Northern Ireland Assembly
Monday 20 November 2000 (continued)
Unemployment (Communities Differential)
3.
Mr C Murphy
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to outline the measures intended to be taken to eliminate progressively the differential in unemployment rates between the two communities.
The Deputy First Minister (Mr Mallon):
The Programme for Government explicitly recognises the importance of tackling community differentials in unemployment. That is consistent with the Good Friday Agreement, which commits us to the goal of
"progressively eliminating the differential in unemployment rates between the two communities."
Among the relevant measures in the Programme for Government are: through New Deal, lifelong learning and welfare reform programme, giving people the skills and incentives to get jobs and escape from the cycle of deprivation; the New TSN action plans, which will be reviewed annually; the establishment of a task force on employability and long-term unemployment; training programmes for adults with low numeracy and literacy skills; regeneration strategies for the most disadvantaged communities in the two major cities; and a neighbourhood regeneration task force to reduce disadvantage in the most deprived urban areas. Actions needed to tackle unemployment differentials are found throughout the Programme for Government, including under the headings of infrastructure, planning, and ensuring access to education for all.
Mr C Murphy:
I notice that the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister changed their pattern of answering questions so as to allow the Deputy First Minister to answer this one.
I welcome the Deputy First Minister's commitment to tackling the unemployment differential. If that is the case, why, in recent months, have officials and junior Ministers from the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister been engaged in an exercise to attempt to influence a report from the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) which would deny that the differential is a measure of discrimination, absolving past, current and future Administrations from any responsibility in this regard?
Can he confirm that when the junior Minister Mr Nesbitt declares that he is winning the war on equality he is not in fact eradicating inequality and discrimination but rewriting history and securing a Unionist analysis on differentials as Government policy? Does this not strengthen the case that we made some time ago for a Department of Equality with a specific scrutiny committee?
Mr Speaker:
Order. I encourage Members to be reasonably concise
The Deputy First Minister:
The policy of the Executive has not changed. I have already listed the important measures we are taking under the Programme for Government that will help to reduce the differential in Catholic and Protestant unemployment. Long-term unemployment is higher among Catholics than Protestants. Areas where there is a concentration of unemployment tend to be predominantly Catholic. Tackling long-term unemployment and unemployment black spots will help to reduce unemployment among Catholics and Protestants and should help to reduce the difference in the unemployment rates between Catholics and Protestants. It is not for me to comment on press releases issued by people in a party political capacity.
With regard to the second part of the Member's question, I understand that NISRA produced a briefing note, but it was on statistical and technical matters in relation to community differentials in unemployment. This is currently being evaluated. There are no current plans to publish this briefing note - and it is just that. There may be hundreds of briefing notes going to Ministers at any one time. This note was drafted for internal discussion, and it was concerned with statistical and technical issues. The Programme for Government states that we are committed to tackling the unemployment differential, and that remains our policy.
2.45 pm
Mr S Wilson:
Does the Deputy First Minister agree that the last question reeks of hypocrisy, considering that Sinn Féin/IRA's policy over the past 30 years has been one of economic warfare - that is their term, not mine - which has included the kidnapping and killing of businessmen, the bombing of business premises and the extortion of money from businesses? Does he agree that if the levels of deprivation which have been suggested in the Assembly today do exist, then the finger of blame should be pointed at those who have wrecked the economy for the past 30 years? Does he also agree that it is a bit odd that wreckers are now included in Northern Ireland's Government?
Mr Speaker:
Order. The Member is straying from the question.
The Deputy First Minister:
I thank the Member for his question. It is difficult to see which part of it refers to the role of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. I will take the opportunity to restate that we are serious about dealing with the issue under consideration - the unemployment differential. That is a serious matter for the Assembly and the political process. It was not for me, in response to the previous question, to refer to statements issued by others on party political notepaper for party political reasons.
I will not respond in a similar manner to the Member's question. It is not for me to make any judgement but this: there is a differential. That differential must be addressed, and the ways to address it are identified in the Programme for Government. We will not be made to deviate from that by any utterances either inside or outside the Chamber.
Mr Dallat:
I welcome the Deputy First Minister's comments. I want to press him further. How will New TSN action plans be updated and evaluated? Can he assure us that policy in respect of community differentials will remain unchanged?
The Deputy First Minister:
I will take the second part of the question first. I assure the Member that those policies will remain unchanged. With regard to the substantive part of the question, every Department has, and is now implementing, a New TSN action plan. These will be published shortly. The Executive Committee will watch closely progress on the New TSN plans across all Departments, and Ministers will provide regular progress reports. Each Department will thoroughly review its action plan every year, update it to take account of progress, and build in new targets to follow those that have been met.
We will publish a New TSN report every year to let people see what has been achieved during the year. There will be an evaluation of New TSN, with a report in 2002. That evaluation will involve external experts, and the outcome will be used to assist further thinking on New TSN.
I repeat that there is no change in policy in respect of community differentials. The draft Programme for Government makes that clear. In line with the Belfast Agreement, we are committed to the progressive elimination of community differentials. I have already outlined some measures in the draft Programme for Government which are being taken to tackle community differentials in unemployment. Finally, no one should be tempted into going off at a tangent. That is what those who want to distract us from this objective would like us to do.
Fuel Prices
4.
Mr Beggs
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if, further to the resolution passed by the Assembly on 18 September 2000 (Official Report, Vol 6, No 2, p 64), representations have been made to the Chancellor of the Exchequer regarding the impact of fuel prices on the local economy.
The Deputy First Minister:
As explained during the Assembly's debate on this matter on Monday 18 September, we have made representations to the Government about this issue. We will continue to work on this matter.
Since the debate a number of representations have been made to the Treasury about the impact of fuel prices on our local economy. Following a meeting with the Petrol Retailers' Association in October, Sir Reg Empey wrote to Mr Stephen Timms, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, and brought to his attention statistics which demostrate the huge fall in legitimate fuel deliveries in Northern Ireland over the past five years.
He reiterated his deep concern, which the First Minister and I share, about the plight of the local petrol- retailing industry and pressed again for serious consideration to be given to a reduction in the duty rate applying to Northern Ireland. The First Minister and I have also written to the Chancellor to voice our concern about the effects of the high level of fuel tax and the difficulties that that is causing in Northern Ireland. We have requested a meeting with him to discuss that.
Mr Beggs:
I welcome the Chancellor's announcement. However, does the Deputy First Minister agree that the local haulage industry continues to be disadvantaged compared with its competitors in the Irish Republic. I am thinking of the cost of derv and excise duty. Will the Deputy First Minister continue to press the Secretary of State for increased resources for Her Majesty's Customs and Excise and the RUC to help them to stop the illegal importation of fuel and the associated paramilitary racketeering? We must ensure that there is fair competition for the honest businessmen who are trying to transact legitimate business.
The Deputy First Minister:
We are aware of the difficulties faced by the haulage industry and the people of the North of Ireland generally. The 50% cut in vehicle excise duties for lorries and the additional support for the haulage industry are welcome and should go some way towards helping to reduce the severe difficulties that the haulage industry faces. The proposal to raise the threshold for the reduced rate of vehicle excise duty for cars is also welcome but is unlikely to compensate for the significant increase in fuel costs over the past couple of years. For owners of cars over 1,500 cc, there is no benefit.
Ministers continue to make representations to the Treasury on the problem of supply and sale in Northern Ireland and to press for greater action by Customs and Excise, who have responsibility for tackling that issue.
Mr Berry:
Do the First and Deputy First Ministers recognise that the differential in fuel prices is lining the pockets of Republican organisations in my area of south Armagh? The differential is damaging legitimate fuel stations in border areas, and the smuggling of fuel into Northern Ireland is forcing many such stations to close. Have the First Minister and Deputy First Minister raised the serious problem of smuggling in border areas? What do they intend to do about it?
The Deputy First Minister:
I repeat what I said in my answer to the original question. The First Minister and I are fully aware of the major decline in legitimate fuel deliveries to Northern Ireland. There has been a decline of 31% in the past two years. To a significant degree, that reflects the amount of petrol that is being smuggled.
The Treasury Minister has assured us that he takes the problem seriously. He has recently increased the resources available to tackle it, and we will continue to press him for results. Ministers will continue to make representations to the Treasury on the problems of supply and sale in Northern Ireland and to press for greater action by Customs and Excise, who have the responsibility for that problem.
The Member referred to his area of south Armagh. On the basis of my knowledge of the issue, I remind him that the cases that have been brought to date show clearly that the problem extends far beyond the border area.
Policing and Criminal Justice
(Northern Ireland Assembly)
5.
Mr Dalton
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to make a statement on the devolution of policing and criminal justice responsibilities to the Northern Ireland Assembly.
The First Minister:
The policing and justice section of the Belfast Agreement states that
"the British Government remains ready in principle, with the broad support of the political parties, and after consultation, as appropriate, with the Irish Government, in the context of ongoing implementation of the relevant recommendations" -
the recommendations of the Independent Commission on Policing for Northern Ireland and of the review of criminal justice -
"to devolve responsibility for policing and justice issues."
The criminal justice review body, whose report attracted broad support, noted that there was widespread support for devolving criminal justice functions to the Assembly and recommended that the same range of such functions should be devolved as is devolved to the Scottish Parliament.
The review of policing arrangements recommends that responsibility for policing be devolved as soon as possible, except for matters of national security. The Government, through the Secretary of State, indicated in a reply to a parliamentary question on 26 October that devolution will follow as soon as is practicable once they have paved the way
"by completing the implementation of the policing reforms and giving practical effect to the decisions made on the Criminal Justice Review".
Mr Dalton:
Does the First Minister believe that the devolution of policing and criminal justice powers to Stormont will make a difference to the attitude that the people in Northern Ireland have to the police and the justice system? Does the First Minister believe that that devolution will help tackle paramilitarism in Northern Ireland, and does he agree that it will only be dealt with when Members of the House take responsibility for policing and criminal justice and offer the right kind of political will to deal with the scourge of paramilitarism, rather than have Ministers on the mainland telling us that the normal rules of civilised society do not apply in Northern Ireland?
The First Minister:
I agree with the Member's comments - particularly his closing comments. The normal rules of civilised society do apply here, and it is our objective to see that that happens. The previous question demonstrates that there is a clear need to take responsibility for ourselves and the society in which we live. Only when we do that can we be sure that things will be done effectively.
Mr A Maginness:
I have listened carefully to the First Minister. Do he and the Deputy First Minister agree that the core element in the transfer of policing and criminal justice powers to Northern Ireland is dependent on agreement between the two political traditions that share this House? Do they also agree that that transfer can only take place in the context of the successful implementation of the criminal justice review and the Patten report?
The First Minister:
I have already stated in a previous answer that the agreement so provides and that the criminal justice review so provides. In that context I was interested to see that there was a broad level of support for the report of the criminal justice review and pleased to see that it extended throughout the community. That is a matter of considerable encouragement to us, and it should enable us, when appropriate, to proceed in that matter.
Programme for Government
(2000-01 Budget)
6.
Mr Close
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if it was considered appropriate to launch the draft Programme for Government after the announcement of the 2000-01 Budget.
The First Minister:
The Programme for Government and the 2000-01 Budget are inextricably linked and have been developed together. They have been considered together by the Executive, and the Budget was agreed in the light of the Executive's views on the Programme for Government.
As we explained in our statement of 24 October, the Programme for Government required some final drafting before we could present it to the Assembly, but we expect that to be a problem for this year only.
Mr Close:
I thank the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister for that reply and for the acknowledgement that the cart was put before the horse in this particular year, and I welcome the assurance that that will not happen in future years. Will the First Minister also assure the House that as the Programme for Government is developed - particularly in relation to the numerous public service agreements - adequate time will be given to the House, via its respective Committees, to scrutinise and advise on those issues?
The First Minister:
As we have endeavoured to say to the Member, it may appear that the cart was put before the horse, but it was not. We want to see full consultation, but there are items in the timetable that cannot move because of budgetary needs. I must say to the Committees - and this is in relation to the Programme for Government and to legislation - that there is a job to be done, and we call upon them to discharge that job. We cannot always move at the pace of the slowest member in the convoy.
Decommissioning
8.
Mr McFarland
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to detail the progress made by the Republican movement towards fulfilling the pledges it made on 6 May 2000 in respect of decommissioning.
9.
Mr Dodds
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister to detail what reports have been received from the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning on the issue of the decommissioning of illegal terrorist weaponry since the restoration of devolution on 30 May 2000.
12.
Rev Robert Coulter
asked the Office of the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister if they are aware of any indication of a re-engagement by the Provisional IRA with the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning.
The Deputy First Minister:
Mr Speaker, with your permission I will take questions 8, 9 and 12 together.
In May of this year the IRA gave a number of undertakings to facilitate the re-establishment of devolved arrangements. The IRA leadership stated first, its intention to initiate a process that would completely and verifiably put IRA arms beyond use.
3.00 pm
Secondly, it stated its intention to resume contact with the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning (IICD) and to enter into further discussions with the commission. Thirdly, as a confidence-building measure, the IRA agreed to allow some arms dumps to be inspected, on a regular basis, by third parties who were then to report directly to the IICD. There have been two arms inspections. The first took place in June, and the second in late October. In its report of 26 October 2000, the IICD concluded that it
"cannot report progress on actual decommissioning during the period following the IRA's renewal of contact in June, and the UVF and UFF's earlier acceptance of methods of decommissioning and supporting issues."
However, the IICD welcomed this report and looked forward to other such reports.
Mr McFarland:
Did the IRA not make certain promises to the Northern Ireland people to put their weapons beyond use, completely and verifiably? The people of Northern Ireland will not have faith in the process until they get an answer to the question which the Deputy First Minister himself put - are they going to do it, and when?
Mr Speaker:
The time for questions to the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister is up. Unfortunately, the Deputy First Minister will be unable to respond to that question, save in writing, as he and the First Minister will be forced to do for the remaining questions.
(Madam Deputy Speaker [Ms Morrice] in the Chair)
Regional Development
Roads Improvement: TSN Policy
1.
Mr C Murphy
asked the Minister for Regional Development if he will outline how the targeting social need policy will be applied in relation to road improvement works.
The Minister for Regional Development (Mr Campbell):
All potential major road schemes are being assessed for possible inclusion in the Department's 10-year forward planning schedule. The assessments are based on five criteria - integration, safety, economy, environment and accessibility - in accordance with the Department's Northern Ireland transport policy statement 'Moving Forward' which was published in November 1998. The process takes into consideration the objectives of the Department's new targeting social need policy, primarily under the accessibility criteria.
Mr C Murphy:
I thank the Minister for his answer, but I am concerned that if TSN is to mean anything, the imbalance of the past will have to be addressed. Road improvement schemes in many areas of the Six Counties have been neglected, particularly in my constituency of South Armagh. On some sections of the main route into the area two buses or lorries cannot pass each other without stopping. Surely that is an unacceptable state of affairs in the twenty-first century. Will the Minister assure us that TSN will be applied to address the imbalance of previous decades when road improvement schemes were completely neglected?
Mr Campbell:
The preface to the Department's New TSN action plan states
"It is generally accepted that distance from centres of economic activity contributes to increased social need. Roads Service may be able to contribute to reducing peripherality through major capital schemes. However, the impact on overall social need is influenced by a combination of factors and, therefore, the specific contribution of road schemes cannot easily be determined. The Department has consulted widely including a number of district councils on the development of an appraisals framework to prioritise programmes for capital works. New TSN principles will be incorporated in the assessment criteria. The potential for all schemes to contribute further to improving conditions in areas defined as disadvantaged is also being examined."
Mr McFarland:
Does the Minister accept that his announcement last week on major road improvements, including the Toome bypass, which is in an area of social need, has again exposed his party's "all perks and no work" attitude to ministerial office? Will he assure the Assembly, and the people of Northern Ireland, that the next major announcement by him, or his successor, will mean what it says, and will have more to do with targeting social need than party political need?
Mr Campbell:
Despite some of his comments, I thank the Member for his contribution. I remind him that we do not enjoy any of the perks of office, as our Ministers and office-holders do not avail of official salaries. Perhaps the Member has been misinformed.
A briefing for the Regional Development Committee, of which the hon Member is the Deputy Chairperson, included the need for additional provision for road maintenance, and I highlighted once again my concern to seek some level of certainty in the capital programme funding over a three-year period. The funding that we have is such that some capital schemes may have to be deferred. All these schemes were announced subject to resources being available to allow them to commence.
Each Member, including the hon Member who posed the question, received a letter from my predecessor, dated 20 July, which indicated, not once but on five separate occasions, that that was the case. Last week at the Regional Development Committee I endeavoured to ensure that the necessary funding is in place so that capital works schemes can proceed as quickly as possible.
Mr Poots:
It is interesting that the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee does not read the letters that he receives.
Can the Minister confirm that in the current year's proposals there is enough provision to start these roadworks? Can he also confirm that unless the budget is cut drastically by the Executive, there will be sufficient finance to complete these roads in years two and three?
Mr Campbell:
I can confirm that the amount that has been allocated in year one is sufficient to allow me to proceed as planned, but if funding in years two and three were to be reduced, road schemes may be unable to proceed at the pace envisaged. My predecessor and I made bids for funding that would have allowed those schemes to proceed and be implemented, but it may be the case that that is not the position.
Because of the media speculation surrounding last week's announcement at the Regional Development Committee, I am in the process of placing a number of documents in the Assembly Library for Members' information, including the roads major works construction programme, the roads major works preparation pool, the presentation given by the divisional roads manager to the Regional Development Committee in Omagh on 15 November, and the press release that accompanied that presentation. I have done that in order to be helpful and to ensure that Members are aware that we need the funding in years two and three to ensure that these road schemes proceed. That is my intention, my goal and my objective.
Drainage (West Tyrone)
2.
Mr P Doherty
asked the Minister for Regional Development if he will detail the amount spent upgrading the drainage system in West Tyrone by year for each of the last five years, and what is the amount set aside for the current financial year.
Mr Campbell:
Expenditure on drainage by my Department's Roads and Water Services in the Omagh and Strabane district council areas was as follows: in 1996-97, £932,000; in 1997-98, £977,000; in 1998-99, £1,187,000; and in 1999-2000, £1,281,000. Figures for 1995-96, the first year of the period specified, are not readily available, but I can indicate that planned expenditure in the current financial year is up - again - at £1,313,000.
Mr P Doherty:
Can the Minister give a clear undertaking that his Department will alleviate the effects of the flooding that can sometimes occur three or four times a year in Newtownstewart? Will he also give an undertaking to liaise and work with the Rivers Agency to bring about a situation where the A5 is not subject to flooding six or seven times a year?
Mr Campbell:
I am aware of a number of flooding incidents not only in West Tyrone but across Northern Ireland, and I take every incident very seriously. My Department has been looking into the flooding that occurred on 28 October in the West Tyrone area and is currently endeavouring to ensure that measures are taken to make that flooding less likely in the future.
Our efforts can be seen in the amounts I have outlined. We are spending more, year on year, on trying to improve the drainage system to minimise the effects of any extreme flooding, which Northern Ireland has unfortunately been subjected to over recent months.
Mr McMenamin:
Due to the recent lack of adequate drainage systems in my constituency of West Tyrone we have experienced severe flooding, particularly in the Ballycolman area of Strabane because of the failure of electric motors in pumping stations. The main factor contributing to the failure of these motors was that they were clogged with leaves, which tripped the circuits. Fortunately, the local Water Service - and I compliment them on their work - got the pumps back into action and thus prevented dozens of homes being flooded.
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Will the Member put the question?
Mr McMenamin:
Yes. Will the Minister assure me that his Department will check stations throughout the North of Ireland to make sure they will operate when needed? I represent a rural area, and my office constantly receives calls from residents complaining of sheughs being blocked throughout the constituency. Will funding be made available to upgrade these sheughs and small drains in rural constituencies?
Mr Campbell:
I do not wish to make light of it, but it will be interesting to see how Hansard deals with the spelling of "sheugh". I will undertake to ensure that the areas mentioned by Mr McMenamin are investigated. I am aware of the locations he mentioned, and I have instructed my officials to go back to ensure that the problem is being alleviated. I will write to him if there is any unresolved or outstanding issue in direct relation to the incident he has just referred to.
Transport Infrastructure:
Weather Damage
3.
Mr Hussey
asked the Minister for Regional Development if he will detail the damage caused to the transport infrastructure as a result of the recent inclement weather; and if he will make a statement.
Mr Campbell:
The railway network suffered some structural damage during the recent inclement weather. There was a landslip near Seahill on the Belfast to Bangor line which temporarily closed one side of the railway line. There was also flooding near Magheramorne on the Belfast to Larne line which washed away some of the track bed ballast and closed the line temporarily. Repairs at both locations have now been completed and both lines restored to full operational status.
The roads network also suffered some structural damage. Severe surface damage has occurred on the B536 (Spout Road, Strabane) and the U0233 (Old Castle Road, Newtownstewart). There was an embankment slip on the A1 (Belfast to Newry road) near Dromore. Repairs are ongoing at the two former locations, and one of the southbound lanes of the A1 has been closed pending investigations regarding the slippage. The weather has also caused surface damage, such as increasing the number of potholes, surface deterioration and blocked culverts. On many other roads across the country the Roads Service has identified more than 30 sites which require remedial drainage work to reduce flooding.
Mr Hussey:
I welcome Mr McMenamin's use of Ulster-Scots. The Minister is well aware of the inter-agency approach to the problem of flooding, particularly on roads. I am minded of the flood alleviation methodologies which are coming through from Westminster.
3.15 pm
I am sure that the Minister, like myself, hopes that funds will be consequential to that via the Barnett formula. Has he, together with the Rivers Agency, any plans to use these funds to alleviate the damage to the infrastructure, particularly on roads in the west? It is interesting that the two roads mentioned in the Minister's answer are in west Tyrone.
Mr Campbell:
I mentioned those roads, not because they are the only ones affected, but because the Member is from west Tyrone, and I had an inkling that he was referring to them. The Roads Service spends approximately £40 million a year on structural maintenance. That may seem like a considerable amount of money, but the recent Northern Ireland Audit Office report confirmed that we need to spend £80 million a year simply to maintain the existing network to a reasonable standard, not to increase or upgrade it. I take the hon Member's comments on board, and I will deliberate on how we can access additional funding in order to bridge that shortfall.
Road and Pavement Works
(Visually Disabled People)
4.
Mr McCarthy
asked the Minister for Regional Development what steps he is taking to bring construction works on roads and pavements to the attention of people with visual disability.
Mr Campbell:
It is a legal requirement that anyone carrying out roadworks, including work to footways, must have regard to the special needs of visually handicapped and disabled people. The requirement for signing at roadworks is covered by chapter 8 of the Department of Transport's traffic signs manual, which is published by the Stationery Office. Chapter 8 says that protection for visually handicapped people requires roadwork sites to be guarded on all sides accessible to pedestrians. This is not necessarily restricted to the footway side of the works, and provision may need to be made for people crossing the road. There must also be a pedestrian barrier which may be readily detected by a visually disabled person using a stick.
Mr McCarthy:
I thank the Minister for his answer, but does he not think that it might be useful if his Department were to inform the Royal National Institute for the Blind, or perhaps the local health trust, of roadworks that are about to commence, so that people with a visual impairment will not suddenly be confronted by unusual obstacles in their path? These groups could then pass this information on to the visually impaired.
Mr Campbell:
I will undertake to investigate what the present position is to see if it would be practical to do as much as possible to inform, in particular, visually handicapped people of impending roadworks that may affect the location in which they reside.
Mr Beggs:
In constructing new pavements at junction improvement programmes, will the Minister ensure that accident black spots such as Millbrook and Antiville are developed with the visually disabled in mind? Can the Minister guarantee that these improvements at Antiville and Millbrook will be allowed to proceed independently, in the interest of safety, as was assured by his predecessor?
Mr Campbell:
Obviously I had no notice from the Member of the situation at Millbrook and Antiville. I will investigate the problems, if there are any, at those locations, and I will write to him accordingly.
Mr Dallat:
Further to the issue of construction work, can the Minister tell us if there is a policy of ensuring that roadworks inconvenience motorists for the shortest possible time -
Madam Deputy Speaker:
The question relates specifically to people with visual disability.
Mr Dallat:
I will write to Rover.
Former GNR Line
5.
Mr McNamee
asked the Minister for Regional Development if he will detail the estimated cost of reinstating the Portadown/Dungannon/Omagh/Strabane/ Derry railway line for use by light and/or heavy railway stock.
Mr Campbell:
Translink has advised me that there are no details currently available on the condition of the Portadown/Dungannon/Omagh/Strabane/Londonderry railway line, which was closed in 1957. It is not possible, therefore, to give an accurate estimate of the costs for reinstating the line for use by light or heavy railway stock. A detailed study would be required to obtain such information, as well as to establish landownership issues. However, it is likely that the costs would be considerably in excess of £1 million per mile.
Mr McNamee:
I thank the Minister for his answer. We recently heard concern expressed about the condition of roads in rural areas, particularly between major towns west of the Bann and in the southern division, and the funding problems, to the extent that the Department must consider the abandonment of some lesser-used roads.
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Will the Member put a question to the Minister.
Mr McNamee:
The vast majority of people in those areas do not have reasonable access to public transport. Does the Minister foresee the reinstatement of the Portadown/Derry line as part of a long-term strategic transportation plan?
Mr Campbell:
The consolidation option contained in the railways task force report provided for the upgrading of the most heavily used lines, for the other existing lines to be kept open and for new rolling stock for the entire network. The draft budget contains resources of £19·6 million to enable the first year of the programme to implement this option. The report also pointed out that any enhancements to the network - for example, the reopening of the Portadown/Londonderry line - could appropriately be considered in the context of the regional transportation strategy. The draft strategy is due to be published next summer.
Mr Carrick:
Does the Minister agree that such a proposal would require the upgrading of Portadown railway station, which is still the hub of the North? It would be imperative for this station to be upgraded if this proposal were to go ahead.
Mr Campbell:
This debate is useful and informative. Four months ago we could not have had a debate about additional lines. At that time we faced the running down or closure of the Northern Ireland railway network. We are now contemplating consolidation and, in the context of the transportation strategy, the expansion and development of the railway line. I take the hon Member's point, and I will draw Translink's attention to the matter he raised.
Mr Kennedy:
The Armagh/Portadown line is also important. It has not been in operation since the late 1950s. Will the Minister consider costing the reopening of that line?
Madam Deputy Speaker:
That is tenuously linked to the original question. Does the Minister wish to respond?
Mr Campbell:
Tenuous as the link may be, I am very much in favour of the development of railways. In the light of comments made by Members today, I hope to receive their support in campaigning and voting for funding for the railways, so that some development can take place. I will bear in mind the hon Member's comments.
Roads: Utilities Works (Co-ordination)
6.
Mr M Murphy
asked the Minister for Regional Development what assessment he has made in relation to the recent Roads Service statistics showing an increase in the number of road openings by the utilities, and if he will detail the steps he is taking to reduce these figures through improved co-ordination.
Mr Campbell:
Utilities have a statutory right to open roads and footways for the purpose of installing and maintaining their equipment. The number of such openings has increased to some 46,000 per annum, and while my Department's Roads Service cannot prevent utilities from carrying out this work, it does endeavour as far as possible to co-ordinate their activities. A computer-based Northern Ireland street works register and notification system is now in place, enabling the Roads Service to monitor ongoing and proposed street works by utilities and to negotiate where there is a conflict in their proposals. Also, the Roads Service has recently agreed with utilities the content of a code of practice for the co-ordination of street works and works for road purposes and related matters.
Mr M Murphy:
Does the Minister agree that the long- term aim of best value is to achieve the delivery of high-quality service and to ensure that the most effective way is being used? Local needs should be reflected in providing the best value for money to servers, users and taxpayers. I am glad to hear that work is being done to bring this together. Would it not be appropriate for Departments to establish a purchasing consortium to deliver the service required, thereby reducing the number of road openings?
Mr Campbell:
I hope that the computer-based register and notification system and the code of practice will be effective. If there is a concern in the House as a whole that this may possibly not be effective, I undertake in a 12-month period to ascertain the effectiveness of these two measures and, if necessary, to look at ways in which they may be improved.
The Chairperson of the Committee for Regional Development (Mr A Maginness):
I welcome the Minister's statement in answer to Mick Murphy's question. I welcome in particular the computerisation and the code of practice. I bring to the Minister's attention the quality of reinstatement. That is quite variable throughout Northern Ireland, particularly in the urban area of Belfast, where it is very poor. There seems to be no control exercised by the Roads Service, or the Department generally, over the quality of reinstatement.
Mr Campbell:
I understand Alban Maginness's question, in view of the number, the volume and the scale of works undertaken by utilities in recent years - particularly in Belfast - and the difficulties that reinstatement has created. If the hon Member for North Belfast, (Mr Maginness) can furnish my Department with a list of areas that are particularly affected by deviation in the quality of reinstatement, I will undertake to have those examined.
Mr Hussey:
Like others, I welcome the co-ordination of road openings by the utilities. In our part of the world it seems that to get a hole in the road you first resurface it, and then you dig it up. My question follows on from Alban Maginness's. Would it not be advisable for utilities to have to pay a deposit until such time as reinstatement is carried out to the satisfaction of the Department?
Mr Campbell:
If there is a problem in finished replacement works I understand that a simple, straightforward consideration, such as the Member suggests, may be advisable. I will need to ascertain the present position and see how it can be improved. I undertake to respond to the Member in writing about that.
3.30 pm
Roads and Planning Services:
Co-operation
7.
Mr Neeson
asked the Minister for Regional Development what steps he will take to improve co-operation between the Roads Service and the Planning Service.
Mr Campbell:
I am satisfied that, generally, there is good co-operation between the Department of the Environment's Planning Service and my Department's Roads Service. However, there has been a significant increase in the number and complexity of planning applications, and a joint Roads Service/Planning Service working group has been set up to identify ways of improving procedures. This group is expected to report to the joint Roads Service/Planning Service board meeting next month, and I will then be considering the group's conclusions. Subsequently, I will inform the House of the findings.
Mr Neeson:
Is it not the policy of Roads Service to await the decision of the Planning Service before it considers the impact of individual planning applications? As the Minister is aware, he recently responded to me about a major planning application in Carrickfergus, which is delaying the creation of a substantial number of new jobs in the area.
Mr Campbell:
Part of the problem, as I have said, is the number and complexity of planning applications. For example, there has been a 17% increase in planning applications between 1996 and 1999. There has been an even larger increase in the number of major applications; they are up by 25%. That is one reason for the establishment of the working group. I am awaiting the report on the outcome of the investigations into the problems that have arisen, and I undertake to write to the hon Member once I have received that report.
Mr McMenamin:
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. In Hansard the word is spelt "sheugh".
Madam Deputy Speaker:
That was not a point of order. The time is up.
The Environment
Madam Deputy Speaker:
Question 2, standing in the name of Mr Alan McFarland, has been transferred to the Department for Regional Development and will receive a written response from that Department.
Planning Enforcement Staff
1.
Ms Hanna
asked the Minister of the Environment if he will detail the number of staff (or full-time equivalents) who have been employed within the Planning Service in the field of planning enforcement in each of the last three years, and if he will indicate how many will be involved in this field in each of the following three years.
The Minister of the Environment (Mr Foster):
The staff resource, expressed as full-time equivalents, involved in planning enforcement in each of the last three years was 16, 20 and 25 respectively. In the current year there are 20 staff in divisional planning offices who are specifically allocated for enforcement and who are working on some 2,500 live enforcement cases. The involvement of other staff in enforcement work varies according to need. On the draft Budget, the resources involved in this work in the following three years should be broadly similar to that of the current year but will obviously be related to the extent of infringements of planning control.
Ms Hanna:
Does the Planning Service intend to consider including the issue of demolition as part of the planning application in new legislation? Does the Minister agree that until that is so we need the real threat of enforcement to protect the built heritage and to encourage sustainable development?
Mr Foster:
I am aware that enforcement is a matter of concern. The issue was raised by the Environment Committee when I met with it to discuss the draft Budget and the draft Programme for Government. The Department of the Environment is taking steps to strengthen its enforcement powers in the proposed Planning (Amendment) Bill. This will address the issue of penalties imposed by the courts and the need for the courts to have regard to the financial gain from any offence. The maximum fine for non-compliance with an enforcement notice would increase, on summary conviction, from £5,000 to £20,000. It is also intended to introduce injunction powers to allow the Department to prevent any operation from continuing where an offence has been, or may be, committed.
Planning Rules: Prosecutions
3.
Mr Leslie
asked the Minister of the Environment if he will detail the number of prosecutions brought in each of the last five years against persons or companies who have proceeded with development work prior to the granting of planning permission.
Mr Foster:
It is not an offence to carry out development without first seeking planning permission. However, to do so breaches planning control, and those responsible for unauthorised development leave themselves open to possible enforcement action by the Department. Planning legislation recognises that on occasions development can take place in advance of planning permission being granted. It therefore allows for the granting of retrospective permission for buildings or works carried out without permission.
The Department does not seek to prosecute those responsible for carrying out development capable of being approved. There have been no such prosecutions in the past five years. However, there are approximately 2,500 live enforcement cases for breaches of planning controls at various stages in the enforcement process.
In the past three years there have been 30 prosecutions where fines have been imposed by the courts for breaches of conditions applied to planning approvals. As I have just said, I will be seeking to strengthen the Department's enforcement powers through a forthcoming Planning (Amendment) Bill.
Mr Leslie:
In cases where development has proceeded and planning permission has been refused, does the Minister consider that the level of fines which can be imposed constitutes a sufficient deterrent to prevent wildcat development activity?
Mr Foster:
The Department takes enforcement action when necessary. We consider that in some cases the courts do not have the powers they should have in order to impose sanctions on people who have carried out unauthorised development. Therefore, as I have said, we intend to address the issue of penalties imposed by the courts through future legislation. The maximum fine for non-compliance with an enforcement notice would increase, on summary conviction, from £5,000 to £20,000 in order to stop unauthorised development.
Mr Shannon:
Can the Minister indicate the number of prosecutions that his Department has brought against those who have been responsible either for knocking down listed buildings or redeveloping them? What action does he intend to take to change the legislation so that people who do that can be made more accountable?
Mr Foster:
We are taking steps under the proposed legislation to ensure that such development does not take place. We want as much power as possible to ensure that people comply with planning regulations. We are concerned about what is taking place and are taking what the Member has said into consideration. However, enforcement can be a lengthy and complicated process. Fines through the courts are often quite difficult to achieve and not commensurate with the effort required. The Department's preferred option generally is to seek to remedy any breach of planning control.
Mr Dallat:
Does the Minister agree that even when planning is ultimately permissible a real opportunity is lost for third parties to make constructive points on how a planning project can best serve the needs of the community?
Mr Foster:
I take the Member's point. The question of third-party appeals is currently a big issue. We are giving it serious consideration, and it is quite possible that it will eventually be brought into force. However, I cannot say exactly when.
Planning: Compensation
4.
Mr McLaughlin
asked the Minister of the Environment if he will outline why compensation issues permitted under the 1965 Act and the 1972 Order have been allowed to continue up to the present when the Department of the Environment has clearly indicated that this compensation is contradictory to a modern planning system which operates in the common interest.
Mr Foster:
I cannot answer definitively on matters which substantially pre-date devolution and for which the direct rule administration was responsible.
The Planning (Compensation, etc.) Bill was introduced at the first available opportunity following devolution and is presently before the Assembly. It contains provisions to deal effectively with the matters to which the question refers and provides a further example of devolution working better than direct rule. The Bill repeals various compensation provisions in the Land Development Values (Compensation) Act (Northern Ireland) 1965 and in the Planning (Northern Ireland) Order 1972.
It also corrects a minor drafting error in the Planning (Northern Ireland) Order 1991. In essence, the Bill will close a loophole and remove a compensation system which is being abused by those making planning applications for the purpose of attracting compensation rather than developing land. This will create a significant saving to the public purse.
Mr McLaughlin:
Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer, and I commend him for the speed with which he has dealt with the matter. I understand the particular difficulty he had, given the history involved. Does the Minister agree that this is possibly the easiest of the issues stemming from the mid-sixties Matthew report? That report gave rise to the iniquity of the underdevelopment west of the Bann, including the area which the Minister himself represents, the decision to destroy the rail link to the north- west and the decision to establish Craigavon. Would it not be appropriate for the Minister to repeal comprehensively the legislation and planning guidelines that have stemmed from the Matthew report?
Mr Foster:
The Member has been referring to a broad issue, and I cannot make an immediate response. I will therefore ensure that he receives a written reply on the matter.
Greenhouse Gases
6.
Mr McGrady
asked the Minister of the Environment if, in view of the forthcoming summit in The Hague on climate change and global warming, he will outline what steps he will take to achieve a reduction of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere; and if he will make a statement.
Mr Foster:
The United Kingdom climate change programme was published last week. I was pleased to lay it before the Assembly last Friday. Copies are available in the Business Office. The programme sets out the measures being taken by the UK Government and the devolved Administrations to achieve the 12·5% cut in greenhouse gas emissions which the UK is obliged to deliver under the Kyoto Protocol.
The programme includes a wide range of fiscal, regulatory and presentational policies which are expected to enable the UK to meet its Kyoto target. It contains a chapter on Northern Ireland, which outlines in greater detail the steps being taken to ensure that Northern Ireland makes as significant a contribution as possible to cutting greenhouse gas emissions. These relate to the efficient production and use of energy, switching to renewable sources of energy, planning, transport, waste disposal and agriculture and forestry.
Mr McGrady:
I have the advantage of the Minister's press statement of last Friday in response to a written question taken two days after my question was addressed. I know that the Minister has just recently come into this Office, in which he must address this huge problem. However, will he address the issue on the basis of concrete proposals rather than aspirations?
For instance, while 8% is the target for consumption of renewable energy electricity, what is the current provision of renewable energy electricity? He says that the planning processes are now imbued with energy- saving objectives, but there is no evidence of that. He refers to the use of willow biomass as a renewable energy source, but there has been no visible sign of any substantial contribution of this nature. Will the rapid transport system that he hopes to introduce be environmentally friendly in practice?
Mr Foster:
The Member's question is long and addresses an issue in which he is very interested. We are trying to reduce the effects of the problem. He may claim that there is a lot of rhetoric on this issue, but the process takes time.
We need to take action to adapt to the effects of climate change. This will involve detailed research aimed at identifying the key strategic priorities in areas such as water resources, flood protection, building design and infrastructure, habitats and land use planning. These will have implications for insurance, tourism, health and agriculture, which will also need to be examined.