Northern Ireland Assembly Flax Flower Logo

COMMITTEE FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT

TUESDAY 25 MAY 2010
ROOM 135, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS, STORMONT

Present:
Mr Simon Hamilton MLA (Chairperson)
Mr Billy Armstrong MLA
Mrs Mary Bradley MLA
Mr Mickey Brady MLA
Mr Jonathan Craig MLA
Mr Alex Easton MLA
Mr Tommy Gallagher MLA
Mr David Hilditch MLA
Ms Anna Lo MLA
Mr Fra McCann MLA
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín MLA

In Attendance:
Mr Peter McCallion (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Trevor Allen (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Mr Stewart Kennedy (Clerical Supervisor)
Ms Allison Ferguson (Clerical Officer)
Ms Patricia Casey (Bill Clerk) – agenda item 4 only

Apologies:
None

The meeting began in public session at 2.03pm.

1. Apologies

No apologies were received.

2. Chairperson’s Business

None.

3. Matters Arising

None.

4. Welfare Reform Bill

The following Departmental officials joined the meeting at 2.06pm:

Ms Anne McCleary Director, Social Security Policy and Legislation Division, DSD;
Ms Margaret Sisk Assistant Director, Social Security Policy and Legislation Division, DSD; and
Mr Colm McLaughlin Social Security Policy and Legislation Division, DSD.

Mrs Mary Bradley joined the meeting at 2.07pm.
Mr Alex Easton joined the meeting at 2.08pm.
Mr David Hilditch joined the meeting at 2.11pm.
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín joined the meeting at 2.11pm.

4.1 Examiner of Statutory Rules Report on the Delegated Powers Memorandum

The Committee noted a report from the Examiner of Statutory Rules into the delegated powers of the Welfare Reform Bill.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that it would not reconsider the clauses of the Bill in light of the Examiner’s findings.

4.2 Law Centre (NI) Submission on suggested amendments

The Committee noted a submission from the Law Centre (NI) that included suggested amendments to the Welfare Reform Bill.

4.3 Clause-by-Clause Scrutiny

The Committee continued its formal clause-by-clause scrutiny of the Welfare Reform Bill.

Clause 18: Payments on account

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 18, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 19: Loss of benefit provision

As a consensus could not be reached on Clause 19 as drafted, the Committee divided on the proposal that:

“Subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 19 as drafted”.

The Committee divided: Ayes 6; Noes 3; Abstentions 1.

AYES

Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Billy Armstrong
Mrs Mary Bradley
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr Alex Easton
Mr David Hilditch

NOES

Mr Mickey Brady
Mr Fra McCann
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín

ABSTENTIONS

Ms Anna Lo

The motion was carried.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that its reservations in relation to Clause 19 in respect of the loss of benefit provision in the event of benefit fraud would be expressed in the Bill Report and during Consideration Stage of the Bill.

Clause 20: Jobseeker’s allowance: sanctions for violent conduct etc. in connection with claim

As a consensus could not be reached on Clause 20 as drafted, the Committee divided on the proposal that:

“Subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 20 as drafted”.

The Committee divided: Ayes 6; Noes 3; Abstentions 1.

AYES

Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Billy Armstrong
Mrs Mary Bradley
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr Alex Easton
Mr David Hilditch

NOES

Mr Mickey Brady
Mr Fra McCann
Ms Carál Ní Chuilín

ABSTENTIONS

Ms Anna Lo

The motion was carried.

Agreed: The Committee agreed that Members’ reservations in relation to Clause 20 in respect of sanctions for JSA claimants convicted or cautioned for behaving violently or threatening violence to benefits staff would be expressed in the Bill Report and during Consideration Stage of the Bill.

Clause 21: Repeal of sanctions 53 to 57 of the Child Support, Pensions and Social Security Act (Northern Ireland) 2000

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 21, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 22: Period for which pilot schemes have effect etc.

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 22, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 23: Exemption from jobseeker conditions for victims of domestic violence

The Committee noted assurances from the Department that the definition of domestic violence would include psychological, financial and physical issues and that the 13 week exemption period was in addition to an existing 11 week exemption.

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 23, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 24: Good cause for failure to comply with regulations etc.

The Department provided assurances that good cause provisions would extend to mental health; learning disability; child care issues and other caring responsibilities. T

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek confirmation of assurances from the Minister at Consideration Stage in respect of good cause provisions.

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 24, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 25: Jobseeker’s agreements and action plans: well being of children

The Department provided assurances that benefit advisers would consider a wide range of scenarios in assessing the well-being of the children of claimants.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek confirmation of assurances from the Minister at Consideration Stage in respect of the provisions relating to well-being of children.

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 25, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Mr Alex Easton left the meeting at 2.52pm.

Clause 26: Contracting out functions under Jobseeker (Northern Ireland) Order 1995

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment,

the Committee is content with Clause 26, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clauses 30 to 36: Minor amendments; Payments of child support maintenance; Child support maintenance: offences relating to information; Consequential amendments of orders and regulations; Repeals; Interpretation; and Commencement

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clauses 30 to 36, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 37: Short title

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 37, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Schedules 1 to 4: Amendments connected to section 4; Abolition of income support: consequential amendments; Loss of benefit provisions: further amendments; Repeals

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Schedules 1 to 4, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

The meeting was temporarily adjourned at 2.56pm.

Mrs Mary Bradley, Mr David Hilditch, Ms Anna Lo and Ms Carál Ní Chuilín left the meeting.

The meeting resumed in open session at 3.48pm.

Clause 27: Attendance in connection with jobseeker’s allowance: sanctions

As a consensus could not be reached on Clause 27 as drafted, the Committee divided on the proposal that:

“Subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 27 as drafted”.

The Committee divided: Ayes 4; Noes 2.

AYES

Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Billy Armstrong
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr Alex Easton

NOES

Mr Mickey Brady
Mr Fra McCann

The motion was carried.

Clause 28: Social security information and employment or training information

Mr David Hilditch rejoined the meeting at 4.02pm.

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 28, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Clause 29: Persons under pensionable age to take part in work-focused interviews etc.

“Question: That subject to consequential amendment, the Committee is content with Clause 29, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

Mr Tommy Gallagher joined the meeting at 4.07pm.

Additional Amendments
State Pension Credit

The Committee considered a proposal to amend the Bill to include a provision for the undertaking of a pilot scheme for the automatic payment of state pension credit.

The Committee noted assurances from the Department that in the event of a successful pilot for the automatic payment of state pension credit, a general roll-out of the scheme would extend to Northern Ireland.

Agreed: The Committee agreed to seek confirmation of assurances from the Minister at Consideration Stage in respect of the roll-out of the automatic payment of state pension credit.

Agreed: The Committee further agreed not to pursue the proposed amendment.

The Chairperson formally welcomed Mr Tommy Gallagher to the Committee and thanked Mr Thomas Burns for his contribution during his time as a Member of the Committee.

Parents with children in receipt of Disability Living Allowance (DLA)

The Committee considered a proposal to amend the Bill to include an exemption from work-related conditionality provisions for all parents with children in receipt of DLA.

The Committee noted assurances from the Department that guidance for benefits advisers would set out the safeguards for JSA claimants who were also the parents of disabled children.

Agreed: The Committee agreed not to pursue the proposed amendment.

Additional amendment in respect of well-being of children

The Committee considered a proposal from the Law Centre to amend the Bill to include a requirement for the Department to have statutory regard for the well-being of children in the discharge of all of the clauses of the Bill.

The Committee noted assurances from the Department that the well being of children would be adequately addressed in the relevant guidance and that advisers’ discretion would exceed the prescriptions proposed by the Law Centre .

Agreed: The Committee agreed not to pursue the proposed amendment.

Conclusion of clause-by-clause scrutiny

“Question: That the Committee is content with the Long Title of the Welfare Reform Bill, as drafted, put and agreed to.”

As a consensus could not be reached on the Welfare Reform Bill, as drafted, the Committee divided on the proposal that:

“Subject to the assurances requested, the Committee is content with the Welfare Reform Bill, as drafted ”.

The Committee divided: Ayes 5; Noes 2; Abstentions 1.

AYES

Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Billy Armstrong
Mr Jonathan Craig
Mr Alex Easton
Mr David Hilditch

NOES

Mr Mickey Brady
Mr Fra McCann

ABSTENTIONS

Mr Tommy Gallagher

The motion was carried.

Agreed:The Committee agreed that it was content to conclude clause-by-clause scrutiny of the Welfare Reform Bill.

The Chairperson thanked the officials for their attendance.

The officials left the meeting at 4.25pm.

5. Forward Work Programme

Agreed: The Committee agreed that it was content with the Forward Work Programme.

6. Any Other Business

None.

7. Date, time and place of next meeting

The next meeting is to be held on Thursday 27 May 2010 at 4.30pm in Centenary Room 6, Slieve Donard Hotel, Newcastle, Co Down.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 4.26pm.

Mr Simon Hamilton MLA
Chairperson, Committee for Social Development
Thursday 3 June 2010

20 May 10 / Menu