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Northern Ireland Assembly

Monday 17 June 2002 (continued)

Pregnancy/Childbirth

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6.

Dr Adamson

asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what action she has taken to support vulnerable parents through pregnancy and after childbirth.

(AQO 1572/01)

Ms de Brún:

The wants o unfendit faimlies is daelt wi indiveidual-lyke an services ettilt conform til thair speceific wants. Speceific ploys tairgetit at unfendit parents comprehends programs stellin teenagers wi bairn an Sure Start, that gies services an uphauld for yung bairns an faimlies bydin in needfu airts.

The needs of vulnerable families are dealt with on an individual basis, and services are tailored to their specific needs. Specific initiatives targeted at vulnerable parents include programmes that support pregnant teenagers and Sure Start, which provides services and support for young children and families living in areas of need.

Dr Adamson:

Guid on the Meinister for talkin in Ulster Scotch. Coud A speir at the Meinister o Halth, Social Services an Public Sauftie whitlyke guidal hir Depairtment haes setten furth on the medical traetment o ill-thrivven weimen wi bairn?

I congratulate the Minister for talking in Ulster-Scots. What guidelines has her Department issued on the medical treatment of pregnant women who are malnourished?

Ms de Brún:

A'm gey an thankryfe til the Forgaitherar for his quaisten.

The Department is developing a strategy and action plan to reduce the number of teenage pregnancies and to minimise the adverse consequences of those births to teenage mothers and their children, which includes the action that the Member has asked about.

Action will include support for mothers who wish to remain in education, the development of initiatives to facilitate flexible training and employment opportunities for young parents and other measures to ensure that teenage parents, and particularly teenage mothers, do not face the level of disadvantage that they do at present. I expect the teenage parent action plan to issue for consultation in the coming weeks.

Mr Shannon:

To my knowledge, a significant number of pregnant women present themselves to hospital each year with malnutrition. Can the Minister indicate if there has been an upward trend over the past five years?

Ms de Brún:

I do not have those figures at present. I shall respond to the Member in writing on that.

Ms McWilliams:

Given that the Minister cites Sure Start as an innovative example of practice with vulnerable parents, can she confirm what will happen to those programmes after 2003, when the funding that is currently available is predicted to run out?

Ms de Brún:

As with all projects for which there is short-term funding, the Department must consider that issue then. The Member will remember the question that arose in relation to the drugs project, for example, which was limited in action because limited finance was available. However, when that finance ran out, I found money from my budget to take forward 23 projects within my remit. I also contacted other Departments to find out whether they could do the same within their remits.

I cannot therefore guarantee what will happen. However, Sure Start is radical, cross-departmental and will improve services for children and families. I am supportive of it to the point that when, in July 2000, 15 Sure Start projects were approved for funding, I allocated funding of £1·8 million from April 2001 to allow a small number of projects to fill the gaps in some highly disadvantaged areas that had no Sure Start projects.

Hospitals: Cavan and Sligo

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7.

Mr McElduff

asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to detail any contact she has had with Minister Micheál Martin TD and the Department of Health and Children to establish the extent and nature of development proposals for hospitals in Cavan and Sligo; and to make a statement.

(AQO 1584/01)

8.

Mr Fee

asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety to outline (a) any meetings that took place with Micheál Martin TD, Minister of Health and Children, in respect of the future of acute care, (b) any actions considered in terms of North/South co-operation and (c) what impact any such discussions has had on the detail of their proposals.

(AQO 1613/01)

18.

Mr Attwood

asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety how many times she has raised the issue of acute hospital provision with Micheál Martin TD, Minister of Health and Children.

(AQO 1619/01)

19.

Mr P Doherty

asked the Minister of Health, Social Services and Public Safety what cognisance was taken of the York Health Economics Consortium's assertion that Hayes failed to consider the potential of Sligo and Cavan hospitals as a solution to the health care needs of the people of south and west Fermanagh; and to make a statement.

(AQO 1623/01)

Ms de Brún:

Le do chead, a Cheann Comhairle, freagróidh mé ceisteanna 7,8,18 agus 19 le chéile mar go mbaineann siad uilig le húsáid ospidéal sa Deisceart.

With your permission Mr Speaker, I will take questions 7, 8, 18 and 19 together as they are all concerned with the use of hospitals in the South.

Phléigh mé an t-ábhar seo le Micheál Martin TD, an tAire Sláinte agus Leanaí. Chuir mé cóip chuige fosta den pháipéar comhairliúcháin ar an bhealach chun tosaigh do ghéarsheirbhísí a foilsíodh le deireannas 'Ag Forbairt Seirbhísí Níos Fearr: Ag Nuachóiriú Otharlann agus ag Athchóiriú Struchtúr'. D'aontaíomar go mbuailfimid le chéile ar ball le plé a dhéanamh ar na hábhair seo. Bhí an t-ábhar seo faoi chaibidil ar chruinniú fosta agus bhí comhfhreagras air idir feidhmeannaigh shinsearacha mo Roinne agus na Roinne Sláinte agus Leanaí i mBaile Átha Cliath le fáil amach arbh fhéidir le hotharlanna i gCondae an Chabháin agus i gCondae Shligigh seirbhísí a chur ar fáil do othair ón Tuaisceart.

Rinne mé machnamh cúramach ar chinneadh Chuibhreannas Eacnamaíocht na Sláinte de chuid Ollscoil Eabhrac. Ba léir ó staid reatha pleanála do sheirbhísí ospidéil sa Deisceart go raibh amhras ann cé acu a bheadh na hotharlanna ábhartha sa Deisceart in ann acmhainneacht agus seirbhísí a sholáthar san fhadtréimhse a bheadh inchurtha leis na seirbhísí a sholáthraítear sna naoi n-otharlann ghéarmhíochaine sa Tuaisceart. Cuirfear cibé faisnéis a thiocfas as an chomhairliúchán san áireamh sula nglacfar na cinntí deiridh.

I have spoken with Micheál Martin TD, Minister for Health and Children, and have sent him a copy of the recently published consultation paper on the way forward for acute services, 'Developing Better Services: Modernising Hospitals and Reforming Structures'. We have agreed to meet soon to address the issues involved. The matter has also been the subject of a meeting and correspondence between senior officials in my Department and the Department of Health and Children in Dublin on the potential use of hospitals in Cavan and Sligo to provide services to patients from the North.

I also carefully considered the findings of the York Health Economics Consortium at the University of York. From the current planning stage for hospital services in the South, it was apparent that insufficient certainty exists about whether the relevant hospitals in the South will deliver, over the longer term, the capacity and services equivalent to those provided by the nine proposed acute hospitals in the North. Any information that emerges during the consultation process will be considered before final decisions are reached. On almost every occasion that I have spoken with Micheál Martin, the issues raised have touched on acute hospital provision.

Mr McElduff:

Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagra.

The Minister will appreciate that my question is prompted by a desire for a seamless provision of cross-border health and hospital services. It emanates from great community anger at the proposal to withdraw acute services from the Tyrone County Hospital in Omagh, which saved a young man's life at the weekend. A 25-year-old man who arrived at the hospital with a ruptured spleen is alive today because of the Tyrone County Hospital.

Will the Minister clarify precisely whether her proposals have, in part or in total, White Paper or Green Paper status? Is the consultation process real or meaningless? Will it finally begin to examine evidence? I raise those issues because senior officials have been publicly saying that some aspects of the proposals have White Paper status, thereby undermining any real notion of consultation.

Ms de Brún:

I agree with the Member. I also wish to see seamless provision and to ensure that people can access services as necessary. I reiterate my commitment to all-Ireland and cross-border developments. I shall explore further with my counterpart Micheál Martin how acute services on both sides of the border will contribute to the provision of a world-class health service on this island.

The present consultation is a real consultation. It will allow people to have an input. I am prepared to consider new proposals or additional information that arise from the consultation.

The Member mentioned a White Paper. The proposals on the development of hospital services are the most worked and detailed proposals from which we can move forward at the end of the consultation period. The title of the consultation paper mentions modernising structures. Work on the structures contains some relatively new aspects, which are less detailed. That is not surprising, given the ongoing review of public administration. Those aspects have Green Paper status. The paper makes it clear that some further work and consultation will be needed on structures before deciding on final configurations.

However, the section on the proposals for acute hospital services was the subject of much discussion and consultation before Executive Colleagues discussed it and before consultation was agreed. It therefore has the stronger status at this stage of firm proposals.

Mr Fee:

If people need acute hospital care, are vulnerable and in ill health, it is irrelevant on a small island such as Ireland where they go to be cured or for the necessary treatment. I welcome moves to improve the situation in Cavan and Sligo, but the population and demographics of the hinterland around Armagh, Newry, Monaghan, Dundalk and Drogheda lend themselves to much closer co-operation between the health boards and the health authorities. There is an enormous gap in provision on both sides of the border, and there is much work to be done.

(Madam Deputy Speaker [Ms Morrice] in the Chair)

Ms de Brún:

I absolutely agree that we must provide the best possible services for our whole population, and the proposals in the document are best suited to do that. I am committed to all-Ireland and cross-border developments. Members will know of the work of Co-operation and Working Together and with the North/South Regional Hospital Services Group, which is a sub-group of the North/South Ministerial Council. We wish to improve services for the local community in cancer research, in pooling health promotion, in purchasing high-technology equipment, in improving the ability of our hospitals and other services and in the out-of-hours service by GPs.

Mr Foster:

In the recent consultative document, the Minister recognised Fermanagh's isolation by apparently acknowledging the recommendation of the Hayes Report that the new hospital in the south-west be built slightly north of Enniskillen. Does she consider that it is now important to confirm such intent? That would inject confidence into the area.

Ms de Brún:

I confirm that that is the basis of my proposals. However, the consultation process is real, and I cannot pre-empt it. Decisions must be taken. After consultation, I hope to discuss the matter further with Executive Colleagues and to take final decisions in 2002.

Mrs Courtney:

Most of my questions have been answered. Nevertheless, will the Minister ensure that in future patients will be hospitalised as close to home as possible, regardless of the side of the border on which the hospital is located?

Ms de Brún:

People want the hospital services that are best for them. We should ensure that the preferred hospitals in our plans can provide services that are equivalent to those in the nine proposed acute hospitals in the North.

My proposals, which allow for clinical networking and give the basis for our community services, local hospitals and acute services to work together to offer free hospital care, will provide the best possible access to services for those who need them, centralising where necessary and decentralising where possible. I stress that that approach is the way forward.

Madam Deputy Speaker:

Order. Time is up.

3.30 pm

Finance and Personnel

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Madam Deputy Speaker:

Questions 2, 3, 8 and 13, standing in the names of Mr Attwood, Mr Byrne, Mr McGrady and Mr O'Connor, respectively, have been withdrawn and will receive written answers.

E-Government

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1.

Dr McDonnell

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline (a) any progress which has been made on introducing e-government methods and programmes in his Department over the last three years; and (b) any plans which are in place for further developments in the next three years.

(AQO 1603/01)

The Minister of Finance and Personnel (Dr Farren): In the last three years, the Department of Finance and Personnel has made good progress in laying the foundations for e-government. It has installed the infrastructure required to run electronic business systems, which includes connecting the former Department of the Environment agencies - the Land Registers of Northern Ireland, the Rate Collection Agency, the Construction Service and the accommodation and construction division - to the Department's network.

The main focus over the last three years, apart from the public service network, has been LandWeb Direct, which is a major project for the Land Registers of Northern Ireland to make the land registration service available through its web site. It will be the first service to be delivered electronically through the Government Gateway in Northern Ireland. Separately, the Department has set up a project to create a one-stop shop for European funding.

In terms of internal corporate applications, that is, the electronic delivery of services to all staff, the main platform project has been the production of an online Northern Ireland Civil Service staff directory. Across the Northern Ireland Civil Service, the Department has developed the public service network that addresses the common need for all Departments to have access to high-speed voice, video and data communications and is a key facility to support the electronic delivery of Government services. It is the primary platform to implement the delivery of joined-up applications and services.

Looking ahead, the Executive have set targets for 25% of all key services to be capable of being delivered electronically by the end of 2002 and 100% by the end of 2005. Therefore, the Department is developing an e-business strategy, on which work will be finalised shortly. The strategy has identified the enabling and other projects necessary to help meet the targets, and work will start shortly on a detailed implementation plan for the next three years.

Dr McDonnell:

The Minister may be aware of the perception that there is at best a reluctance and at worst a degree of resistance in Departments to implementing electronic methods of communication and doing business. Although he outlined targets for the availability of electronic services, what targets are there for the take-up and use of these services, and what steps are in place to monitor the progress of their use?

Dr Farren:

I said that an implementation plan covering the next three years is being prepared. The plan will include a process whereby its implementation will be regularly monitored. As for a perceived reluctance in parts of the Northern Ireland Civil Service to use the electronic means at our disposal to communicate, inform and deliver services, I am not aware of any concerted reluctance.

We must bear in mind that all change has a human dimension, because change, in the use and extension of electronic means of communication for whatever purpose, challenges existing modes of operation. In that sense, we must engage in an educational process as we introduce various aspects of e-government. I am sure that all Members will appreciate that those of us who have begun to use electronic communication at a later stage in our careers have experienced something of the difficulty, and I am sure that that will be appreciated as we introduce those means. There is a willingness to accept, develop and extend its use across the Civil Service.

Ground Rents Act (Northern Ireland) 2001

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4.

Mr Morrow

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to detail the commencement date for the Ground Rents Act (Northern Ireland) 2001.

(AQO 1590/01)

Dr Farren:

As Members know, the Ground Rents Act (Northern Ireland) 2001 provides a scheme for redemption of ground rents on residential property, thereby permitting the acquisition of the freehold title. A voluntary scheme will come into effect in the first phase next month. The second phase requires compulsory redemption of the ground rent. That phase will be introduced in late 2003 once the necessary computerisation of Land Registry services is complete.

Mr Morrow:

I thank the Minister for his detailed response. However, it is disappointing to discover that we do not yet have a commencement date 15 or 16 months after the Bill received Royal Assent.

Will the Minister tell us what costs the implementation of the Act will incur? Will he also assure the House that he will take every step to ensure that the Act will be implemented as quickly as possible? It is causing concern. Does he accept that there has been an undue delay, bearing in mind that 15 months have elapsed since the Bill received Royal Assent?

Dr Farren:

I acknowledge that there has been some delay, but the Member will appreciate that introducing the Ground Rents Act (Northern Ireland) 2001 is a complicated process that involves several separate pieces of subordinate legislation. Of those, the most important are amendments to land registration rules that provide the practical working-out of the policy. Work on those rules could start only once the primary legislation was finalised. Additionally, consultation on the draft rules was necessary before they could be brought to the Chamber. The implementation of the compulsory scheme is, therefore, scheduled for the end of 2003.

I recognise that that is not what some Members had hoped for, but it is important that we take time to learn any practical lessons that emerge from the voluntary scheme that is effectively a pilot. It is also important that we ensure that the Land Registers' new computerisation system, LandWeb, is properly implemented and capable of meeting demands. The timetable allows the compulsory scheme to be introduced alongside the introduction of compulsory first registration of existing unregistered residential property. That process has already begun.

In ascertaining how much it will cost to buy out ground rent, I have decided that the multiplier that will be used in calculating compensation payable to the rent owner will be nine times the annual ground rent. That figure was decided on with the expert advice of Valuation and Lands Agency and is an accurate reflection of current market value for the purchase of a ground rent.

Ouseley Report

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5.

Mr McCarthy

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to make a statement on the implementation of the Ouseley Report on the review of the Senior Civil Service.

(AQO 1570/01)

Dr Farren:

I refer Mr McCarthy to my statement to the Assembly on 11 June 2002.

Mr McCarthy:

I expected that short and sweet answer. I tabled my question before last week's release of the report. Will the Minister do everything in his power at Executive level to support the availability of choice for senior civil servants as regards their retirement?

Dr Farren:

The age of retirement issue, which was included in the terms of reference of the Senior Civil Service Review by my predecessor, Mr Durkan, was decoupled from the general review in order to advance the matter and reach a conclusion on it. The retirement issue affects not only the Senior Civil Service but the entire Northern Ireland Civil Service. We hope this autumn to present proposals on the age of retirement of civil servants.

Review of Rating Policy

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6.

Mr Ford

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to make a statement on the review of rating policy.

(AQO 1594/01)

11.

Mrs Courtney

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline the timing for the review of rating policy.

(AQO 1609/01)

Dr Farren:

With permission, I will take questions 6 and 11 together.

I announced the launch of the consultation stage of the review on 27 May 2002. A dedicated web site has since gone online, and three public conferences have been held. Consultation will end in mid-September, after which the responses will be assessed. A report on identified options will be made to the Executive in the autumn, and it is hoped that the legislative process will start in 2003.

Mr Ford:

The Minister indicated previously a willingness to consider major alternatives to the existing system. However, the review tends to assume that mere amendments to the existing system are sought. How does the Minister propose to give full and due consideration to any fundamental alternatives, such as local income tax in place of the regional rate?

Dr Farren:

When I made my statement on the review of the rating system I answered this question as fully as possible. Full consideration will be given to all submissions to the review, or any other review for which I am responsible. I assure Mr Ford that I will consider fully any proposal for an alternative to, or modification of, the existing system.

Mrs Courtney:

Will all options be subject to an equality impact assessment and New TSN guidelines?

Dr Farren:

All options that are identified after the responses are analysed will be subject to an equality impact assessment in line with section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, which obliges public bodies to ensure that there is equality of opportunity between persons of different religious belief, political opinion, racial group, age, marital status or sexual orientation, and so forth. New TSN guidelines will also be followed.

Mr Shannon:

What timescale is envisaged for the rating review? Many would like the review to be presented to the Assembly before the election.

3.45 pm

Dr Farren:

The consultation period will extend to the end of September. Responses will be assessed, and I anticipate that legislative proposals could be brought before the Assembly in 2003. However, we must bear in mind the time constraints. Legislation must be considered fully by the House, and if legislation is to be passed, we must ensure that the normal timescale can be observed. In that regard, we are constrained by the dissolution of the Assembly in March 2003.

The Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr Beggs):

Is the Minister concerned about the level of public engagement with this issue? Does he agree that the public would be more involved if they were aware of potential figures for an increase or decrease in rates? Will such information be made available before final decisions are made?

Dr Farren:

The consultation document gives an indication of the possible consequences of adopting certain options. Several public sessions were held. I have not been advised of the attendance at all of those, but the first session was not as well attended as we had hoped. However, the number of hits on the web site has been extraordinarily high in the short time since the review document was released.

Madam Deputy Speaker:

Mr Berry is not in his place, so we will move to the next question.

Office Accommodation

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9.

Mr Weir

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to outline any change in location for Civil Service staff based in Rathgael House in Bangor prior to the completion of the review of office accommodation; and to make a statement.

(AQO 1624/01)

Dr Farren:

The Department of Finance and Personnel's information systems unit will shortly move from Rathgael House to Rosepark House in order to improve its operational efficiency, support its service delivery and relieve acute accommodation pressures at Rathgael House. This should not be construed as pre-empting the outcome of the accommodation review, but simply as an operational matter. My Executive Colleagues were notified about the move on 7 August 2001; it is one of several moves to deal with immediate accommodation pressures.

Mr Weir:

Will the Minister confirm that the Department of Finance and Personnel has received no complaints about the neutral working environment at Rathgael House? Does he agree with the Committee for Education's submission, which states that no education staff should be moved from Rathgael House at this stage?

Dr Farren:

I have detailed the changes and moves that are under way, and no others are planned at present. The Northern Ireland Civil Service is fully aware of its obligations with regard to the neutrality of workplaces.

National Insurance

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10.

Mr Close

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel, pursuant to AQO 1384/01, to provide a breakdown, by Department, of the £30 million cost consequent upon the 1% increase in employers' National Insurance contributions.

(AQO 1581/01)

Dr Farren:

With figures rounded to the nearest £0·5 million, the breakdown of the £30 million pressure for 2003-04 referred to in my previous answer is as follows: the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety requires £14 million; the Department of Education requires £8 million; the Department for Social Development requires £2 million; the Department for Regional Development requires £1·5 million; the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development and the Department of Finance and Personnel require £1 million each; the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment and the Department of the Environment require £0·5 million each; and the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister and minor departments require £0·5 million in total.

This pressure should be viewed in the context of the additional Barnett consequentials arising from the increase in health spending in England - £2·7 billion in the five years from 2003-04 to 2007-08.

Mr Close:

At a time when the Executive are allegedly trying to do something about the high administrative costs in Northern Ireland, has the Minister made any representations to the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effect that this back-door tax will have on jobs and on the Administration in Northern Ireland?

Dr Farren:

The Member will appreciate that this action falls outside the authority of the Administration. The Member may rest assured that the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be made aware of its effect.

Comptroller and Auditor General

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12.

Mr Dallat

asked the Minister of Finance and Personnel to review the remit of the Comptroller and Auditor General with a view to extending the Audit Office's powers to include the accounts of local government authorities.

(AQO 1585/01)

Dr Farren:

The Department of Finance and Personnel initiated comprehensive consultation on audit and accountability arrangements in the public sector in Northern Ireland in September 2001. This consultation examined the role of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the audit arrangements for local authorities. I am finalising my conclusions on this work and intend to submit legislative proposals to the Assembly in an audit and accountability Bill later this year.

Mr Dallat:

I thank the Minister for his reply and his willingness to open up an ever-increasing number of public bodies receiving public funding to public scrutiny. In planning the future for local councils, does the Minister agree that consideration should be given to bringing them under the wing of the Northern Ireland Audit Office, which has done so much to open up the accounts of various bodies to public scrutiny?

Dr Farren:

I certainly do agree that all public expenditure must be open to the closest and most detailed auditing and accountability. The Member will be aware that the Executive are committed to transparency, and I trust that the planned legislation will make a significant contribution to meeting that objective. Local government and its accountability will be subject to detailed consideration in the review of public administration.

The Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee (Mr B Bell):

I welcome the Minister's statement and the assurances that he seems to be giving. When the Chancellor of the Exchequer recently announced extra money for health, he said that an auditor would be appointed to inspect the spending of this money. Does the Minister believe that a separate auditor for Northern Ireland is essential?

Dr Farren:

I take it that the suggestion is for a separate auditor for the Health Service. That matter is under consideration by the Executive.

Adjourned at 3.55 pm

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