NORTHERN IRELAND ASSEMBLY
Monday 5 November 2001 (continued)
Sir Reg Empey:
I raised the issue of Maydown Precision Engineering Ltd with Bombardier Shorts and with its representative from Montreal and I was assured that they would be doing everything possible to protect the company. However, they could not give guarantees in blood.
I got the strongest guarantee possible, and we are satisfied that the company understands the importance of Maydown. It understands the potential of the facility there for the long term, and, in fairness to Bombardier Shorts, it has stuck with Maydown and has developed skills and capacities there. I visited the plant last year to find that it has moved forward in leaps and bounds. Maydown's problem is not with its work with Bombardier Shorts; it is with the work it used to have with Molins, and the failure to get an adequate supply of parts manufacture undertaken. That is the major problem.
When a Minister is asked a question, the Department provides a briefing. The briefing for this question is exceptionally important and significant. It covers many issues that affect Mrs Courtney's constituency. With her permission, I would prefer to send her the entire briefing in writing. It deals with events over the past 12 months in the Londonderry jobcentre area. The Member might find it helpful as it covers most of the issues that she wishes to examine.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
Will the Minister make it available to all Members by placing it in the Library?
Sir Reg Empey:
Yes.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
Is that sufficient, Mrs Courtney?
Mrs Courtney:
Yes, thank you.
Mr Armstrong:
Does the Minister accept that pressure on the petrol industry has led to a loss of jobs in border areas, and has he discussed a compensation package with the Minister of Finance and Personnel so that those areas are not disadvantaged?
Sir Reg Empey:
The Member and other Colleagues have raised this issue with me several times. I am acutely aware of the numerous filling stations that have closed in the past 12 to 18 months. The First Minister and the Deputy First Minister made personal representations to the Treasury earlier this year at a meeting with the Chancellor. We have never ceased to be in correspondence with the Financial Secretary to the Treasury about the consequences. We have pointed out the losses of revenue and that this sorry saga is financing a whole structure of paramilitary organisations, which can make huge profits. We are pointing out that petrol imports to Northern Ireland have fallen by 55% over the past few years while vehicle numbers have increased by 22%. We estimate that between £100 million and £200 million per annum has been lost to the Treasury.
We therefore believe that measures must be taken to deal effectively with this matter. I acknowledge that the Treasury has increased Customs and Excise activity, but this is clearly not working adequately. I am aware of genuine cases of hardship.
The Minister of Finance and Personnel and I explored what could be done. Issues of compensation have been raised. To equalise the cost of fuel between Northern Ireland and the Republic would cost the Government of Northern Ireland £0·25 billion pounds every year. It is just not possible. However, I notice that fuel prices are down in some areas to 69·9p. I hope that those reductions continue, and that the value of the euro will rise, giving us the opportunity to rid ourselves of this scourge once and for all.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
Time is up.
Mr Tierney:
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. After the last question, did you go back to question one?
Mr Deputy Speaker:
No. It was a supplementary question.
Mr Tierney:
Was that question supplementary to Mrs Courtney's question on job losses in Derry City Council? Was question one taken? I ask because Mr Byrne has a supplementary to question one. You allowed question one, and I am asking you to allow Mr Byrne a supplementary on question one.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
Is the Minister prepared to accede to this request?
Sir Reg Empey:
I was aware that the Member for Mid Ulster was not in the Chamber when question one would have been put. He did, however, submit a supplementary on job losses in the north-west. That is how he managed, with great ingenuity, to get his question answered. I am very happy to answer any questions that Members may have.
Mr Byrne:
I welcome what the Minister has said about the difficulties suffered by petrol retailers. So many petrol stations in the counties of Derry, Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh have been closed that many legitimate petrol station owners are asking when the Assembly will deliver some meaningful help to them. Many of these own family businesses, and those who have remained open want reassurance that we are doing something on their behalf.
Sir Reg Empey:
The Member and other Colleagues from West Tyrone have made a sincere cry from the heart. I have received several deputations, as has my Colleague Mr Durkan. To our frustration, this is a reserved matter. The Assembly does not have power over excise duties. That is a matter for Westminster.
We have made representations at the very highest level. The First Minister and the Deputy First Minister went to see the Chancellor. Mr Durkan has been in touch with the Treasury, and my Department has written on numerous occasions. I have received delegations from the petrol retailers, and I have listened to the sincere and sorry stories that many have had to tell of how their livelihoods have been obliterated. The businesses that they built up over many years have disappeared before their very eyes. I sympathise with all the Members who are making representations on behalf of the petrol retailers.
However, as I have said, it is not a devolved matter. The Government must take us seriously when we point out that there is little value in having nominal excise duty limits when, in fact, the Treasury is losing money. More imagination must be shown in dealing with this matter. The smugglers who are illegally acquiring large sums of money and bleeding this industry to death are making the main gains.
If that were the responsibility of the House, I do not believe that Members would tolerate it for one moment. Sadly, it is not our responsibility. I hope that in the run-up to the next Budget, the Treasury will have listened to the representations that Mr Durkan and others have been make and will try to end this scourge.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
I have been asked to allow another supplementary question on this matter. No doubt the Member will realise that we have almost reached the end of the time allotted. Please be brief.
Mr McElduff:
Does the Minister agree that the reason that many motorists travel to Monaghan or Donegal to buy fuel is the lower price there? Does he agree that there is an argument in support of the harmonisation of fuel prices at an all-Ireland level? Many MLAs of both political traditions queue up in Emyvale and Lifford to acquire petrol and diesel.
Sir Reg Empey:
I have little doubt that the Member is not one of them. I understand that many people take advantage of the price difference. The undervaluation of the euro is an issue, but as it becomes more realistically valued the price difference will disappear.
Harmonisation can be achieved in other ways. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment has tried to impress upon the Treasury that it is losing between £100 million and £200 million a year, that there is a regional dimension to that, and that the Treasury has previously acknowledged regional issues in, for example, tax on airfares. The Treasury recognised that a specific need for air travel existed in the highlands and islands of Scotland, and therefore it reduced taxation of passengers to and from that region.
The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment is making the case that there is also a specific need here. However, there are two aspects to the matter. There is the legitimate person who drives across the border to fill up his vehicle - that is an economic decision. However, huge amounts of illegitimate activity are being spawned and are fuelling all sorts of campaigns. That cannot be tolerated. It requires action across the board and it is hoped that the Treasury will move quickly to staunch the flow of revenue and to eliminate a substantial flow of funds to those who are making that money for nefarious purposes.
The sitting was suspended at 2.57 pm.
On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Sir John Gorman] in the Chair) -
3.00 pm
Rev Dr Ian Paisley:
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
I am sure you do not need to be reminded, Dr Paisley, that points of order are addressed at the end of Question Time.
Rev Dr Ian Paisley:
The point of order will be meaningless at the end of Question Time. The House is meeting tomorrow to elect a First Minister and a Deputy First Minister. However, in every answer he gave, the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment referred to "the First Minister" and "the Deputy First Minister". I want that changed in Hansard to "the former First Minister" and "the former Deputy First Minister".
Mr Deputy Speaker:
I will take up that issue with Hansard.
Higher Education Establishments and the Private Sector (Co-operation)
1.
Mr Armstrong
asked the Minister for Employment and Learning what plans he has to increase co-operation between the higher education establishments and the private sector.
The Minister for Employment and Learning (Dr Farren):
Higher education institutions in Northern Ireland have well-established links with the private sector. The Department for Employment and Learning introduced the higher education reach-out to business and the community fund during the academic year 1999-2000 to facilitate further co-operation and develop the capability in universities to respond to business needs.
Initially, £2·2 million was made available to universities for the academic years 1999-2000 to 2002-03. This year that has been supplemented by an additional £200,000 to develop activities that have already been initiated.
Mr Armstrong:
Will the private sector take an increased role in the building of new colleges?
Dr Farren:
That question is somewhat marginal to the original question. However, if the Member has in mind the development of PFI schemes, he will be aware that the Department for Employment and Learning has been involved with the further education sector in promoting some PFI-funded schemes, for example, the Belfast Institute of Further and Higher Education and the North West Institute. Recently, the Department launched the first phases of PFI schemes for the provision of new campuses at Omagh and Dungannon.
Mrs Courtney:
I listened carefully to the Minister's response on the reach-out to business and community fund and the additional funding of £2·2 million. Has the Minister any plans to further increase co-operation between the private sector and higher education institutions?
Dr Farren:
The introduction of foundation degrees is a relevant and recent development. Foundation degrees, which are new vocationally oriented higher education qualifications, have been in operation since the beginning of the current academic year. They have been taken forward by university-led consortia involving the further education colleges and employers. The involvement of further education colleges and employers under the leadership of universities from the design and planning stage of the nature and curricula of courses is a unique feature of foundation degrees.
The role of universities in the pilots will be to influence design and development, and to quality-assure the delivery of the courses by further education colleges. Universities will award the foundation degree qualification. Employers will ensure that the programme matches current industrial needs. That will be achieved by the involvement of employers at the initial development and planning stage of specific foundation degree programmes.
Training Provision
2.
Mr McGrady
asked the Minister for Employment and Learning what steps will be taken to ensure that those recovering from mental illness and mental ill health will be provided with appropriate training for the employment market; and to make a statement.
Dr Farren:
Through its Disablement Advisory Service, my Department will continue to help people experiencing mental ill health to obtain appropriate training to help prepare them for employment. People can be referred to a range of training provisions, including further education colleges and training organisations, that provide specific services for those with mental health problems. The Department funds a number of training providers who specialise in that area.
Mr McGrady:
I thank the Minister for his reply. In light of the recent drive by the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, carried out in tandem with the World Federation for Mental Health, to dispel the stigma attached to mental illness in the workplace, does the Minister anticipate further action from his Department to encourage the rehabilitation and integration into the community of people who suffer from mental illness? Asking firms to assist a number of individuals on their workforce would help employers to understand existing problems better. Through the social inclusion fund, does the Minister anticipate further programmes, either for group funding or individual retraining?
Dr Farren:
My Department is in contact with representative organisations that are responsible for and that support people with mental health problems to ensure that we meet their training and education needs. The Department's Disablement Advisory Service is monitoring the current provision and we are always anxious to ensure that any deficiencies, gaps or further developments are identified so that all those who need that assistance will receive it. We have developed close relationships with employers.
Much of the current provision avails of funds from European sources. However, in a few years' time, there may be changes to the nature of the funding from those sources, which could affect some of the programmes currently provided for those with mental health problems. We are monitoring and anticipating changes so that, when necessary, we shall be in a position to plan for further development and, not least, the continuation of current provision.
Student Numbers
(Foundation Degree Courses)
3.
Mr Beggs
asked the Minister for Employment and Learning to detail the number of students on foundation degree courses.
Dr Farren:
A total of 68 full-time and 60 part-time students have enrolled in foundation degree courses in seven further education colleges in this academic year. Those figures are on course to be close to, if not meet, the target of 100 full-time student equivalents. That was the provision made available to the colleges participating in the scheme, which began in September 2001.
Mr Beggs:
Is there any evidence that the new foundation degree course has encouraged additional students, or has it simply encouraged an alternative to or a substitute for existing HND courses? When will the Minister initiate a review of the effectiveness of that type of new course?
Mr Farren:
The courses have just started and the details for this year's enrolment in all higher education courses are not yet available, nor will they be for some time. We shall monitor the situation. There is a two-year pilot of the foundation degree programmes - the current intake and next year's intake - which will add 100 full-time student equivalents to the numbers enrolled for this year. The evaluation will proceed when appropriate this year and, much more, during the following two years, when decisions will be made on the future development of the foundation degree provision.
Mr McMenamin:
How will the Minister evaluate the success or failure of the new foundation degrees?
Dr Farren:
Foundation degrees will be evaluated according to the extent to which they meet the needs of the economy, with respect to the disciplines in which they are provided. Foundation degrees have been targeted at areas where there are skill shortages and at what might be called leading-edge industries, such as information and communication technology, multimedia, creative multimedia, telecommunications, computer networking, computing, computing technology and web technology. The satisfaction of universities and colleges, and the employers who are involved, will be a major criterion for the evaluation of the courses. The uptake of the courses, and the impact of this provision on other higher education courses, particularly on competing qualifications such as HNDs or HNCs, are some of the criteria that will be considered when making the evaluation. We are committed to evaluating the degrees over this year's and next year's intake.
New Deal
4.
Mrs Nelis
asked the Minister for Employment and Learning to detail the number of participants who (a) have completed the New Deal training programme and (b) have obtained full time employment as a result of the programme.
Dr Farren:
Up to June 2001, 23,604 people had completed their participation in the New Deal for 18-24-year-olds and 29,145 people in the New Deal for 25 plus. Of those, 9,585 and 6,944, approximately 40% and 25% respectively, are known to have gained employment within three months of leaving the programme.
Mrs Nelis:
How does that compare with the Republic's FÁS schemes? Is the Minister satisfied that the quality and the duration of the programme assist participants to get meaningful work? Will he consider increasing the employment premium for providers - specifically for smaller, new providers - which might help more people to find employment when they have finished their training?
Dr Farren:
I am not in a position to offer detailed information on comparisons with similar provisions in the South at present. If there are programmes that are comparable to New Deal, then I will endeavour to obtain the information that the Member seeks.
We must appreciate that considerable evaluation work is being done on New Deal. One major independent report, which follows the experiences of a cohort of nearly 1,600 New Deal participants at an early stage of the programme, will be published next week. A copy of that report will be available in the Assembly Library. That evaluation found that participants generally had a positive experience of New Deal and believed that it had a beneficial effect on their chances of getting a job.
The follow-up to that report, which will detail the post-New Deal activities of that cohort, will be published in early 2002. My Department will also publish the findings of an independent qualitative evaluation of New Deal in December, and we are gratified by the information to be included in that report. Additional evaluation work continues.
3.15 pm
On the issue of employment premiums, I refer all Members to the current consultation by the task force on employability and long-term unemployment, a cross-departmental task force of which I am the chairperson. The task force is taking evidence from a range of representative organisations, including employers, trade unions, voluntary organisations, community groups and training providers.
That process involves the consideration of such issues as the possible further assistance of people, particularly the long-term unemployed, to return to work or to take up work for the first time. I hope to bring the task force's report to the attention of the House early next spring. It would be wrong of me to anticipate the recommendations of the task force. However, the employment premiums that the Member mentioned in her question are among the issues to be addressed.
Mr Shannon:
Can the Minister explain why those on the New Deal training programme are unable to apply for jobs or training through the Worktrack programme, especially if they have the necessary qualifications, expertise and the interest, as, undoubtedly, is sometimes the case?
Dr Farren:
I am not aware of the detail of the qualifications that are inhibiting people from applying for training, but if the Member provides me with it I will give him a written answer.
Ms Lewsley:
I welcome the Minister's comments on the ongoing evaluation of New Deal, a positive step by the Department. How much money has been spent on New Deal?
Dr Farren:
In 2000-01, £24·5 million was spent on New Deal for 18-to-24 year olds and for 25 plus. That includes New Deal personal adviser costs and other departmental running costs.
Employment for People
with Learning Difficulties
5.
Mr M Robinson
asked the Minister for Employment and Learning what steps is he taking to increase the participation of people with learning difficulties in all forms of employment.
Dr Farren:
The Department is keen to help those with learning difficulties to gain employment; it provides a range of support to help them. The extent of learning difficulties varies considerably, and my Department makes provision for as wide a range of needs as is practicable, including employment advice, access to appropriate training such as basic skills and specialist services, help with job placements and financial assistance.
Mr M Robinson:
I thank the Minister for his response. Could he tell us when he would expect to be in a position to further detail his Department's policy in respect of access to learning facing those with disabilities and learning difficulties as prioritised in the draft Programme for Government?
Dr Farren:
As part of the Department's policy to widen access to education and training, enhanced funding is made available to colleges, through the further education funding formula, to encourage them to attract students with disabilities and who may also have learning difficulties. That enhancement is applied through additional weightings in the recruitment and learning phases of the formula and is intended to reflect the additional costs incurred by colleges as a result of enrolling such students. The most effective way of targeting such funds is currently being assessed and reviewed.
The Chairperson of the Committee for Employment and Learning (Dr Birnie):
I ask the Minister for his assessment of the adequacy of the £2 million for disabled access, as included in the draft Budget for 2002-03, given that the Department's bid was for £3 million?
Dr Farren:
Dr Birnie will be well aware that not all bids are met to the preferred extent. Therefore, spending has to be adjusted to the level of funding available. I have highlighted, as has the Programme for Government, the need to ensure that access for the disabled to training and educational facilities is such that they can fully avail of the opportunities and that their rights to do so are in no way inhibited by difficulties of access. There is a programme of work associated with that commitment, and ensuring that we can deliver on it as quickly as possible is very much determined by the level of funding.
Mr Dallat:
Is the Minister satisfied that sufficient funds are specifically available for young people with learning difficulties? I note that there is an increase of less than 0·5% for that area in the Budget for 2002-03. Is the Minister satisfied that he has the resources to address the problem, particularly with respect to those people who have serious literacy and numeracy problems?
Dr Farren:
The Member's question relates to two provisions. As regards helping people with learning difficulties, we are endeavouring to ensure that everything possible is done to remove difficulties with respect to physical access. I indicated, in response to Mark Robinson's question, that there are forms of support and funding available so that people with disabilities can use college facilities to assist them in their study programmes.
Mr Dallat has frequently raised the issue of people who have difficulties in numeracy and literacy. He is certainly not allowing us to ignore the importance of addressing the needs of people with deficiencies in these skills. He will be aware that the Department for Employment and Learning is developing its strategic programme for literacy and numeracy. The essential skills unit of the Educational Guidance Service for Adults (EGSA) is undertaking considerable work, and I am endeavouring to ensure that an appropriate level of funding is available. As I told Dr Birnie, we do not always receive the amount that we bid for, but the Department for Employment and Learning endeavours to use the funding in as precise a way as possible to expedite the programmes that it puts in place to meet particular needs.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
Time is up for questions to the Minister for Employment and Learning.
The sitting was suspended at 3.26 pm.
On resuming (Mr Deputy Speaker [Sir John Gorman] in the Chair) -
3:30pm
Housing Allocation
1.
Mrs Nelis
asked the Minister for Social Development what assessment he has made as to whether the current system of allocating housing by points is addressing the social and medical needs of those on waiting lists for more than three years.
The Minister for Social Development (Mr Dodds):
The detailed assessment process involved in the common selection scheme is designed to ensure that all housing allocations match the needs of applicants. The scheme was introduced in November 2000, and this month, the Housing Executive intends to commence an evaluation of the impact of the scheme.
Mrs Nelis:
I am sure that the Minister is aware that there is great concern that the housing selection scheme has not dealt with the needs of this category of applicant. Will the Minister consult the Housing Executive on how the injustice should be redressed, and will the review deal with this?
Mr Dodds:
When the evaluation begins, I am sure that the Housing Executive will be keen to talk to as many people with an interest in the matter as wish to contribute. I am sure that Members will make their views on the operation of the common selection scheme known to the Housing Executive. I regularly consult the Housing Executive on various issues, and I will undoubtedly consult it on the common selection scheme and its evaluation. I encourage Members and anyone with an interest in the matter to make their views known to the Housing Executive as part of the evaluation process, which will shortly be under way.
Mr ONeill:
Now that the Minister is back, I am sure that he can make a valuable contribution to the debate on homelessness that is under way in the Housing Executive.
I am glad that the Housing Executive is about to embark on a review of the new allocation system. Can the Minister assure me that the neighbourhood points scheme included in the old system will be addressed as part of the review? Now that the scheme has been removed under the new selection system, I should like to review the evidence to assess whether the new scheme has been a disadvantage in some areas.
Mr Dodds:
I thank the Member for his question and his warm remarks about my reappointment -
Mr Kennedy:
His remarks were not warm.
Mr Dodds:
I took his remarks to be warm, although I am not sure whether they were intended in that way.
The Housing Executive will consider issues that Members or any other interested parties may wish to raise as part of the evaluation. I am aware of the issue that the Member raised, and Members from all sides of the House have made representations to me about their views on that matter. The Housing Executive will want to look at the matter, and I will also discuss that with it.
Housing Allocation (Portaferry)
2.
Mr McCarthy
asked the Minister for Social Development what steps he is taking to ensure that new homes in the Portaferry area will be allocated to families living in the area.
Mr Dodds:
My Department's director of housing wrote to the Member on 24 October 2001 about the allocation of new houses in the Portaferry area. The Housing Executive is aware of the concerns of local representatives about the origin of applicants and tenancies allocated under the selection scheme introduced in November 2000.
Mr McCarthy:
I welcome Mr Dodds back as the Minister for Social Dvelopment, and I thank his predecessor for considering matters that I raised with him. Does the Minister share local people's and representatives' concerns about allocation in the common selection scheme? They worry that it could be disruptive to an area with a good community spirit if troublemakers were allocated housing there. That was a concern when the houses were first built.
Mr Dodds:
I thank the Member for his remarks, particularly those about my predecessor - I think that that view is widely held in the House.
This is an issue that the Housing Executive will no doubt consider as part of the evaluation of a common selection scheme. Members from various sides have made their views known, and my predecessor went on the record on the matter. At the moment, houses are allocated by a system of points allocation under various headings, but, again, I encourage the Member to make representations directly to the Housing Executive when the evaluation starts.
Mr Shannon:
Has the Minister had any direct correspondence or discussions with the Northern Ireland Housing Council about points allocation? Does he know when the re-evaluation will start and end?
Mr Dodds:
I am not aware of any direct representations on that from the Northern Ireland Housing Council. However, I expect the evaluation to begin shortly, and I hope that it will be completed quickly so that we can make progress. I am tempted to say that it will perhaps be more than one week but less than 12 months, to paraphrase what another gentleman said on another issue.
Private Sector Grants Scheme
3.
Mr Armstrong
asked the Minister for Social Development to make a statement on the take-up of the private sector grants scheme, particularly in relation to deprived housing areas of Northern Ireland.
Mr Dodds:
The Housing Executive has a duty to approve a grant application when a dwelling fails to meet the statutory fitness standard or must be adapted to meet the needs of a disabled occupant, regardless of the area in which the dwelling is situated. The scope for targeting deprived areas is therefore limited, and applications for grants are not categorised in that way.
From the beginning of the financial year to the end of September, 4,891 applications were approved, of which 1,737 were for properties that failed to meet the fitness standard or required disabled adaptations. Smaller scale schemes accounted for 1,300 approvals. The number of approvals is expected to rise to about 9,000 by the end of the financial year.
Mr Armstrong:
As the Minister is aware, Mid Ulster is a relatively deprived rural area, and schemes such as the private sector grants scheme play an important part in improving the living conditions of my constituents. Will the Minister outline what future role he envisages for this scheme?
Mr Dodds:
Successive house condition surveys confirm that the private sector grants scheme plays a significant part in reducing housing unfitness. The most recent survey was carried out five years ago - it recorded housing unfitness of 7·3%. It is anticipated that the results of the next survey, which we expect at about the end of 2002 or early in 2003, will confirm a reduction in those levels.
A change has been proposed that would allow the Housing Executive more flexibility if better targeting is needed than that which is available from the present mandatory regime. A proposed discretionary scheme would help the Housing Executive to tackle social exclusion by supporting vulnerable people, improving the quality of the housing stock and by helping to ensure an adequate supply of housing to meet people's needs, particularly those living in rural areas.
Mr Fee:
Does the Minister accept that there is a serious problem with the time scale for processing applications for disability adaptations and facilities under the private sector grant scheme? One of the major problems is the pressure of work on occupational therapists and occupational therapy departments in the health and hospital trusts. Would it not be sensible to consider having dedicated occupational therapists, seconded solely to work on such applications?
Mr Dodds:
Members will be aware of the delays that have been caused by the volume of work that occupational therapists have had to undertake. That matter is beyond the responsibility of my Department; it falls within the remit of the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety. Attempts have been made to ensure that some adaptations can be made without a full occupational therapist's report, so that the work can be speeded up. When I was last a Minister, the Housing Executive and the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety worked on a review of the process.
We want to speed up the processing of applications as much as possible. If the Member has any specific applications to which he wishes to draw my attention, I should be glad to examine them.
Neighbourhood Renewal (Ballyhornan)
4.
Mr McGrady
asked the Minister for Social Development what action he is taking in respect of neighbourhood renewal for Ballyhornan, Co Down; and to make a statement.
Mr Dodds:
The Northern Ireland Housing Executive, through its rural housing strategy, has been working closely with the residents' association in Ballyhornan for the past two years to tackle the housing problems in the estate. I am aware of the difficulties in the Ballyhornan estate, many of which are unique to the estate - for example, the problems with regard to the roads and sewerage systems, which fall outside the remit of my Department.
Mr McGrady:
I thank the Minister for his understanding response. Ballyhornan is an old RAF camp that must be - Members will pardon the pun - decommissioned from a military environment to a civilian one. The problem is multidepartmental. Fifty per cent of the people living there are schoolchildren or elderly people; it is a huge social problem.
The Minister has already identified the cross-cutting nature of the problem. Roads were built, and sewerage and water pipes laid without any of the necessary planning criteria being met. In fact, no permission was required. Those systems cannot be adapted to modern standards, so Departments must get together to provide at least basic standard amenities. Would the Minister lead an interdepartmental team? I have had several meetings with the Department of the Environment's planning and housing divisions and with other Departments. There has been some good co-operation, but someone must take a lead, otherwise the plans will get nowhere.
Mr Dodds:
The Member has pursued the issue assiduously and has already spoken to me about it. He will have received - or will shortly receive - a letter from me, in which I offer the services of one of our officials to help to find a way forward on the housing issues.
I sympathise with the hon Member and his constituents and acknowledge the difficulties that they face. Such problems affect people's quality of life, but it can be difficult to organise a co-ordinated response. The Housing Executive, for which my Department has responsibility, is active in the estate already, drawing together the relevant agencies in an attempt to resolve the problems. The Housing Executive is trying to secure the co-operation of the relevant Departments and agencies.
Apart from providing £90,000 in grant aid for housing improvements, the Housing Executive is arranging for a mobile advice unit to visit the estate. That unit will promote home improvement options and will carry out a sample survey in the area to identify the issues of concern to local residents.
The Housing Executive has enlisted Groundwork Northern Ireland, together with Down District Council, to commence work with the local community group to plan environmental improvements for the area. My Department will play its part, and I am keen to see that it does, but since it is essentially a rural development matter, the Minister for Agriculture and Rural Development may wish to consider her role in co-ordinating that strategy.
Mr Deputy Speaker:
That completes questions to the Minister for Social Development.
(Madam Deputy Speaker [Ms Jane Morrice] in the Chair)
3.45 pm
Debate resumed on motion:
That this Assembly takes note of the Draft Budget announced on 25 September 2001 by the Minister of Finance and Personnel. - [The Deputy Chairperson of the Committee for Finance and Personnel (Mr Leslie).]
Rev Dr Ian Paisley:
I want to comment on some aspects of the draft Budget for the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development. The Committee welcomes the additional £2·2 million allocated for BSE testing according to new European requirements. The Committee studied the bid carefully and supports it fully as an essential measure to regain export markets for Northern Ireland beef.
However, the matter was brought to a head by a visit of a committee of inspectors from Europe. Unfortunately, the Department had not maintained the full standards, and the leeway thus lost was used as an excuse to delay the vital decision of allowing our meat into the European market. Now that the Department has decided to spend this money, I trust that it will raise standards to the European level.
It is impossible to get away with anything in Europe. If one does not do it the European way, one brings disaster on oneself. If the standards that were set by the Department had been adhered to and the Committee had not been rushed, BSE testing might have been closer to the requirements.
The Department has allocated a further £2 million for the scrapie eradication programme. To the Committee's knowledge, that was not the subject of a new bid. There was a successful bid for £2 million in the 2001-02 financial year, and this £2 million is presumably additional to that. Can the Minister confirm that in his response?
Workload pressures on animal disease control are also quoted in the draft Budget as part of an allocation of £3·4 million. The Committee agrees that disease eradication should be a departmental priority. Much of the Department's annual Budget is spent on compensation payments to farmers whose animals fall victim to disease, particularly brucellosis and bovine tuberculosis.
Although it is vital to ensure that farmers' livelihoods are protected, a concerted effort must be made to eradicate disease. Compensation is not enough; eradication schemes must also be subsidised. Therefore, the Committee expects to see positive outcomes from the Minister's reviews of the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development's disease policy.
Although it concentrates on the agrifood industry, the Committee does not ignore the plight of the fishing industry and of the rural communities dependent on that industry. The Committee notes that part of the draft Budget figure of £3·4 million is allocated to the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development
"to maintain existing service levels"
in several areas including the cod recovery plan. The Department of Agriculture and Rural Development was successful last year in securing £120,000 toward implementation costs in 2001-02. Members can only assume that this year's allocation will also go to the plan's administration and policing of fishing ground closures as part of that plan.
I want to remind Members that on 27 March 2001 the Assembly unanimously agreed a motion calling on the Minister to provide short-term financial assistance to the fishing industry to compensate for restrictions coming from the cod recovery programme. The Minister's reaction was that it was too late to act in the current year. She undertook to review the economic effects of the closures and to discuss the possibility of compensation, as permitted by Europe, with Colleagues in the other UK Fisheries Departments. However, she warned that it has not been the policy to compensate fishermen. It seems that one can take away a fisherman's right to fish and yet give him no compensation. That is intolerable. If extra funding can be found for the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development's administration of the cod recovery programme, it should also be possible to find funding to compensate fishermen for the sacrifice that they are forced to make when their fishing grounds are closed under the recovery programme.
The Committee must welcome the increase of 4·3% in the Department's budget. However, the Committee recommends, in the strongest possible terms, that the Executive allocate additional funds to the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development in support of two hard-pressed industries in the Province - farming and fisheries.
I am now taking off my hat as Chairman of the Committee and am speaking in a personal capacity. My Deputy Chairperson will be referring to the important matter of a retirement scheme. Each Committee member would be at one about that scheme.