ASSEMBLY AND EXECUTIVE REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS
TUESDAY, 2 DECEMBER 2008
Room 21, PARLIAMENT BUILDINGS
Present:
Mr Jimmy Spratt (Chairperson)
Mr Raymond McCartney (Deputy Chairperson)
Mr Alex Attwood
Mr Simon Hamilton
Mrs Carmel Hanna
Mr Danny Kennedy
Mr Nelson McCausland
Mr Alan McFarland
Mr Alex Maskey
Mr John O’Dowd
Mr Ian Paisley Jnr
In Attendance:
Mrs Nuala Dunwoody (Clerk Assistant)
Mr Stephen Graham (Assembly Clerk)
Mr Oliver Bellew (Assistant Assembly Clerk)
Ms Lynn Gray (Clerical Supervisor)
Miss Paula McManus (Clerical Officer)
Apologies:
None
The meeting opened at 11.05am in public session.
1. Apologies
There were no apologies.
2. Minutes of Proceedings of meeting held on 18 November 2008
Agreed: The Committee agreed the minutes of the meeting held on 25 November 2008.
3. Matters arising
3.1 The Committee Clerk updated Members on his ongoing discussions with Assembly Research and Library Services regarding advisory and support services on financial matters.
Agreed: Members agreed to consider a briefing paper at the next meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed that the Committee Clerk should prepare a Terms of Reference for appointing a Specialist Adviser to assist the Committee with its consideration of the financial elements of the Category Two List of Issues; and that these Terms of Reference should be considered by the Committee at its meeting on 9 December 2008.
4. Correspondence
4.1 Members noted that replies to issues raised by the First Minister and deputy First Minister, the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Office, and arising out of the meeting of the 18 th November 2008, were still outstanding.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that reminder letters should be issued.
5. Probation Board
Members noted information on the Probation Board of Northern Ireland.
6. Legal advice relating to Recommendation 28 of the Committee’s original report
Members noted that the Clerk had requested legal advice on the best way of giving effect to Recommendation 28 of the Committee’s original report.
Agreed: Members agreed to consider the legal advice at the next meeting.
7. Devolution of Policing and Justice Matters
In relation to the issue of the devolution of policing and justice matters, the Chairperson declared the following interests:
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
The Chairperson invited Members to declare their relevant interests.
Members declared the following interests:
Nelson McCausland
- Member of Belfast District Policing Partnership
Alex Maskey
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
Ian Paisley Jnr
- Member of the Northern Ireland Policing Board
Agreed: The Committee agreed to take the views of each party, in turn, on the unresolved issues in the Category One List of Issues, as represented in the Committee Briefing Paper - 11/08/09 (Second Revision).
Members then turned their attention to, and considered, the following issues on the Category 1 List.
7.1.C What would be the status of the Minister’s position in, and relationship with, the Executive Committee?
There was some discussion on Issue C.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit the issue at a future meeting.
7.1.D Would the appointment of a Minister be an interim arrangement until the next Assembly election?
There was some discussion on Issue D.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-word Issue D to read:
Would the process for the appointment of a Minister be an interim arrangement until 2012, as outlined in the letter of 18 November 2008 from the First Minister and deputy First Minister?
The Chairperson put the question:
Would the process for the appointment of a Minister be an interim arrangement until 2012, as outlined in the letter of 18 November 2008 from the First Minister and deputy First Minister?
The Committee divided, Ayes 7; Noes 3.
| Ayes | Noes |
|---|---|
| Jimmy Spratt | Alex Attwood |
| Raymond McCartney | Carmel Hanna |
| Simon Hamilton | Alan McFarland |
| Nelson McCausland | |
| Alex Maskey | |
| John O’Dowd | |
| Ian Paisley Jnr |
Agreed: Members agreed that the process for the appointment of a Minister would be an interim arrangement until 2012, as outlined in the letter of 18 November 2008 from the First Minister and deputy First Minister.
7.1.E What would be the arrangements for appointing, removing and/or replacing a Minister, and should the ‘triple lock’ within the Executive apply to decisions of the Justice Minister?
There was some discussion on Issue E.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit the removal and replacement aspects of Issue E at a future meeting.
The Chairperson put the question that:
The appointment of a Justice Minister should be by cross community vote?
The Committee divided, Ayes 7; Noes 3.
| Ayes | Noes |
|---|---|
| Jimmy Spratt | Alex Attwood |
| Raymond McCartney | Carmel Hanna |
| Simon Hamilton | Alan McFarland |
| Nelson McCausland | |
| Alex Maskey | |
| John O’Dowd | |
| Ian Paisley Jnr |
Agreed: That the appointment of a Justice Minister would be by cross community vote.
Agreed: Members requested that the Committee Clerk develop new wording for the ‘triple lock’ component of Issue E and that it then be re-located to Issue C.
7.1.G What would be the structure of the Policing and Justice Department, and what functions should be placed there and/or OFMDFM?
There was some discussion on Issue G.
Agreed: The Committee agreed that all of the organisations listed in Recommendation 23 of the Committee’s original report, should be located in the Department of Justice.
12.10pm Mr Kennedy joined the meeting.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit, at a future meeting, the question of where those organisations, listed in Recommendation 24 of the Committee’s Report, should be located.
7.1.H What arrangements need to be in place to ensure that effect is given to Recommendation 28 of the Committee’s original report that Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly should cease to be members of the Policing Board or any District Policing Partnership, at the point of devolution?
Members noted the request for legal advice on this issue.
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit Issue H on 9 December 2008.
12.12pm Mrs Hanna left the meeting .
7.1.M Is there a need for further clarity of the powers to be devolved, and, if so, should they include matters relating to the Public Processions ( Northern Ireland) Act 1989, flags and symbols and recruitment to the PSNI?
There was some discussion on Issue M.
12.17pm Mrs Hanna rejoined the meeting
Agreed: Members agreed to re-visit Issue M during its consideration of the Category Two List of Issues.
7.1.P Should the “triple lock” within the Executive apply to the decisions of a Policing and Justice Minister?
Members noted that Issue P, having been relocated to Issue E, had subsequently been relocated to Issue C.
7.1.Q Is there any requirement to seek to have any ‘excepted matters’ devolved?
There was some discussion on Issue Q.
On a proposal from Mr Attwood, that the Committee should further consider excepted matters in order to determine what further matters might be devolved:
Question put: That the Committee should further consider excepted matters in order to determine what further matters might be devolved.
The Committee divided, Ayes 5; Noes 6.
| Ayes | Noes |
|---|---|
| Raymond McCartney | Jimmy Spratt |
| Alex Attwood | Simon Hamilton |
| Carmel Hanna | Danny Kennedy |
| Alex Maskey | Nelson McCausland |
| John O’Dowd | Alan McFarland |
| Ian Paisley Jnr |
The proposal accordingly fell.
8. Any other business
Christmas Cards
Agreed: Members agreed that the Chairperson, on behalf of the Committee, should send a Christmas card to the Chairperson of the Northern Ireland Affairs Select Committee.
9. Date, time and place of next meeting
The next meeting will be held on Tuesday, 9th December 2008 at 11.00am in Room 21, Parliament Buildings.
The Chairperson adjourned the meeting at 12.22pm.