson resumed the meeting at 1.43pm with the following Members present:
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr John O’Dowd
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
4.4 Resumption of discussions on the Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
On resumption there was a general discussion on the differing interpretations of the second paragraph of the letter of 28 July 2008 from the First Minister and deputy First Minister and which had been the subject of discussion at 4.3.A, above.
Mr. McCausland proposed
That the Committee should now adjourn and resume consideration of matters relating to the devolution of policing and justice on 4 November 2008, provided that, by then, the DUP and Sinn Féin had clarified, to the Committee, what the correct interpretation of the first sentence of the second paragraph of the letter of 28 July 2008 from the First Minister and deputy First Minister should be.
The Committee divided, Ayes 6; Noes 3.
Ayes |
Noes |
Jimmy Spratt Simon Hamilton Danny Kennedy Nelson McCausland Alan McFarland Ian Paisley Jnr |
Raymond McCartney Alex Attwood John O’Dowd |
The motion passed.
5. Date, time and place of next meeting
Subject to the provision of the clarity referred to at 4.4 above, the next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 4 th November 2008 at 11.00am in Room 144, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 1.59pm.