ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 23 FEBRUARY 2010
ROOM 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Nigel Dodds
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr Declan O’Loan
In Attendance:
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Vincent Gribbin (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Miss Tara McKee (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
The meeting opened at 11.05 am in public session.
1. Apologies
Mr Danny Kennedy Mr John O’Dowd
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 18 February 2010
Members agreed the Minutes of Proceedings of the meeting held on 18 February 2010, as amended.
3. Matters arising
None.
4. Chairperson’s Business
None.
5. Correspondence
Outgoing correspondence
Members noted:
- A letter to the First Minister and deputy First Minister, regarding the paper by Mr John Larkin QC on the Office of the Attorney General.
- A letter to the Secretary of State, requesting a breakdown of the £1.328 billion to be transferred to the Department of Justice and clarity on the status of each of the seven Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding.
- A memo from the Committee Clerk to the Clerk of the Procedures Committee conveying the Committee’s decision that members of the Belfast District Policing Partnership Sub Groups should be precluded from membership of a Justice Committee.
Incoming correspondence
Members noted:
- A letter from the NIO, dated 19 February 2010, providing a breakdown of the £1.328 billion to be transferred to the Department of Justice and clarity on the status of each of the seven Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding.
- A letter from OFMDFM, dated 19 February 2010, committing to place the paper by Mr John Larkin QC on the Office of the Attorney General in the Assembly Library in approximately two weeks.
11.12 am Mr Nigel Dodds joined the meeting.
6. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
This session was recorded by Hansard.
Committee Briefing Paper 11/08/09 – Thirty-third Revision – Consideration of the Category Two List of Issues
6.1 The Chairperson declared the following interest:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Alex Attwood
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
Declan O’Loan
- Member of the Ballymena District Policing Partnership.
Ian Paisley Jnr
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board.
6.2.AIs there a need to endorse Recommendation 22 of the Committee’s original report (that the post of Attorney General should be a full time role, at least initially)?
There was further discussion on Issue A and Members considered the letter, tabled, from OFMDFM regarding the placing of Mr John Larkin QC’s paper and their response to it in the Assembly Library.
Agreed: Members agreed to continue to maintain an interest in the issue of the Attorney General until the point of the devolution of policing and justice powers, at which time such responsibility might pass to a Justice Committee.
Agreed: Members agreed to send a letter to OFMDFM noting the correspondence received on 20 February 2010; requesting that the Committee be provided with a copy of Mr Larkin’s paper and their response to it as soon as possible; informing OFMDFM of the Committee’s intention to continue its interest in this issue up to the point of devolution of policing and justice matters; and asking for information relating to the size, budget, location and staffing of any future Attorney General’s office.
6.3.CWhat should be the relationship between SOCA and the Security Services and the Minister/ Department/Assembly? (See also Category One List N - What needs to be done to ensure that attention is given to having appropriate measures in place to address issues such as the role of the security services?).
Members discussed the relationship issue in the context of the Protocol on National Security.
Agreed: Members agreed there was no consensus on the relationship issue and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
Agreed: Members agreed that there were contrasting views on the relevant Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
11.44 am Nigel Dodds left the meeting.
Agreed: Members could not reach consensus on this issue and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
6.4.DWhat needs to be done to ensure the maintenance of existing North/South policing and justice agreements, and is there a requirement for a Justice Sector of the North South Ministerial Council?
There was some discussion on Issue D in the context of the relevant Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding.
Agreed: Members could not reach consensus on the issue of a Justice Sector of the North South Ministerial Council and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
Agreed: Members agreed that there were contrasting views on the relevant Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
6.5.EWhat is the extent of the financial provisions for a department which would exercise the range of policing and justice functions? (See also Category One List Issue I - How, and when, should the financial negotiations with the NIO be conducted, and by whom? See also Category One List Issue J - Should any budget be ‘ring-fenced’?).
There was some discussion on Issue E.
Agreed: Members reaffirmed an earlier decision that its work on this issue was complete, and that the report should recommend that the policing and justice budget should be ‘ringfenced’ for 2010/11.
Agreed: Members also agreed to send a letter to the Secretary of State requesting clarity on the source of additional funding for the PSNI Part-time Reserve.
6.6.GIn the context of Recommendation 26 of the Committee’s original report, to which Department should the Public Prosecution Service be attached? (See also Category One List Issue G).
There was some discussion on New Issue G in the context of the relevant Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding and other available information.
Agreed: Members could not reach consensus on this issue and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
Agreed: Members agreed that there were contrasting views on the relevant Agreements, Concordats, Protocols and Memoranda of Understanding and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
6.7.IIn relation to Recommendation 30 of the Committee’s original report, who should undertake the advisory role in relation to the appointment of the Police Ombudsman? (See also Category One List Issue G).
There was some discussion on New Issue I.
Members noted the existing arrangements regarding the advisory role in appointing the Police Ombudsman.
Agreed: Members could not reach consensus on any variation to the existing arrangements and agreed to report to the Assembly accordingly.
7. Consideration of the draft Second Report on the Arrangements for the Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
12.03 pm The meeting went into closed session.
Members considered an initial draft of the second report on the arrangements for the devolution of policing and justice matters.
Agreed : The Committee Clerk undertook to circulate a revised draft on Wednesday 24 February 2010 which takes account of decisions taken by the Committee and suggested amendments to the text.
12.15 pm Mr Nigel Dodds rejoined the meeting.
12.26 pm Mr Declan O’Loan left the meeting.
12.30 pm Mr Ian Paisley Jnr left the meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed to include in the report the transcripts of those sessions which were recorded in private session, but not previously published on the Committee’s website.
Agreed: Members agreed to embargo the general release of the report until the commencement of the debate on the resolution calling for the transfer of policing and justice powers, which is expected to take place on Tuesday, 9 March 2010.
Agreed: Members agreed that the report should be issued to members by 5 March 2010, under embargo.
8. Any other business
None
9. Date, time and place of next meeting
The Committee agreed that the next meeting would take place on Thursday, 25 February 2010 at 11.00 am to 12.30pm, in Room 152 and in Room 144 from 2.00pm.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at1 pm.