COMMITTEE FOR FINANCE AND PERSONNEL
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
NINETY EIGHTH MEETING
TUESDAY, 2 JULY 2002
COMMITTEE ROOM 144, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Roy Beggs (Deputy Chairman)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Billy Bell
Mr Seamus Close
Mr Derek Hussey
Mr Roger Hutchinson
Ms Patricia Lewsley
Mr Maurice Morrow
In attendance:
Mr Alan Patterson (Principal Clerk)
Ms Sheila McClelland (Clerk)
Mr Joe Sloan (Assistant Clerk)
Ms Shauna McDaid (Executive Support)
Mr Jonathan Briggs (Administrative Support)
The Chairman declared the meeting open at 2.22 p.m.
1. Apologies.
1.1 Mr Francie Molloy, Mr Peter Weir.
2. Minutes of Proceedings.
2.1 The Committee considered the Minutes of Proceedings for 25 June 2002.
Resolved: The Committee agreed the Minutes of Proceedings of 25 June 2002.
3. Matters arising.
3.1 The Committee noted its letter to the Minister of Finance and Personnel regarding Economic Appraisals for bids under the Executive Programme Funds for Infrastructure and the Reform and Reinvestment Initiative.
3.2 The Committee noted its letter to the Junior Ministers regarding the Review of the Northern Ireland Economic Council and the provision of economic advice and research.
3.3 The Committee noted its letter to the Minister of Finance and Personnel regarding his Department's bids in the June Monitoring Round.
3.4 The Committee noted the Chairman's speaking note in relation to the Committee's consideration of the Births, Deaths and Marriages Fees Order.
3.5 The Committee noted the list of respondents to the Family Law (Divorce) Bill provided by the Department.
3.6 The Committee considered a draft response to the Clerk of the Committee for Agriculture and Rural Development in relation to the delays in Land Registers and its impact on the agricultural industry.
Resolved: The Committee agreed the draft response.
3.7 The Committee noted the invitations issued to organisations to respond to public consultation on the Marriage Bill.
3.8 The Committee noted its letter to the Department in relation to the Human Rights Commission's Bill of Rights.
Mr Hussey attended the meeting at 2.26 p.m.
4. Executive Programme Funds for Infrastructure and Reform and Reinvestment Initiative.
4.1 The Minister of Finance and Personnel and Departmental officials, Dr Andrew Mc Cormick and Mr Richard Pengelly, attended the meeting and briefed the Committee on the allocations made by the Executive Committee from the Executive Programme Funds for Infrastructure and the Reform and Reinvestment Initiative package for capital projects.
Mr Bell attended the meeting at 2.43 p.m.
4.2 The Minister discussed some of the details of the package of 29 projects involving allocations of £270m in the 2002/03 and 2003/04 financial years and a total allocation of £510m. The Minister described this as the first tranche of a strategic investment plan in which the Strategic Investment Body would be a key institution providing advice to the Executive on future projects to be taken forward, and the best source of finance for doing so.
4.3 The Minister advised the Committee that some of the projects announced, including the gas pipelines and university research, would attract a proportion of funding from the private sector.
4.4 The Minister informed the Committee that the Executive was cognisant of the need for reform alongside reinvestment through the resource packages announced. He also advised the Committee that his officials will engage with Committees on economic appraisals for the projects and that value for money was a key consideration.
5. Executive Programme Funds for Children
5.1 The Minister of Finance and Personnel and Departmental officials, Dr Andrew Mc Cormick and Mr Richard Pengelly, also briefed the Committee on the allocations to the Statutory organisations from the Executive Programme Fund for Children.
5.2 The Minister told the Committee that 14 projects had been supported from the 20 submitted and that Departments had been asked to carry out some reworking of the bids for the six projects to which resources had not been allocated. If the bids from Departments failed to meet the criteria for the Fund, the remaining resources could be transferred to the Voluntary sector's allocation. Similarly, if bids from the Voluntary sector did not meet the criteria, their resources could be returned to the amounts available to the Statutory bodies.
6. Financial Year 2002/03 - June Monitoring
6.1 The Minister and his Departmental officials, Dr Andrew Mc Cormick and Mr Richard Pengelly, briefed the Committee on the Minister's statement to the Assembly on the Executive's June Monitoring position. The Minister also provided an additional paper on the analysis of the underspend of £64.8m on capital projects.
Mr Attwood attended the meeting at 3.09 p.m.
6.2 The Minister discussed the reasons for the underspends by Departments, including the amount presented by unspent resources for programmes and projects straddling financial years. The Minister also highlighted the prudence exercised by the Executive Committee in carrying forward resources ring fenced by the 2001 Budget for the 2002/03 financial year, the unallocated Executive Programme Funds and the Reform and Reinvestment Initiative as End Year Flexibility. These resources were available to the Executive and have been allocated in the 2002/03 financial year.
6.3 The Minister provided comparative analysis of available data on underspends from other UK Legislatures. Early, but unofficial, analysis by Treasury is that the Northern Ireland Executive's underspend is marginally on the high side of average but well below some, in percentage and absolute terms. The underspend is 6.1% of the total Departmental Expenditure Limit but if the Treasury repayment and planned carry over was removed that equates to 5% against Scotland's 4%.
6.4 The Minister advised the Committee of his intention to carry out a review of underspends and the use of End Year Flexibility. He intended to present his prognosis and recommendations to the Assembly in the Autumn. The Minister discussed the Executive's need to target resources to its strategic aims while remaining flexible enough to be able to respond to unforeseen needs. The Executive needed to avoid the dangers of creating an environment which had Departments trying to spend all their resources in year to avoid underspends because this would see a loss in value for money.
6.5 The Minister answered questions and advised the Committee that there had been further delays in the presentation of Needs and Effectiveness Evaluations to the Executive and subsequently the Assembly Committees. The presentations were expected over the Summer.
6.6 The Minister told the Committee that the Executive had inherited spending trends but that Needs and Effectiveness Evaluations would contribute to reform of the budgetary process and lead to improved management. The Minister invited feedback from the Committee on ways to improve the management of resources.
Mr Morrow and Mr Attwood left the meeting at 3.56 p.m.
7. Audit and Accountability Bill
7.1 Departmental officials, Mr Leo O'Reilly, Mr Mark Mc Naughten and Mrs Claire Archbold attended the Committee to brief it on the consultation undertaken on options for change to existing public sector audit arrangements.
7.2 The officials described the further work to be carried out on the conclusions of the consultation exercise and the legislative proposals and gave details of a timetable leading to legislative passage. The Bill will be sent in draft to the Committee by the end of August and is planned for introduction on September 2002.
8. Executive's Position Report
8.1 The Committee considered a draft response to section 4 of the Executive's Position Report.
Resolved: The Committee agreed the draft response subject to an amendment provided.
8.2 The Committee considered a draft response to section 3 of the Executive's Position Report.
Resolved: The Committee agreed the draft response subject to the amendments provided.
8.3 The Committee considered the questions in section 2 of the Executive's Position Report.
Resolved: The Committee agreed that the Clerk should draft a response taking account of a report by the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action on New Targeting Social Need.
9. Inquiry - European Structural Funds and Community Initiatives.
9.1 The Committee considered guidance from the Principal Clerk on proposals for a visit to the European Parliament in Brussels to take evidence in its Inquiry.
Resolved: The Committee agreed that a visit during 7th to 9th October 2002 should be arranged.
10. Correspondence.
10.1 The Committee noted the Belfast Telegraph press article on Targeting Social Need and the Report by the Northern Ireland Council for Voluntary Action on New Targeting Social Need.
10.2 The Committee noted the Belfast Telegraph press article on the availability and content of Assembly Committees' Minutes of Proceedings.
11. Statutory Rules
11.1 The Committee considered the Statutory Rule for the Ground Rents Multiplier.
Resolved: The Committee was content to approve the Ground Rents (Multiplier) Order 2002 subject to a positive report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules.
11.2 The Committee considered the Statutory Rule for the Land Registration Amendment Rules.
Resolved: The Committee was content to approve the Land Registration (Amendment) Rules subject to a positive report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules.
11. Any other business.
11.1 The Committee noted its Sessional Business Programme.
11.2 The Committee was briefed by the Principal Clerk of his proposal that the Committee should employ a senior specialist adviser on a standing basis to advise it on key financial processes. The proposal also included making the adviser available to other Assembly Committees.
Resolved: The Committee agreed that the Principal Clerk should investigate the cost of a specialist.
11.3 The Committee was briefed by the Deputy Chairman of a meeting with the Minister of Finance and Personnel regarding his comments in the Assembly about the contribution of the Finance and Personnel Committee during its scrutiny of the Review of the Senior Civil Service.
Resolved: The Committee agreed that it would consider any further response when a formal response to its letter was received from the Minister.
12. Date of next meeting.
12.1 The next meeting was agreed as Wednesday 3 July 2002 at 2.30 p.m. in the Senate Chamber.
The Chairman declared the meeting closed at 4.47. p.m.
Francie Molloy
Chairman